Carter: It was the night before tariffs, and all through the land, Canadians worried what fate was at hand. The leaders had warned us the headlines were dire, with duties and levies set soon to transpire. The workers lay restless awake in their beds, as visions of hardship swirled in their heads. Factories slowed, their future unclear, as whispers of layoffs rang sharp in the ear. When out from the news came a clamorous sound A tweet from the South that twisted the wound America first, a message declared Leaving a nation both shaken and scared The markets grew tense, the dollar fell low As industries braced for the oncoming blow The farmers stood silent, surveying their fields Uncertain if trade would still bring them yields then out on the lawn a red duke appeared a voice once so steady now laced with some fear my friends he called out we must stand tall but i fear the worst could befall us all he spoke of hard choices of belts pulled in tight of shelves growing bare and wallets grown light they
Carter: tax our our timber, our auto, our grain, and every Canadian will feel the strain. The people stood somber, their hopes wearing thin, as uncertainty darkened the future within. A chill filled the air, no comfort to find, a nation held hostage to deals redefined. Then
Carter: came the decree, a signature signed from the hands of a leader so cruelly inclined. Trump grinned as he spoke, His voice filled with glee Canada loses But
Corey: loses But
Carter: America's free The
Carter: factories fell silent The trucks left unfilled The workers dismissed Their pockets unfilled The shelves stood empty The streets filled with cries As winter crept in with no heat to supply The towns became hollow Their futures erased As deaths turned to ruin A nation disgraced And as dawn broke spoke forth on a country in pain. We whispered in terror, will
Carter: we rise again? That
Carter: was the night before tariffs. And
Carter: And this is you, the people. Well,
Corey: that was a real nice rendition from not, as you might have imagined, Clement Clark Moore. But in fact, that was Stephen Carter putting his drama education. Did you like that? Did you like the little drama
Carter: Did you like that? Did you like the little drama I brought? Yeah.
Corey: Yeah. And I'm Corey hogan just to finish the intro you know you don't want to miss that steven carter
Carter: the intro you know you
Carter: that steven carter yeah
Carter: yeah i
Corey: i already i already did that
Corey: that
Carter: that part
Corey: that part but yeah
Corey: yeah so
Corey: so uh you're um you're
Corey: reacting well to the tariffs then you're creating things are going well i mean
Carter: things are going well i
Carter: mean
Corey: mean
Carter: mean yeah you
Corey: yeah you
Corey: know not even the worst thing that america did today and not a great thing no
Carter: no i mean i i tried to get zielinski into it but
Carter: but it just i wasn't it wasn't getting there it was it was too hard for me and i stopped yeah
Corey: yeah it's very good yeah uh for the uninitiated this is you the people a podcast within a podcast where steven and i uh go on a bit of a tour of american issues this is a bit of a different one because of course this is a very canadian issue today too yeah
Carter: within
SPEAKER_00: within
Carter: yeah it's kind of uh you the people and the strategists you know it's a crossover episode
Corey: it's kind of
Corey: it's a crossover episode yeah that's really nice also
Carter: yeah that's really nice also what we do when we um when we don't have a host well
Corey: well i gotta say like us doing a crossover episode with ourselves is is pretty us pretty yeah i'm okay with it i
Carter: pretty yeah i'm okay with it
Carter: mean we could have if we'd found another podcast worthy of the opportunity that's
Corey: that's a great point we
Carter: we could have reached out to them yeah
Corey: yeah so you as
Corey: as always you you guide right and i i react because of course you all about the american news you love to watch the american news you're old you've got fox on all of the time i assume i'm
Carter: assume i'm always watching fox um i but i'm going to keep it really quite simple today i think that we're going to talk about two things and only two things okay um well
Corey: um i
Corey: okay um well
Carter: well i guess a third depending on how you'd classify it because it's the fallout from the second oh
Carter: oh
Corey: oh but i think today we
Carter: oh
Carter: but i think today we have to i mean first of all we have to plug the afl league uh that we've got set up you you haven't yet joined it i did i
Corey: i did i joined yesterday okay the afl
Carter: okay the afl tipping league is set up for uh those
Carter: those of us those people who follow the strategists and also know that the afl plays australian football yeah
Corey: yeah i was gonna say you're gonna you're gonna explain what afl is yeah as
Carter: gonna explain what
Carter: yeah as aussie rules football um
Carter: um uh
Carter: uh anyways it's up and running and uh we've got some really good people in it this year uh really good people uh the afl All, of course, represented by Gil McGowan, who I think is helping produce the episode.
Carter: That's probably not Gil McGowan. Is that what you're saying?
Corey: not Gil McGowan.
Corey: Maybe. Anybody can put the name Gil McGowan out there. So that's something to keep in mind. Anyone can. Identity
Carter: can put the
Carter: something to keep in mind.
Carter: Identity theft is what I say.
Corey: It's tough, right? It's tough. Anyways,
Corey: Anyways, there's lots
Carter: Anyways, there's lots of great people involved. And you
Carter: you win nothing when you win, except bragging rights. There was a number of people who beat me last year. you
Corey: There
Carter: weren't one of them no
Corey: no i was i came in last i think yeah
Carter: yeah i think you stopped i think about halfway through you went well this is fucking stupid and
Carter: and you stopped i'm
Corey: you stopped
Corey: gonna do better this year i'm gonna give up earlier i think i
Carter: i think so i think you'll give up earlier i mean that is your model um speaking
Carter: of giving up yeah well
Corey: well of course it shouldn't have but the the tariff announcement hit us like 907 kilograms of bricks today yeah
Carter: yeah right
Corey: right threw everything for a curve the The markets reacted in real time. We're going to start with that? We're going to start with Zelensky? Well,
Carter: Well, why don't you – no, no. We're starting with the tariffs for sure. We're going to move on to Zelensky. I mean what
Corey: sure. We're going to
Carter: does the broader world think of this? I mean I have this sense of Canadianism. But the broader world is interesting to me because the broader world feels like it's paying attention but doesn't want to touch this shit
Carter: show with a 10-foot pole.
Corey: Yeah, I feel like I understand it. And I don't love it as a Canadian, but I think everybody is sitting there saying, there but for the grace of God, go I. And they're trying to avoid being pulled into this Trump vortex and being the next person who gets his random capricious tariffs. But I assume, I
Carter: And they're
Corey: assume, not
Corey: not in public, but in closed doors in places like London where leaders were meeting, everybody was saying, what
SPEAKER_00: was saying,
Corey: what the fuck? Like, what the absolute fuck? like i bet you they don't even get to like saying the thing they're saying what the fuck about i bet you they just say it to everyone else and yeah you know and mccon is like bs and you know that yeah you
SPEAKER_01: bet you they just say
Carter: say it
SPEAKER_01: it
SPEAKER_01: to
Carter: to everyone else
SPEAKER_01: else
Carter: yeah you
Corey: you know this
Carter: this whole episode actually was going to be just you and i going what the fuck right
Corey: right still could be it's not too late we're only seven minutes in because
Carter: still could be it's not too late we're only seven minutes in because
Carter: because i i mean canadians are at a bit of a loss i mean i think that we're all scared i think the canadians are scared impaired but
Carter: but i i i don't
Carter: don't think we have a real sense of what the ramifications are because each of us has the uh
Carter: uh individual uh insulation
Carter: right where we're all like insulated where this isn't going to happen this isn't going to impact the me i
Carter: mean this could impact someone else but it's certainly not going to impact me i
Carter: i think that's where most canadians are right now sure but
Carter: but it's going to impact a lot of people really
Carter: quickly i think well
Corey: well yeah because companies are going to start making decisions looking forward where they're going to say this goes on for a while we need cash on hand yeah we might be able to ride it out but it's not going to be pretty maybe we need to do layoffs now let's
Corey: let's not forget corporations
Corey: corporations have been somewhat trained to over react in these moments yeah right because you don't want to and also it is just kind of modern day uh capitalism that you run a little closer to the line than you did in say 1950 like you don't have tons of inventory on hand i'm sure people have used the last month to build some of that that stock but yeah generally
Carter: yeah right because
Carter: yeah generally
Corey: generally speaking you
Corey: run it lean you run it close to the wire and that means that you're you're getting those parts a little bit later which means these things are going to affect you a little bit sooner like you don't have a bunch of uh stuff to move through here so
Corey: think canadians are going to be surprised by how much this hurts unfortunately i think that's a bit of a downer uh certainly i hope it resolves quickly certainly i hope donald trump backs down quickly. Doug Ford is out there threatening to turn off electricity. So that's kind of nice. I've appreciated Doug Ford in these moments, right? But yeah, I mean, I think that people are a little bit nervous. But I also think there's a bit of a, well, fuck you too attitude that maybe wasn't even there in the same way a month ago. I think that we were more stunned a month ago, but now it almost feels like we've had time to sit with this for a while. What are your thoughts? Well,
SPEAKER_00: i
SPEAKER_00: that's a bit
Carter: Well, I think that that comes through when you even see, like, a Mike Myers on Saturday Night Live, you know, wearing his Canada's Not For Sale t-shirt. Giving the
Corey: wearing his
Corey: Giving the elbow, you know. The elbow's up, the universal
Carter: know. The elbow's up, the universal symbol of, okay, okay,
Corey: okay, okay,
Carter: okay, now this shit's about to get real.
Carter: Yeah. And Canadians don't like being pushed around. I think we're nice people.
Carter: Well,
Carter: I mean, some of us are nice. Zane Belge, obviously not.
SPEAKER_00: Belge, obviously
Carter: But, you
SPEAKER_00: But,
Corey: But, you
Carter: know, that
Carter: happens. That happens. Once in a blue moon. One out of three Canadians.
Corey: moon. One out of three Canadians. Yeah, one
Carter: Yeah, one out of three Canadians, absolute asshole. In this case, Zane Vilge. But I think that, you
Carter: you know, it started off with the booing of the National Anthem. I'm intrigued to see where it winds up. I'm
Carter: I'm intrigued to see where it goes.
Corey: I'm intrigued to
Carter: They, you know, WestJet has reported a downturn in the number of people flying on their American destinations. Yeah.
Corey: Yeah.
Carter: Air
Corey: Canada didn't, though. They said they were anticipating it, but nothing
Carter: Canada didn't,
Corey: nothing yet. Yeah.
Carter: nothing yet.
Carter: Well, Air Canada flyers, you know, we're
Carter: a little bit better.
Carter: better.
Carter: Just a little bit better than the WestJet guys. But even the
Corey: better
Corey: than the
Carter: border crossings, it noted that there was some downturn in the border crossing. Yeah,
Corey: Yeah, I did see that.
Carter: So what
Carter: happens next, Corey? I
Corey: don't know. I mean, obviously, we've already as a country announced retaliations. retaliations it's the exact same as what trudeau was on uh primetime television that saturday a month ago yeah
Carter: yeah talking
Corey: yeah talking about right which is effectively 30 billion dollars of goods now i think 121 billion a few you know three weeks from now after some consultation period but there's also increasing hints that there's going to be quote-unquote non-tariff responses too i think that was in the in the memo that trudeau put out there today or the government did and And certainly Doug Ford has basically said, yeah, you know, hope
Corey: hope you enjoy not having electricity and, you know, looking at the various pain points that he can start poking. But we'll see, right? Definitely interesting because there's a playbook for trade wars, which is you match their tariffs because you don't want to give them an advantage, right? right? Just in its simplest terms, imagine America puts a 25% tariff on a car, and we don't. All of a sudden, it makes way more sense to build cars in America, because they can just send them to Canada, right? They're not going to deal with that tariff one day. So that's the logic of countervailing tariffs, even though tariffs are generally perceived as pretty destructive, right?
Carter: Just in
Corey: right?
Corey: That's a problem. But is this a normal trade war? Are we just going to go tit for tat? that are we going to try i mean nobody's really talking dollar for dollar now because it's such a huge thing uh but it sounds like canada is going to do a bit of an escalation on the tariffs there
Corey: or or is this going to look like something different because you know there isn't a school of thought out there that says oh fuck we can't let this guy do this and not in the sense of like righteous pride but in the we're going to train trump to just keep coming back and doing more of this stuff so we got to hit this motherfucker hard because if you give him two and a half centimeters he's gonna take 1.6 kilometers every time right yeah
SPEAKER_01: got to hit this
Carter: this
Carter: right yeah
Carter: that was good i
Carter: i thought when you said two and a half centimeters you were referring to his dick size so that
Carter: that
Corey: that was that was a little blue we didn't need that you
Carter: was a little
Carter: you we did we did we're downer episode so
Corey: we're downer
Carter: um we
Carter: we don't really know what's gonna happen
Corey: happen i mean no do
Corey: you i actually worry that canadians are underreacting today that's It's a bit of a feeling I have.
Carter: Yeah, I think that we could react more, but I think that we will react more as time moves along. One of the questions that I have for you is, if
Carter: if
Carter: if you're Pierre
Carter: Pierre Palliev, how
Carter: how are you reacting today? This is the crossover element to our strategist podcast. podcast how you know because pierre pauliev is is uh you
Corey: how are
Corey: strategist podcast.
Carter: know what what timbit trump uh according to uh karina
Carter: karina gould uh the best part of her campaign so far by
Carter: by far is timbit trump timbit
Corey: timbit trump um
Carter: um timbit trump is uh pierre pauliev how is he responding is he uh taking
Carter: taking the gloves off going after the u.s well
Corey: i i know the answer to this so i feel like you're just sort of you're setting up i am setting you up to kind of yeah
Carter: i am setting you up to kind of
Corey: yeah that's not how he's taking it you would imagine that this is an opportunity to say no america when when the chips are down canadians stand together we're not going to put up with this it's you know canadians everywhere are going to be standing up against this this is outrageous but instead we got a little bit more why
Corey: why didn't justin trudeau do something about this a month ago which i think is a crazy take and i i saw that there was a editorial in the Toronto Sun that basically took the same approach to like, are we really just gonna say, like,
Corey: are we going to treat Donald Trump like the weather? Like, are we going to say that, you know, whatever happens with him that happens, there's nothing we can do about that. And it's our job to prepare for it. Like, is that I
Corey: don't understand, like, on a certain level, somebody is doing something to us here. It's not as though we're just sitting there. And like an act of God occurred that we should have been thinking about and preparing for. That's not what's happened here well
Carter: well what pisses me off about it is it's it's about this idea that you
Carter: you know if we'd increased our border security if we'd done something about the fentanyl crisis
Corey: fentanyl crisis ask mexico how that's i look is there any evidence of that is there any evidence that you could have done something to head this up no one
Carter: crisis ask
Carter: that you could have done something to
Carter: up no one has produced any evidence that this is because of the fentanyl crisis and certainly they haven't produced any evidence that it's about some sort of rogue immigration problem of canadians crossing the border or even though you know a third party you know from third countries um crossing the border into the united states it just doesn't happen and it doesn't happen uh on the world's longest unsecured border um this is ridiculous to me but pierre
Carter: pierre palia for whatever reason has gone back and doubled down on everything and one of the things he's doubled down on is the blame trudeau it
Carter: it worked for him in the past it worked for him again i mean i was driving back from revelstoke today which is why we had
Corey: it worked for
Carter: had to postpone our little uh adventure
Carter: adventure yesterday my apologies to the subscribers
Carter: subscribers to the rest of you i don't give a fuck um
Carter: um but
Carter: but the subscribers i feel bad for yeah
Corey: yeah um
Carter: um fair
Corey: fair yeah
Carter: yeah um anyway
Carter: i was driving back and you know i still saw the requisite number of uh you
Carter: know fuck trudeau signs on the back of alberta license plate trucks um every truck that went by with with an alberta license plate practically said fuck trudeau and and maybe pierre polyev is doing the same thing that uh preston
Carter: preston manning did when uh tom flanagan ran his campaign and and and brought him back to the basics of the west wants in you know like sometimes your stuff is so good you're so gold you don't even recognize when it's no longer working you just move right back to it all the time yeah
Corey: yeah and this is the thing that i mean even if you decided that now's the time to be partisan right we've got to be partisan now this is the time yeah
Carter: this is the
Carter: yeah
Carter: yeah why are you pointing your
Corey: your guns at trudeau he's not here like once again like you're you're you're
Corey: not seeing it's not even where the puck is going running
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Corey: Trudeau's resigned. He's given in his resignation. This is going to to be over and it's march 3rd this is one week from now the liberals will have a new leader like this is not even like a long lead strategy if you happen to be pierre poliev and
Carter: and the does anybody ever does even anybody even think that the by-election that he called today is going to happen in in april like
Carter: like that's going to become the longest election campaign because
SPEAKER_00: that's going to become
Carter: because it's just going to continue on and on and on because of the uh the
Carter: the the imminent election call yeah
Corey: yeah i
Carter: i mean this This is
Carter: ridiculous to me.
Corey: Stephen, are you soft launching the Carney general election call today? Just I'm curious. Is that what's happening? No, I think
Carter: what's happening? No, I think that Carney launched that when he said he's open to a early election call. Okay.
Corey: Just
Carter: Just
Corey: Just checking.
Carter: checking. Right. All
Corey: All right. Just checking. Just checking. You know,
Carter: You know, a guy soft launches a leadership campaign on a podcast one time.
Carter: One time. To
Carter: To be fair,
Corey: fair,
Corey: fair, one
Corey: time more than like anybody else I've ever met.
Carter: Yeah. I mean, how many of them have run so many campaigns though?
Corey: that's true i mean of all the campaigns i've
Carter: i mean of all the campaigns i've ever run i've only soft launched one can
Corey: can i tell you my favorite part about that so this actually happened for anybody who's like not initiated or maybe just sort of joined this show already in progress haven't listened to our rich back catalog of thousands of episodes i think i think 4,011 as of last something like that
Carter: something like that yeah yeah uh
Corey: yeah uh
Corey: we recorded the episode you did soft launch uh leadership campaign you said oh this campaign's gonna a launch. And you went out, you said this on the podcast, and we just recorded and we moved on with our lives. And we knew this was happening for a while, Zane and I, and I don't think either of us clocked in the moment that
Corey: that you just launched a campaign. And then I was going to a restaurant, I remember because I remember like being in the waiting area and my phone, I get a text and it's a text from this guy, a friend of mine, let's call him El Arab. Actually, that might be a little bit bit too obvious let's call him lou a and so lou a reaches out to me and he says did steven carter just fucking soft launch this campaign uh like on the podcast and i sat and i thought yeah i guess he did i guess it's out there now and
Corey: you know what it
Corey: it was kind of it was kind of validating in the sense that then the news wrote about it like it was like oh we're breaking news but uh that happened that's a real thing that happened and maybe maybe it's happening now too that's all all i'm saying people maybe you should write articles about that political
Carter: it was like
Carter: happened that's
Corey: strategist stephen carter thank you very much thank
Carter: thank you very much thank
Carter: thank you very much i
Carter: mean does i mean i mean no
Carter: i did not soft launch a campaign i'm not taking i'm not taking the eat on that this time okay
Corey: okay i
Carter: i did the i did the sandra jansen campaign yeah
Corey: yeah that was
Carter: yeah
Carter: that
Carter: was my that
Corey: that was on me you're bad that was my
Carter: that was my dad i feel bad i apologize here we go let's make things better okay
Corey: okay good
Corey: good what
Carter: what what do you think doug ford's going to do do you think doug ford's actually going to uh like if you're his political advisor yeah
Corey: yeah and
Carter: yeah
Carter: and as zane would say you're in the room what
Carter: do you uh what
Corey: do
Carter: what advice are you giving about about the electricity thing have you threatened it so much now that you have to follow through i
Corey: think you do so here's the thing about electricity i'm not actually sure well let's just put this way i doubt that lights are going to start going off across the northeast if he does this right it's going to be different than that it's going to create immense pressure on the system there might be people needing to talk to industrial clients and saying you've got to use a little bit less electricity but i don't think you're going to get to rolling brownouts because there's excess capacity in the system unless we happen to be in a situation where say a bunch of coal plants are in turnaround or something i don't even know if it's called turnaround in the context of like the power sector right but but if there's a situation where they're just offline maybe and And maybe that's the moment that's there, but I actually, I don't know that it's going to cause that, that otherwise. So, um, I,
Carter: but
SPEAKER_01: but but
Corey: if I were him would be very careful about using that. And I would pick my moment to create maximum anxiety. I'm not sure I would drop it tomorrow and then have people two days later be like, Oh, did you hear this happen? Like, I didn't even notice Kevin's not giving us electricity anymore. Right. That
Carter: electricity anymore.
Corey: That would be a bit of the risk. So I actually think that particular action
Corey: action is in my opinion, welcome. It's a good non-tariff response, but I I think the threat of it and the anxiety it creates is more valuable than the actual situation it creates, which, again, don't misunderstand me. It's going to be annoying for a lot of people, but you want everyday New Yorkers saying, oh, fuck, what's going to happen when this guy turns off the power? You know, that's more what you've got to be shooting for there. And
Carter: And do you think there's any blowback then on Trump? I mean, bringing this back full circle to the American side, you know, you've got these actions, reactions. actions. You
Corey: know, you've
Carter: know, I was watching an interview today, where an economist was saying this is going to cost American households $200 more per month, right? And that doesn't sound like a lot of money to us, because we've got the subscribers and the Patreon.
Corey: Strategistpatreon.com if you want to, if you want to join, if you want to, if you want to throw up
Carter: want to, if
Carter: if you want to, if you want to throw up your six bucks to keep us in the the high life um
Carter: um but the 200
Carter: bucks to a lot of people's real money uh it's real money to most people per month um not cory hogan money but you know zane for example would notice zane
Corey: zane would notice for sure yeah not like he ever
Carter: yeah not like he ever cashes our checks but if he i
Corey: i mean if he cared about money or thought about it i think he would notice he
Carter: mean if he cared
Carter: think he would notice he would definitely notice so the question is what are we you know what's is is there going to be enough blowback on this particular issue uh
Carter: uh because Because Trump did promise to end the inflation.
Carter: And he's essentially bringing in one of the most inflationary policies that a president can create.
Corey: he's essentially
Corey: Well, and he's even saying now, oh, this could cause short-term pain, but it's for long-term gain. Like his language is entirely changed on this, right?
Carter: this, right?
Corey: I do think, though,
Corey: we can't think about this issue outside of the context we're in. And, I mean, maybe this is a little bit too philosophical, too big for you, the people, where we're really about dick jokes, mostly. we really
Carter: we really are but
Corey: but two and a half
Carter: half inches or
Carter: or
Corey: or
Carter: or
Corey: or
Carter: or
Corey: or centimeters see what i'm saying two and a half centimeters come on i'm so close yeah
Carter: i'm so close
Carter: yeah yeah
Corey: yeah okay
Corey: i'm gonna not respond to the i blew that part you know i'm just gonna move forward you
Corey: know i
Corey: gotta i
Corey: gotta tell you the we
Corey: are living in a world where nobody seemed not nobody that's an exaggeration increasingly
Corey: increasingly people do not have the capacity to ever admit they were wrong right like it like they're just afraid of the ego death they've all become intellectual cowards this idea that i can never be like children really i can never be wrong i've got to create this excuse this fiction where i was always right if you get me on point a i'm going to weasel to point b if you get me on point b i'm going to weasel to point c i will never change my fucking mind and you know i think i'd like to imagine at least there was a time where that was really looked down upon you know serious people looked at that and said jesus christ get your act together here right there
Carter: serious people
Corey: are no people saying that anymore there There are no serious people, it seems, left. And my fear is this is going to happen. People's lives are going to get worse. And people are going to blame the Democrats. Like, it just feels like there's just not a willingness to accept cause and effect anymore. It's more, it's become way too sports team and way too childish. And I don't mean that in the name-calling sense. I mean that in the, like,
Corey: how weak do you have to be as a person? intellectually weak to never be able to say fucked
Corey: that one up right maybe i better change my opinion to move forward but unfortunately i think there's a lot of weak people right now like really weak people yeah
Carter: i think that there is i think that this is the real challenge for um
Carter: um politics
Carter: in the future you know i mean one of the things that you and i have marveled about you and i've been gone to dc together we've we've we have we've gone to conferences we roam the
Corey: we roam the streets of america own together yeah
Carter: america own together yeah
Carter: yeah on on segues um we
Carter: we
Corey: we did yeah that's good um
Carter: um we we've done these things and partly because
Carter: because the center
Carter: of the democratic world for
Carter: for the long for a very long time lived in in washington dc sure
Corey: sure the united states more broadly absolutely right
Carter: right and and is
Carter: is it possible that we're seeing a
Carter: shaping of the democratic world through
Carter: the politics of the last 12 years that
Carter: makes
Carter: it more and more difficult i mean
Carter: mean maybe it's more than 12 years but we
Carter: grew up in the era of watching ralph klein take responsibility for his errors right we remember politicians who said you know what that was the wrong play and i'm sorry and i'll fix it right
Carter: and now that that idea of saying i'm sorry i was wrong um
Carter: i
Carter: feel like you'd almost be laughed out of the room if you were talking about it in a political context well
Corey: yeah and because who's ever gonna give you any kind of negative consequence for being wrong just move on to the next thing just flick
Corey: that switch and go right that seems to be the the feeling here everybody is out there um you know trying to get their 453 grams of flesh from the other person and nobody cares what their side is doing and that's um that's
SPEAKER_01: seems to
Corey: no way to have a democracy right like i i know this is trite and i know this is almost cliche to have this but it's a point worth saying like this only fucking works if we take it seriously right democracy does not work if we don't take it seriously yeah and by the way that means holding your side to account too if you're listening and you're sitting there as kind of a smug progressive sometimes
Carter: yeah and
Corey: your side fucks up you just have to own it and if you want to be a rational independent thinking human instead of a cult member you've got to be willing to call them on it and you've got to be willing to hold them to account on it that is how democracy works that's how democracy has worked otherwise you don't have a democracy you just have essentially like a quick tally and then you have this this kind of majoritarian rule and that's just not what this is supposed to be well
Carter: well and yet and your actarian rule is is is is sweeping across the land um you know the the
Corey: and your actarian
Carter: world is a difficult place because americans seem to have forgotten how to lead the democratic world well
Carter: yeah
Corey: yeah and you know what i
Corey: am baffled at canadians not getting getting ready for this. You
Corey: know, 2016 on, we probably should have been doing more to distance ourselves from this bloating carcass of a nation.
Carter: But it's
Corey: it's not just us. Like, what in a way, like, what the fuck has Europe been doing? You know, it's all of us. Like, how have we not adjusted or adapted or thought about these things before this moment? Like, there's been a lot of wishful thinking that's occurred across the Western world. Like, oh, it'll be okay. We'll figure it out. It won't be so bad. It wasn't so bad last time. And all Donald Trump really is doing right now is is exactly what he said he would be doing. Exactly. Which is part of what concerns me because the list of things he said he's going to do also includes things like Greenland and Panama and using economic force to try to take over my country, your country.
Carter: Exactly.
Corey: Canada, by the way. Oh, Canada. Yeah, yeah. Jesus.
Carter: Oh, Canada. Yeah, yeah. Jesus. I've
SPEAKER_00: I've
Carter: I've zoned
Carter: zoned a bit. Zoned a bit. I thought, you know, is it time to ask a question?
Corey: Well, he's not going to succeed. We're not there. We're not interested. Is he not going to succeed? No, Canadians wouldn't touch that idea with a three meter pole. Like it's not going to happen. But he
Corey: could do a lot of pain and do a lot of damage along the way here as he attempts to make this happen. That's the risk. The risk is his delusion takes him down this road where he hurts people.
Carter: Yeah, I mean,
Corey: mean, that's a downer. so
Carter: so hurts
Carter: hurts people is a great segue if
Carter: you're one of the people in ukraine yeah
Corey: you've
Carter: just been hurt
Carter: you've been hurt substantially the
Carter: the uh president
Carter: president of ukraine
Carter: zelensky
Carter: vladimir vladimir yeah
Corey: vladimir i think would be i don't know vladimir
Carter: vladimir i'm
Corey: i'm not gonna pretend i know how to pronounce it perfectly you
Carter: you know i could probably go with your your
Carter: your pronunciation it would sound okay pretty pretty solid comes
Carter: comes
Carter: comes to the united states as he does as he does uh in his in his uniform going
Corey: going around thanking americans thanking
Carter: thanking well thank
Corey: thank you he didn't say thank
Carter: you he didn't say thank you cory he
Carter: he didn't say thank you you
Corey: you
Corey: you must have seen some of these super cuts of every time he said thank you like just like a cavalcade of things he didn't
Carter: he didn't say thank you cory he didn't say thank you okay
Corey: you
Corey: you know what it was annoying when he did it it's also annoying when you did it i'm just throwing
Carter: i'm just throwing it out there that is annoying but this is this is the uh you
Carter: there's a grand tradition of ronald reagan yeah
Corey: yeah and
Carter: and ronald reagan really stood i
Carter: think for two things okay
Corey: okay sex with nancy reagan and no
Carter: no three things then three
Carter: three things sex with nancy reagan okay
Corey: okay he
Carter: he also got
Carter: that it's good it
Carter: took me a little bit it's
Carter: it's
Carter: it's
Carter: it's okay
Carter: okay um
Corey: um
Carter: um
Carter: um destroying
Carter: russia or the ussr yeah
Corey: yeah at that
Carter: that time you know watching out for the great communism i
Corey: know watching out for the great communism i think more broadly yeah yeah
Carter: yeah watching
Carter: watching out for uh that great dictatorship uh
Carter: uh believing in democracy furthering democracy so
Carter: so far as going you know creating the scandal yeah
Corey: so far
Corey: scandal yeah
Corey: yeah um
Carter: um democracy democracy democracy sure
Corey: sure and
Carter: and he opposed
Carter: opposed tariffs yeah
Corey: he was really really not very keen on them was he hated
Carter: hated tariffs tariffs
Carter: tariffs were the worst thing that could possibly happen and now the same party as uh as ronald reagan is bringing in tariffs and is uh cozying up to uh vladimir
Carter: vladimir putin
Carter: in an uncomfortable fashion can
Carter: i a
Carter: a
Corey: note for you here i
Corey: i don't i don't want you to feel like uh an ancient near-death sack of old but but the way you're talking about reagan you
Corey: know i
Corey: i want you to imagine you're sitting there in 1985 with your flock of seagulls haircut first
Carter: first of all never had a flock of seagulls haircut can't
Carter: can't imagine why yeah
Corey: yeah okay well imagine that you're sitting there thinking about how cool you'd look with your flock of seagulls haircut if you had the guts to put one on your head yeah
Carter: yeah uh
Corey: uh and somebody came up and started talking about the democrats doing something that fdr would be so mad about could Could you imagine if FDR saw these modern-day Democrats? Now,
Carter: in fairness, they were saying that about Bill Clinton.
Corey: Yeah.
Corey: Yeah, but nobody cared is my point. Like, it just – it's too much time, you know? The reality is this is not the party of Reagan. It hasn't been for a long time. And it's really, really not the party of Reagan under Donald Trump.
Carter: it's too much
Carter: No. I mean, Donald Trump, it's not the party of anybody when Donald Trump's the leader.
Carter: No,
Carter: No, it's the party of Donald Trump,
Corey: No, it's the party of Donald Trump, yeah. Yeah. Donald
Carter: Donald Trump is is unique in
Carter: the way that he's constructed the the
Carter: Republican Party. You
Carter: You
SPEAKER_01: You know,
Carter: know,
SPEAKER_01: know,
Carter: know,
SPEAKER_01: know, Newt
Carter: Newt Gingrich, I guess we could argue, had some
Carter: some of the similar effects when he was control when Speaker of the House. But, yeah, I
Corey: yeah, I
Carter: I
Carter: I
Carter: I think
Carter: we I think we're stretching to get to that place. This is this is a new era. So
Carter: what's going to happen in Ukraine, my friend? Do the Coalition of the Willing, does the Coalition of the Willing step
Carter: step up and step in and, you
Carter: know, protect
Carter: protect and preserve Ukraine as we somewhat
Carter: somewhat remember it?
Corey: Well, I hope so.
Corey: think that the war in Ukraine,
Corey: there's things that give me hope and there's things that give me pause, right? Things that give me hope, top of the list. Do you remember when Russia was supposed to just finish off that country in three days?
Carter: Oh, I'm very familiar. it was about three years ago did
Corey: did not and it was going to
Carter: and it was going to
Corey: to take
Carter: take three
Corey: three days
Carter: days didn't
Corey: didn't
Corey: didn't happen and that didn't happen not because american tanks were there not because american munitions were making their way into the country but because the ukrainian people said absolutely fucking not and they stood up and they put on a resistance and they pushed russia back right so let's not forget let's never forget that the fundamental ingredient of their resistance is their own will to resist and i see no reason to believe that that's gone away in any meaningful sense right Right. So that's that's number one. The other thing that gives me kind of hope is that the nature of warfare has
Corey: changed. And I think Ukraine has been a bit of a testing ground for that. Like, it's just it's there's drones everywhere. You know, the view of like the value of a tank versus not is different. Some of this has changed. I'm not diminishing for a minute the value of HIMARS and some of the systems that the Americans put forward. But it
Corey: it war is going to be different. America has helped Ukraine. Ukraine, but I think innovation that Ukraine itself has brought forward has also told us a little bit about what the path forward might look like. And then the third ingredient that gives me hope is that there is a coalition of the willing. There are people saying, well,
Corey: well, we better fucking figure this out, right? And while Canada has been a bit of a defense laggard, and while no country really matches the United States in their defense spending or capacity,
Corey: Europe's pretty big. And And Europe has an awful lot of a defense industry, too, that can help fill some of these gaps as everybody tries to figure it out here. So that's on the pro side. On
Corey: the con side,
Corey: that's a huge hole to fill. And the Ukrainians, even back in those first days, benefited from American intelligence and American support in ways that I think are a little hard to exactly quantify, but certainly were real. And that doesn't exist, it seems, anymore as of today. So it's a scarier world now.
Corey: but there
Corey: are some components that give me a little bit of hope here. And I certainly think it's our job as
Corey: just civilization to try to help a nation that is being attacked like this. And I hope we can figure it out.
Carter: So I'm taking some lessons from what you said there. And I think we need to, you and I need to learn how to fly drones.
Corey: I think we
Corey: We need to buy some drones that can drop, you know. We need to
Carter: that can drop,
Carter: know. We need to buy ourselves some guns. Yeah, okay. We have to resist.
Corey: okay. We
Carter: that's what i'm hearing what
Corey: what would a canadian resistance look like realistically you know i just i i think i
Corey: think i
Carter: i would be
Corey: be when
Carter: when
Carter: you're careful remember they're listening that's
Corey: that's great okay great point you know i'm not going to mention don't where the choke points are that we're going to have to think no
Carter: i'm not
Carter: no there's a couple of points that are going to be difficult we're going to have our work cut out for us in southern alberta we
Corey: we are this is my point like it's big open space But maybe we should try to avoid the war because 28 grams of prevention is worth 453 grams of cure for sure in this case. So maybe let's talk about how we get away from that, like head it off.
Corey: That would be my hope.
Carter: Thank you very much, Corey. I mean, really,
Carter: really, your commitment to this show is just really showing.
Carter: So today, the aid to Ukraine stopped.
Corey: Yeah.
Carter: Yeah.
Corey: Tariffs start tomorrow. Huh.
Corey: Brooke
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