Transcript
Zain
0:02
This is Strategist episode 913. My name is Zain Velji. With me, as always, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter. Guys, see how I sped through that introduction so you couldn't just trample on it? It was like you were afraid of something. You
Zain
0:12
trample on it? It's
Zain
0:13
It's not like you've trampled on my introductions four times. Don't live with
Corey
0:18
Don't live with fear. When I was younger, Zain, when
Corey
0:21
I was younger, I rented a house. I rented the main floor and basement of a house. The separate entrance went to the upstairs, was rented by my younger sister. her i
Zain
0:28
i love that you just
Zain
0:29
made it about you like automatically no i no triggering i conditioned her
Corey
0:35
so that anytime she would go out on the deck she feared me throwing a bucket of water on her which was i thought a pretty fun game yeah
Corey
0:41
um your reaction to that opening was was very similar to that it brought me back it was a nice memory i
Zain
0:47
i mean i had been accused of fast talking but i feel like i nailed that i felt like there's a good pace it was brisk people already are familiar with the show. They know who you are. I felt like it's a new pace. I want to do things. Carter, how are you doing?
Carter
0:59
I'm good. We've trained our dog that she must be played with immediately following dinner, which is great because she makes you play with her by hiding the ball. And then she looks at you like, where's the ball? Go find the ball. So I'm actually, I think she's trained me the same way that Corey trained his sister.
Carter
1:17
It's working out well.
Zain
1:18
That's good. Now, thank you for making everything related and connected. Carter, Carter, I know before we get started, we wanted to get your Super Bowl picks. What do you think for Sunday? I know you're a big Super Bowl fan, football fan. I know you don't watch all the games, but I know you do tune in. Lay it on us. Who do you have, Carter?
Carter
1:36
It'd be foolish in this situation not to bet with the AFC. It's
Carter
1:40
It's just a stronger division.
Zain
1:44
And Carter, what does the AFC stand for?
Zain
1:49
Okay, and what's the other one?
Carter
1:50
National Football Conference, the NFC.
Zain
1:54
Okay, I like that you almost tripped up on the acronym. Yeah,
Zain
1:59
Okay, anything else to substantiate who the AFC team might be, Carter?
Carter
2:06
There's a guy who keeps playing quarterback.
Zain
2:10
Excellent, excellent. Corey, who do you have for Sunday?
Corey
2:14
I think the Bucs. I don't know why. I think mostly because I don't want to bet against Brady. that just seems like a fool's errand after betting against him for the last couple of weeks. What about you? What
Corey
2:23
What are you thinking?
Zain
2:24
Yeah, I got Brady for 350 and three touchdowns. I'm being much more specific. Carter, that is Tom Brady. Tom Brady plays for the NFC or the AFC?
Carter
2:34
they just name the team after Brady now? Because both of you guys just, like, there's 53 players on an NFL squad, is there not? And you're just talking about...
Zain
2:42
64, 53 at a time. Sorry, yeah. So
Corey
2:46
So thanks for tuning in to our politics podcast. okay this is good this is
Zain
2:49
is good this is really showing my knowledge i don't know why you're trying to beat us through everything today hang on this is knowledgeable so i
Carter
2:55
i can bet against you too and
Carter
2:57
and i can take the the the afc team whoever they are and i could i could win so
Carter
3:04
so i am now predicting that the afc team is going to win by at least three points the
Zain
3:11
the yes the sure and the The AFC team is the Kansas City Chiefs.
Zain
3:19
Yep. That's exciting. Corey,
Zain
3:21
Corey, this was useful. This was useful to the people. You know, everyone's going to be talking about the Super Bowl on Sunday. We have given them some incredible fodder, okay? Now they can hit up
Zain
3:29
NFC-AFC conversation starter. You know, they've got stuff. That's a good point. Yeah,
Corey
3:35
Yeah, they can get into an in-depth conversation with a fan about what NFC and AFC stand for, as always happens when we're talking football. that is
Carter
3:43
one fact baby that's all you need one fact you
Zain
3:45
you are you are welcome okay let's move it out to our headlines guys are you ready as
Zain
3:50
we do every thursday we're going to start with some headlines we've got some doozies here let's start with one from cnn missouri state lawmaker charged with selling fake stelsem research treatments and claiming they're a cure for covid19 cory exactly like i said many of these headlines where
Corey
4:09
where do i find them who cares where i find them wait so okay
Corey
4:14
okay so what was the fake part i'm assuming stem cell
Corey
4:17
cell treatments okay but are they real stem cell treatments and he's fakely saying that they cure covet 19 or is it fake all
Carter
4:25
all the way through is
Corey
4:26
is it all first of
Zain
4:27
of all very gendered for you to think it's a he that's a great point it is indeed a she in this case nice i i think these are are stem cell treatments that that are real, but for a virus that these treatments do not cure.
Corey
4:50
mean, everyone's got a side hustle, I guess. Okay,
Corey
4:54
There you go. Carter.
Carter
4:56
I'm a little disappointed I didn't think of it. Of course you didn't. That's really where I'm coming at it from.
Zain
5:03
Listen, Carter, the domestic rights are still on the table. I don't think those have been claimed just yet. So if you would like, this could be yours, right? Calgary is facing a tough economic climb. I'm just saying, right? We're entrepreneurs here. We pull ourselves up by our bootstraps. Let's move it on to our next headline. This one I have to explain to you, and this may not even work, but this is a picture of
Zain
5:26
of a North Dakota state representative who is wearing a Crown Royal mask. No, he's wearing a Crown Royal bag as his face mask as he seems to ask a question at
Zain
5:38
at the state legislature. I think this is this. You have to Google. So you'll have to do a little bit of Googling. I think I sent this to you ahead of time. I may not have. So you guys may also be Googling simultaneously, Stephen and Corey. But explain this to me. On the floor of the state legislature, North Dakota Representative Wayne Trotter wears a Crown Royal bag as a as a mask. Corey, I suspect this is a very strong political statement from Representative Trotter.
Corey
6:06
Yeah, I mean, I guess he looks so I look this up. He looks like a sad horse eating oats. It's a weird
Corey
6:12
weird look. And it's hard to pull off like a badass protest against something when
Corey
6:20
look like you have a very cheap owner on some podunk corner of a farm. but
Carter
6:27
is exactly the point it is he
Zain
6:28
he looks like eeyore with the crown royal bag but you
Carter
6:32
you know what if his opponent is not running an ad that says this is a man has been feeding at the trough for too long i don't even know who it is like that has to be the attack ad this is ridiculous this
Zain
6:43
this this guy does seem and uh once again uh he
Zain
6:47
he does seem 200 years old
Carter
6:48
as the guy who has to speak on behalf of the 200 year old white guys guys this is pathetic even for us even for us i
Zain
6:57
i thought it was i thought it was bring
Carter
7:00
some levity to the show i feel attacked bring some levity bring some knowledge
Zain
7:04
now people be like you know i remember eeyore afc nfc we bring it all together guys okay he's hiding a duck i like
Zain
7:17
like okay here's the thing there
Zain
7:19
there are many ways to position a crowd royal bag but
Zain
7:22
but in this case the crown royal is so visible that it's like he's got sponsored by them this is this is if
Carter
7:29
not sponsored by him they should i mean surely the crown royal uh social media team jumped on this did they not zane i
Zain
7:36
i i don't i don't know i don't know i don't know if their their market of north dakota with their nine people there was saturated enough for the influencer campaign that they needed uh okay let's move it on to our next headline this one comes to to us from IndieWire. Sasha Baron-Cohen says, I will hire Rudy Giuliani to contest the Golden Globes if I don't win for Borat.
Corey
7:59
Rudy's going to take that case, too. No, I think he will.
Zain
8:02
day. I think he needs that case. I don't think he's getting paid for any of the other cases. Yeah, Carter, anything else to substantiate before I move on?
Carter
8:11
No, I'm just really pleased that, you
Carter
8:13
you know, Rudy Giuliani is getting some payback after his uh his just you know repositioning himself on the bed situation this is this is a repositioning
Carter
8:23
yeah this is a really good state this is a step forward for rudy and i'm happy for uh
Corey
8:29
cory anything before i move it on i
Corey
8:31
i just i'm not paying that guy's hotel per dm if i'm exactly let's
Zain
8:35
let's move it on to our next headline this one comes to us from cnn as well stop Stop fucking selling Wall Street bets. Redditors go ballistic over GameStop's sinking share price, Corey. I think one week later. I don't know if this was on Sunday or if this was last Thursday. But here we are. As expected, the price is going down because people are cashing in. And now some of the folks that were legends last week are now multiple millions of dollars in the metaphorical hole this week. Corey, please, your commentary. Yeah, who could have possibly
Carter
9:13
this? Yeah, I mean, this is so unpredictable.
Corey
9:16
Yeah, the notion that a stock that gets pumped up to $300. But, you know, in all seriousness, I feel
Corey
9:23
feel bad for the people who jumped in at,
Carter
9:28
know that it has nowhere to go but down. How on earth can you be so stupid as to jump in? I mean, it's one thing with the markets that have to cover off the shorts, like the market makers that have to buy it. But the general retail investor that jumped in at $200 thinking this is a fun game deserves to lose every nickel that they put into it because they are too stupid for this game. I
Zain
9:52
I have to be honest. I don't know if this is one fact, Stephen Carter, or if Stephen actually knows anything about this topic. Either way, nicely done. I
Zain
10:02
which of the two it is.
Carter
10:05
I've never been more upset.
Carter
10:07
I've never been more upset.
Corey
10:08
I mean, you use the right
Corey
10:10
Here's why you should have a little bit of sympathy. There's been an awful lot of reporting lately that these Wall Street bastards that you're talking about here, Stephen, have actually been deeply involved in the ride up this roller coaster, getting off at a time that it profits them. People have made hundreds of millions of dollars on this debacle. And the retail investor in many cases is now left holding the bag. It's not that they – yes, they were clouded by greed, but that's the story of every stock misery that's ever existed. it uh but they also got manipulated and taken for a ride and um you
Corey
10:44
you know this is this is an interesting thing for regulators because on one hand it definitely looked like they were managing the system to benefit uh you know wall street uh versus the retail investor but once we've seen the come down here you're starting to see the real consequence of of this this grassroots organizing to do things like this that are so deeply removed from market fundamentals Because you know it's coming back down to earth at a certain point.
Corey
11:10
You know it. And I
Corey
11:12
I feel sorry for these people. They have been manipulated in many cases. And I don't know how you clean this up as a regulator, because you cannot just shut down social media as
Corey
11:21
as much as we would all like to some days.
Zain
11:25
yeah let's move it on to our next headline and guys i don't even know if this headline is going to work so i'm going to read the headline but really the miracle here is the story because i need to talk to you guys about okay this
Zain
11:35
this one comes to us from ctv montreal student tries to contact his online prof only to learn he's dead now on the surface oh my god on the surface i need to to stop me there i need you i need you i
Zain
11:51
need to read no no
Corey
11:53
that's not my nightmare this
Corey
11:55
is now my nightmare hold on hold on i need to read i don't know how
Zain
11:57
how many of our listeners know like i run communications for a university corey you're gonna love this you're gonna love this or this is not gonna air one of the two here we go no one's come face to face with a new reality quite the same as aaron asuini a montreal student who tried to contact his university lecturer this This month, Sweeney attends Concordia University and is taking a course in Canadian art history, taught, of course, by video. But at one point, he had a question, so he looked up his professor to find his email address. Then he got a shock. When I was looking up his name to get his email address, I pulled up his obituary.
Zain
12:33
Here we go. Here's the punchline. Here's the punchline. It turned out that his professor had died nearly two years earlier, and
Zain
12:41
the university never mentioned to students that they were taking his pre-recorded classes.
Zain
12:52
I thought this was my favorite story. Hold on.
Corey
12:55
Hold on. I told you.
Corey
12:57
I told you. I told you. I told you
Corey
12:59
you it was amazing.
Corey
13:00
For two years, there's
Corey
13:02
there's kids that are just kids, adults, young adults. were emailing this yes paying money emailing this guy yeah
Corey
13:11
hey professor i got i just got a little bit of a question about this particular component of art history getting no fucking response thinking
Corey
13:16
thinking what a shit heel wait a minute so were they did they do student like evaluations at the end did they hand out a form and say how how do you rate this this particular i mean
Carter
13:26
mean what does this rate my prof look like right now this die is killing it you know like i i don't know like what the some questions
Zain
13:34
questions are better left researched afterwards i felt like i wanted to stop reading at that point and just let you guys react because that's a headline
Corey
13:44
you register for this course does this guy's name show up next to the court like i have so many questions now about about how this could possibly work all wrong but yeah
Zain
13:53
yeah yeah uh lessons learned i I guess.
Zain
13:59
Lessons taught. Okay, let's move it on to our final headline. This one comes to us also domestically here from the CBC. Canada doesn't know how many more Moderna doses will be delivered or why there are delays.
Zain
14:14
Let's spend a little bit of time on this one. This one is... Well, that's not a funny one. No, it's not a funny one.
Carter
14:19
You're killing the vibe.
Zain
14:19
vibe. It's not. I'm not killing the vibe. I'm balancing the vibe is what I can do. Okay. Right? I'm balancing said vibe. Here we go.
Zain
14:28
Corey, we've talked about vaccines, what, three episodes in a row? It's the only thing, frankly, that we're talking about in Canadian politics. You sent us a note earlier this week saying that you think that we might be in
Zain
14:45
that we are overreacting, that it's overblown, overhyped. Well,
Corey
14:50
Well, that makes it sound like I don't think there's a problem. I think there is a problem. Okay,
Zain
14:53
give us your take. How about you give us your take, and then we can react to this new sort of chapter in the story.
Corey
15:00
So what I sent earlier in the week to the gang was the Globe and Mail front page that was just the stark white, and it had some message about, this is a disaster, and it's all falling apart, and it's never going to work.
Corey
15:11
And I definitely think we've got beyond the number of challenges to be deeply concerned as a citizenry and say, okay, well, what the hell is actually happening here? And what are we learning from this and how we're going to correct on this? All
Corey
15:23
All things that I have some
Corey
15:24
some thoughts on. But, you know, there are people with better thoughts on. But it's
Corey
15:29
it's just struck me that we are still getting vaccines. There are more vaccines coming online. We're still going to be made good in most, like, as far as I know, in the very short term here. And maybe,
Corey
15:40
maybe, maybe people are going a little too far the other way now, you know, with the sky is falling. It's not great. But
Corey
15:46
But when you compare us to basically every other country that either A is not in the EU, or
Corey
15:52
or B does not produce its own vaccines, it's not as though we're a crazy outlier. We're like everybody else just, you know, hat in hand asking for these vaccines to be exported and hoping it will all work out for us. Now, that
Corey
16:04
that doesn't excuse the Canadian government. There are things we could have done. Obviously, the production of vaccines is one of them. Obviously, that's something we're now looking to ramp up by the end of the year. But I do
Corey
16:15
do think we need to calibrate a little. Like, nothing in life is ever as good or as bad as you think it is. And what I would say, veering
Corey
16:23
veering into the political advice here is, if I am the
Corey
16:26
the conservatives, like, just be careful. Like, in many ways, what you're doing is you're deeply lowering expectations going forward.
Corey
16:33
And if everything kind of cycles
Corey
16:35
cycles back and looks okay for Canada, let's not forget, we purchased
Corey
16:38
purchased 10 doses per Canadian, not
Corey
16:41
not just from Moderna and Pfizer, there were a number of other vaccines that will be coming online in the next bit, like this, this could resolve itself. And I sincerely hope it does, obviously, very, very quickly. Um,
Corey
16:53
and I just think you got to be a little careful about going so far, like it becomes almost a chicken little thing at a certain point.
Zain
17:00
Carter, what's your take? Are we, are we perhaps going so far here where we
Zain
17:04
we might be overreacting to the situation?
Carter
17:07
Yeah, I mean, how, how weird it is that the Canadian media are bouncing back and forth, like just watching a pendulum swing. This is what they do. I mean, we do have lots more opportunities and there will be lots more vaccination vaccines available. AstraZeneca is coming on on board here. Looks like fairly soon. You know, Pfizer, Moderna, Johnson and Johnson is looking like their their next one's coming through fairly well. I mean, I think that there are going to be problems through this. I mean, Corey has has returned to trust the public service a number of times. I do trust the public service and I do trust that the government's going to do everything that they can on this. But right now, the CPC
Carter
17:52
CPC and the media are demanding that the Trudeau government do something that they just simply can't do. And
Carter
17:59
And that is to manufacture vaccinations here at home as though we can develop them all by our lonesome. I mean, this is a worldwide effort with the best minds in the game putting it all together. And it wasn't like it just started in January either. Like, these
Carter
18:14
these coronavirus vaccinations started earlier, and the technology has been being worked on for years and years. And this just happens to be, we just happened to get the Corona 19, or COVID-19. The
Carter
18:33
Corona 19 is how many Coronas
Carter
18:34
Coronas I had before this show. That shows.
Carter
18:37
And what, this is nice, you guys are picking on me, it's good. But the point, the point is that there are going to be problems. I agree with Corey in terms of the, you know, what happens when they do come through. I'm still not betting against them being done by September. I'm just betting against them being done by the time they want to call their election in May or June.
Carter
18:57
That's been my position from the beginning. I still think that
Carter
19:00
that come September, they're going to have over delivered on this promise, because keep in mind, the primary promise is that every Canadian that wants a vaccination will be able to receive it by the end of the summer. And that still gives them time to run their 2021 election cycle strategy that they have. So I don't think this is all bad for them. And I certainly don't think that the Conservative Party should be playing this up too much, nor do I think the Globe and Mail should be making as big a deal out of it as they have been. Corey,
Zain
19:27
Corey, do you think these recent chapters that we've seen, we don't know why we don't have Moderna vaccines, we haven't got signed agreements with our EU partners, etc. Do you feel like we're
Zain
19:40
we're also overblown in that sense?
Corey
19:43
there's definitely things the canadian government could be doing better i'm not so sure about the eu one the nature of our relationship with the eu versus some of the countries where there are signed it's just different right and the eu would have a very hard time saying okay canada we're going to sign an agreement with you that you can have these vaccines like sign an agreement not give a verbal okay to it right because
Corey
20:05
because every other country is going to say what the fuck and And then all of a sudden, every country is going to be on that list and that policy won't mean anything at all. Like I think that in order to put the fear of God into these producers, this is exactly what their strategy is, whether it's a good one, whether it's a moral one.
Corey
20:22
Yeah, I would say maybe, probably not, frankly. But the EU is never – well, maybe I shouldn't say never because maybe the Canadian government can get it and just work like crazy to get it. But that's not going to be the first thing they're going to go to. They're not going to, on day one of a policy like that, say, yeah, we'll sign an agreement with Canada. They're just going to release our vaccines, as they've told our prime minister.
Corey
20:44
This is a really rapidly evolving situation, and we're living in the peaks and valleys. And two
Corey
20:49
two weeks ago, two weeks ago, we were saying, why
Corey
20:52
why did Canada pass on 16 million Moderna vaccines? Now we're saying Moderna can't deliver. You know, why were we so reliant on them? It's going to take some time to step back and judge the entire effort here, right? Right. And obviously, this is life and death. This is big. It allows us to leave our houses or not. People are going to be riding
Corey
21:14
riding those peaks. But, you
Corey
21:17
know, five months from now, this may feel very different. We may look back on January and say, wait, there was problems in January. I don't even remember. It will just be sort of buried in the general misery that is COVID-19.
Zain
21:28
Carter, you were going to jump in before we
Carter
21:29
we wrap up. I think that if we have a good summer, if, you know, everybody, if the vaccination is proceeding as we hope it would in May and June, we're very quickly going to forget about January, February. It's just that's our nature. We don't have the capacity to hold anger for that long on an isolated mistake. It really takes a cumulative component of mistake on mistake on mistake for us to remember for longer than a couple of weeks or a couple of months.
Zain
21:58
We'll leave that there. I'm sure lots to revisit coming up in the weeks and months ahead. But let's move it on to our deep dive in our first segment. You don't belong in these parts. Guys, I want to talk about broadly an issue related to political staffing, political
Zain
22:15
political staffing, campaign staffing, political staffers that come from out of town to help support either your election campaign, but let's be more specific for the context of this conversation to help support your premier's office or your minister's offices, to help you support communications? How important is it that the staffers you have as a political leader are familiar with the parts that you operate in, the geographic areas, the communities, the context, the stuff that often you can only soak through osmosis and maybe not bring as context from other parts of the country? And what kind of spurs this conversation is our home province here, where Where former Wild Rose leader and co-founder of the United Conservative Party, Brian Jean, who for those outside of Alberta may not be familiar with, was someone also competing to be leader of the United Conservative Party against Jason Kenney. Long history there that we can get into if you'd like around the kamikaze campaign, etc., etc. Anyways, Brian Jean writes a piece
Zain
23:17
piece in the Calgary Sun where he gives Jason Kenney a bunch of recommendations, including step down as intergovernmental affairs minister, eat healthier and sleep more. We can discuss that if you'd like. But one of the considerations and, you know, recommendations, I should say, he gives them is about his staff. half. And twofold, Albertans want their premiers and ministers' offices to be staffed by grownups who can be trusted to maturely address the issues facing Albertans. You would be well-served if your ministers employed more policy advisors and fewer Twitter warriors. And the second part was really about the staffers themselves. Political advisors are most useful when they have skin in the game. If they haven't lived in Alberta for a while, if they haven't committed to making Alberta their permanent home, they might not be suited for the job. Albertans would be surprised by how many of this government's top staff and bureaucrats aren't from Alberta. So guys, this is the conversation I want to have specific to this point. But before we get there, let's talk about some local politics, some regional Alberta politics for a second. Carter, I'll start with you. What did you make of this Brian Jean op-ed before we double click into the staffer conversation? What did you make of him using the media as the channel? And perhaps what do you think, speculate for us, what do you think this means around perhaps the discord within the larger conservative movement?
Carter
24:39
Well, I think that Brian Jean, being the brilliant political strategist that he is, saw that there was a little bit of flames coming from within the UCP.
Carter
24:47
UCP. And he, being
Carter
24:51
being on the outs with the UCP, thought, you know what, this could be a good time to fan those flames and to give himself a little bit of fun. You know, I don't I don't think there's any point in speculating beyond that. I don't think that Brian Jean's looking for a political comeback within the UCP and creating, you know, a leadership crisis. I don't think anybody's looking to Brian Jean to fill that particular void. But I do think that he looked at this as an opportunity to cause Jason Kenney, a beleaguered premier right now, some additional pain. And he jumped right on it. And I, for one, am a big fan of causing Jason Kenney pain. So good on you, Brian Jean. Just next time, try and, you know, be better. But nonetheless, still, you know, he did try and just cause some local pain.
Zain
25:40
Corey, what do you think of the broader sort of, A, the medium that he used, putting it out as a guest columnist in the Calgary Sun, and secondly, the content that he had in that, what, I don't know, open letter to the premier?
Corey
26:00
from your good friend, Brian. Just from your pal, Brian, the guy that you beat in a leadership contest that is still under RCMP investigation. Just some friendly advice.
Zain
26:09
advice. Right, right. I know your email address, but I also know the email address of the editors at the Calgary Sun.
Corey
26:18
Well, Brian Jean does this shit every now and then. That's the first thing people need to appreciate. Ever since he lost the leadership to Jason Kenney, every now and then, he'll just throw out a column, throw out some weird stuff, make a suggestion that is annoying
Corey
26:34
annoying to the conservatives. He runs these things up the flagpole. He sees if anybody's going to salute. Nobody does. He pulls it down and we move on with our lives. But this was an interesting one for a couple of reasons here. um
Corey
26:47
um one is that like it was just is subtweeting the right word but like it was just it was a
Corey
26:54
an airing dirty laundry but not yeah
Corey
26:56
i could i could tell you there
Corey
26:58
there were so many
Corey
26:59
nods to different rumors about what's going on in the conservative party within that letter that if you know it seemed designed to get people to start asking questions like well is jason kenney taking care of himself is he not showing up on time for caucus and cabinet meetings like what Why would Brian Jean write these things? Like it's designed to propagate gossip. And I will just say stepping back so that I – because I don't want to be in the business of propagating such gossip. Is every time a leader goes through difficulties, you will hear some version of this. Because a political office is like any other workplace, right?
Corey
27:36
Where bad things happen and then stories become retold and then retold and retold. and what becomes like oh did you see the boss he wasn't looking very good this morning we came yeah he he came in a little haggard you know as though he hadn't uh you know slept all night to he hadn't slept all night and he showed up an hour late to cabinet i'm told and like you know i don't know like like
Corey
27:57
like like bullshit spins out of control pretty quickly right i have no doubt that jason kenney's under an immense amount of stress this is an immensely stressful time uh but he took all All of that gossip, all of the things the political class are saying behind curtains, you know, not in an area where you can print it, and just started hinting
Corey
28:14
hinting at it in such a way that you could not possibly miss it. It was almost designed to make people start asking questions. It was also designed to poke on vulnerabilities, you know.
Corey
28:26
lot of conversation as to whether Jason Kenney is listening to the right people. That was basically the thesis of the entire story. I'm not telling you anything you don't know. But
Corey
28:34
the suggestion like you should listen to your brilliant and dedicated caucus and cast aside your premier's office staff, you
Corey
28:43
we've talked a bit about this. But I'm just going to sort of recap ever so slightly. And Carter looks like he's caught in
Carter
28:49
in the area here. Oh, I'm going to jump in. Yeah, this is fun.
Corey
28:52
He – when you're going after a premier, you don't go after a premier first. You go after the staff first because when there's no staff, there's no one to protect the premier.
Zain
29:02
Yeah. Yeah, you're getting rid of all the guards. Carter, you wanted to jump in there. You're nodding your head.
Carter
29:06
Oh, I mean, this is exactly what happens. I mean, this happened to me. It happened to Ron Glenn before me. And ultimately, Stelmack fell because he wouldn't get rid of his chief of staff in no small part. That was the sacrifice that they were asking him to make. And let's be clear, this
Zain
29:20
this is a premier who has let go of his chief of staff recently with
Carter
29:24
So he's a little exposed in
Zain
29:26
in that sense, if I can say.
Carter
29:28
He's on the B team and some may say the C team. In fact, Brian Jean seems to be saying the C-team. So, you know, when you lose these people, there's less people to bash back these rumors. And on top of that, the ones that are left are under threat. You know, they don't know who to trust anymore because someone put a knife in the guy before them. So it is really it's a nerve wracking position to be in. And I see that as someone who who's been in there watching the caucus whip come after me as the as
Carter
29:58
as the staffer was great times. But he could go after me. He couldn't go after the leader. So this
Carter
30:06
this is why the relationship between a premier and his staff or her staff is so important and why we made such a big deal out of Jamie Huckabee, Huckabee, Huckabee, getting let go for traveling to London.
Zain
30:24
Yeah, Corey, jump in here. And I've got a quick observation that I want to throw in, and then we'll move it on to the broader topic. Go ahead.
Corey
30:29
Yeah, yeah. And I'm, you know, the broader topic is, is very interesting. But you, and maybe there's probably some truth to what Brian Jean saying to sort of spoil, you know, my thoughts on this. But this
Corey
30:41
this is a proxy war. This is not really about staff. This is Angola during the Cold War. This is, this is picking a fight with Jason Kenney through picking a fight with his staff. Yeah.
Zain
30:51
Yeah. You know, one of the things I found interesting, and this is, I don't even know if this is an insight, but perhaps an observation I'd love to just get each of your reactions on, was that many of the things that Brian Jean was listing in this, you know, recommendation list could be viewed as and spun as positives if Jason Kenney was getting the outcomes that he said he would, right? right? Your staff are from not from Alberta could easily be spun as you've chosen the best staff from across the country. You look tired and haggard. Well, of course, you work so fucking hard. It's in the middle of a global pandemic, make sure you take care of yourself, right? We saw the opposite of this with Mayor Nenshi during the floods, where he was, you know, high on life and people loved what he was up to. He looked tired and haggard, but people were like, you need to go take a nap. You're working really hard for us. But so I feel like some of these these recommendations and i and like i said this is not an insight as much as an observation could almost be spun the other way around if jason kenney was getting his outcomes that he wanted right like why consult caucus you've got a such a strong premier's office you're able to kind of you know work this mandate that we've given you thanks for doing that like all of this could be spun the other way so i just want to see if there's any reactions to that before i kind of move on to the staffing issue no
Corey
32:00
no i i think you're right zane and it really is one of those things that helps you see this exactly for what it is he chose framings that were designed to damage the guy when he could have done more charitable framings and and and look that's that's he doesn't like him that's fair enough but um the uh the
Corey
32:18
the gene approach um had
Corey
32:21
had no charity in it right it was really designed to to just look at everything through the most negative light possible and you're right he could have written that last sentence about taking care of yourself Saying, Premier, I know you're working really hard. And in fact, he could have said, and I think your staff is letting you down a bit. But he didn't make it about the
Corey
32:40
the failure to Jason Kenney, he made it about the failure, you know, like, ultimately, he may have used some of those words at the start, but it's, it's, it was built for
Corey
32:51
for an outcome. And as long as we're all aware of that, then let's get our popcorn and watch because it's the best show in town. Exactly.
Zain
32:58
Carter, let's talk about the broader issue here. And let's talk about if there's any merit to what Brian Jean says about political advisors having skin in the game, permanently
Zain
33:08
permanently relocating to the province that they work in. First of all, let's put on the table, this is not a practice that is exclusive to conservatives, right? Right. I think every one of us knows. And Carter, maybe I'll get both of you to perhaps examine on the scope of this right before we set the table. But I think we know that almost all political parties do this. So Carter, I'll start with you. Give us a bit of the context. Does this happen with all political parties? I think the answer is yes. What's the extent it's happened in your experience? Did you guys recruit from outside when you were chief of staff? And kind of how do these decisions get made to get us to this point to say, no, rather than going with some local talent that might be a little green. We're going to go find the best conservative staffer out of BC or Ontario or the best NDP staffer out of wherever and house them here within our legislature in Edmonton or Victoria or Toronto or whatnot. So two questions there. A, how widespread is this practice? And B, just some of your experience and what you saw. Carter, I'll start with you first.
Carter
34:10
Well, I don't think that there is a government that is formed that doesn't bring in and one or two or some staffers from outside. When Alison Redford became premier, we brought in my deputy chief of staff, Stephen Shapiro, came from Vancouver. And he brought a different set of eyes. Now, he was from Alberta originally. He'd moved out to the West Coast and came back to work for us. He'd been in the legislature before working with different ministers in a previous life. So he brought back a lot of experience that we desperately wanted to lean on, and we trusted him. Whereas some of the other
Carter
34:48
other people that had been a
Carter
34:50
a part of the legislature, we didn't have relationships with.
Carter
34:53
So we brought in some experience to fill out the bench strength a little bit differently. And then after I left, they brought in a communicator from Ontario who was kind of going back and forth. who uh that was a bit of more of a problematic thing because there's a lot of flights involved because he didn't really move out here um so you're trying to have the best possible people and sometimes the best people are from outside i think that that where
Carter
35:22
where this gets a little bit weird is how many right like what's the right number what's the right ratio um because you know the The NDP of Rachel Notley were strongly criticized for bringing in so many of their chiefs of staff for their ministers from outside of the province. And we didn't we didn't have chiefs of staff when I was I mean, the ministers had executive assistants, but we had mostly our staffers to the ministers were from Alberta. We just had a couple of staff that were from outside. side so there's there's different levels and and somewhere someone gets to draw a line that says bringing in one or two from outside is great but bringing in uh two-thirds of the chiefs of staff is is perhaps less is good less is good
Zain
36:11
nicely done carter no the excellent excellent uh with excellent close i mean that is your strength less is corey give me a second i want to go back to carter tell us you know you talked about your deputy chief of staff explain to us how that that decision was made to bring someone from the outside. And did you ever have that discussion? Was it you as chief of staff for the premier that could just say, this is who I want as talent? Who were the inputs to this? I think that would be really interesting for us to understand. I know your situation is unique to you, but I mean, we get to talk to you about this. So who were the inputs to help you, if anyone, make these decisions of who you wanted to staff and who you wanted to bring from outside?
Carter
36:53
Well, I'd known Stephen for years, for years and years. He'd worked on the, the Sergei Schofield election for the Progressive Conservative Party of Canada under, under whose leadership? I think it was Sharae's. And when I first met him and he was running a campaign and we'd been good friends ever since. And then, but he also knew Alison Redford. And so during the Alison Redford leadership, he came out and helped. And he was at a very stressful time. So when Alison's mother passed away, Stephen was kind of one of the candidate whisperers, to be frank, someone who could talk to the premier and talk to her in a way that is
Carter
37:32
hard. I mean, God, her mother just died, right? So it wasn't like just anybody could do that. And after that, we said, and
Carter
37:39
and I can't remember who made the decision, if it was me or if it was Alison.
Carter
37:42
Alison. I don't think it was a decision made. It was like, yeah, Stephen has to be on the the team because
Carter
37:47
he also helped write our
Carter
37:49
our policy positions for post-secondary education and healthcare. So he was integral to our development of our initiatives. So he was with us in the leadership. And
Carter
38:02
because he was so close to the premier and to me, we saw him as a vital bridge edge uh to bringing him in so it was really a team decision um whereas
Carter
38:14
whereas i think that a lot of other times you know like and this is also staffing our office it wasn't like i was dropping stephen is the chief of staff to the minister of finance um i was dropping him into the office that i was staffing that you were running
Zain
38:29
he was one of your colleagues right right cory i'm gonna before we go into you know whether brian gene has a point here let's once again have you you help us set more context. How widespread in your mind is this practice across the country of bringing staffers from away? And secondly, in your mind, or from your experience, I should say, what have you kind of seen and observed? Because you've also had unique experience in government, albeit from a different angle. What have you seen and observed regarding political staff and talent from outside?
Corey
39:01
Yeah, well, first of all, people need to appreciate there is a professional political class in this country that serve almost like ronin they wander the country and they take on the political jobs that are affiliated with their with their side and uh you know they will jump from you
Corey
39:18
you know they'll work in the manitoba government for a while if they're new democrats and then the bc and then they came to alberta and maybe they'll go to ontario for a campaign and maybe they'll head out to atlanta canada for a while this
Corey
39:28
this happens uh they they become great great deep subject matter experts in politics, in political communications, in political policy. And
Corey
39:39
that's good. That's a valuable skill to have. And there's a reason you bring in these people. It's because they are fucking pros, and they've seen things play out a lot of different ways. Now,
Corey
39:48
that needs to be balanced with what would be in the private sector, sectoral knowledge, right? An understanding of the market that you are serving. And that's where I think political parties can get into trouble and they will often strike a balance depending on what they need at the time. And we mentioned the Notley government got dinged for this when they started. I think it's inevitable when you go from four seats to, I think it was 53, that you are going to have more positions than you have people who have, frankly, the experience to do these jobs, right? They haven't had other political jobs they could work out through. So you're going to have a lot lot of people from outside of Alberta in a situation like that. And I'm going to get to Kenny in a different, because it's a little different in that situation. But these
Corey
40:32
these things can and do shift over time. And the Notley government became a lot more Albertan as time went on, as people proved themselves and as
Corey
40:39
locals really got known for their roles. And, you know, at the end, yeah, sure, her chief of staff was from Ontario, right, was a former national NDP director. But,
Corey
40:50
But, you know, her policy director, her comms director, her caucus comms director, her issues director, her stakeholder director. And, you know, they were all from Alberta, lived in Alberta before this all went on, lived in Alberta after.
Corey
41:02
Her principal secretary was from Alberta, had come back, you know, there were some deep, deep Alberta roots there. And I think people kind of remember the start, but they don't remember how it ended. I'll tell you, when I started, almost no one on her senior staff was from Alberta. By the end, it was, it was Albertans. So that's one thing I would say. The other thing I would say is a
Corey
41:24
connection to a province is a funny thing. And sometimes people do come back to their home province when their home province's government changes because they get excited about the possibilities that might be involved in that. And that was certainly true in some cases for the NDP, certainly true for some cases in the UCP. But here's
Corey
41:40
When Jason Kenney became premier, it's not as though there weren't a ton of people with conservative bona fides who could be involved in Alberta politics. But there was a problem, and that was it was a marriage of the PCs and the Wild Rose. And any time a decision is made to hire one of those people over the other, you're risking a certain factualism, and you've got to balance that all the way out. Well, what's the easiest thing to do in that situation if you happen to be a federal politician with a deep Rolodex?
Corey
42:11
Call your buddy from Ottawa. Call your buddy from Saskatchewan. Call your buddy from British Columbia because they don't have deeply rooted sides in this fight, and they're able to almost come in and be neutral as well as bringing that subject matter.
Corey
42:27
But, you know, where I totally agreed with Brian Jean's column was he said a lot of these staff come in and they have a stereotype of Alberta and it's just not real in the real world. They're more nuanced. I felt that was absolutely true with the New Democrat staff who came in. I felt that was absolutely true with the UCP staff who came in. This province is not the version of it you hear
Corey
42:53
hear about spoken about broadly in downtown Toronto or Vancouver. It's an interesting place. And if you've been listening to the show for a while, I hope at least if we've imparted nothing, I hope it's that, you know, there's deep environmentalism, even within the strands of conservatism that are here. there's this barn building sense that we have to help each other out and work together and yeah we're not you know historically we've not been wild about large um large government interventions but we are pretty big about big government you know we've spent a lot of money on government we we tend to think civil society is very important you have these you know charitable boards that basically run this bloody place because you have volunteers who just cycle around and get involved It is
Corey
43:35
is not this kind of freewheeling, gun-toting, let's just pick the biggest, most right-wing fight possible and win on it. That's not who this province is.
Corey
43:43
And I think both on the left and the right, people sometimes made the mistake. It was, you know, the new Democrats who
Corey
43:49
from away would sometimes think,
Corey
43:52
think, oh, well, we've got to do this because this will be popular with Albertans because I think Albertans are right-wing. And, you know, I would often think to myself, like, well, they elected you, right? Like it's, you seem to be ignoring the best data point you have, which is a data point to the contrary. And I think as well about the UCP supporters who come in, big wave for Jason Kenney, 53%. I think they started to believe the press. This province wanted to go and become like this right wing experiment. experiment and i think we're seeing that it doesn't because
Corey
44:25
because uh there is some serious strife in the province and some very very low approval ratings for the ucp right now carter
Zain
44:34
carter cory brought up this element of stereotypical albertans almost uh treating alberta as a character of itself tell me with that being said do you kind of see that resonance and what do you kind of see the risk of staffers who don't have what cory's called sectoral experience but like the local They haven't lived and been part of this small C or even capital C community. How much of a downside is that when you're a political staffer?
Carter
45:04
well i think actually it's not just about political staffing i mean we we used to be part of a large strategic consulting firm that would fly us around to to
Carter
45:12
to do different pieces of work and uh in some places the fact that we came from away was a good idea and when we pulled our little asses up in new york city they kind of looked at us like who brought the hokey pokes who brought the hokey pokes to the game today that's
Corey
45:26
that's not even true they looked at you like that they thought i was a genius oh
Carter
45:30
oh god give me a break they didn't even invite me if
Carter
45:33
if you could have given me a fucking presentation beyond four minutes in front of the presentation
Corey
45:37
presentation you did fine you did fine and it was a great presentation jesus
Carter
45:40
what a nightmare carter works best when
Zain
45:43
when he doesn't know what the next slide is just
Zain
45:46
just to let you know oh
Carter
45:49
oh it's a game uh anyways i mean some markets respond a little bit better and and we there were many times that we were going to a market and
Carter
45:58
and we'd be like you guys need an outside lens you need to see someone someone from outside must come in here and and re or reorganize the thoughts and the process and then there was a lot of other times like we couldn't even explain to calgary markets what was going on in british columbia because they they you know like some
Carter
46:19
some people just need to hear different things from different people you need to fly in the mckinsey consultants um so the mckinsey can ultimately settle a half a billion dollar lawsuit that's what you sometimes need so it
Carter
46:31
it is you know as it is in political consulting there are certain legends in politics that that do travel around and and uh do fill offices and some lesser known less um uh people who uh
Carter
46:44
uh but i think that the biggest the the biggest complaint isn't that i think the biggest complaint is when you don't even seem to be looking very hard and you just try and bring people in and that's what i think Jason Kenney's problem is. He's never really looked that hard. He went straight away to his Ottawa crew, and he brought them in because they were loyal to him. And ultimately, he's being judged right now on whether or not his team is loyal to Alberta.
Zain
47:10
Corey, you know, both of you have said Jason Kenney or Rachel Notley, ultimately implying this is the Premier and the Premier's office decision. And I want to hit on that a bit, Which is, does it matter? Yeah, like, I think for us, it's clear. But does it matter if
Zain
47:30
if that local context is missing from ministerial offices? Do you feel like there's a downside there as well? Or is this all really, at the end of the day, about the folks in the premier's office? I guess my question at the heart of it is, does it really matter who is staffing a minister when the mandate letters, whether you're the prime minister or the premier, are being directed from one singular spot? Do you just need people who can silently execute in those minister's office and doesn't really matter where the fuck they're from? Like, I'm just kind of curious what your take on that is.
Corey
48:02
Yeah. The whole point of a political staff is to make the person who's in the role bigger
Corey
48:08
bigger and more productive than they otherwise would be. You know, at least in a conventional model, the staff themselves should be neither seen nor heard. You know, it's really about how much shine you can give to the minister, the person who's on the ballot, and you know, the person who's going to carry the reputation of their political party. And I mention this because when you try to think about a minister as being like a superhuman, right, and they look absurdly prodigious. They speak so eloquently because they have speech writers, right? They're everywhere because their schedule is managed down to the minute. They are making phone calls with people and they're so on point because their stakeholder, you
Corey
48:44
you know, support is telling them exactly what this person wants to know and what they want to talk about. They look like a genius. And, you know, politicians run into trouble when they start believing they actually are geniuses and not just representations of many people working together as a bit of an aside.
Corey
49:00
you think of them as that superhuman, what
Corey
49:02
what you need to think is what makes them a well-rounded human. And if you happen to have a minister who knows all of the local context, they're so great with it. They have just this feel for this notion of what is their constituency and what is Alberta or whatever your home province or jurisdiction may be. Then they don't need somebody with what I've termed that kind of sectoral knowledge. They can get the subject matter expert who hopefully covers them off. Maybe this person who knows everything about their community is dog shit at pulling together like a policy thought. Well, then they'll get a brilliant policy director from outside of Alberta.
Corey
49:38
Where you run into problems is when you stack weaknesses together. So a minister who's a little clueless about their constituency, head in the clouds, plus staff member who doesn't understand the constituency, plus another staff member who maybe does but is too weak of a personality to
Corey
49:55
talk about it. And all of a sudden, you've got a recipe for a disaster. So, yes,
Corey
49:59
it absolutely matters who the minister's staff are as well. But I think the reason we tend to think of these things a bit differently from the premier's office and the minister's office is the premier's office is so much bigger. You know, a minister's office has a handful of people.
Corey
50:13
A premier's office is a small army. me and so when you change the tenor of a premier's office in terms of like all of a sudden it's 60 40 versus 40 60 and you've got some key personalities in one place or another it
Corey
50:24
has different dynamics and it has different effects because it's more of a living kind of multi-cellular organism whereas a minister's office in theory revolves around one person and as long as you have a strong minister in theory you should be able to manage some of that detrimental downside carter
Zain
50:40
carter there's there's two items i want to talk to you about i'm just trying to decide which one to go down the first one is political staffers who are also pseudo
Zain
50:50
pseudo celebrities who also have a voice who also trip away like i feel like that's such an interest you wouldn't be familiar with this no um not at all while you were chief of staff i i think that's such a fascinating conversation as to what the right model is so we can go down that track that's the wrong model it's
Carter
51:06
it's the right model
Zain
51:09
I think it's worthy of a larger discussion. I might tease it up here later. But let me go down the second pathway, which is who
Zain
51:17
who should ultimately – I know who does. We just talked about the premier's office decides who ministerial staff are largely, right? Usually it's through the premier's office saying, hey, this is your chief of staff. This maybe is your policy director. Maybe you get to choose who works for you at the constant level. But it's the premier's office. Their hand is very much the blessing that particular folks need.
Zain
51:39
Carter, I guess the simple question is, should it be that way, or should it just be about who the minister is compatible with?
Carter
51:45
It wasn't that way when I was in government.
Carter
51:47
Interesting. Tell us more. The local – or the MLAs and the ministers got to choose their own staff. And I will tell you, across the board, universally, each and every one of them was horrible at choosing their own
Zain
52:04
I didn't know where that was going to land. Yeah, neither did I. They
Carter
52:07
They were tragic. And so I – in 2012, I was running the war room for the conservative – progressive conservative campaign. And we had maybe,
Carter
52:20
maybe, I don't know, 12, 14 people who worked there, half of them female, half of them male. Whenever I needed anything done, with the exception, there was one guy who was excellent, who I think may work at the university now, so I have to be careful. But he, you know, he was excellent. And then there was five or six women who were outstanding. standing. And as soon as we won the election, and the cabinet was named, and the cabinet started to hire their staff, every single male in that room got hired. And exactly none of the women got hired. So we, you know, they not only hired badly, as in the worst staff, and they
Carter
52:57
also... Just to clarify,
Zain
52:57
clarify, this was the ministers who were
Carter
52:59
were hiring directly? The ministers hired their own staff, because at that time, Redford did not have a culture of hiring the staff for the cabinet ministers i'll tell you something we should have because if we would hire the staff for the cabinet ministers we would have seen a lot of the uprisings and a lot of the the the backstabbing that came after us later if we'd been able to put our own chiefs of staff or our own leaders into each of the minister's offices along with a mandate later then we would be able to track against the actual mandate letter instead of whatever offshoot projects they decide to actually run with because we had virtually no control over our academy ministers um despite
Carter
53:38
despite the fact that you know really power emanates from the premier's office so i would have if i could go back in time i would have hired every single staffer and every in every single um minister's offices and if i couldn't do them all i would i would do the communications director and i'd do do the chief of staff, because those are two teams that have to function outside of the minister's offices as well. There is a government agenda that needs to be put through, and those people are the primary communicators and the primary people who are working for the government. I mean, we would expect Biden's team. Biden's team right now has just hired everybody up for Biden's team. He represents the executive. The premier in our system is the executive, and the premier should be hiring as much of the staff as possible.
Zain
54:25
Corey, even if you don't agree, help me make the case as to why a minister should be able to hire their own team.
Corey
54:32
Yeah, well, I think the most obvious reason is that the minister better knows themselves. And if they are a self-aware individual, they should better able understand what they need to be successful as a minister.
Corey
54:46
And they will have greater trust in that staff person as well, because they're not going to feel as though somebody is looking over their shoulder or that the people who report to them don't really report to them it would empower
Corey
54:56
empower them and in theory empowering your staff is a very good thing because it allows them to
Corey
55:03
governments and like any organization are rate limited by decision makers and if you have more decision makers if you have competent ministers who are able to make decisions you
Corey
55:11
you are going to have better government now there was a big qualifier on there though right competent ministers so and i don't mean this like you're a terrible human if you're not a competent minister but it's It's a tough job. It's a big job. It's not a job that pays as well as comparable complex jobs out there in the world. And so not everybody is going to want to jump onto it. And the
Corey
55:30
the problem is that people don't always know their own weaknesses. The problem is sometimes they need somebody looking over their shoulder. And the problem is that's
Corey
55:40
that's not what motivates them all the time. The ability to kind of pick their own adventure. It's often the fact that they know they've got a boss that they've got to keep satisfied here. So, you know,
Corey
55:51
know, I think kind of conceptually and spiritually, I like the idea of ministers choosing their chiefs of staff and their press secretaries.
Corey
56:01
it's a real tough sell because the other thing is they
Corey
56:04
they don't have big
Corey
56:06
big enough shops to have HR departments and like this deep understanding. Well, I mean, they have ministries. They have ministries. This is
Corey
56:14
But this is political staff, and hiring
Corey
56:16
hiring takes a certain expertise, and sussing out who's good takes a certain expertise, and the actual staffing, managing functions take time. And do you really want your minister working
Corey
56:27
working about timesheets? And the answer is obviously no. So in some ways, the centralization of that function liberates the minister to do political roles as well. So it's one of those things that I think ministers will always kind of feel
Corey
56:41
feel a little begrudging about, but it
Corey
56:43
it might be better for them 99 times out of 100.
Zain
56:47
So I've got two final questions for you guys. One is extremely rapid fire, and I'm going to go to you first, Carter. Does Jason Kenney have a problem with too many staffers from outside? Yes or no, in your mind?
Carter
56:59
Nobody has a problem with his staff.
Zain
57:02
Corey, does he have too many? Interesting point, Carter. Corey, does he have a specific problem with too many staffers not from Alberta, Jason Kenney particularly? Yes or no in your mind?
Corey
57:12
I've got to tell you, it wasn't something I noticed, to be honest. I didn't feel when I was there like there were just too many people from away. And some of the people I had the highest regard for, some of the most brilliant people in Kenney's government, were from other provinces. Katie Merrifield immediately springs to mind, of course, who was the director of communications until recently. recently and
Corey
57:33
don't know that tends to be one of those things it's it's that old adage right like if you don't like somebody the way they hold their fork is going to irritate you yeah and i just think we're at the point where people
Corey
57:44
people don't like the way jason kenney holds his fork we
Zain
57:46
we also don't like how stephen carter holds his fork many times on this podcast just he holds it he holds it like someone who supports the nfc and that's what i don't like that's what i don't like about stephen carter carter here let's the final question on this segment you want to jump in afc you sorry Sorry, you like the AFC, right? No,
Carter
58:00
No, you have one more question. Go ahead, do your question. The Kansas City Chiefs
Zain
58:03
Chiefs of Staff, Carter. That is, there
Zain
58:06
you go. I'm tying it all together. Thank
Carter
58:07
Thank you very much. I'm grateful for that. This
Zain
58:09
This is what I do. Carter, your final question to you is, summarize for me. You're leaving the proverbial sort of 30-second memo for your successor as Chief of Staff. How would you let them, you know, how would you, what would be the balancing act? What would be the advice you would give them when they're thinking about staffing as it relates to folks from away, folks from here. You guys may have already said these words, but I want to try to crystallize them into a nugget. Carter, what would that be from your perspective if you were providing some advice to an incoming chief of staff or an incoming premier regarding this?
Carter
58:43
I'd tell them to think of the staffing in the cabinet as three teams. And like any good team, you want to have diversity. You want to have different voices. And sometimes that means having voices from within Alberta. Sometimes it will mean having having voices from outside of Alberta, but you want to have balance. And so the three teams that I would encourage them to think of, I would encourage them to think of the ministers and the cabinet as a specific team. Do you have the diversity? Do you have the diversity of experience for that team to function appropriately? Then I'd say the chiefs of staff are going to be a team on their own. We're going to be working for the ministers to be as effective as possible and to coordinate the business of government as it needs to be coordinated. And then I would suggest that the communications directors need their own team as well. So I would suggest, you know, my advice wouldn't be, you know, hire X percentage of people from outside. My advice would be make sure that each team is reflective of the balance and the variety of skills that you will actually need. No one person is going to have them all. So being able to fill out those teams with the diversity of experience that a modern government operation requires is really your first and foremost requirement.
Zain
59:59
Corey, same final question to you on this segment. The memo or the advice verbally or written that you might provide to someone if they were in the position of making staffing decisions, political staffing decisions for a premier's or a prime minister's office.
Corey
1:00:16
Yeah, you got to balance the system as a whole and you got to balance the system in small ways as well. So when you're thinking about your minister's offices, think about creating a whole minister. This would be the extension of that superhuman I'm talking about there. When you're thinking about your premier's office, think about the ways they're going to be interacting with the system and where you might have too many people from
Corey
1:00:36
from away who might be able to get into a room and make decisions that really require the kind of input that comes from knowing where the bodies are buried in Alberta. Alberta. It can be as funny as I want to pitch this thing. And you're like, yeah, a government did that 15 years ago, and it became a big joke. But you don't know that because you weren't from here, right? So you got to be careful about that.
Corey
1:00:55
So it's just about creating checks and balances yourself and not lulling yourself into kind of looking just at the dashboard metrics, but also understanding the workflows of the place and where you might be setting up blind spots within different workflows.
Zain
1:01:10
We'll leave that segment there. Moving on to our final segment, our over, under, and our lightning round. Stephen Carter, are you ready?
Carter
1:01:17
I am. And just before you start, I'd like to help you guys with a couple of word pronunciations, as you have been rather brutal towards me. So Zane, it's relocating, not relocating, or whatever the hell you say.
Zain
1:01:29
It's an alternate pronunciation.
Carter
1:01:30
Prodigious. Prodigious. There you go. I don't know what the fuck you were saying, Corey, but I wanted to clear things up. Go ahead, Zane. Please return us to our regularly scheduled programming.
Zain
1:01:43
Corey, I'm going to you first. Overrated or underrated local political staffers, staffers that are abreast of the context and the community in the area that they live in, overrated or underrated in your mind?
Corey
1:01:58
Underrated. You absolutely need somebody. We talked about knowing the province. province, you need somebody who knows the province and knows the constituency. One of the one of the skill sets that absolutely must be there in a successful premier's office is the person who knows everything about the jurisdiction that they're in.
Zain
1:02:15
Right, Carter, same questions. You're overrated or underrated. Political staffers, local political staffers, I should say, what do you think?
Carter
1:02:22
Overrated, you're always looking to find the best talent available. And it doesn't matter if they come from winnipeg thank
Zain
1:02:30
you for undoing the entire podcast all right carter i'm gonna i'm gonna stick with you uh thank you for so annoying i
Zain
1:02:41
am yeah carter on a scale of one to ten what effects will the brian jean cory
Zain
1:02:46
cory what did you go did you call it a trial balloon did you cory what did you say that you had a word for it that i liked and it wasn't a trial balloon loan that he it was prodigious fuck
Corey
1:02:57
man it was an article about relocating yeah
Zain
1:02:59
yeah thank you thank you should
Zain
1:03:04
should i just end the show this is
Carter
1:03:06
they tune in for this is what they liked
Zain
1:03:09
carter on a on a scale of one to ten the impact that the brian jean article and war of words will have on on jason kenney um and and his government going forward what do you think there's
Carter
1:03:20
there's nothing There's nothing below one in this scale? There's nothing below one, but has that ever stopped you? Then it is a zero.
Corey
1:03:28
a zero for you?
Corey
1:03:30
It's cause and effect, right? This is an effect. It's not a cause. It's not going to create more problems for Jason Kenney, but this article is out there because there are problems for Jason Kenney. And Brian Jean, when
Corey
1:03:41
when he sees this, every now and then he likes to say, hey, me? You ready for me to be leader yet? No? Okay. Yeah. And he moves on with his life. But this,
Corey
1:03:50
this, in its own right, will not propagate things further. I don't think it's going to change the conversation. Corey,
Zain
1:03:55
Corey, is it fair to say that he would be the next in line, like the heir apparent? No.
Zain
1:04:00
No, okay, interesting. Let's discuss that later. But it is interesting that both of you said no. He clearly thinks he is, but I think that that is a discussion for later on. Mark two
Corey
1:04:11
two episodes. He who kills the king does not get the crown. That's just a truism. I'm
Zain
1:04:15
I'm glad you guys are on it. Okay, Corey, I'm going to stick with you. I'm going to go three questions in a row about the Trudeau COVID vaccine handling three of the chapters, so to speak, that I mentioned earlier. And I want you to give me an over under on five. Number one, the political impact that they're going to have over five, pretty
Zain
1:04:33
pretty high under five, who cares? Over under on five? Who cares? Who cares, Corey? why don't
Corey
1:04:38
don't you just have two things on the scale why don't you say it's good or it's bad no
Carter
1:04:42
no no i like where he's gone over
Corey
1:04:44
five it's just overly ornate like i don't understand five is not the middle of the scale say how many times do we have to go over this when it starts at one you're such
Zain
1:04:54
prodigious piece of shit
Zain
1:04:55
you know that right
Zain
1:04:58
cory over on i'm not changing the rules for you i don't care how numbers work over under on five okay i
Zain
1:05:04
didn't say listen whatever i tell you over under on five i don't say that zero i don't say that one is the start of the scale just so you know you're making that assumption no
Carter
1:05:11
no we're good yeah carter's good carter's good he's excellent forward press forward saying i
Zain
1:05:16
i just need to explain this to you and the listeners every single time jesus christ stop sending me your hate mail uh cory over under on five covax the federal government dipping into the covax fund uh which which was perhaps not intended for them, perhaps intended for other
Zain
1:05:32
other countries to secure vaccines. How big of a deal is that for the Trudeau government over under on five?
Corey
1:05:39
think it's over on the zero to 100 scale you've presented, but I don't think it's a particularly big deal.
Zain
1:05:45
Carter, this is the most excruciating five minutes. You know, we do this for no money, no pay, no sponsors. WestJet dropped us, Carter, over under on five.
Carter
1:05:57
It's insufficient, Zane. um i mean it really it's just it's like incomplete work they they the
Carter
1:06:03
the reality is they were trying to do everything they could for canadians and in so doing uh they screwed a few people who aren't canadians so it'll it'll work its way out they
Zain
1:06:13
they try to do it out for canada screwed a few people that were not canadians thanks carter over under on five uh the the lack of moderna vaccine showing up and not knowing exactly where they are and why they're they're late over under on five on that one for the trudeau government carter it's
Carter
1:06:27
it's over um not because of it in and of itself but we've talked about how uh you know problems are adding up to problems on you know problems on problems on problems for jason kenney uh the same thing is starting to happen with trudeau he doesn't have much uh runway left he's got to get the the vaccination program in the air cory
Zain
1:06:45
cory same question to you over under on five on the moderna episode that we've seen most recently it's
Corey
1:06:51
it's just too soon to say until we get a sense as to whether these numbers are going to net out clean in the end i can't tell and i do think it matters because i don't think that people are
Corey
1:07:02
are going if this if this is just really bad for three weeks and then great for the three weeks after that it's not a problem it's just not a problem and
Zain
1:07:10
and the final one cory on the trudeau government over on round five on the lack of written eu agreements i think you've alluded to this earlier on when you were talking about uh the article but what do you think over on round five for that one
Corey
1:07:23
i i think it's under yeah
Corey
1:07:25
garter assuming that the scale again is you know yeah zero to 100 yeah it is i don't think it's a very big deal
Carter
1:07:30
deal uh cory is correct uh both on that and the scale being zero to 100 i'm
Zain
1:07:36
i'm just now adding questions because i'm now relishing the opportunity uh and i just feel like people should be listening to this and and experiencing the pain that i am right right now uh because they
Carter
1:07:46
do like it when you suffer that is some of their that is the feedback we get frequently you know stephen
Zain
1:07:52
carter let's let's let's go here overrated underrated ministers hiring their own political staffers what do you think i
Carter
1:07:58
think it's overrated i think that the premier's office should have more control cory
Zain
1:08:01
cory overrated underrated ministers hiring their own political staff doesn't
Corey
1:08:06
doesn't happen anymore what
Corey
1:08:07
what kind of nonsense question is this does it actually
Zain
1:08:09
actually not happen anymore do
Corey
1:08:11
we know of a jurisdiction that
Zain
1:08:13
that that that is i think the red for government was
Carter
1:08:15
was the last stupid ass government that didn't that allowed it uh but who knows cory
Zain
1:08:22
cory i'm going to stick with you uh over under on six for brand canada um the the the uh designation of the proud boys as a tourist organization in this country what does this do for our overall sort Sort of brand over under on six.
Corey
1:08:39
I don't think it has a significant effect on our brand. I don't think that people outside of Canada will be talking about it for more than a day.
Zain
1:08:46
Carter, over under on six on brand Canada. Designation of the Proud Boys as a terrorist organization.
Carter
1:08:51
Well, I slept better last night, Zane. I don't think it will matter. I don't think it has any impact.
Zain
1:08:57
We will leave it there. That is episode 913 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Velji. With me, as always, the annoying Stephen Carter and the prodigious Corey Hogan. We'll see you next time.
Zain
1:09:15
don't even know what prodigious means.
Carter
1:09:17
It's okay. It worked.
Carter
1:09:23
the Strategists. This is the Strategists.
Zain
1:09:31
pretty good except the whole 913 like you didn't know that i'm not remotely clear
Corey
1:09:37
clear that's the episode number no
Zain
1:09:39
no it is actually uh here's the thing uh
Zain
1:09:41
uh i come in hot regardless and uh 913 was right you need to come in hot next time cory but are we is are we a go let's just do it now let's
Corey
1:09:50
let's re-record that that was fun but what's what's the point okay
Zain
1:09:57
is a strategist episode episode 9 go
Zain
1:10:03
go ahead do it go
Zain
1:10:08
what's your name now let's
Corey
1:10:10
let's let's start again let's start yeah
Zain
1:10:13
noticed that it's still recording so you
Carter
1:10:21
need the hand signal yeah
Zain
1:10:22
yeah I do need that At least I do do that.
Corey
1:10:26
is the Strategist. This is the Strategist.
Corey
1:10:33
name is Zane Belge.
Zain
1:10:34
You guys are incredibly bad at playing.
Corey
1:10:35
playing. I'm Corey Hogan.
Corey
1:10:38
With me as always is Stephen Carter.
Corey
1:10:43
Okay, no, we're going to do this again.
Corey
1:10:51
We're going to do it for real this time.
Zain
1:10:54
100% not doing it for real, fuck off
Zain
1:10:57
I'm just gonna wait Until you guys get your reps
Zain
1:11:00
Go ahead, tell me when we're ready