Episode 918: Game Theory

Zain 0:02

This is the Strategist episode 918. My name is Zain Velji. With me as always, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter. Guys, welcome again. Welcome

Zain 0:13

We are here. 9A, the

Zain 0:16

B-track of 918. We're here. We're here again.

Carter 0:20

Yeah. It makes me happy, you having to write two shows. It was the

Corey 0:23

the best show ever. This will be not the best show ever. This will be a tribute. tribute

Zain 0:29

this will be this will be a tribute band to the last show it is true it is it is the b-side as i mentioned earlier on this will be uh the weaker tracks of what was a a legendary uh 918 stephen carter you had of course a performance of a lifetime on episode 918 the original version it

Carter 0:48

it was so good and uh i'm really heartbroken that we lost it so i've i've actually invested in a backup generator for the entire western side of the city so

Carter 0:57

so wonderful i'm pretty excited about it uh

Carter 0:59

uh cory actually is paying for it so when the i didn't even notice yeah

Carter 1:04

yeah i mean i bet you wouldn't yeah yeah it's

Zain 1:07

it's good this is how privatization of our power uh starts this with a random dude on the west side of the city saying he's got a generator that's

Zain 1:15

that's pretty much the story of texas yeah it's uh it's what was that daniel day lewis movie there will be blood yeah

Zain 1:21

yeah it's It's like there will be blood, but for power in Calgary. That's what I feel like Carter is going to ask people to drink milkshakes. That's a reference for – that's a deep cut, by the way. If anyone understands – That's not that deep of a cut. That's

Carter 1:35

That's not – It's a deep cut.

Corey 1:36

cut. Do you get

Carter 1:36

get it? Okay, no. Yes,

Corey 1:37

Yes, we all get it because it was a very popular movie. And that was the biggest line from a very popular

Zain 1:43

popular movie. I'm not seeing

Zain 1:43

seeing it. I don't think Carter gets it. I don't think Carter knows what Drink My Milkshakes is about. well

Carter 1:49

all i can really tell you is there's tick tock with my milkshakes is the punchline and i don't get that one either so i spend most of my time confused you

Carter 2:02

what you guys are talking about what do you want from me cory

Zain 2:04

cory just you're fucking berating me that everyone understands not understanding we are with stephen carter yeah who literally glitched

Zain 2:12

glitched out last show

SPEAKER_03 2:13

show because the system

Corey 2:17

yeah no you just started talking bad about china and your power went out it's just a thing that happened yeah i'm

Carter 2:22

i'm gonna talk bad about china again today i think well

Zain 2:25

let's let's not wait then let's move it on to our first segment say the word guys i want to talk about the word that is occupying ottawa today that is the word genocide, because we are now in a very interesting political situation where members of parliament voted today, when we record on Monday, to label China's treatment of the Uyghur Muslims a genocide and to call on the federal government to formally adopt that position. All of this, of course, without the support of the Liberal cabinet. That's right, the Liberal cabinet entirely entirely abstaining from this conservative motion. There's many things to unpack here, but let's start with the actual motion and the mechanics and the political strategy today. Stephen Carter, let's start with you. The Liberals, not abstaining overall, allowing a free vote. So the Liberals that were there voted, and all of them voted yes, but Cabinet abstained from voting, including the Prime Minister. Mark Garneau was there as, of course, foreign affairs minister and issued a kind of statement, so to speak, saying, I abstain on behalf of the government of Canada. What do you think of this strategy, Carter? Was this what the Trudeau government had to do? Do you feel like this strategy might have some negative repercussions? What do you make of this particular political play?

Carter 3:51

Well, I think that this is an interesting opportunity to have a civics lesson. I'm not sure that the target of this civics lesson should be be the government of China, because I don't think they will care. But you know, this is a non binding motion brought by the conservatives, the people who voted for it, were free to do so without impacting the government in any way. And it is important to note, and this is, again, maybe where the distinction becomes a little bit difficult for some, you know, the House of Commons is not the government, right?

Carter 4:20

right? The government is the cabinet and the prime minister. Now, correct. Correct. That is one of those distinctions without difference, perhaps to to those impacted. And I think the foreign

Carter 4:30

foreign minister, Mark Garneau, is not going to be able to go to China and explain this way because don't worry, the government abstained.

Carter 4:40

But it's still going to be a problem. But it is something that Trudeau,

Carter 4:43

Trudeau, I don't think, had a tremendous choice in. I think that he would have lost this and they would have lost it badly being in a minority parliament anyways. So not offering the opportunity to his MPs to vote on it would have been a significant problem. But now he's got a different significant problem. And the different significant problem is his relationship with China and Canada's relationship with China, which is in real turmoil and certainly didn't get help today. Corey,

Zain 5:13

Corey, you know, you think that the Trudeau government's purpose of having the prime minister and cabinet abstain was to not wear this, was to kind of declare formally and through a comms perspective that we don't support what's about to happen here. Do you think they're successful in doing that today? I

Corey 5:32

I think it's pretty tough when every liberal that was present voted for it for the liberal government to then say, no, no, that's not our position. A little too cute by half. I can understand that diplomacy is a subtle language and that the government of Canada is trying to provide themselves some sort of frame through which they can continue to talk to China about this issue without getting just the wrath of a large

Corey 5:54

large belligerent superpower. superpower uh i get all of that but i just also don't think that i

Corey 6:00

just don't think it's going to work um this is an interesting one abstaining on behalf of a government in a responsible government where the government is responsible to the parliamentary branch that has voted unanimously at least all of those who voted correct it's just a weird one and i just don't think it's going to

Corey 6:18

create the distance that um that they are attempting to create although i also don't know if them all voting for it was a better alternative.

Zain 6:27

Yeah, so this is what I want to talk about is alternatives. Carter, what would you have suggested here today? Do you feel like this strategy, PM, cabinet, abstain, rest of your liberal caucus allowed to free vote, in this case, all voting yes? Was that the right move here? Or would you have recommended something else if your goal is to not upset China, which it seems quite nakedly obvious to us that is the Trudeau government's goal here in many ways?

Carter 6:53

Yeah, I mean, I think that if you're trying not to upset China, then you don't want this motion at all. If you had the power to say no and to stop it, then probably you would have. But I suspect there just wasn't enough votes within caucus. And so sometimes it is easier to lose this particular battle and fight a different war, you know, on a different front. And literally that's, well, not literally, it's not going to be a war, but there's going to be a significant price to be paid by Canada with the passage of this motion. I mean, right now, I think everybody recognizes this is a genocide. The United States, ironically, under Donald Trump, was

Carter 7:36

was probably the, I don't know if they were the first, but certainly the most significant power to declare it a genocide just before Trump left office. us. And Biden's administration is picking up where that left off. So the United States is at least on our side with this. But I think that it would be better for Canada if, you

Carter 7:55

know, everybody came out together and did this together, because... And

Zain 7:59

And sorry, when you mean everyone, you mean like... The

Carter 8:01

The Western European states, I mean, the South American states, obviously, China has tremendous influence around the world. So you're not going to get a, you know, 200 nation unanimous vote or or anything along those lines, but our core allies and the NATO allies would be the ones that you'd be looking for probably first. Condemning this together would certainly be a,

Carter 8:26

well, it would be stronger than standing on our own, which is where I feel like we are right now, because the United States doesn't seem to be standing with us yet. Biden's still figuring out a lot of different things, and this doesn't feel near the top of his problem list.

Zain 8:38

Corey, all things considered, all factors considered, would this have been the recommendation you would have made to the PM if you were advising him today?

Corey 8:47

You know, it's tough, Zane. So this

Corey 8:49

this is a tricky matter when it comes to diplomacy. It's not a tricky matter when it comes to being a human being, right? This is, you know, this is terrible what's going on. And the dictionary definition of genocide is including the deliberate and systematic destruction of a group. It

Corey 9:07

It meets that. The UN Convention definition has a

Corey 9:10

a couple of different bullets, imposing measures to prevent births. We've heard about that. Mental harm to the group, sure. Inflicting terrible conditions. Seems like any three you could make a case on. So, yeah, it is a genocide. side. What is difficult, though, is when you are a country of 37 million people to stand up to a country of 1.4 billion and

Corey 9:31

and say, okay, here we go. And I guess what I would say is that's

Corey 9:37

that's admirable as long as they all mean it. And if this is just a performative vote in the House of Commons and people aren't willing to deal with the consequences, then the

Corey 9:45

the vote was a mistake in general and the government did the right thing by abstaining. But if the government and our elected officials intend to stand up, then I think the government should have voted in agreement. But they have to know what that means, right? And this is my general anxiety about this whole matter. It

Corey 10:04

It feels pretty performative by many parties, and maybe that's not being fair to them. Maybe Aaron O'Toole is really showing just exactly how much he cares about this. Maybe he's putting humanity over country, Because I do believe China will hurt

Corey 10:18

hurt us. They will take their revenge on this economically. Maybe other Canadians will find themselves behind bars. And maybe that's the price we pay for doing good in an unjust world. And maybe it's a fair price.

Corey 10:29

Or maybe it's just a price we need to pay is a better way to put it. It's not a fair price, but it's a price we need to pay.

Corey 10:35

But they better fucking mean it. Like if they are going to take this stand, they better fucking mean it.

Corey 10:41

This is good, because

Zain 10:41

because I want to talk about O'Toole. But before I do, Carter, I've got a question for you. You know, there's a liberal MP that was going around the news networks today, former human rights lawyer, who was absent for the vote. Yeah, Elie Hassi, right? Yeah,

Zain 10:54

exactly. And he's saying that there's been reports that say that the treatment that the Chinese government is imposing upon the Uyghur Muslim population does not meet the bar of genocide. Is that the right message here, that you want someone to go out for your government to start peddling? They weren't there for the vote, you know, maybe has the pedigree and background. background, before we move on to Aaron O'Toole, I want to talk about the Trudeau messaging here, clearly sending a message by him and his cabinet not being there. But then this one seemed like a weird curveball to me. I'm kind of wanting to get your take on that. And then Corey's as well, before we move on to the O'Toole strategy. It feels

Carter 11:32

feels like someone who didn't like the called play, the compromise that was reached, and is now going out and playing a

Carter 11:38

a little bit of freelance. So you

Zain 11:41

you think this is freelance, not PMO directed, so to speak? Well,

Carter 11:45

if it's PMO directed, I mean, you just need to smash your head between a door and a doorstop here to stop the pain because it's just too stupid. Well, no,

Carter 11:51

but the thing is,

Zain 11:52

is, like, the Trudeau government has made some weird, like, issues management plays. That's why I'm not ruling it out. They've

Carter 11:57

They've all been weird. You're exactly right to bring it in because it very well could be a play called by the PMO. It would be a bad play. It would be because, again, the battle now is not for the Canadian public.

Carter 12:09

Let's assume that these 200, I think 269 MPs that voted for this motion. have their fingers on the pulse of the Canadian public, okay?

Carter 12:17

okay? So let's just assume that because it was 269 to zero, right? So if we assume that, then the battle with the Canadian public is over. The only battle that is left is now the battle with the Chinese government. You cannot be trying to change Canada's mind. I mean, I think that maybe you can change Canada's mind if you really want to send your athletes to the Olympics, and I do. I don't think that holding back athletes from the Olympics attains

Carter 12:47

attains anything. Every boycott in world history has been for naught, and it's not up to athletes to play diplomacy. So I think that it's now – like this is just – it doesn't make sense to go and try and change the public's mind now. If you wanted to call that play, you should have called that play three weeks ago and started the idea that this isn't a genocide. genocide um but you know cory i

Carter 13:13

think it's done a very good job of explaining what a genocide is in real terms and uh how this meets it um you know and and this is this is our the reality um so

Carter 13:26

so now we move on to uh the next battle in my mind i i don't think the pmo even this pmo with its relatively significant challenges and communications um i don't think that they would

Carter 13:37

jump onto this and try and change Canadians' minds about is this or is this not a genocide? It is. Now we move forward to what are we going to do about it? And the

Carter 13:47

the thing we should do about it is assemble a world, the

Carter 13:50

the world to support us.

Zain 13:52

Corey, your thoughts on this with this Liberal MP going around the news circuits with his commentary?

Corey 13:58

Well, I agree with a lot of what Stephen said. If it is the intention of the PMO to seed that argument out there, you don't do it with a Liberal MP. p you do it with a third party group or maybe a dozen third party groups uh it just looks messy um again maybe this is part of the strategy maybe they want to be able to point to a liberal who was clearly opposed to to that who was not there and they could say well this but again it just seems too too

Corey 14:24

too clever by half i just don't think it's going to do the job that they want to get done you know i'm going to bleed a bit into your you just mentioned o'toole was up next so So I'm going to bleed a bit into that. There's some interesting game theory going on. And again, let's be charitable. Maybe this was really O'Toole standing by principles. But if

Corey 14:41

if you look at the game theory of it all, for the CPC, it seemed like, you

Corey 14:46

you know, CPC, yes. LPC, no. On this, they can say Trudeau's a hypocrite. This is just another example of him not living up to his principles. We need a better type of leadership. This has been a pretty consistent message since O'Toole became the leader. if it was cpcs lpcs canada's in a very dicey situation and um that's so i mean that's quite a gamble if the cpc is not serious about it see my earlier comments the libs tried to get out of this box though uh in a way that may have actually been the absolute worst i'm not sure again maybe maybe there are reasons that i i'm not a diplomat right and i'm not an expert in international law but i am a pundit so i'm going to have opinions about both of those in the next couple of minutes here this

Corey 15:29

this but this might have been the absolute worst because you have a situation where you are still going to get counted in that very dicey situation and you're going to get the hypocrite charge so instead of managing to checkmate the cpc on this this issue you may have actually

Corey 15:45

taken out your gun and shot yourself in the dick and it remains to be seen

Carter 15:52

not that again but o'toole

Corey 15:54

o'toole o'toole is a big winner in this particular matter at least from a from the point of immediate, proximal politics, he really won today, because the liberals just look confused on this matter at this point.

Zain 16:05

Yeah, Corey, there's something we can do about that gun with that new voluntary buyback program. We'll talk about that in a second.

Zain 16:12

Carter, let's talk about O'Toole. You know, many people are saying, by the way, it's a Trump line I'm going to use, many people are saying, many people, people are saying, everyone's saying this, everyone's saying this, people, people are saying that this was a political home run for O'Toole. would

Zain 16:24

would you agree no

Carter 16:27

uh i disagree because because everybody agreed he loses the authorship right so yeah he brought the motion yeah it was it was something but at the end of the day everybody agreed this is uh this is now it was obvious um because it was it was a unanimous agreement so maybe

Zain 16:45

maybe i'll maybe i'll maybe i'll add a sub question to this he brings it up and And everyone agrees, sure, so perhaps credit is diluted. But does he not put his principal political foe in a box and erode his political brand, where this is supposed to be a liberal government with a leftward march, with a compassionate foreign affairs policy, a compassionate viewpoint of the world? Doesn't it hurt on the core brand basis of the liberals? Perhaps that's my more specific question, Carter. When was

Carter 17:19

was the last time an election was waged on international relations? And don't bring up the NAFTA deal. I was going to just bring up the

Carter 17:26

deal. The NAFTA deal was waged on the internal elements of an international agreement, right? It was all about how we would be perceived in the world and what impacts the NAFTA agreement would have on Canadian workers. Ultimately,

Zain 17:39

Ultimately, it was the— Couldn't you argue this would be the same in some ways? Not at all. Where the impacts of this would be China's response to us and what it means to us? Sure. If China responds unbelievably

Carter 17:48

unbelievably negatively and all of a sudden we're paying three times as much as we did for all those cheap Chinese goods that we were buying, then maybe, I guess. But realistically, I don't think this is going to impact the average Canadian. It may impact some Canadians who are

Carter 18:05

are suddenly detained in China.

Carter 18:08

We've seen that before. um

Carter 18:10

um you know they may not be there may be some visas that are are denied the you know there could be all kinds of ramifications but nothing that's going to impact the vast majority of canadians and i don't see this being the ballot box issue foreign

Carter 18:23

foreign affairs is generally not the ballot box issue it is the impact of foreign affairs at best and more more likely it is about uh pocketbook issues um to

Carter 18:35

to canadians and in this particular case i think that the pandemic as well well but this doesn't reach that level so winning this winning this today i mean i've i've been listening to old episodes of the strategists i don't know people have heard of it it's a good podcast you don't you don't

SPEAKER_03 18:49

don't know how to use your podcast app is this the only thing you could no subscribe

Carter 18:53

subscribe to yeah it's it's um yeah it's all i can listen to and or is it

Carter 18:57

the number of times way better than the number of times the number of times you ask us on scale of uh one to ten on a over under on six how much is this going to impact it and i'm like what the fuck was that issue and it's three weeks later it's three weeks later and we forget the issue

Zain 19:12

issue is that not a lesson for you to say under the whole time you don't even answer the question you don't even

SPEAKER_03 19:17

even have a fucking leg to

Zain 19:17

to stand on i'm moving over to cory okay i'm

Zain 19:19

moving over to cory that

Carter 19:20

makes i see where i went wrong yeah yeah yeah

Carter 19:24

that yeah it's uh you lost credibility i'm sorry

Zain 19:28

lost credibility halfway through that answer cory i'm gonna ask you that question a different way what's higher for a tool here the reward or the risk wow

Corey 19:36

wow that's a good framing of it i think I think the risk – because if he is seriously a contender for prime minister,

Corey 19:42

this could be a – I mean this is almost Chekhov's gun. You can imagine three years from now, Prime Minister O'Toole just bashing his head against the wall because of the thing that – The very

SPEAKER_03 19:51

very pilot blowing up

Corey 19:53

up – Yeah, I know.

Corey 19:54

I've got to calm down here.

Corey 19:58

But I've got to disagree also with Carter. I take his point about international affairs not driving a lot of elections. In fact, I sat here and tried to think about the last time that was a case, and you get into, like,

Corey 20:09

Korea. Well, I don't even know if I would say Iraq War here was. Arguably, maybe. I doubt it. You've got to keep in mind that election was in 2000 and then 2004, and it was a different leader. Interim

Corey 20:24

so, yeah, I mean, China's not the ballot box issue, but character is the ballot box issue, or at least that's what the CPC is trying to make the ballot box issue. Honestly, go back.

Corey 20:32

Command F on every statement from Aaron O'Toole for the past two months, and you're going to see the word character in there talking about Trudeau. And so if he makes Justin Trudeau look like a hypocrite, he is reinforcing his overall point. And so in that sense, yeah, I mean, how do you argue that this is not part of that conversation? It's a proof point. It's not an argument in its own right, but it's a proof. At the

Corey 20:54

the end of the day, was this a home run for O'Toole, or was this, to mix my sports metaphors, an own goal for Trudeau? Probably both. It's hard to say which, but either

Corey 21:05

either way, it's a win for the Conservatives.

Zain 21:08

So tell me about the risk the prime minister faces, Carter. We talked about the risk, or Corey did at least, the risk that O'Toole faces, how this could, I'm not going to get into the violent analogies that he would prefer using, but what was the risk for the prime minister here? Like, is he screwed? Is there a sidestep? Like, we sit here on the day of this vote with all the facts presented that we know of. What's the sidestep here? And is there a maneuver that gets them beyond and past this issue?

Carter 21:41

No, I mean, I don't think the government of China is in a forgiving mood. And I don't think the government of China particularly cares about, you

Carter 21:48

you know, international relationships. I mean, what the government of China has been doing with

Carter 21:53

with the Uyghurs, of course, is despicable. Let's also look at the international agreement that they had with the government of Great Britain and

Carter 22:00

and Hong Kong. You

Carter 22:01

know, to run that as two systems for –

Carter 22:05

I can't remember how long a period was. Fifty

Corey 22:08

Fifty years it was supposed to be, I think. Yeah.

Carter 22:09

Yeah. It's lasted less than half of that. And the government

Carter 22:13

government is essentially now, you know, crushing dissent in one of the world's most important markets. So this is a – you

Carter 22:22

you know, China doesn't give a shit. And China flexes its muscles. And if the world community does not stand united, they just walk right over you. Ask Australia what it's like to be on the wrong side of China where they've found themselves recently. And, you know, I think that we have seen it too with our case of the two Michaels that are being detained because we did the dastardly deed of enforcing an arrest warrant, you

Carter 22:52

you know, from the United States here in Canada. I mean, it was it's it's a very tricky situation because the rules of diplomacy are whatever the rules of the people that you're being diplomatic with. And China is writing their own sets of rules and they don't care about, you know, our little pleasantries. They are going to come in and

Carter 23:15

and run over us. And that's Trudeau's big, big challenge right now. That's why I suspect that he had his government sit out the vote. He's trying to mitigate what he knows is going to be a diplomatic disaster. And I'm sure there's some diplomats right now that have got their head in their hands trying to figure out what their next step is to try and manage a relationship with this giant economy and, in some cases, a giant bully.

Zain 23:43

Corey, the damage for the prime minister, what do you what do you kind of think it is? And do you have any strategic advice for how he thinks about the coming days, weeks and months on this particular issue? Well,

Corey 23:55

I think that the back channels are running like mad right now, as the government tries to address the real politic elements of this that Carter has alluded to.

Corey 24:06

And that's probably the way to keep it. My advice to the Prime Minister is probably now that this issue has largely been resolved with this vote to extricate yourself from this issue. you my advice to Aaron O'Toole is you got your win now you've got to think about the real politic elements of this if you want to be prime minister down the road do not start trying to push a whole bunch of other votes on this particular matter we did have the government of Canada now declare that this uh you

Corey 24:32

you know this massive Chinese economy and you know this 14 trillion dollar economy that has shown more than willingness to uh to go around and um and push around countries it doesn't like let's

Corey 24:46

let's let's be mindful and again like if you were willing to go all the way okay but i also think at that point it's incumbent on you to talk to canadians about what that might entail because that might be more than you know maybe canadians might not find themselves as willing to go all the way if you talk about what some of the consequences might be maybe

Corey 25:03

maybe they will that would be cool if we were i'm just not convinced we are carter

Zain 25:07

carter i'm gonna leave it on the same note that cory added to his trudeau advice which is advice for o'toole what would would you be telling Aaron O'Toole right now is it is it exactly

Zain 25:16

exactly what Corey said which is you got your win don't fucking play with more fire you know paraphrasing or or would you um would you have different advice Corey's

Carter 25:25

Corey's exactly right this is a very dangerous situation I didn't like that it was brought up in the first place um playing domestic politics with international relations is a scary game especially when you're dealing with the 800 pound gorilla of domestic uh you or of international diplomacy. China is a tough market to have a relationship with. And, you know, I would also ask the question, you know, what does this mean moving forward? You know, is O'Toole going to pick up on every genocide, on every issue? I mean, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, there's a lot of international relationships that aren't good right now. The government of Hungary is imposing opposing kind of a totalitarian regime. Are we going to stand up? Is Aaron O'Toole essentially saying that he wants Canada to become an activist nation? We have been in the past, maybe we should be again. But, you

Carter 26:22

you know, I would prefer that be done from the Prime Minister's chair. And if Aaron O'Toole is the Prime Minister, and he brings forward this type of agenda, I will applaud him for it. But I suspect it was for cheap political win. And he didn't give a shit if anybody was was hurt.

Zain 26:39

Corey, you wanted to add something before we wrap up? I

Corey 26:41

I think Carter actually resolved my anxiety with his answer. But I think a genocide is a red line. I think it's reasonable that a country would stand up against genocide. The situation with the Uyghur is just

Corey 26:55

madness, but they better mean it, just to repeat myself again. And if Prime Minister O'Toole, if he becomes so lucky to do that wants to to take on that role that's fine but again our politicians need to be pretty candid with people about what this could potentially mean want

Zain 27:12

want to leave that segment there move it on to our next segment a legendary one it is back gents it is our fine fabulous or fucked it's

Corey 27:24

it's always a classic you

Zain 27:25

you know what i like

Corey 27:25

like most about it what do you like most about i only have three choices it's so easy i can tune out i can just listen to what carter said say the opposite yeah

Zain 27:33

yeah it's great well i'm gonna make your life a little bit harder because i'm adding a fourth choice oh come on i'm

Zain 27:39

i'm adding i'm adding a fourth it is now hold on hold on i

Zain 27:43

yeah okay carter use you got yeah you got a crayon there go ahead you

Zain 27:47

you got a crayon there carter you got one with his kids

Corey 27:49

kids meal today it's

Zain 27:53

let you they let you keep it if you color outside the lines when you're in the restaurant that's the uh that's good nicely done uh fine foolish

Zain 28:01

foolish fabulous or fuck okay

Corey 28:04

okay carter i've got a deal for you uh

Corey 28:07

uh we boycott foolish i'm

Corey 28:11

i'm in okay good excellent

SPEAKER_03 28:15

mess with success move

Zain 28:17

are you are you abstaining for foolish is that what's going on

Carter 28:20

on ask your question ask your little questions hosty well

SPEAKER_03 28:23

well what's what's what's what the Ask a little question, Toasty. We're having a great time here. We're having a great time. Go ahead. You made it tough. You made it difficult. I'm trying to make it spicier for the people. We are boycotting foolish. Bring it on.

Zain 28:35

Stephen Carter, the first one for you, of course. Prime Minister Justin Trudeau says the federal government is launching the long-promised buyback program for what he described as, quote-unquote, assault or assault-style firearms. This buyback program is a voluntary one, of course, as part of a suite of new gun control measures by the federal liberals that they promised in the 2019 election and follows an announcement of an executive order from last may classifying a list of about 1500 quote-unquote assault style weapons stephen carter uh foolish or not no

Carter 29:07

it's fine it's absolutely i pay attention zane i pay attention it's fine um you

Carter 29:15

you know i think that you know this is

Carter 29:17

is posturing This is similar to what O'Toole was doing. Describe

Zain 29:22

Describe the strategy of posturing. I want to understand it a bit more. This

Carter 29:25

This is posturing. So he lists 1,500 different guns that are going to be part of this buyback program, keeping in mind, of course, that we've had significant restrictions on guns in this country for a long time. I'd be really, you know, maybe

Carter 29:39

maybe I'll be wrong, but I'm going to be surprised if he buys back more than 1,500 guns. guns um this isn't this is not the problem that we see in the south of us in the united states and so i think that uh he's he's importing that problem and taking advantage of it by saying that he's going to do this big buyback program because most of us most of us canadians think that that's what the united states should do um so you know we because we are dwarfed by their problems sometimes we think those problems exist up here and and frankly they don't uh so i think think this is absolutely fine it's it's a decent policy uh but it's not going to make any real world difference uh for most canadians so

Zain 30:19

so wait i want to understand you clearly you're saying this is a solution for a problem that doesn't exist so to speak yeah

Carter 30:25

yeah it's not and i don't it could be a bit of a problem but it's not a big problem canada is not not the united states we're not all walking around with aka what is it aka 15 17s i don't know whatever the hell the the ar ar 15s um Kalashnikovs. I don't know, but we don't walk around. We don't have that culture. I mean, this isn't, you know, the protests that happened in Alberta, as vile as they were, no one was walking around in body armor, carrying an AR-15. Just didn't happen.

Zain 30:56

Corey, this announcement by the Trudeau government, fine,

Zain 30:59

fine, foolish, fabulous, or fucked? I think

Corey 31:03

think it's fabulous from a political point of view. I remember a poll from last year on the federal ban on assault style weapons and eight and ten canadians agreed with that eight and ten you

Corey 31:14

you can't get eight and ten canadians to agree the sun rises in the east that's a that's a fantastically high number and over 50 strongly agreed so uh i think anytime they're on this ground they're on pretty solid ground and in fact some of the other components of this such as increased trafficking rules pulled even higher like plus 90 you can't even get 90 to agree gravity of things so i like when they're on this ground they're not losing and i can't help but notice the amplification of some of these really fringe right-wing voices that are very pro-gun and quite tied to the cpc the more that's out there as far as as trudeau is concerned the better because canadians particularly canadians in big cities in these suburban areas around big cities they don't want anything to do with assault weapons americans

Corey 32:01

americans want to get rid of these guns Canadians

Corey 32:05

are shocked that we ever allowed them in the first place. So I just don't think that it can possibly lose for Trudeau unless we create a registry which somehow costs billions of dollars. If he can manage to avoid doing that, I think he's on solid ground.

Zain 32:18

So you're ultimately saying they'd be foolish not to do it is

Zain 32:21

is what I'm hearing you say. Oh, absolutely. So

Zain 32:23

you're great. It's foolish. Foolish not to do it.

SPEAKER_03 32:26

Okay. Okay. Hold on. Thank you. The game is over. Hold on. I have won the episode. One other thing. One other thing I want to mention. here it's

Corey 32:33

it's about carter carter said that he'd be surprised if 1500 are bought that would be a very aggressive response by gun owners because there are estimated

Corey 32:42

estimated almost 200 000 of these weapons out there so you know this could be very expensive by the way it could cost three or four hundred million dollars it's

Carter 32:49

it's not going to cory

Zain 32:50

cory cory do you agree before we move on do you agree with carter's analysis that this is uh an over-exaggerated problem just for the purposes of implementing a solution i think it

Corey 33:02

hard to contextualize when we live next door to the united states where it is such a monstrous problem it is a problem here as well it is not the degree of problem that our neighbors to the south have but compare us to other nations and we got a gun problem we got a lot of guns in this fucking country and probably and you know we're not just talking guns that scare off wildlife on your remote farm or or whatever we're talking weapons designed to kill people at speed so uh i i don't agree with steve and i think we've been very lucky that we haven't had bigger incidents um it's nice as canadians to pat ourselves on the back and you know credit social programs mental health i don't know this canadian ethos but maybe also we're just a little bit lucky and i don't think we should rely on luck i think this is something the government government should do. Now, is

Corey 33:52

is it being amped up for politics? You bet your ass. Doesn't mean it's a bad policy.

Zain 33:57

Corey, I'm going to stick with you for our next one. We move from Justin Trudeau to Jason Kenney, because Alberta Premier Jason Kenney says that despite his province's deep fiscal hole, he has no intention of proposing a provincial sales tax in Thursday's upcoming budget. Quote, unquote, this would be the worst possible time for such a measure, he said last week. week cory hogan what

Zain 34:18

what jason kenney said here is it fine foolish fabulous

Corey 34:22

fabulous or fucked i

Corey 34:23

think it's fine i well let me put it let me give a more nuanced answer here that's

Zain 34:28

that's where foolish is that's where foolish is the nuance no

Corey 34:30

no no no we're gonna find it's

Corey 34:32

it's good it's good yeah the challenge is that

Corey 34:37

alberta has a deficit of its own creation and a decision needs to be made will taxes be raised will spending be cut you would have to cut so much spending out that effectively we don't have k to 12 in order to clear that gap right it's just it's not reasonable that you're going to close it all the way there and growing out of it is going to take too long we've just got too big of a debt well we don't actually even all of a sudden we find ourselves in a bad debt to gdp ratio but it's a relatively new phenomenon um sales

Corey 35:06

sales tax really unpopular though and

Corey 35:08

and uh and when When you think about the politics of it all, I don't think that Jason Kenney is going to lose or gain any votes by making the statement that there will be no tax increase, thus making it fine.

Zain 35:22

Carter, same question to you. Jason Kenney is saying this will be the worst possible time for such a measure, of course, implying the provincial sales tax fine, foolish, fabulous or fucked.

Carter 35:33

I think it's fucked. I think that if he was smart, he'd be, you know, bringing forward some sort of a balanced revenue model. And I don't necessarily mean just a PST, right? I think you could put in a PST and you could reduce income taxes. I think you could put in a PST or

Carter 35:49

or put in a land transfer tax. I think you could reimagine and reinvigorate a health care premium that actually would make sense. Or you could do some sort

Carter 35:59

sort of probate tax. We don't have a probate

Carter 36:01

tax. I mean, these are all taxes that exist in Saskatchewan and British Columbia and Ontario. These are taxes that people pay and they don't get up in arms about them. Is there a great tax? No, people don't like taxes. Turns out people don't like paying taxes. But people do like getting services. People do like having health care and education and post-secondary. And one of these days, I'd like to run a campaign on a very simple slogan.

Carter 36:27

That is, you assholes need to pay for the services you demand.

Carter 36:33

how do you want to pay them? If you don't want to pay PST, then we're going to have to increase your income tax. Line it up. Let's go. Let's go. Because these are the only choices. We can't run a deficit forever even though we have – what is it now, Corey? Is it 13

Carter 36:48

13 of the last 12 years we've run a deficit or is it longer than that? 13

Corey 36:52

13 of the last 12? 13

Carter 36:53

13 of the last 14. 13 of the last 14. Smart ass. Don't be foolish.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

see what i did there cory i

Corey 37:02

i did that it was fabulous yeah

Zain 37:03

you want to jump in cory yeah

Corey 37:05

yeah there are a lot of options i think that ultimately the revenue door needs to be opened here i i would suggest any government wanting to do a sales tax in alberta probably

Corey 37:15

probably signing their own death warrant it would be very bold and um and sales taxes aren't all they're cracked up to be economists love them they do tend to be more regressive than people like to admit when you look at things like like the GST rebate. Well, guess what? Those

Corey 37:29

Those only go to tax filers, and 14% of Canadians are severely delinquent in filing taxes. Lower-income Canadians tend to be overrepresented in that population. So, I

Corey 37:40

I don't know, just be mindful that there are some policy considerations that need to be brought in here, and this might not have the intended effect in a bunch of other areas. You can also be a little more creative. Yes, income tax going up, that's an option. You could also choose to raise it specifically on higher incomes. You could bring in a wealth tax. You could create a luxury tax of some sorts where only very expensive goods, say automobiles that are 200% the average price or in jewelry that is in the same band or something like that, boats, RVs, maybe only these get hit with a sales tax. So there are policy choices out there that may make the tax more complicated, but may also make the tax more digestible.

Zain 38:18

Carter, I'm going to stick with you for our next one. The federal government announced it will extend the Canada recovery benefit eligibility period by an additional 12 weeks. And it also simultaneously is extending the Canada recovery caregiving benefit by that same amount. So more spending from the Trudeau government, more extension of benefits. Fine? Foolish? Fabulous? Or fucked? It's

Carter 38:41

It's fine. I mean, I wanted to say fabulous just because I wanted to get the third one in and then I would have completed all three of your... of your... That's

Zain 38:48

That's not how the game works. This is not a game. It's only a game for me. It's

Carter 38:51

It's not a game

Zain 38:52

People count on this as their cocktail chatter for the next Zoom party. Are

Carter 38:56

Are they drunk all the time? That's what I'm assuming, obviously. So it's fine because at the end of the day, I think the federal government has done a good job in keeping us for the most part whole during an economic disaster and a healthcare disaster. So I think I think this is fine. I think that them extending it another 12 weeks gives me comfort that people will be cared for and be taken care of as this pandemic hopefully comes to an end through the vaccination programs.

Carter 39:27

I think the Trudeau government has done a fine job in making sure that benefits have been available as people have required them. Corey,

Zain 39:33

Corey, same question for you.

Zain 39:35

The federal government extending the Canada Recovery Benefit and the Canada Recovery Caregiving Benefit by additional 12 weeks. More money, more money to Canadians, but more spending. Fine, foolish, fabulous, or fucked? It's fine.

Corey 39:49

More money, but more problems. You're going to have to pay that bill eventually. But still, they didn't have any other choice. If they had dropped the benefits before we were out of this, they would have been exacerbating their problems on vaccines. And I think rightly Canadians would say, what in the world are you doing?

Zain 40:04

I'm going to move it on to our next one, Corey, and I'm going to stick with you once again, still with the federal government. Introducing a new bill, Bills on Bills, this one to repeal mandatory minimum penalties for certain drug offenses. Penalties, the liberals say, have been disproportionately harming Indigenous and Black offenders for years. The reforms contained in Bill C-22 include repealing mandatory minimum penalties for 14 of the 67 offenses to which they currently apply, allowing for greater use of conditional sentence orders and requiring police and prosecutors to consider alternative measures such as diversion to addiction treatment programs for simple possession of drugs. this new policy this new bill i should say by the liberals uh telegraphed for a while i should say as well fine foolish fabulous or fucked i

Corey 40:51

think it's fine it's the kind of thing that the people who don't like the liberals will talk about until the end of time they'll think it's getting soft on crime and you're going to see it in certain right-wing spheres but a

Corey 41:01

a i think a lot of other people will see the compassion in it it's it's on brand for the trudeau government and also So, B, it's good policy. It gives discretion back to judges, and they can look at the particulars of the case, and they can say this is what is required. Ultimately, our entire justice system is based on the common law, and it's based on looking at the various matters at hand and trying to determine what you're supposed to do. Whenever we try to legislate these things, I feel like we take all of the nuance out of it, and that nuance is, in

Corey 41:32

in my opinion, a strength of our system. right when you look at criminal codes in other countries where everything's delineated

Corey 41:38

that's more challenging i i like the common law so i think um i think it's fine i i don't think it's going to change anybody's opinions it's

Corey 41:48

it's good though carter

Zain 41:49

carter the federal government introducing a new bill to repeal mandatory minimum penalties uh including all the context i laid out for cory up front fine foolish fabulous fucked which one is it i

Carter 42:00

i think this is fabulous um mandatory Mandatory minimums, and especially on drug

Carter 42:05

drug-related crimes, have been nothing but trouble. And mandatory minimums in general, as mentioned in your intro, do disproportionately impact those who are disadvantaged in society. And so as a result, they're unfair. So getting rid of them, allowing judges to do what they're supposed to do, which is weigh the circumstances and come up with a solution. um no one was been served by mandatory minimums uh the taxpayer hasn't been served the people who've been who've been put away in jail haven't been served this is an a great bill that frankly is late in coming uh for what uh the justin trudeau government has been talking about and uh and and is is really the promise of the just and true government i think it's fabulous garter

Zain 42:53

garter moving on to the next one i'm starting with you canada vowed earlier actually last week to make Facebook pay for news content, seeking allies in the media battle with the tech giants, pledging not to back down if the social media platform shuts off the country's news, as it did in Australia. Heritage Minister Stephen Gilboa, who's in charge of crafting this legislation here in Canada, said Facebook is condemned, and Canada would not be deterred in passing similar legislation as Australia. So, fine,

Zain 43:30

fine, foolish, fabulous, or fucked? The Trudeau government doubled down on this legislation to make Facebook pay for news content.

Carter 43:40

This is fabulous for the Canadian government. It is fucked for Facebook. The reason is that Facebook's reaction to what Australia did to just pull, I mean, essentially the nuclear option and shut down their service to all news providers providers, that was an overreaction, but basically just dared the rest of Western governments to do the exact same thing to them. I mean, whoever's in charge of government relations at Facebook, they made some really bad choices over the last couple of weeks. And now it's going to result in this type of legislation popping up across the Western world, if you will. And I think it's going to be fabulous. Now, is this the right piece of legislation? Maybe not. I mean, I think that we could have a long conversation about the problems and pitfalls of of facebook um but i think that this sends a message to facebook that regulation's coming um and i do think that they need to be regulated the the the growth of fake news is 100 related to um the the growth of facebook uh so those things are tied together and they have been choking out uh real news by essentially forcing the bankruptcy of uh you

Carter 44:58

you know and and laying off of reporters across the news spectrum so this is uh this is fabulous i'm excited cory

Zain 45:05

cory same question to you canada doubling down on their efforts to make facebook pay for news content despite what happened in australia fine foolish fabulous or fucked zane

Corey 45:18

zane i'd like to say this was foolish oh

Zain 45:23

own goal sold us out it's

Corey 45:26

it's game theory this is clearly your last question carter didn't get a chance i win um clearly not my last question i've got what happened okay um

Zain 45:34

um but trust me i think you want to say foolish for that yeah

Corey 45:36

yeah i do want to i want to say this one's foolish so news has a problem but that problem predates social media Facebook has a problem, a

Corey 45:44

a big problem that's destroying Western civilization. I am less convinced that Facebook's problem is the news problem. In fact, what Carter said, I think reinforces this point. Do we really want less real news on social media if they have to end up paying for this news? I feel like we're confusing these issues pretty deeply, and people just want to take their pound of flesh out of Facebook, out of all of the social media networks. But ultimately, yeah,

Corey 46:07

yeah, the news was kind of going through struggles earlier than 2006, right? This is a long-term trend going back to the 90s, which were kind of the zenith of the news media, the print media. so um i

Corey 46:20

i guess what i would say is the

Corey 46:23

the government jumping in on this and creating a bunch of new artifice around this free market is is problematic because there are solutions that the news media could avail themselves with on social media you see them all the time how many times have you seen a wall street journal article shared and you're like oh i'm going to click on that you're like oh fuck paywall okay i guess i'm not going to read that that's

Corey 46:41

that's option open available to everybody but they don't do that because they're addicted to the eyeballs they want people to come They tell themselves this fairy tale of ad revenue and getting them in the door, and ultimately, all this is doing is propping up a failing business model, and the news media needs to find a new business model.

Corey 47:00

making Facebook cut them a check ain't

Corey 47:03

ain't going to solve it in the long term. Ultimately, that becomes you dependent on a policy decision that could go away at a moment's notice.

Zain 47:10

Carter, I feel like there's a retort coming, and I will

Carter 47:14

allow it. I mean, getting people to pay you for your product is a business model.

Carter 47:18

That is a good business model. You know what? You know what we should do? Go ahead. We should try it with a strategist podcast. Yeah, we should run a stuff like that. You fuckers that are listening for free. You're the problem.

Carter 47:28

But, I mean, go ahead. This segment brought to

Corey 47:29

to you by... But charge for it, right? Like, the news media does have that option. There are paywalls all over the place. The facts of the matter are they don't have the courage to put them up because they know that their product is not something people are willing to pay for right now.

Zain 47:43

This segment brought to you by WestJet. Thank you, WestJet, for your ongoing – for

Zain 47:46

for your ongoing – we forgot to mention to you the last seven episodes, which I'm sure is broken or a contractual – I just do it seven times in this episode. Yeah, I'll be fine. I don't even have the copy. So, I mean, they gave – I don't even – WestJet, we fly. That was it. So, go fly on WestJet.

Zain 48:05

Corey, it was not the last question. I have one more for you. Ontario MP Cheryl Gallant,

SPEAKER_03 48:10

Gallant, conservative MP, I

Zain 48:12

Okay, Carter already knows the story, which is

Zain 48:14

good. She was caught on a video giving a speech to the conservatives at Queen's University in Kingston, saying that liberals have become quote-unquote radicals, quote-unquote all illicit drugs to be legal, and finally they want to normalize sexual activity with children. In response, conservative leader Aaron O'Toole, who has been attempting to put a more moderate face on his party, said that liberals are trying to distract from their failure to deliver on COVID-19 vaccines. That was his response to MP Gallant in this situation. I don't want to talk about her. I want to talk about Aaron O'Toole. His response, Corey, fine, foolish, fabulous, or fucked? It's

Corey 48:53

fucked. It just takes one of these things or a couple of these things to entirely undo months of effort to try to look like a moderate, right? This is a trust-building exercise. And Aaron O'Toole puts out a statement in January saying, hey, I'm a moderate. Aaron Aaron O'Toole kicks Derek Sloan out of the party. People start saying, hmm, maybe he is. Maybe, oh, no, there goes Gallant.

Corey 49:13

O'Toole's with her. They're all a bunch of assholes. And you just can destroy all of this goodwill you're attempting to create. Anybody in any kind of industry is going to say, like, trust is the thing that is, you know, the hardest to get and the easiest to lose. And this is a perfect example of that. They are really, really running themselves into the ground with this. And I don't know. No, I mean, the only reason I could see Aaron O'Toole standing with her is he's just worried that if this becomes the standard, this kind of language must be so commonplace in the CPC that he's going to have to end up running out half of his caucus. Yeah.

Corey 49:45

Because otherwise you would cut bait right away, I think, to follow the strategy that he's clearly following. So, fucked. It's definitely fucked.

Zain 49:53

Carter, the O'Toole response, fine, foolish, fabulous, or fucked?

Carter 50:00

Fucked. I mean, it's just bad. It's just bad. It's not foolish because he's choosing this. He's making a decision. The decision has been weighed back and forth, the positives and the negatives, and he has decided that supporting someone with this abhorrent type of view is more beneficial than doing what he did to Derek Sloan and kicking him out of the caucus and watching Derek Sloan wander towards Max Bernier's whack-a-job party. You know what? I'd rather have them over in Max Bernier's party. You're not going to lose the seat. The CPC will still hold most of the seats. You know, is Cheryl Gallant's seat that much at risk? Is the next person that's going to run there as crazy? You know, like, this is bad politics, and it is bad for the party, and it is bad for our country.

Zain 50:54

Carter, what would you have done, by the way, just to be totally clear? Would you have just canned her?

Carter 50:57

her? Demanded an apology.

Carter 50:59

Okay, okay. Demanded an apology. The old things that leaders like Joe Clark and Brian Mulroney used to do when they had their wackadoodles. And Trudeau had them. Pierre Elliott Trudeau had them. And so did Ignatieff. And so did Stéphane Dion. They all had wackadoodle MPs that they just said, that was stupid. Now apologize and keep your job. Don't apologize and off you go.

Zain 51:24

I'm glad the word of the day is wackadoodle. Corey, what would you have done if

Zain 51:29

if you were O'Toole here?

Corey 51:31

I really like Stephen's answer. I think it's simple. I think it's direct. It's the kind of thing that you can, you know, just don't do it again, can basically be the leader message.

Corey 51:42

Wackadoodle is the message of today's word. Yesterday, it was boysenberry. And I'm so sad that people will not hear.

Carter 51:48

hear. Yeah, they don't understand

Corey 51:49

the context of boysenberry.

Zain 51:51

They'll never understand it. that's fine it's their loss yeah

Zain 51:55

yeah we won they lost we did we

Carter 51:57

we we had a great time that

Zain 51:59

that was great yeah

Zain 52:00

oh it sucks to be them let's

Zain 52:01

let's move on to our next segment our next segment

Zain 52:05

the ho down guys here's what ends up happening here's what ends up happening when we start an episode when we start an episode when

Zain 52:16

don't fucking do this to us when

Zain 52:19

when we start an episode with a very serious subject i don't know let me just think like genocide like like genocide i

Zain 52:26

i like to ensure we leave we

Zain 52:29

we leave with some humor we leave with some grace no you leave with us

Carter 52:35

embarrassing ourselves destroying ourselves you dick

Zain 52:39

this segment also brought to you by west jet uh second time here's Here's what the hoedown is. It, of course, celebrates the limerick. Yes, the AABBA form of poetry. And we will be having Stephen and Corey develop one of their own in real time. Here's how it works. I've got seven items on a list. They give me a number between one and seven. I give them their item. And on the fly, they develop their limerick, AABBA structure. Of course, Corey, I want you to go first. Give me your number between 1 and 7. I'll give you your topic. Carter, you can't choose the same number, but have yours in mind, and I'll give you your topic. And then I'll give you 30 seconds to construct your limerick. I will try to fill time somehow. We'll figure that out. But, Corey, give me your number between 1 and 7. Give me 2.

Zain 53:32

is the Conservative Party rejecting

Zain 53:35

rejecting Derek Sloan's appeal to run again. The conservative party rejecting Derek Sloan's appeal to run again.

Zain 53:44

That is your limerick that you are producing in AABBA format. I don't know if you can mute my voice in your ears so you can like John Turturro on Quiz Show. Just practice. Also a deep cut. A deep cut. It was a deeper cut, that's for sure. Slightly deeper. But we know life is a box of chocolates, Carter. Also a deep cut. You haven't seen any movies, so that's a deep cut. These are all quotes from the movie Dave. Oh,

Carter 54:12

Oh, yeah, Dave's the best movie. Dave

Zain 54:14

Dave is an excellent movie. Corey, you've got yours. Stephen Carter, give me a number.

Zain 54:18

Between one and seven, except number two.

Zain 54:23

There is no number eight, Stephen Carter. Okay, six,

Zain 54:30

Ted Cruz took an untimely vacation to Cancun. That is what

Zain 54:33

your limerick is about. out aabba format how calgarian ted cruz took

Zain 54:40

took an untimely vacation to cancun oh

Carter 54:44

oh my god now

Zain 54:45

now to be fair i'm gonna let you guys think for a bit you're

Carter 54:48

you're gonna talk or you're just gonna well

Zain 54:50

well i mean take your earphones off if you'd like and maybe i can spend an intimate moment with the listeners talking about our sponsor for this tonight's episode west jet now west jet west

Zain 55:01

west jet is not Not the local company you think it is. It is actually owned by a massive American hedge fund. This is great.

Zain 55:11

Exposing WestJet, a commercial. Clearly, I've prepared nothing. That is the whole mantra of this show. Stephen Carter is right. Maybe I'll just comment while Stephen Carter writes. He's got one earphone

Zain 55:26

earphone still in. I think assuming he can gain inspiration from the WestJet advertisement, I am currently in the middle of still. Yes, this is still the copy they gave me. Corey. This is the copy.

Zain 55:45

I deliver it well, is what it is. I deliver it really well.

Zain 55:48

Real good work. Corey,

Zain 55:50

think you might be ready to go.

Zain 55:54

Corey Hogan, with his limerick on the conservative party, rejecting Derek Sloan's appeal to run for them again.

Corey 56:03

once was a fascist named sloan his leadership chances were blown his new boss told him your views are so grim from this party you're going to get thrown nicely

Corey 56:11

nicely done thank you cory hogan steven carter

Zain 56:13

carter you of course were not paying attention so this was very very judd turturro quiz show but if you'd know actually how the movie went uh spoiler

Zain 56:22

spoiler alert can i spoil a 1994 movie yeah for

Zain 56:25

yeah i think so you could hear the whole time uh okay carter carter

Zain 56:32

on calgarian ted cruz taking an untimely vacation to cancun there

Carter 56:38

there once was a man named cruz who went to mexico to cruise but ended he went with his fam but ended in a jam there was no doubt this will leave a bruise do

Carter 56:50

do you know how to count give

Carter 56:52

me a fucking break This is a lot. There's like seven, eight.

Carter 56:56

eight. David Carter, Corey

Zain 56:57

Corey Hogan, thank you for that unbelievable limerick. Thank you for completing the whole. Yes, go ahead. It was pretty

Zain 57:06

It was pretty good. It was pretty good. Both of you did very well. Both of us, nine out of ten.

Zain 57:10

Thank you to WestJet, our sponsor, for that segment. Let's move it on to our next segment, our over, under, and our lightning round. Corey, I'm starting with you. On a scale of one to ten, how bad was Stephen's limerick?

Corey 57:22

it was a it was a solid eight and a half that's

Zain 57:25

that's good this is the only time you didn't ask me about the scale starting at one it's good sometimes

Zain 57:29

it doesn't matter carter over under on seven the voluntary buyback strategy by the trudeau government what do you think political upside on over under on seven foolish

SPEAKER_03 57:38

fantastic thank you so much

Zain 57:43

Corey, over on Route 7, the voluntary buyback. Fabulous. Okay,

Zain 57:48

Fuck you, I'm just skipping it. Let's just say we've already done enough of this. Last one, I actually want your serious answers on this. Corey, I'm starting with you. Your one sentence or one word of strategy for Jason Kenney as he heads into the provincial budget here in our home province of Alberta on Thursday. What would you tell him? Either a pep talk or a strategic direction or a message he writes above his office door that he pats just before they head into chambers to give the budget, what would you tell

Zain 58:21

You know, I worked at the government. I

Zain 58:22

did like five budgets. I wish I'd done that. That is from the famous Bill Belichick, New England Patriots. They had a sign that said, do your job. Yeah, you do know. That's a deep cut. I am aware. Thank

SPEAKER_03 58:33

Thank you. We do this for Stephen. it the

SPEAKER_03 58:37

is still going on who lives under a rock who

SPEAKER_03 58:45

and we just do it for him why am i the butt of this joke okay

SPEAKER_03 58:48

well let me you had no idea what was going on and cory is patronizing you're like we fucking know no we don't one of us does not know i don't so

Corey 58:56

so i'm gonna pick up on this zane i'm gonna say the uh the the line for this budget is

Corey 59:02

is do less less of your job. Less is more with this particular budget. We have gone through

Corey 59:09

two crazy years in Alberta, and not all of it is pandemic related. There have been major changes to policy. There have been big tax cuts. There's been fights with every social group that is in this province. Less is more. Do less of your job. Do less and just get get out of this budget don't have any big swings don't have any major new projects let's just have a budget with an enormous deficit like the good old days and try to figure it out a month or two from now because right now there's just too much chaos out there the last couple of months have been too rough on the governing party and if this budget results in another fight with another group i

Corey 59:50

don't know how you come back from that like at a certain point there's just there's There's no people left to start fights with, and they are all going to corner you. And that's when I

Corey 1:00:00

I just found myself stopping myself from doing yet another violent metaphor. But things could get bad for the government. So it's time to do less.

Zain 1:00:09

Belichick, a fashion icon who wore hoodies without sleeves, just so you know, filling in the lines. Yeah, you're pretty much there with that look. Look, Carter, your one line, one sentence, one word, one phrase of advice for Jason Kenney heading into Thursday's budget.

Carter 1:00:25

This is about balance. Don't try and do it all on one side of the ledger.

Carter 1:00:30

Nicely done. It's short, whereas Corey's went for fucking ever. It's

Zain 1:00:35

It's a run-on sentence. It's a run-on sentence. Can't put that above or

Corey 1:00:38

or below. There was a lot of semicolons in it. That's

Zain 1:00:41

We'll leave it there. That's a wrap on Episode 918 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Veldtree. With me, as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan, and we'll see you next time.

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