Episode 999.99999: Fifty dollars and two weeks

Zain 0:03

This is the strategist episode 999.99999. My name is Zain Velji, with me as always, Corey

Zain 0:11

Stephen Carter. Stephen Carter, are you with me as always?

Carter 0:16

Yeah, but just there seemed to be one extra nine there. Couldn't this be four nines?

Zain 0:20

This is this is not four nines, Stephen Carter. This is four nines was Thursday,

Carter 0:26

nines was Thursday. we didn't do a show on thursday oh

Zain 0:29

oh we did do a show

Corey 0:30

show on thursday oh we did yeah what what's

Carter 0:33

what's this what's this now what what we didn't seriously i

Zain 0:42

seriously yeah do you want to tell them should

Zain 0:44

should i tell them yeah

Corey 0:45

yeah so it turns out you did a 24 hour live stream uh where you deconstructed every campaign you've ever worked on um

Corey 0:52

um and And you confessed your absolute inadequacy in each of them and how you've relied on Zane and myself to get anything done.

Carter 1:01

Well, you had me until the confess the absolute inadequacy of myself relying on you and Zane. That obviously did not happen.

Zain 1:09

Okay, so let's explain this. The confessing part, you mean. Yeah.

Zain 1:12

Let's explain this to all of our non-Patreon subscribers and Stephen.

Zain 1:17

So on Thursday, we recorded an episode aptly titled titled episode 999.9999 with the four nines this one is the one with five nines steven was there but

Zain 1:32

may not remember being there because steven you were heavily medicated and

Zain 1:37

and you actually told us during the podcast this was not a bit by the way this was not one of our classic strategist bits this was this was steven carter medicated after a bike accident, taking twice the recommended dosage, realizing that about 60% through the show, and then probably just staring at his hands the entire time because my video stopped working. So I had no idea what was going on with Carter. And I will say that train wreck is available to you alongside a numerous number of other episodes for a low, low price of $6 a month.

Corey 2:15

$6 a month, you get access to the Patreon

Corey 2:17

Patreon exclusives, which are still happening weekly

Corey 2:20

weekly through the summer.

Corey 2:22

Plus, at $10 a month, you get access to our deep, deep back catalog of all of the times Stephen Carter made bad predictions.

Corey 2:29

You know, anything over three months old is there. So, you

Corey 2:32

you know, if you're feeling the pain of these only being every two weeks right now,

Corey 2:36

we've got a way we can profit from that. And we just wanted to make sure you knew that right here at the top.

Zain 2:41

Carter, you know, I know that. Yeah, go ahead, Carter. Because I know that folks at home are just, or wherever they are, I should say, are just running towards

Zain 2:49

towards their computer, their phone, sign up to hear that episode. Now that you've realized that that happened, do you feel like you were, I don't know, taken advantage of? Do you feel like you've got any regrets? Okay. Yeah, no, I'll give you a couple of seconds to voice

Carter 3:02

voice your concerns. Yes. No, you guys took advantage of me. Like, was it not, was it visible

Carter 3:05

visible that I was not doing well? That I was under Medicaid? No

Zain 3:09

No idea. Did I indicate

Carter 3:10

indicate that I was?

Zain 3:12

First of all, hard to tell. Secondly, no idea.

Corey 3:16

Uh, pay $10, get access to the stream and you, you can find out my friend.

Zain 3:20

Oh yeah. I could find out Carter. That's right, Carter. There, there, there is visual evidence of this episode happening. Uh, trust me. I, I think the feedback we got, um, um ranged i think it went from uh i'm canceling my patreon subscription uh which was of course uh my wife uh all the way to uh all

Zain 3:40

all the way to uh carter's best work yet uh which i feel like was a vast majority of people so carter um you know you do have a skill that when you are uh heavily medicated it turns out you put out content uh that the listeners love even more

Carter 3:56

I'm not very comfortable with this I feel like you guys took advantage of me I will be hiring a lawyer there will be trouble okay

Zain 4:02

okay well typical Stephen Carter course uh Carter how

Zain 4:05

are you how are you feeling now feeling

Carter 4:08

feeling pretty good I've managed to marry the anti-inflammatories with the painkillers just about in the perfect perfect marriage feeling very little pain but also uh still able to function so things are really looking up Corey

Zain 4:22

Corey you know still able to function um often we feel like when someone gets a haircut uh that they feel like a new individual and carter kind of feels like a new individual with his his medication now on the right track with the right dosage uh

Zain 4:34

uh but we also talk about as

Zain 4:36

as i said haircuts as being the the the rebirth of a human being and one prime minister justin trudeau has gotten a haircut and cory i do want to spend time on this uh because it was all the rage online uh justin trudeau's haircut cory

Corey 4:54

yeah yeah okay so uh this is gonna be our next 55 minutes a short 55 minute segment i

Zain 4:59

i haven't even introduced a segment i might just halfway through depending on how this goes i just want to see where your uh lack of a better term head is at cory oh perfect uh where is your head at on this on this very important topic of national importance well

Corey 5:13

well so justin trudeau lives

Corey 5:16

lives in ottawa most of the year gets pretty bloody hot in the summer and

Corey 5:20

and uh he decided to get a haircut so you gone

Corey 5:23

gone is that justin trudeau coif right that that flowing hair that

Corey 5:29

that has just been so much a part of his personality since the first time that i met him which was in 2006 and

Corey 5:34

and he was a he was a mere delegate for the gerard kennedy leadership campaign interesting

Corey 5:39

interesting hair tie in there put a pin in that one zane we're going to come back to our friend gerard kennedy but

Corey 5:44

but now he's got shorter

Corey 5:46

shorter shorter hair it's got shorter hair he's got like uh you know a cut that was pretty popular in the 90s the caesar and uh

Corey 5:53

uh there's been all sorts of conversation as to what

Corey 5:56

what does this mean what does this mean what does this tell us about the psyche of our prime minister what does this mean to his electoral chances was

Corey 6:04

was this a good haircut was this

Corey 6:05

this a bad haircut there

Corey 6:07

there was actually an article on the sun chain that talked about him looking

Corey 6:12

jim carrey's character from dumb and dumber which i thought was a bit much uh

Corey 6:16

uh but yes it was a bit much it's not over i

Carter 6:20

i saw the pictures side by side they look far more closely together than cory and my haircut for example well i have hair

Corey 6:28

hair and well that's and you do not yeah carter

Zain 6:31

carter we'll we'll come to you in a second keep going cory

Corey 6:35

so uh look i don't i don't think that this is uh a great haircut you know they say the difference between a good haircut and a bad haircut is $50 in two weeks though so he'll

Corey 6:45

he'll survive Justin Trudeau can rebound over the summertime this can be you

Corey 6:50

you know an opportunity for

Corey 6:51

for him to do some soul searching and and reconnect with a barber that he obviously pissed off at some point in his life there and

Corey 6:58

and we'll all move on the thing about it is is it a good haircut is it a bad haircut I would say his

Corey 7:05

his hair is not meeting its expectations his hair is not living up to its potential we've seen Justin Trudeau's hair we know what it can do we know the memes it can generate and this is not the kind of memes you want to generate the hair he has right now Carter

Zain 7:18

Carter you know I

Zain 7:20

I don't even know where the hell we're going with this but that's the whole purpose of this podcast uh Carter

Zain 7:25

politics and hair there's a connection right listen

Carter 7:28

listen I remember Preston Manning's makeover uh his last election he had it remind me of that actually

Zain 7:34

actually I don't remember this at all so take

Zain 7:37

me back to this he

Carter 7:37

he he lost the glasses he went to contacts he changed his hairstyle his voice was a significant voice coach

Carter 7:44

yeah he had a voice coach to change him from you know his nasally intonation to something a little bit more human uh which is ironic coming from me um but nonetheless this is a you know this is a tried and true i mean alice and redford i think we put through four different clothing makeovers i don't think we ever got to her hair Arguably, Jyoti Gondek doesn't get elected mayor if she has the same hair that she did in 2018 when she first got elected, 2017. She had a very different kind of long bob. When she cut it to the short hairstyle, it opened up a totally different power dynamic.

Carter 8:21

Hair matters. In fact, you very rarely will see a Joe Biden-esque hairstyle in the White House. You are far more likely to see a Donald Trump full

Carter 8:31

full coif or a Bill Clinton full set of hair. I mean, this is in fact, being tall, having hair, and being able to speak properly are actually three things that we look for in politicians. And arguably, Justin Trudeau only had one

Corey 8:53

is the same number you have, just so we can- Just

Carter 8:55

Just to be clear, but I'm not running to be prime minister. I'm not running to be prime minister. But this is in fact a true thing. When you look at politicians, you will see. I mean, how many politicians? Tell me this. Have you actually talked

Zain 9:09

to a politician about their hair? Have you talked to

Zain 9:13

politician about how they style it, what its potential is? And I guess the follow-up question I have for both of you is that is

Zain 9:23

is this like a reasonable thing to be talking about in our politics? where we talk about how superficial

Zain 9:28

superficial so much of it has become. But Carter, your answer is yes, and I want to let you continue on that. And then I'll ask the broader question. Keep going, Carter. Is

Carter 9:34

Is it superficial? Absolutely, it is superficial. But people make up their minds about you in a heartbeat. They walk up to you and they see you in a heartbeat. And then they will make up your mind about them. You know, I know that this person, like you're standing in line in the grocery store. The person in front of you is wearing a certain outfit and has their hairstyle in a certain way. Yeah. What do you think about them? When you see someone with a mullet, what does the mullet tell you about that person? First of all, an AFL star, obviously. Secondly, a NHL hockey player, right? These are, you know, there are certain hairstyles that dictate who the person is. If they're a 45-year-old with a mullet, you

Carter 10:11

you know, that tells us an awful lot about who they are. And you're not going to see a lot of people getting elected with the old-fashioned, you know, Canadian moulet.

Carter 10:19

It's just not going to happen. So you have to have a hairstyle that actually makes sense to be in the position. Dress for the role you want and dressing for the role that you want includes the way that you style your hair. Now,

Carter 10:32

I don't make the rules, but I do know, and this is one of the hardest things for women, female candidates as well, because it is so hard. Do you think it's hard to nail down what a male candidate's hair should look like? We have essentially three hairstyles.

Carter 10:46

Corey's hairstyle, Zane's hairstyle, Stephen's hairstyle. Those

Carter 10:48

are the three hairstyles.

Carter 10:51

then and then you have now apparently the reintroduction of the 1990s Caesar style that went out when, you know, with frosted

Carter 11:01

frosted tips, you know, but this

Carter 11:04

this is this is not a small thing. This is you running. This is why Justin Trudeau with his long locks was something that was very different about him as a politician and attracted us as a nation to

Carter 11:16

to him and his family. And it actually opened our eyes to him as a potential prime minister. Prove

Carter 11:21

Prove me wrong. Oh,

Zain 11:22

Oh, goodness. That's that. You're putting a lot of weight on

Zain 11:26

on that hair. Was it

Carter 11:27

it his speaking skills? Was it his policy? You tell me what it was that attracted us to Justin Trudeau. Obviously,

Zain 11:34

Obviously, the overall general presentation was part of it. But Corey, you know, the question I have here is the one I went to earlier, which is the superficiality. And frankly,

Zain 11:42

frankly, you know, we're talking about it, but is this even fair game to talk about? And have you had this

Zain 11:46

this discussion with candidates around their presentation, especially as it relates to Heron and how it's, you know, so intricately tied in terms of how we make snap judgments in politics, as Carter was saying? Yeah,

Corey 11:58

Yeah, you know, I've had this conversation with candidates. I've had this conversation with corporate leaders. I've had conversation where I've said that haircut looks too severe. You've got to grow it out or or, you know, something to that effect.

Corey 12:10

should it matter no

Corey 12:12

does it matter it does to some people and if you think it shouldn't matter it shouldn't matter to you either so why do you give a flip just

Corey 12:19

just change your hair right

Corey 12:21

don't let it be a distraction don't die on your hair don't die on your clothes don't let them get in the way of the message you want to deliver so there's there's two ways to think about hair and clothing here there's

Corey 12:30

there's the baseline like you got to elevate it to the point where it's not distracting acting you

Corey 12:34

can't have hockey hair to stephen carter's point right yeah you

Corey 12:37

you can't have arguably trudeau did though

Corey 12:40

years prior to him no i wouldn't call that hockey hair that was that was just that was just good fucking hair only so many men can pull off like the medium length haircut that justin trudeau did yeah

Zain 12:50

yeah and then three of them are not on this podcast yeah none

Zain 12:53

none of us are

Corey 12:54

but you know you gotta have the right volume and the length and all that shit justin

Corey 12:57

justin trudeau had that and clearly he figured it out at some early age that this would be a haircut that works for him and he carried it for a long time which i think is part of why people are reacting in the moment they are now too because it's a change but sure

Corey 13:09

sure my point is there

Corey 13:11

there is the haircut that's just so bad that

Corey 13:14

that it gets in the way of you being a candidate there's the there's the attire that's so bad it gets in the way of you being a candidate and preston manning's a good example of that right preston

Corey 13:22

preston manning's message was getting lost in the fact that

Corey 13:26

he he had this you know uh You know, these big old school glasses, which, by the way, would be so on point now in 2022. But in. Yeah,

Zain 13:34

Yeah, right. Like in a hipster way. Yeah. Yeah.

Corey 13:36

Looked really old school. And his his suits didn't have the right cut and his hair was really, you know, old fashioned. He looked like he came out of a Bible camp in 1965.

Corey 13:49

And it was it was getting in the way of him being the candidate. So there was the laser eye surgery. And we

Corey 13:54

we mentioned that there was a bit of vocal coaching, which I'm not sure was ever kind kind of like confirmed, but certainly you notice he stopped as a classic,

Zain 14:01

reform party of Canada, which

Corey 14:04

which he was famous for, you know, like there were so many people who did the Howard Dean esque. Well, like Preston Manning impersonations, everyone in politics had one for

Corey 14:15

Can't let it be a distraction. So there's the elevate your candidate to the point where it's not a distraction. That sucks. Change it, bring it to a baseline. That's not going to be objectionable to anybody and

Corey 14:24

i actually think that one of the jobs of a campaign manager you know campaign director or something like that is to have that conversation and do it in those cold ways where it no longer becomes like

Corey 14:36

like that's harsh coming from your wife from your campaign director it's just like it's like lose

Corey 14:41

lose it right like we got to do this the numbers show it's not polling well and

Corey 14:46

and it just becomes the business right and you're the only one who can really deliver that message that that way there

Corey 14:52

something that i think justin trudeau had though before i kind of tossed the ball back to you which is which

Corey 14:58

which was hair that wasn't just like non-objectionable which in a way i think his haircut almost is now he had great

Corey 15:06

yeah you know there was the

Corey 15:07

the conservative party ads in 2015 you remember nice hair though how they ended like y

Zain 15:11

y'all just not ready

Corey 15:12

ready great hair though the liberal party ads that

Corey 15:15

that you know that were in some way a rebuttal of it they sort sort of flipped him through like a bunch of random haircuts you remember the animated

Zain 15:21

no no no but i forgot that right good reminder really good reminder yeah

Corey 15:25

yeah i mean his hair and the fact that his hair was so star spangled awesome was like a big part of who he was and being like this young up-and-coming leader he's now the like

Corey 15:35

like he's the oldest of the leaders now but he was the youngest at the time right he was being compared to harper he was being compared

Zain 15:41

compared to mall care

Zain 15:42

carter this is So Corey makes a good point that that Justin Trudeau and his hair inextricably linked. Right. Perhaps even part of the broader brand appeal, the snap judgment that people made about him enhanced

Zain 15:53

enhanced his charisma. Obviously, part of the full physical presentation of a candidate when people made the decision around halo effects on competency around white men, which we've talked about in the past. But Carter, all of this, you know, I don't kind of put aside my sort of like, oh, my goodness, can we even talk about I'll put that aside for a second. fucking

Zain 16:11

fucking trudeau campaign knows this the trudeau camp knows this justin trudeau knows this he knows it's part of the package so when we see something like this is

Zain 16:19

is it fair to say that there's some strategy and some thoughtfulness behind a haircut like this that it can't just be yay it's my hair is too big for summer it's gonna be a hot summer climate change is real i need to get a fucking haircut um there has to be some thought behind what this does to you

Zain 16:36

you know nerdy conversations Conversations like this, yes. But the overall brand presentation of Justin Trudeau going forward, what do you think, Carter?

Carter 16:44

I don't know. I mean, this is a conversation you have in year minus one when you're trying to get your candidate elected. I'm sure it's much harder to have this type of conversation in year seven.

Carter 16:52

When they are the prime minister, you mean? Yeah. When they're like, yeah.

Carter 16:56

You know, like, I'm not sure the prime minister runs his haircut choices through an image consultant anymore. I

Carter 17:01

I think that those days were long ago

Carter 17:04

ago held, And now he gets to do pretty much what he wants, basically on the assumption that

Carter 17:09

that he's going to keep things relatively stable, you

Carter 17:11

you know, because that's what smart

Carter 17:13

smart politicians do. They don't they have haircuts more frequently than the average person and they don't make changes because you don't you know, you want people not to see massive change.

Carter 17:24

Massive change makes us feel uncomfortable. Now,

Carter 17:27

Now, this is a very interesting channel

Carter 17:31

know, we're not talking about inflation. We're talking about haircuts.

Carter 17:34

But it's not going to stop us talking about inflation. Right.

Carter 17:37

Right. I think that we'll still be talking about inflation. It's

Carter 17:39

It's just now, you

Carter 17:40

you know, well, the care that, you know, the the the prime minister doesn't care. He's only, you

Carter 17:47

you know, he's just got himself a haircut. You know, he's not even paying attention to inflation. He can afford a. Well, I mean, this to me looks like a twenty dollar supercut. to be honest i don't i

Carter 17:57

i don't know what happened here maybe that's the message wouldn't that have been great if that was the message saying i

Corey 18:02

i should have mentioned earlier supercuts is the sponsor of this episode so if you can be can we re can we just get like a clean cut of you saying any other haircut company yeah

Carter 18:12

yeah sure that would this doesn't even look like uh you know like a professional haircut this looks like a 20 supercuts haircut oh

Corey 18:19

oh okay i see what you did there but you made this You just made the same mistake.

Carter 18:24

You made the same

Carter 18:25

Okay, here, I'll try again.

Carter 18:26

Try again, yeah. So Justin Trudeau wanted to reset the channel and wanted to show people that he was concerned about inflation. So he went and got himself a much cheaper haircut, one that you can get at Supercuts for only $20. Sponsor of this episode of The Strategist.

Corey 18:42

Actually, I got it wrong. It was Magic Cuts, but thank you. Let's keep moving.

Carter 18:46

Okay. Thank you again, Magic

Zain 18:48

Magic Cuts. It's so hard to keep track of our sponsors. it's just so many of them just just bursting

Zain 18:55

um yeah cory talk to me about this

Zain 18:59

channel changer really overstatement by carter what do you think um

Corey 19:03

um you know it's funny somebody gets a haircut like that like really changes their look i

Corey 19:09

i think like just people like let's just talk about people for a minute you sort of wonder like wonder what they're going for and one of the things i would notice about justin trudeau or i would observe about him is like he He did the whole facial hair thing during the pandemic,

Corey 19:23

It was that touch of gray that was then all of a sudden in it.

Corey 19:27

He shaved that off for the election.

Corey 19:31

know, he's now gotten his super cut.

Corey 19:35

Should have gone to magic cuts, much better haircuts there, I'm told.

Corey 19:42

makes me wonder why, to a certain extent, but it must be exhausting. like to steven's point about hair and brand like

Corey 19:49

like the minute you're sort of elected and the hair is part of your brand like it's been seven years he might just want a different hairstyle right he might just be tired of that one but he feels like he's always going to be pulled back to it like it's the expectation the expectations he doesn't have a beard the expectation is he has long hair he's gonna have to just keep doing this the

Corey 20:07

the thing i wanted to point out though is his dad did this too like

Corey 20:11

like carter you're the only one who's who'd be old enough to remember here but like

Corey 20:15

was Yeah, right. I think there was this one vacation Trudeau came back with the shitty beard, right? And

Corey 20:22

And he sported that for a couple of months. And people said, why you got a beard?

Corey 20:25

What are you doing here?

Corey 20:27

And they had to pull it back before the next election.

Corey 20:30

So it does seem to be a Trudeau character effect here to do it. But I guess what I would say is maybe it's a channel changer. Maybe it's subconsciously him bridling against always having to be the same person.

Corey 20:44

But maybe he's just a guy who's had the same haircut for 20 years and wouldn't mind trying something different. I'm not even sure he has had it straight for 20 years. But you know what I'm saying here is maybe he just wants a haircut.

Zain 20:54

People sometimes get haircuts.

Zain 20:56

Is that the Occam's razor approach or Occam's scissor approach? Prime ministers and presidents don't. You're welcome. I'm here all week. And I can do many of these. yeah i just got it i just got it to get it because it's also yeah no it's it's it's sheer brilliance again i just did it again oh my goodness carter i'll go back to you i'll go back to you please carter go ahead this

Carter 21:16

this is uh no i'm fine this is the sheer madness am i good hey

Zain 21:19

hey cory i want to let you finish on this this wasn't even a segment this is our pre uh pre segment banter so there you go oh yeah you're welcome everyone um gerard

Zain 21:28

gerard kennedy what's the time what the hell were you talking about i have no fucking idea you told me to come back to it i have no fucking clue what you're gonna go right

Corey 21:36

in 2006 at the the liberal convention um

Corey 21:41

many people remember it primarily for the outcome that stefan dion became leader of the liberal party of canada right the

Corey 21:48

the uh the thing that i don't think many people realize is that gerard kennedy getting a bad haircut may have made that happen so

Corey 21:56

so gerard kennedy like our prime minister had long hair medium length hair looked serious and established and gave him kind of an erudite vibe right um

Corey 22:08

and he was uh you know he was able to sort of carry that through and on the first you know going into the convention on that first day i can tell you i was a delegate at that convention uh

Corey 22:17

uh gerard kennedy showed up with what is actually when i look back at the pictures a pretty normal haircut but it was very

Corey 22:23

very different from what he was rocking in the months before and there was was like whispers like what's going on with gerard kennedy's hair and it just made him look so much younger it made him look boyish instead of somebody who might be you

Corey 22:34

you know the next prime minister of canada and

Corey 22:36

and what i think about there is that on the first ballot which

Corey 22:41

which is made up of people who are pledged and then the canadian version of super delegates which were ex-officio delegates who were able to vote however they wanted um

Corey 22:51

the you know going into it based on on elected delegates the expectation is the order of candidates would be ignatia

Corey 22:57

ignatia first ray second kennedy third dion fourth the

Corey 23:01

thing that propelled dion into this like insane momentum which actually carried him to the leadership of the job was

Corey 23:06

was that on that first ballot where gerard kennedy was like a hundred elected delegates ahead stefan

Corey 23:12

stefan dion ended up in third place so he by two votes 856 six delegates to 854, Stéphane

Corey 23:22

was in third place coming out of that ballot. And from there, Martha Hall Finley dropped and, you know, then goes to Stéphane

Corey 23:29

Stéphane Dion. And then on the second ballot, Dion

Corey 23:31

Dion is still ahead of Kennedy. And Kennedy and Dion had a deal where whoever was

Corey 23:37

was behind on that kind of like that second ballot or the elimination ballot,

Corey 23:42

would would throw to the other.

Corey 23:44

Kennedy's delegates all came to

Corey 23:46

to Dion. Like, by and large, you look at the numbers, pretty clean transfer. I can tell you, like, as a Dion organizer

Corey 23:52

the time in that election, we

Corey 23:53

we would not have been able to deliver our delegates in the same way to the Kennedy campaign. Would not have happened.

Corey 23:59

Simply would not have happened.

Corey 24:01

And a huge chunk of them would have bled to the Wray campaign.

Corey 24:05

If it had gone the other way, if one person had decided, actually, I can live with that haircut, I'm going to vote for Gerard Kennedy, and the vote flips and the vote order is the same, Bob

Corey 24:14

Bob Ray would have won that leadership.

Corey 24:17

Bob Ray would have won that leadership and the parallel history that spins out after that is

Zain 24:24

There's no green shift.

Zain 24:26

are you still betting? Carter, you may want to take your medication. I'm

Carter 24:30

supposed to be the lunatic fringe on this podcast. I'm a little disappointing.

Corey 24:37

you doing with your life?

Corey 24:40

Let me tell tell you something zane bad

Corey 24:45

can change the course of history true

Zain 24:47

two votes man oh

Corey 24:50

the way do you know what happens yada yada yada bob

Zain 24:56

jason kenney's prime minister

Zain 24:57

okay i will i won't even let you go the into the interim steps i'll just buy it that's fine thank you cory thank you carter uh that non-segment of course brought to us by flair airlines flair airlines just like a bad haircut there's room for us to grow let's

Zain 25:09

let's move it on to our first segment our

Zain 25:11

our first segment summer

Zain 25:14

summer surprise guys we are in what are we we're mid july so we're entering the six weeks and

Zain 25:20

and stephen carter we do this we do this episode every summer as you know yeah

Carter 25:23

yeah of course we do we

Carter 25:25

for i'm a big fan the

Zain 25:26

the dog days of summer the six

Zain 25:28

weeks or so where people are as we know people are off this week next week all the way until the end of august so

Zain 25:33

so people are kind of loosening up a bit they're they've got travel plans if they could make them. They've got vacation plans at the very least. They're taking time off. And that

Zain 25:42

that also goes for our political parties, our political leaders, the political operators. Everyone's taking a big breath. And yes, there's leadership races, the UCP, the conservative leadership race federally,

Zain 25:52

federally, but folks are also cognizant that normals and the everyday folk are taking time off as well. So Carter, what I want to do as we do every year is we want to talk about these threats to parties priorities that they face

Zain 26:07

during the summer. Of course, there's the natural threats or the obvious ones, right, for the liberals if they don't get their handle on how government runs, passports, inflation, cost of living. Yeah, that's the obvious stuff.

Zain 26:18

But I want to talk about what surprises are in store, what sneak attacks each political party needs to be aware of. What are things that are not front and center that maybe a summer government is looking at saying, OK, we've got one priority, one priority alone, let us get through this, that

Zain 26:34

that they can lose sight of, that they can drop the ball on, that they can perhaps have as an attack or an issue or a situation happen to them.

Zain 26:44

So I want you guys to obviously look beyond the obvious.

Zain 26:48

The conservatives, I think the obvious one, let me put out another example,

Zain 26:51

is that they go so hard and

Zain 26:54

and so scorched earth against each other that they have no pathway to

Zain 26:59

reconciling on the back end of the leadership. Okay, that's the obvious one.

Zain 27:02

What's not so so obvious for them over the next six weeks when people take a break, when people take their foot off the gas. And Carter, the best way to start is to start, let's go with the Federal Liberal Party, the governing party of this country.

Zain 27:14

What is a surprise or sneak thing that they need to be careful of, aware of over the course of the next six weeks when people try to exhale a bit?

Carter 27:23

Don't let the prime minister get a haircut, unsupervised.

Carter 27:28

No, I think that the problem that they have is that they're

Carter 27:31

they're going to be the continued branding of the individual problem, you know, that exists worldwide right now of significant inflation due

Carter 27:41

you know, due to worldwide factors that are going to be then cast upon the individual governments, right? Joe Biden's

Carter 27:48

Boris Johnson arguably faced it. Certainly the people of Sri Lanka have

Carter 27:52

have spoken that they are not pleased with their leadership and have occupied the presidential palace and driven

Carter 27:57

driven out the prime minister.

Carter 27:59

It doesn't matter where you are. that kind of

Carter 28:03

of local, the worldwide drama taking

Carter 28:07

taking place locally, as

Carter 28:09

as it becomes a narrative that becomes lodged

Carter 28:12

lodged on you as a political leader. Rachel Notley faced this right after she was elected. She was, of course, in

Carter 28:22

in 2015, she was the one who brought on the world change

Carter 28:27

change in oil oil prices, right? Except it was all her, you

Carter 28:30

you know, a lowly premier of Alberta who destroyed oil and gas in Alberta.

Carter 28:35

That's the type of thing that haunts a government forever, and you can never recast yourself with it. And I think that that's the Trudeau problem right now, is

Carter 28:43

is that they're going to literally become what

Carter 28:46

what Pierre Polyev has been trying to hawk through his just inflation. I think that if he just dropped the just inflation shit and just said, you know, know, we can't afford things that this could be that the Trudeau liberals may never be able to walk away from this because it doesn't feel to me like it's a six month problem or a six week problem. It feels to me like this could easily be a two year problem.

Zain 29:12

Corey, Carter gave us the obvious one. I said Carter, not the not so obvious one. So, Corey, let me rephrase this. What

Carter 29:18

What do you mean? No,

Zain 29:19

I'll come back to you. You'll get a second chance. Carter, life's all about second chance, especially on this show. So, Corey,

Zain 29:25

you're the liberals and you're the strategist in the room for the liberals that's that's there to say, OK, yes, the obvious thing is cost of living inflation. But here's the not so obvious. Here's the thing that I need you to focus on as well. Here's the thing I need you to be aware of or have a defense of as

Zain 29:44

If you're in the room for the liberals as they as they plan to caretake over the course of the next six weeks, what is that for you, Corey?

Corey 29:51

there's a lot of things that i think the liberals have piling up right now um i'm trying to think of an umbrella that maybe covers all of these here but look the liberals have a number of um you

Corey 30:03

you know scandals big and small issues big and small that are starting to pile up at their doorstep and um i think that the liberal partisans and perhaps even the liberal inner circles are They're almost underplaying

Corey 30:16

underplaying them. You know, it's just, oh, it's just Pierre Poliev doing Pierre Poliev things. And, you know, what I would say is just because your opponents are saying it for political gain doesn't

Corey 30:25

doesn't mean it's not a problem with the general public. And so I think that they've got to get

Corey 30:29

get outside of the partisan blinders and like this dismissal of any attack that comes from the opponents and actually look at what Canadians

Corey 30:35

Canadians are feeling right now and what

Corey 30:37

what they're getting credit for and what they're not. because the liberals are very quick to point to what I have said is a very impressive

Corey 30:44

impressive record of change. Everything from legalizing cannabis to universal childcare to you

Corey 30:50

you name it, significant

Corey 30:51

significant spending in a lot of different sectors has really remade Canadian society since 2015,

Corey 30:57

I think in a consequential way, unparalleled

Corey 30:59

unparalleled in decades for sure. But

Corey 31:03

there is always with voters the what have you done for me lately effect and the recency uh you know bias that that plays into this here and and

Corey 31:10

and those issues i was talking about some

Corey 31:12

some are at a boil some are at a simmer but the liberals can't sit there and bat them away and say that's nothing compared to we just got your child care or something right

Corey 31:23

passports pearson airport it's a problem people want to fly rcmp impropriety out in nova scotia the suggestion

Carter 31:31

suggestion that maybe they

Corey 31:33

that tragedy for gains on firearms, that's a problem.

Corey 31:37

High inflation, of course. It doesn't matter that it's a global challenge. I mean, in

Corey 31:42

in a way, you could blame nobody if you just want to take this nihilistic, oh, what do you do? It's a problem everywhere sort of answer to things here, right?

Corey 31:49

right? It's taking down governments of left and right variety all over the globe.

Corey 31:54

And it's something that the liberals have to be on top of because they are the government and they are going to wear it.

Corey 31:59

Even things like the Rogers outage.

Corey 32:01

That's a problem. And it's a problem that occurred while they're in government. And they can't sit and say, oh,

Corey 32:07

oh, you're just blaming us for this. It's not our fault. This is just kind of conservative attacks. There's this general malaise in the country that

Corey 32:12

that they need to be very mindful of. And just because that malaise is being exacerbated

Corey 32:16

exacerbated by and certainly articulated by the opposition doesn't

Corey 32:21

doesn't make it any less real.

Corey 32:23

So I think that as I've talked this out, the thing the liberals need to be worried about, the sneak attack here, is

Corey 32:30

they need to not discount things simply because they're coming from the conservatives.

Carter 32:35

On Pierre Palliev specifically.

Carter 32:37

We have a visceral reaction to Pierre Palliev. I don't like Pierre Palliev. There's a lot of people who don't like Pierre Palliev, who know him very well. And I would suggest a lot of those people are in the liberal party war rooms or whatever rooms that they're making up their their strategies in. They know who Pierre is. They know what a character

Carter 32:58

character he represents, and they choose to minimize him. But he is showing-

Zain 33:05

think, Carter, do you think they're choosing to minimize him? We haven't seen much in the way of, and we've talked extensively about whether the liberals should go early on Pierre, but I don't know if I agree that they're choosing to minimize him. What sense do you have that they are, and they're not taking him seriously from a planning

Zain 33:21

planning perspective? Let me

Carter 33:22

me rephrase it into your question. And your question was, what could sneak up to them?

Carter 33:27

The rephrasing of the answer is, they

Carter 33:30

they should not take him lightly, because in six to eight weeks, he could very well be the leader of the opposition, and his polling numbers could leap above Justin Trudeau's by five points.

Zain 33:41

that's an interesting point you know what last time we discussed this concept about pierre was was a few months back we now sit here what

Zain 33:47

what mid mid july's we're only about you guys correct me on the math a couple months away from more than likely pierre being elected and then it's like from there on in like it's it you would expect that the liberals would probably need a bunch of material that they have scheduled planned strategized to

Zain 34:06

to rip him down and tear him down or at least try to make a go of it. Would you not, Carter?

Carter 34:10

I would expect so. But again, you might just say, you

Carter 34:13

you know, like if you're just sitting back and you're saying, well, we know who this guy is, the Canadian public will soon discover him.

Carter 34:19

That's not a particularly good strategy.

Carter 34:21

So you need to do the heavy lifting. And we have talked about before the Liberals' inability to do rapid response, to do that

Carter 34:31

that type of work.

Carter 34:33

So if they don't know how to do it, if

Carter 34:35

if they haven't done it before, what makes them think that they can do it now okay

Carter 34:38

okay this is an interesting

Corey 34:39

interesting one for me because um we are still so far away from an election but you obviously want to define them early we've seen how successful that can be with stefan dion by the way who makes his second cameo appearance of the podcast uh

Corey 34:51

uh with michael ignach if you you come in and you define somebody but you know one of the things that stephen harper did really effectively with both of those cases was he defined them not Not about an

Corey 35:04

or a policy, but about character.

Corey 35:06

Really rapidly defined Stefan Dion as somebody who was backless,

Corey 35:10

backless, over his head. Do you think it is easy to make priorities, right?

Corey 35:15

Michael Ignatieff just visiting. Again, these are character attacks. They're not actually rooted on very much. And

Corey 35:21

And I think the liberals need to be prepared to define Pierre Polyev's character. But I think it would be a mistake to spend the first week that Pierre Polyev is leader of the conservatives to be talking about Bitcoin, unless Bitcoin is in some ways ramping up and laddering into a character attack. So I agree with Steve and they've got to be careful. And, you know, the sneak attack might be the most obvious attack yet. It's just that

Corey 35:44

that Pierre Polyev is going to come in and go guns blazing and all of a sudden he's going to be in the House of Commons and he's going to be shouting across to Justin Trudeau. I've got your daddy's name and I want your daddy's job and flipping him the finger you know I like

Zain 35:58

like that that's a pretty

Zain 36:04

legendary scene from Dave if you haven't seen it I recommend checking it out. Corey

Zain 36:09

Corey I'm going to stick with you for our next one. Conservatives

Zain 36:12

they've got their obvious issues perhaps around unity on a federal level talking about the federal conservatives here

Zain 36:18

what's their sneak attack? What's their thing? What's their surprise that they need to keep their eye on over the course of the next six weeks or so as we head into early September?

Corey 36:29

Well, you said obviously unity, and that's the one I was going to say. So I will

Corey 36:34

talk about nothing for five seconds as I come up with a different answer here. But

Corey 36:38

But I think that the big risk for them really is

Corey 36:45

It's pacing. They've got this guy who's going to be their new leader, almost certainly in Pierre Poliev. He's going to come in.

Corey 36:52

he's going to unload both barrels. He's going to try to define things. The liberals will probably be caught a little flat footed. There'll be a bit of a halo effect, but

Corey 37:01

but it doesn't matter. The election is not until 2025. Right. As much as, you know, this pundit class around conservatives have tried to wish into effect a

Corey 37:09

a snap fall election. That's not going to fucking happen. happen it's

Zain 37:12

it's not going to happen the

Corey 37:13

the liberals were up by like i

Corey 37:15

i don't know five to ten points when they called the last election and they ended up behind by two they're

Corey 37:19

they're not going to make the mistake of

Corey 37:21

going into an election where they're behind by two they'll

Corey 37:23

they'll get crushed they will not be government coming out of this thing they know it there's

Corey 37:27

there's no appetite for it the fatigue is real all of those issues i listed is a not a complete list we can also talk about immigration visa backlog use of emergencies act north stream turbines in ukraine i mean the list goes on why in the fuck would they They go to an election

Corey 37:42

is thinking about that. And

Corey 37:43

And if the conservatives act as though there's an election coming and start firing all their shots and try to define the things and move the way they're looking to move just

Corey 37:51

just to be sitting there in November saying, well, I guess we've got a few years to kill.

Corey 37:55

That'll be a mistake, because in some ways what they might do is just lock themselves into a certain definition of themselves, use all of that wonderful opportunity to define a new leader and

Corey 38:05

and define it in an election setting, which doesn't give you a huge range of motion. And then the liberals can just adjust. They

Corey 38:11

They can maybe even get a new leader.

Corey 38:13

They can certainly get new policies. They can take different approaches. The

Corey 38:16

The conservatives need to think about the long game, and the long game requires range of motion.

Corey 38:21

So that means when you come out as the new leader, you're giving yourself the

Corey 38:24

the opportunity to do many things over the next three years, and you're not putting yourself in a box.

Zain 38:29

like that pacing by Corey Carter. Let's hold your thoughts, and I'm going to come back to both of you on the

Zain 38:35

the conservatives trying to peddle and certainly fundraise off of, we heard that liberals are going to go to the polls in the fall. Hold your thought on that.

Zain 38:43

Carter, your take on the federal conservatives and their surprise or sneak attack or something they need to keep their eye out on as they look at some of the obvious things around their party and their leadership. The

Carter 38:58

The pivot. I think that we're all anticipating the great pivot of 2023, where

Carter 39:03

where Pierre Polyev goes from being the insane lunatic that's appealing to the truck drivers and the, you

Carter 39:10

you know, the anti-vaxxers and the crypto bros and the all the various sub, you know, micro targets that he's been aiming for. and he starts to go after the middle, all

Carter 39:23

all right? And when he starts to go after that middle, that pivot is going to be jarring,

Carter 39:27

to say the least. One of the interesting things about Trump

Carter 39:30

Trump is Trump never moved to the middle.

Carter 39:33

Trump dragged the middle to him. And I don't think Pierre

Carter 39:37

Pierre Polyev is Trump.

Carter 39:39

I think Pierre Polyev will try and do a pivot to the middle. I certainly think that that's what his senior organizers think he's going to do. And when they do that pivot to the middle, it's going to be, uh, it could be the

Carter 39:51

the end of the conservative party. I mean, it's, I don't think it breaks it apart necessarily, but it,

Carter 39:56

it, you know, that, that breakup, that holding everybody together is, is what you said was the obvious piece, but the, the pivot, the pivot to the middle is the, is the part that's going to be so hard to do because it's so hard to hold together that the factions of the conservative party, we saw it in Michelle Rempelgarner's letter, Right. These are these are separate groups in both the provincial and the federal parties that that that are going to be hard to

Carter 40:21

to hold together. And if you pivot, which

Carter 40:23

which Pierre probably have, I believe, knows he has to do, it's

Carter 40:27

it's going to be jarring for everybody.

Carter 40:29

And that might be give that

Carter 40:32

be so negative for the conservatives that it actually gives the liberals a chance to recover and

Carter 40:37

and hold their own.

Zain 40:39

I don't know if I agree with you, Carter, that Pierre is going to pivot. I mean, Corey, do you want to spend a few seconds on this? Because I like what you said at a high level, Carter, being mindful of the pivot, but nothing about what Pierre Polyev has said, done, his tone, his cadence, his policy suggests to me that a pivot is within question.

Corey 40:57

Yeah, I don't think he's going to pivot. I think the Pierre we see now is the Pierre we're going to get.

Corey 41:02

Maybe he'll put more emphasis on certain things, but I don't even think to the level that you You could describe it as a pivot.

Corey 41:09

He is who he is. And if he's learned anything from Trump, it's that maybe there's an area like the Midwest out there where you can just go and create an entirely different path to victory.

Corey 41:18

And I think that seems to me, seems

Corey 41:22

seems to me, has to be just based on the fact that otherwise his strategy is insane because

Corey 41:27

he's going to be antagonizing other people. yeah

Corey 41:29

yeah that what he's doing is he's trying to take

Corey 41:33

take a message that he's workshopping right now and take it out into the field further i

Carter 41:39

i think you're gonna i think we're gonna see a massive pivot i

Carter 41:42

i think we're gonna see a massive pivot and that's the don't you think don't

Zain 41:46

don't you think carter pierre polly have selling proposition is that the last three shots that this party has had saw a pivot and those pivots were fucking bullshit they're ineffective that i'm going in for purity and purity alone. And in fact, not only am I going for that, I have been that consistently for the decade plus. I don't know how long he's been in office. I forget at the top of my head. Maybe two decades plus I've been in public life. I've been pure to

Zain 42:10

to the T, Carter. So don't you think a pivot is a betrayal?

Carter 42:15

It could be. But this is what I'm telling you. I think there's going to be a pivot, and I think it's going to be devastating

Carter 42:21

devastating for the party.

Zain 42:24

Carter, talk to me about this other piece right here, this conservatives peddling a fall election by the Trudeau liberals.

Zain 42:31

What's the strategy here? Clearly, there's a fundraising strategy, right? That this is, we need the money, we need to be ready.

Zain 42:37

What is it beyond that, in your mind? What do you think they're trying to do? And are they successful in doing it? these

Carter 42:42

these craven liberals will do anything these

Carter 42:44

these craven liberals will do anything they want you know to do to to maintain and to hold on to power they

Carter 42:49

they will uh they'll hold an election 15 minutes after holding their last election it defines the brand positioning that they want the liberals in and

Carter 42:57

and if it doesn't happen then you get to say at the end thank god you did that thank god you held them to thank god you helped

Zain 43:03

helped prevent it right you

Carter 43:04

you the donor the supporter you made

Carter 43:06

made sure that they They weren't going to be successful through your actions, through your donations. But it reinforces a brand position for the liberals from the conservative point of view, and that is that they're craven. They will do anything to hold on to power.

Carter 43:25

population in this particular case, in my mind,

Carter 43:29

the conservatives who are making up a story that

Carter 43:32

that is absolutely implausible for

Carter 43:35

for all the reasons that Corey he said a

Zain 43:38

Corey, you talked about how it's implausible. I think we're all on side with you in agreeing that the liberals are not going to go to the polls in

Zain 43:44

in the fall. But talk to me about the strategy or what do you think the conservatives are trying to do and maybe build on what Carter said if you agree with it?

Corey 43:54

I don't think that I got super hung up on the fact that Carter kept using the word craven, which is a synonym for cowardly, as

Corey 44:02

as though it was opportunistic. And so I think maybe we should all

Corey 44:05

marinate. you'll get that for a minute yeah

Zain 44:08

let's just take a moment for it let's go ahead cory let's just take a moment okay okay

Corey 44:12

okay that's a good moment here

Zain 44:13

that's a good that's a really

Corey 44:14

back to you cory

Carter 44:15

it really doesn't i

Corey 44:18

don't know i don't know what you want me to say for all of the reasons i said this is not going to happen in the fall i think that the conservatives know that too yeah

Corey 44:26

they are just right now trying to build a hype machine but the thing about a hype machine like that is it can get a bit out of control and all of a sudden you start to believe it and

Corey 44:33

then if you're believing that hype machine and

Corey 44:36

you start acting towards that uh you've kind of screwed yourself so maybe that's another sneak attack they need to look up on which is they too cannot believe their own fucking press they cannot have

Corey 44:46

situation where they think that there's going to be a fall election and start moving all of their resources towards

Zain 44:51

carter do you think pierre starts adopting this fall election mantra i haven't seen him do it thus far this has come from the party and peddled by operatives i haven't seen pierre on the stump being like these fucking liberals are going to go do it in the fall do you think he'll do it and should he do it from a purely opportunistic uh arguably uh carter craven perspective should they do it should the conservatives are

Carter 45:11

are you the conservatives i am

Zain 45:13

am i am that's much more sophisticatedly yes i am uh should should the conservatives pick should pierre pick this up carter should

Carter 45:20

should pierre pick it up no yeah pierre should be projecting strength

Carter 45:24

pierre should be saying i hope they fucking do i

Carter 45:27

hope they fucking do i hope they bring it I hope they bring it and I hope they bring their best operatives because I could crush them like small bugs that

Carter 45:33

should be Pierre's position Pierre's

Carter 45:35

Pierre's position should be I'm strong they are weak I hope they do it and

Carter 45:40

and it's something that only he can can carry um

Carter 45:43

um the the the weakness implied by this um by

Carter 45:51

positioning is so bad like it is so bad for the conservatives to be like Like, you

Carter 45:56

you know, we're so weak that the conservative that we will be overrun

Carter 45:59

overrun if they chose to have another election. I mean, come

Carter 46:03

come on, be strong.

Carter 46:04

I hope they have one. And I think that Pierre is strong enough to say, I

Carter 46:08

I hope they have one. I hope they call it. I'm

Carter 46:10

I'm the only one who can beat them.

Carter 46:12

That's the thing that makes total sense for Pierre.

Zain 46:16

Corey, what do you think? Should should Pierre pick this up as a line of just pure political opportunism? Do you feel like there's an opportunity there for his campaign and his tone and how he has structured his pathway to victory by now hammering that the liberals are going to go to the polls in the fall, so to speak?

Corey 46:34

Well, let's play this out. Yeah, let's do it.

Corey 46:39

it would actually be – for all of the reasons why I said the liberals would be insane to go to the polls in the fall, it would be very advantageous for him to go to the polls in the fall, right?

Zain 46:47

Halo effect, all the things we've talked about. Is there

Corey 46:49

there anything he could do that would make a fall election more likely? If you're Pierre Polyev, maybe that's the thing you want to get on. And maybe it's a simple pride thing. Maybe you want to goad the liberals into it.

Corey 47:00

You know, say, well,

Corey 47:02

you barely had a mandate to begin with. The conservatives got more votes than you. You're an illegitimate government. You

Corey 47:08

You don't have the stones. I double dog dare you, basically, to

Corey 47:12

to call this election. Let's settle this right now. What do you say? But, you know, I actually think that's very childish and I don't think it'd be likely to happen. But I don't know, like if you're Pierre Polyev, I don't think your version of this is, boy,

Corey 47:27

boy, there's a risk of a fall election, guys.

Corey 47:31

They'll never do it. They're a bunch of, they know how unhappy Canadians are with them. They know Canadians want to live in the freest country on earth. I would welcome that election anytime. I think Canadians deserve that election. This

Corey 47:42

This government has shown as recently as through the use of the Emergencies Act that

Corey 47:47

that they have lost any legitimacy to govern. They've lost the authority to govern. And it's time for an election. I know we just had one. But

Corey 47:54

But when events have changed so substantially, as this government has done through their illegal acts in the winter, as

Corey 48:00

as Canadians with sincere concerns about vaccine mandates and the infringements they were putting on their freedom came forward, then yeah, let's clear the air on this. Let's have a fall election. What do you say? I've got your dad's name. I've got your number.

Zain 48:14

Hey, Carter. Carter, you hear Pierre Polyev say what Corey just said. And by the way, they look so similar. It's almost like Pierre

Carter 48:21

Pierre just said it. It was like listening to Pierre. It's almost like he said it. Yeah. Yeah. It's

Carter 48:24

almost like you said,

Zain 48:24

said, it was like one of those, Corey, could you have some wood near you that you can stroke while repeating that again? Cause I think, I think if you do, we could just record this. Yeah.

Carter 48:31

Yeah. And just put it on there. Can you watch me stroke your wood?

Carter 48:34

that came out wrong. Yeah.

Zain 48:35

Yeah. It did come out wrong, Carter. It's brought to you by Magic Cuts.

Zain 48:42

Carter, you hear what Corey just said over the course of this summer from Pierre next six weeks. Are you impressed by that? Are you like, Hmm, Interesting. Interesting play by this guy. You know, not just attacking his opponent because he probably doesn't have one in charrette, so to speak. Now that Brown's gone, but he's going after Trudeau and he's going after him electorally on an election. Are you impressed by if you if you heard what Corey just said coming out of the mouth of Pierre Polyev this summer?

Carter 49:07

Yeah, I am for sure, because he looks strong.

Carter 49:10

Politics isn't just about being strong or being, you know, being in the right place at the right time. Politics is about appearing to be more than you actually are. You know, I used to call it this

Carter 49:22

this idea of creating myth, you know, a mythical level of, you know, expectation around yourself. And then people started to equate myth with lying. So I moved away from the language. But the idea of myth is what carries us in politics. We become mythical beings, bigger and stronger than the sum of our parts. And I think that Pierre could truly become that.

Carter 49:45

uh he has the ability to become mythical um he's

Carter 49:50

he's his his oratory skills um are so strong that they can that he can carry this type of messaging when others others wouldn't be able to especially against justin trudeau who

Carter 50:02

who you know like samson with his hair cut off no longer has that that power carter

Zain 50:08

carter i federal ndp i i can't spend a bunch of time on this because canadians are not spending a bunch of time on this but

Zain 50:14

but what the fuck do they okay correct carter i got i got carter's answer on the federal ndp which was who uh

Zain 50:21

uh i'm going to take that as relevancy cory

Zain 50:23

cory do you have anything for me on the federal ndp their sneak and surprise attack this summer i suspect their obvious thing is just chasing relevancy and keeping this pack together with the liberals but you have anything for me on what they need to be not

Zain 50:35

not so obviously aware of this summer why do you always

Corey 50:37

always take the one i'm going to give uh and just dismiss it as not worth Because

Zain 50:41

Because I could very easily do this show myself. I

Zain 50:44

I think everyone needs to know that. Go ahead, Corey.

Corey 50:48

but I think that is the one. So the NDP are in an interesting position. I still think that they are not badly positioned with their deal to get a number of things out of the liberal government that they can then try to take credit for. They

Corey 50:59

They don't want the election. But the flip side of that is, of course, they

Corey 51:04

they might lose all credit and all relevancy if they're not careful. So they do need to still carve out a place for themselves and they still need to show that they're fighting for things and

Corey 51:12

the sneak attack for them that they need to be always on the lookout for is

Corey 51:17

is being uh put into checkmate by the conservatives the

Corey 51:21

will be perpetually looking for something where it

Corey 51:24

it will just make the ndp eat uh

Corey 51:27

uh you know a dairy farm worth of shit if

Corey 51:30

if they are going to stand with the liberals on it and

Corey 51:32

and so the ndp do need to duck and weave a bit they need to stay away from absolute statements that might then result in confidence votes where they're going to have to back down and lose a lot of face uh

Corey 51:43

uh you know they've got to they've got to watch it and

Corey 51:46

and for them in some ways the relevancy that they should be worried about that's

Corey 51:51

that's that's secondary to the gamesmanship the conservatives are going to start orchestrating in a big way come the fall like they are going to be trying to wrong foot the ndp perpetually to

Corey 52:01

to create a situation where an election is more likely as long as the polls are like this you can bet that's going to be the conservative strategy. The NDP don't

Corey 52:09

don't want to fall for it because of the government that goes down in that way. And NDP bringing down a liberal government, that's a very risky situation for the NDP because

Corey 52:18

because a lot of their, you

Corey 52:21

you know, not partisans, but supporters might say, well,

Corey 52:24

well, I guess if I want the liberal government to stay, I better vote liberal this time.

Zain 52:28

Carter, I didn't give you a fair shake on the NDP, although I railroaded. When do I ever get a

Carter 52:33

a fair shake you never get a fair shake right

Zain 52:36

right now literally right fucking now i'm going back to you i'm circling back i'm letting you peek at cory's answer i'm letting you make it better i'm giving you a opportunity to hit it out of the park stephen

Zain 52:50

sneak attack for the federal ndp what do you think it is well

Carter 52:53

i think it's already happened they already agreed to it when they agreed to this stupid agreement with the trudeau liberals they put themselves in a position where they lost all their relevance. They've lost the room to play. Corey has just described how they've lost their ability to move back and

Carter 53:11

and forth and ask for new things. They've asked for everything. They're going to get everything. And now the conservatives get to be the only players on the field. So I disagree with

Carter 53:20

Corey agreed with me and said that the NDP are caught flat-footed because of the agreement that they signed months ago, which I was correct in saying

Carter 53:28

was a stupid agreement. Court.

Corey 53:30

Court. What they need to be careful about is an issue that the conservatives can put them on the wrong, like the

Corey 53:37

the conservatives are trying to create different wedges. The NDP are more than able to continue

Corey 53:42

continue to say, hmm, I don't think the liberals have done that well enough. Hmm, there's this other thing I'm concerned about that the liberals haven't done, as long as it plays to their advantage and it makes people more likely to vote for them. But the risk that they have is the conservatives finding issues that create divides that are not helpful to them, that all of a sudden they feel because of a previous statement or because of their standing with their base, they've got to be wrong-footed in some way, shape, or form. And this stuff happens all the time, and

Corey 54:07

and it happens more often when people are making half-cocked absolute statements. So the NDP just need to be very careful not to be led down the garden path by

Corey 54:15

by the conservatives. It

Corey 54:16

It doesn't mean they can't yank the liberals' chains whenever they see the need.

Carter 54:20

Yeah, they can't because they already signed the deal.

Carter 54:23

carter can i move it

Corey 54:24

open to interpretation but yeah

Carter 54:26

yeah cory's wrong i'm right move on

Zain 54:29

carter let's move it provincially you know what let's stick with ndp a home province alberta ndp um

Zain 54:36

you know they they've got the the obvious sort of pathway to victory with a new leader perhaps as their focus what is the non-obvious what is the surprise what is a sneak attack thing that the provincial ndp needs to be aware of the

Carter 54:49

the fact that they're trying to win every every battle every day There's never, ever been an army that goes to war that tries to win on every front at all times. You absolutely must make strategic choices. And when you look at what the NDP is talking about on a daily basis, they

Carter 55:05

they are leaping from issue to issue with

Carter 55:09

structural connection between these issues. It's weak.

Carter 55:15

What you need to do over the summer is repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat, repeat. repeat that is what you need to do over the summer because over the summer no one is paying attention they're

Carter 55:25

they're out doing outside things even you zane have bought outs or outside camping chairs i don't understand why you don't understand well

Zain 55:32

well yeah we'll use them in the living room in fact they make really nice uh reading chairs in the living room we'll probably use them there carter so thank you for asking thank you for noticing uh what are you spending

Carter 55:41

spending your dividends from the strategists on because those camping chairs will

Zain 55:45

will not feel outside well they will not see

Zain 55:48

see a single speck of dirt on them go

Carter 55:50

my uh my point is simply this uh people aren't paying attention and you must repeat repeat repeat repeat repeat do

Carter 55:56

do you see what i just did there some may some people may notice for example even our own numbering system right now is 999.99999 why because we're keeping your fucking attention that's why it's summer it's summer right we got to keep you clinging to this idea that at one point there will be a 1000 that's

Carter 56:15

that's why we're here that's why why we're here is to teach you guys the big lessons in small ways and that's what we've done we've done that through our numbering and that's what we need to teach the ndp stop doing a fucking issue a day pick two issues three issues and do them for the whole summer or i will come up to edmonton and i will rip your arms off and i will beat you about the head because you will continue you will lose if you continue to do this to do it this way does

Zain 56:40

just mark it a 56 minute mark Stephen Carter chose violence. Excellent. Corey, the

Zain 56:50

They're surprised. They're sneak. They're low burn, slow burn item they need to be aware of. What is it?

Corey 56:57

Yeah. So I want to talk a little bit about Carter's thing before going to a different thing here.

Corey 57:03

I don't entirely disagree with sort of the cornerstone of the critique. I think he has always has gone overboard in his interpretation of it. And I also think there's

Corey 57:13

there's a reality that as an opposition party, you're always trying to get into the news in certain ways. But they do need to make, even if the connection is clear to them, I don't think it's clear to me. And it's certainly not going to be clear to voters how some of these day on, day

Corey 57:27

day out concerns are laddering up into the story about the NDP. And I'm going to pick an example today I saw just before we started here, which was like

Corey 57:35

like an inquiry into the beef prices going up. and you know people are really far behind and uh you know they're going to go into even more debt buying beef right

Corey 57:47

couple of things immediately there

Corey 57:49

there right uh that uh you can give them style points or take them away but certainly they were choices go

Corey 57:54

go into even more debt suggests they're trying to create a very gray economic picture out there in the province of alberta right things are dismal right now not

Corey 58:03

not really sure that's where people are so necessarily feeling in this oil in this oil province certainly we do have high gas prices but you

Corey 58:12

you know i i actually think that uh you know it feels probably better here relative to times past i'm not i'm not 100 sure about that but there's something to be said about making your own weather but

Corey 58:20

but the idea of like an inquiry into beef prices is

Corey 58:25

part of a ladder up into like an affordability concern is

Corey 58:28

is that about cronyism is this going somewhere or this suggestion that that because there's so few beef producers, there's some sort of malfeasance going on? I don't really know. And then once we get to that affordability concern, do

Corey 58:40

do we think, and

Corey 58:41

and this is rhetorical to a point, what

Corey 58:45

what does the data say about affordability? Do people trust the NDP to help with affordability more than the conservatives? Is it the top issue at this point? It's been for a while, so I don't doubt it would be.

Corey 58:56

then how does it go into an overall story about an NDP approach to affordability? Is it going to be just kind of inquiries on private businesses and how's that going to play? I'm not really sure. And I'm not actually even saying any of this is a miss. I'm saying I don't get how it all fits into the story of the NDP. Like what is that narrative that they want to tell at the end of the day? A model that might work for them is like, think of that like advertising

Corey 59:22

advertising sense, that one message. What do you want them to think about the NDP at at the end of the day, think X, one thing, like an NDP government means we're

Corey 59:31

we're prepared for whatever the future brings, right? Like, let's just say that's the one. And maybe underneath being prepared for the future means we

Corey 59:38

we can afford what's happening. And you've got a whole chain of things underneath there. We're

Corey 59:41

We're educated for what's happening. We're, you know, we've got the social supports for what's happening or whatever it is, and then building out those themes underneath.

Corey 59:49

And then perpetually when these things come up, ladder them up.

Corey 59:52

So let's just say it was using that framework and you could say uh

Corey 59:55

uh you know we're really concerned about the price on beef um

Corey 59:58

um this has gotten really out of control again

Corey 1:00:01

again like i struggle to see how it's going to fit in but like because we're concerned about affordability because we know albertans need to be prepared for anything and that's what the albert ndp want to do whatever

Corey 1:00:11

whatever it is but the point is it's got to be making an overall point here but

Corey 1:00:15

but the thing that i actually think they need to be worried about from a sneak attack point of view not me just sort of trying to clean up stephen carter's answer also perfect comes

Corey 1:00:24

comes from like the beef tweet or as an example of it which

Corey 1:00:32

i i know rachel notley and rachel is as true in alberta as they come like you know

Zain 1:00:37

know her family goes

Corey 1:00:38

here she rides a horse she loves a barbecue loves hockey you know all of those stereotypes all of those cliches you would think but whenever the ndp does something like the we're doing a beef inquiry, or let me show you how much I love my hat. I think, boy, this is going to come off as trying a little hard, right? Like it's a little try hard here. And like, it's almost a doth protest too much. And whenever

Corey 1:01:03

whenever the Alberta NDP are trying to show how Albertan they are, I get nervous for

Corey 1:01:08

Like when they were going so hard into pipelines and they're like, well, we got to go into the pipelines because oil and gas is Alberta. And you know, we're here for alberta and all of that i

Corey 1:01:17

i get nervous for them because if like that jingoistic alberta first wrap yourself in that blue flag with the gold crest is your thing is

Corey 1:01:27

is the ndp your party like i want to see the numbers on this like what's your accessible voter universe look like and are they really clamoring for more of this or are they disqualifying you because they don't think you're alberta enough i'm

Corey 1:01:39

i'm really doubtful and maybe i shouldn't be and maybe the data backs this up but

Corey 1:01:44

but i just think like this attempt to sort of wrap in the alberta flag

Corey 1:01:49

never works for me i

Carter 1:01:50

i think that they're trying to appeal to calgary voters and they have such a poor understanding of who the calgary voter is that they think this is how you do it and

Carter 1:01:58

and this is not how you do it that

Carter 1:02:00

that tweet is an excellent example of trying to win a voter that is totally inaccessible to them they

Carter 1:02:05

they are not ever going to get beef producers in

Carter 1:02:07

in the province of alberta Those ranchers are

Carter 1:02:10

are so deeply in the pockets of the UCP. They're not even in the UCP anymore. They've

Carter 1:02:14

They've gone to the Western separatist

Carter 1:02:16

separatist parties. They've gone all the way over to what's

Carter 1:02:19

what's his name? The crazy guy who used to be a member of the, of

Carter 1:02:23

of Danielle Smith's caucus. You know, like it's just, it's gone beyond crazy right now. And they're

Carter 1:02:29

they're trying to win all the voters when they should be trying to win the most.

Zain 1:02:35

I'm going to go to, oh, go ahead, go ahead. But Corey, finish us off with this and I'll go back to Carter for the UCP to finish us off.

Corey 1:02:39

I'll just say this.

Corey 1:02:41

Like, ultimately, it comes down to fundamentals and maybe the data is there. Maybe the data is there. Maybe I'm falling into my own biases as a, you know, a Calgarian who admittedly, inner city, vegetarian,

Corey 1:02:51

vegetarian, works at a university, right? Like, I live in my own bubble too, right?

Corey 1:02:58

I want to see the data. I want to understand what the accessible voter universe is for the NDP, what

Corey 1:03:03

what matters to them, and

Corey 1:03:05

and everything should be mapped to that. To Stephen's point, you're

Corey 1:03:08

you're not trying to win everybody. You're trying to put together a winning coalition.

Zain 1:03:13

Carter, I'm going to go to you for our last one, which is the UCP. What's their sneak attack? They're in a leadership race. They're choosing, frankly, they're choosing a focal point and a direction themselves over the course of the summer. A lot of that activity will take place over the course of the next six weeks. But as they do that, what's

Zain 1:03:31

what's their sneak attack? What's their surprise they need to be aware of, Carter?

Carter 1:03:34

I think they need to be afraid of disallowing a candidate. I think they need to be worried about, you know, taking this hot-headed idea that one of the candidates won't fit or more than one of the candidates should be, the party should be protected from.

Carter 1:03:49

That would be, that's

Carter 1:03:52

that's what happens when your party is weak. when you don't have confidence that your leading contenders can actually win, that's when you start to see these games being played with, well, let's take out this other candidate. And I guess someone that could be serving as an example of this would be Lila here or Raj and Sonny, right? One of these candidates that may

Carter 1:04:18

you know, from the first glance have much of a chance of victory, But they're going to make it difficult for those who do have a chance of victory by bringing up issues and by pointing out things that are embarrassing

Carter 1:04:30

to the core values of the UCP.

Carter 1:04:33

And you may think the best way to manage that is to get rid of one or more of these candidates. And I think that's the exact opposite. If you get rid of one or more of these candidates, you

Carter 1:04:43

you will give license

Carter 1:04:45

license to their position, and you will allow them to

Carter 1:04:48

to be the standard bearers of the thing that becomes the next party that

Carter 1:04:52

that will actually potentially

Carter 1:04:53

potentially be more challenging

Carter 1:04:55

challenging for you in the long run than

Carter 1:04:57

than the NDP is.

Carter 1:04:59

So my view is let them go out losers. Don't let them go out martyrs.

Zain 1:05:05

Corey, your reaction to that and your piece

Zain 1:05:08

piece of strategic advice for the UCP on

Zain 1:05:11

what they should be aware of from a surprise or sneak perspective?

Corey 1:05:15

Yeah, I think that that's all true.

Corey 1:05:19

And one of the things that I think we should all keep our eye on now is that now that Patrick Brown has been excluded

Corey 1:05:26

excluded from a leadership race, we've

Corey 1:05:29

we've crossed a bit of a Rubicon. And

Corey 1:05:31

people are going to see that as a legitimate strategy in more and more leadership races. The disqualification of certain candidates based

Corey 1:05:40

vibes about election acts or strong suggestions, but maybe something short of an ironclad case. case it's

Corey 1:05:47

it's its likelihood of happening more is up now it's kind of like the use of the not withstanding clause the first time you do it you take a

Corey 1:05:53

bit of a drubbing the

Corey 1:05:55

second time you do it everyone's kind of used to it and moved on and

Corey 1:05:59

there is going to be a lot of temptation and a lot of parties and we've got a couple of leadership races going on here to

Corey 1:06:04

to to think about disqualification

Corey 1:06:05

disqualification in those contexts particularly i think in conservative parties because they're going to to be taking the lead of other Conservative parties. Something to watch very carefully.

Corey 1:06:15

That can be very toxic, and that can lead to parties blowing themselves up. And anybody who's thinking about that right now, I'd remind you, we

Corey 1:06:22

we have not yet seen the final chapter of this Patrick Brown affair. We do not know that the Conservative Party of Canada survives this in a way that

Corey 1:06:30

that they are totally unscathed as a result of the decisions that were made by their leadership election organizing committee the

Corey 1:06:37

thing that the ucp

Zain 1:06:37

ucp needs to worry

Corey 1:06:38

worry about here is um they

Corey 1:06:43

they can very easily be tricked into the fact that the polls have started turning back towards them

Corey 1:06:48

because they are being compared you know like they are the conceptual perfect

Corey 1:06:54

perfect ucp leader is what albertans are comparing them to rachel

Corey 1:06:57

rachel notley a very well-known commodity uh you know So, yeah,

Corey 1:07:01

yeah, people in Alberta, very polarized about her, either a lover or hater, right? But everybody knows who Rachel Notley is.

Corey 1:07:08

And so they might say, OK, this this grounds a little firmer than it is, because the reality is when I look at all of the front runners here, I see an awful lot of baggage, an awful lot of baggage that could be thrown back at them in a variety of different ways. And

Corey 1:07:22

And so they should not leave this leadership race feeling

Corey 1:07:26

feeling totally cocksure about themselves. And they should think about how they're going to shore up who they are and what their weaknesses would be. The sneak attack there is

Corey 1:07:35

is that they might be seduced by numbers that show a rebound from the Kenny era and think, problem

Zain 1:07:44

well done carter well done cory that is of course our regularly programmed or regularly scheduled summer uh

Zain 1:07:50

summertime surprise uh episode we go through all of the federal parties we do it at the home base as well nicely done gents let's move it on to our final

Zain 1:07:58

final segment are over under in our lightning round stephen carter we

Zain 1:08:02

we do this for you the entire show even whether you're medicated or not do we do it for you i'm doing pretty

Carter 1:08:07

pretty good right now but i'm not oh

Zain 1:08:09

oh you should you should you You don't know how well you or how good you could feel if you just pop two of those medication again. I mean, it could be a really exciting overrun or anointing. Hashtag not medical

Zain 1:08:20

Yeah, I don't think so.

Corey 1:08:22

your prescription, people. Don't think I

Zain 1:08:24

should. Follow your prescription, Carter. Just a couple of pills and some ivermectin. I mean, it could be a ride for you if you wanted it to be, Carter.

Zain 1:08:31

Carter, overrated or underrated Justin Trudeau's haircut, the political impact of this said

Zain 1:08:38

haircut. haircut? We spent so much time. So I got to ask overrated, underrated,

Carter 1:08:41

underrated. Yeah. I think it's actually going to matter.

Zain 1:08:45

interesting. Throwaway question. Throwaway question. Actually, I need to now that Corey, I now know where Corey is. Uh, and Corey, I've got your answer. Thank you. It's overrated. Carter, why is it, why is it going to have an impact?

Carter 1:08:58

superficial people. We make our decisions based on superficial ideas and we look at people and, And part of that is, you know, how does a person's haircut look?

Carter 1:09:08

And I think it looks like shit.

Carter 1:09:10

So, I mean, maybe he grows it out over the summer and undoes

Carter 1:09:12

undoes it, but that'll be the next story.

Carter 1:09:15

The next story is his disastrous haircut. Is he making the right decisions? Who's he relying on for his decision-making?

Carter 1:09:21

You know, it just spins. And don't, ah,

Corey 1:09:25

weeks, it'll look fine.

Carter 1:09:27

Oh, sure. It'll look fine.

Carter 1:09:28

You know, you've never had hair problems. I've had hair problems.

Zain 1:09:32

tell you that right now.

Zain 1:09:34

Corey, you know, a couple of actually, no, I'm going to go Carter for that one. So I'm going to skip that one over because I want Carter to start that next one. Corey, on a scale of one, you'll see Carter, you'll see why. On a scale of one to 10, Corey, on a scale of one to 10, what do you think of Patrick Brown's strategy of not appearing at the Calgary stampede of the other scheduled events? We talked about this in a previous episode that his thing should have been to just power through, carry on. Just pretend like nothing's wrong. You're still a candidate.

Zain 1:10:07

Instead, what he did is he endorsed Sharae. He said the pathway is slim. And now the rumors are that he might run for mayor of Brampton. Those rumors existed prior to his disqualification. But

Zain 1:10:15

But of his strategy to not power through, at least from a visual and presence perspective, what do you give of that for Patrick Brown over the course of, let's say, the Calgary Stampede and some other summer events?

Corey 1:10:26

I give it a C minus. There's a practical reality, which is he is now out of the race. race so yeah he's got to be thinking about the next moves and it takes an awful lot of bandwidth to go to calgary for a week and answer the same question a

Corey 1:10:39

a trillion times why are you here you're not even in the race i

Corey 1:10:43

mean that's what we call the ross sherman question i believe right i mean it must be exhausting after a while to continue to be dealing with it so

Corey 1:10:50

so you know there's there's that practical reality but then there's also the strategic reality

Corey 1:10:55

reality which is if your plan is to say

Corey 1:10:58

we know our odds are low and we want you all to go support charrette that's

Corey 1:11:02

that's weird like if you're going to then start doing a bunch of events for yourself and say oh

Corey 1:11:07

oh but by the way i think i'm going to lose and therefore you should go support charrette like what a pivot to do yeah yeah

Corey 1:11:13

i understand avoiding all of that messiness carter

Zain 1:11:16

carter what do you think he didn't show up to do his own events he didn't carry on the campaign he wasn't visibly a bunch of places to really make and emphasize the point that i'm fucking powering through regardless of what these powers that be say

Zain 1:11:27

what do you make of that patrick brown strategy on a scale of one to ten i'm

Carter 1:11:31

i'm not a real big fan of it i think that it was a much stronger play to to go through uh like we were recommending you know right

Carter 1:11:39

right after the announcement um

Carter 1:11:41

um but i suspect that practical realities such as some of the ones that cory

Carter 1:11:45

cory alluded to but probably the real one is he no longer had any money um

Carter 1:11:50

if you don't have money and you have no prospect of raising money you you shouldn't be jetting around the country with a small team i mean at some point you have to stop spending money and

Carter 1:12:02

patrick brown probably called the charrette campaign and said do

Carter 1:12:05

do you want me to show up in places with you and the charrette campaign politely said no we prefer not to have shit on our stool on our step um and uh so

Carter 1:12:17

so patrick brown is now launching his you know because it's the mayor cycle right the mayor cycle in ontario is right now he

Carter 1:12:24

he probably needs to get his signatures and wants to make sure that he's still got a paying gig in October.

Zain 1:12:29

Carter, I'm going to start this next one with you. Are you in or out? After hearing Corey's case on how Pierre Polyev could weaponize the early election messaging over the course of the summer, are you in or out on the conservative messaging on an anticipated early election that the liberals might call, despite the fact none of us on this show at least believe is going to happen?

Carter 1:12:53

Are I'm out. I think it's a bad strategy. I think that it

Carter 1:12:56

it puts Pierre in a position where he can perhaps look strong, but that

Carter 1:13:00

that doesn't make it a good strategy.

Carter 1:13:03

The strategy is for Pierre to win. I mean, you're not running this to make one candidate,

Carter 1:13:08

candidate, you're not supposed to be running your party to make one candidate look good.

Carter 1:13:13

based on their behavior, it does

Carter 1:13:14

does seem that that is their modus operandi.

Carter 1:13:19

They shouldn't be playing in the game at this stage. they should let their leadership candidates do that work this is a fundraising ploy probably because you know uh they need to get more money and it's just it's so fucking weak um i just i still i i can't i can't wrap my head around it

Zain 1:13:40

gory in or out on the messaging for the conservatives on this early election that the liberals might call i'm

Corey 1:13:45

i'm out because if they go even a little bit further than where they are right now it

Corey 1:13:50

makes you do some very self-defeating things like nominate candidates years out from an anticipated election

Corey 1:13:58

election just to name like the most blindingly obvious yeah

Corey 1:14:02

pick campaign chairs that you're then either stuck with or they're stuck in the jobs or whatever for many years you can rotate them out but then that creates awkward problems too why

Corey 1:14:11

why would you want to run all of your campaign infrastructure gear it up even in kind of a feigned

Corey 1:14:16

feigned sense, you know, like a feint.

Zain 1:14:23

Corey, final question. I'll start with you. Of the

Zain 1:14:27

the parties we talked about, the five parties, the federal liberals, federal conservatives, federal NDP,

Zain 1:14:34

or the Alberta UCP, which party would you rank at the top of your list in terms of having to be most prepared for something that might surprise them this summer?

Zain 1:14:46

think the federal liberals because

Zain 1:14:49

of the inflation cost of living functioning of government side of things yeah you

Corey 1:14:54

you know and maybe it's it's maybe they've just got bad messengers people carrying their water in ways that are not ultimately constructive but if

Corey 1:15:03

if if they've got whole groups of people out there basically denying there are problems as the problems begin to pile up that will not help them

Zain 1:15:10

carter your response which of the five parties we discuss uh for as As part of our summertime surprise episode, which one of them would you rank at the top to be most prepared, most on watch for over the course of the next six weeks?

Carter 1:15:25

The Alberta NDP. I mean, they're the ones facing an election. You know, you can be caught by a surprise, but you're not going to lose the government if you're the federal liberals. I mean, maybe that is the surprise that we should be worried about.

Carter 1:15:39

Jagmeet Singh deciding that he's going to flip

Carter 1:15:41

flip the world on its head and turn his back on the agreement. But realistically,

Carter 1:15:45

realistically, the only party that's facing an election and

Carter 1:15:50

and a surprise that's really going to undo them, it's the Alberta NDP.

Zain 1:15:57

Interesting response. We're going to leave that episode there. That's a wrap on episode 999.99999 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Velji with me as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan, and we'll see you next time.

Corey 1:16:18

that's it that's the end of the episode we'll be back in two weeks with our next regularly scheduled public episode of the strategist but if you're looking for more why

Corey 1:16:26

why not consider becoming a patron of the strategists at strategistpatreon.com where for as little as six dollars a month you can access all of our patreon exclusive episodes we release a new one even

Corey 1:16:36

even during the summer months once

Corey 1:16:38

once a week and

Corey 1:16:40

and you can access the back catalog as well of everything that

Corey 1:16:44

that we've ever done even

Corey 1:16:45

the stuff we're deeply deeply

Corey 1:16:47

deeply ashamed of you

Corey 1:16:49

can find that for as little as ten dollars a month anyhow

Corey 1:16:54

guess we'll see you later

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