Episode 551: Stop crying

SPEAKER_00 0:03

This is a strategist episode 551. My name is Zain Velji with me, as always, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter. Gents, how are you today? Well,

Corey 0:12

Well, I'm excited. There's a lot to talk about.

Corey 0:14

There is like 10 days left in the election. I'm

Carter 0:19

exhausted. 67 days in.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

You don't want to do this. Just wrap it up.

SPEAKER_00 0:25

it up. That's a wrap.

SPEAKER_00 0:29

we have a ton to talk about and and by the way i i don't i don't understand why there was so much demand for an episode we're now finally back in the same city so we're doing one but it wasn't that long ago that we did one of these well

Corey 0:39

well this is the nature of the end days of campaigns everything becomes ultra compressed we're all of a sudden going through news cycles at three four times the regular cadence so it's sure like i i get it you know yeah it sure feels like a lot's happened since we last talked it was only a week ago but you

Corey 0:55

you know i mean what do you do it's this has been a crazy week just

Carter 0:58

just another way another day another wedge another

SPEAKER_00 1:01

another day another wedge well let's just start it off with that with our first segment cold pressing the lowest hanging fruit guys the muslim issue and the muslim question seems to be one that is dominating the campaign and we started off with the syrian refugee crisis tangentially related to this issue We moved on to the niqab, to the citizenship. We moved on to barbaric cultural practices, which I know, Corey, for you really just was, I guess for both of us, was really the issue that got us. And now we have doubling down on niqab and headscarves on public services. is. The question I want to ask you is, despite

SPEAKER_00 1:38

despite all this, how the hell are the conservatives up? How are they maintaining? How are they up? How are they winning votes? I want to get to the bottom of that and just plain English because that's what's baffling myself and a lot of people who message us online and be like, what's going on?

Corey 1:53

Well, this is one of those issues that I don't know how many people vote on it, but that's almost the point. There are bigots in the world, unfortunately. There are even more people who probably haven't thought enough about this to realize just how offensive their point of view could be considered from another frame and i think given enough time they will come to conclusions that are much more aligned with canadian values but i i think this is really a really great showcase of linton crosby and how he manages to distract people with these issues so there is this notion that he has that if you're at a dinner party and all of a sudden the conversation is turning against you well then stop having the conversation throw a dead cat on the table because all of a sudden they'll be talking about the cat they won't be talking about whatever it was that was causing you concern before and this is a dead cat like we're talking about the niqab i think not necessarily because it's some well it is well first of all it is it's a very bigoted wedge but that's not why we're talking about it we're talking about it because it is one of those things that not a lot of people vote on they can have this conversation and as much as a lot of us will be pulling our hair out about it there is a number of canadians who are like yeah you know i don't feel strongly one way or the other and here we are Now we're moving through the campaign, and guess what we're not talking about, guys? The economy, Dean Del Mastro, Mike Duffy, Canada standing in the world, any of the things that the conservatives could be absolutely hung on. The

Carter 3:15

Remember that? Remember that little nugget that we were going to actually have the election on? The economy. We haven't spoken about that for weeks, and we're not going to speak about it again.

Carter 3:24

I mean, this dead cat on the table, as you're describing it, is very effective. What I'm fascinated about, what I actually wanted to find out, is are there any conservatives out there who've changed their minds as a result of this issue? So we know of some friends of ours who are

Carter 3:42

particularly enamored with this style of campaigning. Correct. That are conservatives, that are disappointed.

SPEAKER_00 3:51

Just disappointed? Just disappointed. Well, they're still

Carter 3:55

They haven't changed their minds. They haven't found it within them to vote for Justin Trudeau. All they did was say, well, that's really disappointing, and I'm not going to vote for

Carter 4:06

for the other guys, but I'm going to be sad when I vote. This is what I think is amazing. We are looking at this issue from our lens. This, to me, is a disgusting form of politics. I hate the way that this issue is being rolled out. Yeah.

Carter 4:24

I hate the fact that we're picking on a very, very small subset of people. I hate this kind of divisionary tactic. And here we go. We're going to go down it. I don't think this is on the side of right and goodness, which is when, you know, I got accused of doing divisionary politics in 2012 for picking on, you know, Hunsberger's legitimate Christian view that all gays will burn in the lake of fire. You

Carter 4:46

You know, I don't think it's a legitimate Christian view. I was able to pick on it. I don't think that attacking people for wearing the niqab is also a legitimate view. So where the hell is the punchback from the liberals, the NDP, the Greens pushing back on this issue the way we pushed back on Hunsberger's hate?

Carter 5:05

Why is no one pushing back on the hate?

SPEAKER_00 5:07

hate? Well, let's talk about one person that has pushed back, and that has been throughout this instance, probably the most popular political figure in the country, and Mayor Nahid Nenshi, our mayor here, has pushed back vocally against Jason Kenney, against the Conservative Party.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Why has that not been a baton that some of the other parties have carried and ran with? Well,

Corey 5:28

Well, because of exactly what I told you. They don't want to be talking about this issue, and it's not because they think they're wrong about the

SPEAKER_00 5:34

the issue. But is there not an ability to broaden this to a values conversation,

Corey 5:39

Well, great. And what does that get you? And are they going to win on values? And is anybody going to vote on values? The fact of the matter is, anytime they're not talking about the economy, anytime they're not talking about corruption, about Mike Duffy, about the changes to our international stature, they're talking about things the conservatives want them to be talking about. Yeah, I get it. I fucking hate what the conservatives have done on this

Corey 6:01

It drives me nuts. But every minute I spend talking about it is a minute the conservatives are winning. Well, listen, I mean, I'll confess

SPEAKER_00 6:08

confess as a Muslim, this has been a very tough situation going on radio and television talking about this and, you know, and trying to parse out what I feel as a person who's a Canadian and a Muslim at the same time versus someone who's there to talk about political strategy and how this candidate and this party are still up. So I'm going to challenge you on that, Corey and Carter. You both think this is a distraction. is this is there any way that the conservatives are trying to play this on principle something that they try to to demonstrate to the people that we are about security that we are about secularism that we're about trying to equal the playing field by going after this

Corey 6:46

this there's no principle here jason kenney a year ago was talking about how ridiculous quebec's bill on the niqab was jack and all of a sudden now political opportunity

Corey 6:55

it's the worst kind you know i I was talking to my wife yesterday and she was saying, I don't think Jason Kenney is a racist. Well, I'll tell you what, I think the distinction between somebody who's a racist and is willing to play the race card for benefit is there is no distinction. It's

SPEAKER_00 7:10

It's negligible at this point. There

Corey 7:11

There is no distinction. If you're going to play the race card for benefit, you're a racist. I'm sorry. That's the end of the day. And I'll call a spade a spade on this one. That's just the facts. And where I think that the conservatives should be concerned is that no conservative is going going to look back on this campaign with pride in their heart carter

SPEAKER_00 7:28

carter do they have anything left cory just mentioned the word pride is there anything they can leave with this situation with their head up high say you know what we fought for a principle whether that principle was talking about security or equality or saying what canadian values are and welcoming people to the canadian family is there anyone that can actually legitimately say that leaving the conservative party i

Carter 7:47

i honestly don't think so i mean really obviously we're coming at this from that's a bit extreme

Corey 7:51

extreme i think but

Carter 7:53

i don't think that there's any pride left in this campaign every Every element that the conservatives have campaigned on that

Carter 7:58

that they were doing well on has been abandoned for

Carter 8:01

for – I mean they call it dog whistle politics, this idea that only a certain group of people can hear it. Now everybody is hearing it and they're still sticking to it. And it's making me – I

Carter 8:12

I don't know. Maybe when I said I was tired at the beginning of the show, maybe

Carter 8:15

maybe it's just I'm tired of this type of politics. Yeah.

Carter 8:18

One of the things I pride myself on, in 2012, Alison Redford's campaign deteriorated a little bit. we weren't able to talk about ideas. But Nenshi's campaign, we talked about ideas. The Alison Redford leadership, we talked about ideas. Even Al Nurkassam's ill-fated mayoral campaign in Calgary, we talked about ideas. Because that is

Carter 8:38

is at least the fabric I want to write and run an election in. There's going to be dead cats on the table. There's going to be distractions. But I want all those distractions to at least fold up into a frame of idealism, a frame of something that we can run on and win on that i'm proud of and i don't think the conservatives have anything left really

SPEAKER_00 8:56

really hey i'm surprised

SPEAKER_00 8:57

surprised because i i and i'm not defending their stance but yes you are no i'm i'm playing devil's advocate as as i should be doing but is there nothing that they can take away cory like can they not take anything away and say no we were fighting for a principle here and we're happy we're fighting for that

Corey 9:11

that principle and there are some people who believe that and there's two points i want to make right now and one of them is there are people in the conservative party and associated with the conservative party who know damn well what they're doing and they know how greasy it is and how immoral it is but

Corey 9:24

but you've also got to keep in mind that the people who are at at the head of the campaign the people running the levers or whatnot lived in a little town called ottawa last year during that shooting on parliament hill and honest to god i think a lot of them have

Corey 9:37

have uh ptsd over this i'm not i'm not trying to be flip good i'm not trying to i'm saying that would scare the crap out of me and And it would be very easy to start feeling like you were under attack, okay? They

Corey 9:48

They were under attack.

Carter 9:48

attack. That's very fair. They were under attack by a deranged lunatic,

Carter 9:54

lunatic, not by a coordinated effort. I mean, terrorism is different than a woman wearing a cap. I

Corey 10:01

I could not agree more, Stephen. I'm not saying that they're right in this. I'm saying there's some emotions wrapped up in this. There's some emotions wrapped up on this on the conservative side that are very real, very tangible. You know, there were bullets being fired in their place of work. This happened in center block. This is where the government staffers work, not where the opposition staff. Okay,

SPEAKER_00 10:19

Okay, so Corey, you've mentioned that this is a distraction. We've come to that conclusion, albeit with some pushback from me trying to get you guys to see if I could derail you on that notion.

SPEAKER_00 10:30

Why do people not want to vote on this issue? Why will people not vote on this issue? Is it because it's simply just an abstraction? Or is it because they haven't been able to think of it? Or is it because in practicality, it seems like a good idea? Yeah, sure. 80% of the people are, you know, have, have this belief is why, why will people not vote on all

Corey 10:49

of the above? Right. There's groups from each, um, those conservatives we talked about who are very disappointed, but you know, they're going to vote for the conservative party anyways, is because the conservatives have done a great job over the past few years of convincing their base that it's them or ruin. Right. Right. And it's amazing to me just how far they've been able to push that concept that some very good people I know are like, well, I've still got to stick with them because, you know, chaos with Justin Trudeau. I mean, I can't even go down that road any further. It'll just make me mad. But there's a lot of things at play here, not least of which is this doesn't matter to a lot of people. When people think about it briefly, they actually tend to side with the conservatives and that there's a broader conservative crusade that this is wrapped up. Stephen,

SPEAKER_00 11:32

Stephen, just earlier you were mentioning your frustration as to why none of the progressive parties were taking this and going forward. Do you feel, unlike Corey, that they should be going head-on into this storm and talking about this issue?

Carter 11:44

Oh, I do. I think that they should. I mean, to me, this is the exact kind of mistake that I like to capitalize on,

Carter 11:50

right? And I think, you know, today

Carter 11:52

today it comes out that the prime minister's office interfered with the immigration minister on screening Syrian

Carter 11:59

Syrian refugees. use. This is a great opportunity to link all of it back together and say, you know, we've got to stop this being afraid of allowing Muslims into our country. We've got to stop this idea that someone wearing a niqab is in some fashion a terrorist. These are people too. And we've done this time and time again, where we've opened our doors and we've welcomed people from other cultures. And it always works out best for us. Listen,

Corey 12:23

Listen, I, again, agree with you. And I'm in the the odd position of having to defend these policies that i abhor but look selling telling somebody to stop being afraid is like telling somebody to stop crying good luck with that that's just not going to happen and and the longer that we're talking about these issues i think the longer the new democrats and the liberals will be seeing the conservatives right there in the race with them there is no reason the conservatives should be at 32 and i don't believe it's because of the canadian public's support of their positions i on the niqab i think it's because of the canadian public's absolute lack of engagement on the issues that are hurting the Conservatives right now.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

That's fascinating. We'll come back to it as we move on for the next 10 days. I want to talk about a little bit with relation to the ethnic vote and what this does for the Conservatives. They have put in what many would consider to be many years of blood, sweat, and tears in trying to court the ethnic vote, various religious votes across the country, new Canadian votes. What does this issue do to them? Is it all goodwill gone right now if I'm Jason Kenney, the guy that's built up this infrastructure? And where do the conservatives stand here? Have they turned their backs on a constituency they've tried to build for so many years? Carter, I'll go with you first. Well,

Carter 13:38

Well, I can only speak to my experience working with Nenshi, right? And one of the things that I was doing a speech today to a group of students, and one of the things I pointed out is that he

Carter 13:47

he did very poorly in other ethnic communities. yeah

Carter 13:50

right yeah he was the wrong brand of muslim um and i i don't know i'm gonna get in trouble

SPEAKER_00 13:56

will get in trouble and i don't

SPEAKER_00 13:57

if i agree with you yeah i'll

Carter 13:58

i'll get over it but the reality is that that there are um little

Carter 14:03

little segments of our population right of our immigrant population and oftentimes those little segments of the population uh don't like those little segments of the population so i can't honestly say someone told me i mean maybe it was cory Corey is so smart.

Carter 14:18

But, you know, maybe the Muslims are angry, but the Hindus aren't.

SPEAKER_00 14:23

Well, I would even, you know, try to have us go a little bit deeper, right? We all understand, even when we target as political strategists, that these groups, number one, are not monoliths. There's an intergenerational divide amongst them, right? Their first generation is very, very different in how you approach them to second generation as it relates to block voting and communal voting, etc. etc but cory what's your what's your take on on first let's just talk about the goodwill the conservatives had built with the with minority communities across the country and then let's get into a little bit deeper as to the ramifications well

Corey 14:54

well uh i don't know necessarily whether or not there's going to be impacts amongst many different new canadian groups i certainly think that they have they have just put gasoline to the bridge with muslim canadians and new canadians from muslim countries and that's i

Corey 15:10

i i mean that's got to be frustrating to a guy like jason kenney frankly because he's invested a lot of time and effort into that but if if i'm a member of a new canadian community i'm

Corey 15:20

i'm not sure i feel comfortable about the conservative position because i've got to be thinking like oh great they turned on them am i

Corey 15:28

but there is the other countervailing force of the politics of small differences right i mean there is nothing that is more vicious than two people who almost agree with each other oh

Carter 15:37

oh i mean we see this time Time and time again, where you're trying to bring together a coalition and you bring groups together, especially

Carter 15:45

happens at organizer level.

Corey 15:47

level. The people's front of Judea and the Judean people's front. Yeah,

Carter 15:50

Yeah, I mean, you're bringing them together at an organizer level and so-and-so worked against the other person one time and they will never, ever get over it. And it's like

Carter 16:00

like you guys agree on 99% of everything, but they will focus entirely on that 1%. This is the, you know, someone was saying to me today, people don't vote because they don't see themselves reflected in a political party.

Carter 16:13

Well, how idealistic do you have to be not to see yourself reflected in at least one of the four major political parties in Canada? Like, what are you, a libertarian? Like, everybody else should

Carter 16:24

should be able to see themselves at least 80%, 90%, 99% reflected in one of these existing political parties. But people get so excited about the 1% or the differences. differences and if you're excited about those differences i

Carter 16:37

don't know how to how to help you yeah well i

Corey 16:40

i think it's a symptom of our times too this this very bespoke culture that we live in now where everything has to be a perfect fit is is maybe one of the reasons we're seeing declines in voter turnout it's not reasonable to ever think you're going to agree 100 with a political party if you do you're a robot you're not a real human being right i mean we're just way too nuanced for And you're going to have to say, this is my best of my options if we ever want democracy to work.

SPEAKER_00 17:06

Hindu, Sikhs, religious, people with other religious or community backgrounds. But no one in that video was Muslim.

SPEAKER_00 17:39

I don't want to get cynical. Do you think that is – and I think we've already gotten there. How do you not get cynical, Zane? I think we've already gotten there. How do you not get cynical? That was tough to swallow because it was a horrible song, number one. I speak Hindi and that was not good Bollywood music. Well, Corey and I also speak Hindi. Yeah, well, Corey is from the northeast. Of course he speaks Hindi. And of course –

Carter 17:56

– well, I spent so much time with Corey, I just picked it up. you

SPEAKER_00 18:00

know this is this to me is a ridiculous the

SPEAKER_00 18:03

the question i have is they're trying to they're trying to actually put another wedge here in in it aren't they like they're trying to salvage some of their their other minority communities while putting one on on the side are they not yeah they're picking an enemy they're

Carter 18:15

they're picking an enemy i mean this is this is one of the interesting things about politics we do this all the time pick

Carter 18:21

pick your enemy that's

Carter 18:23

that's your enemy and bring everybody around it and

Carter 18:26

and it can be used for good or can be used for evil we've seen pick your enemy before and

Carter 18:31

and i don't want to go all you

Carter 18:33

you know over the top on this like but the enemies are very clear and you can see this actually happening with

Carter 18:42

someone put together language that was used in 1930s germany and compared to the language that's being used right now by the conservative party it's

Carter 18:51

it's very close well

Corey 18:52

well look i mean hate is a train line with many stations before the terminus and we've just got to get off that train before we get there hate is hate though i mean i think it's important to say this is not politicking this is hate well

Corey 19:06

well it's very it's beyond cynical it's immoral but you know we are the strategists not the activists and i i think we

Carter 19:12

we have to turn me into an activist likewise which is so frustrating because i like I like to keep myself emotionally attached for most of the season. And you like

SPEAKER_00 19:18

like to compliment good strategy when you see it. I don't

Carter 19:21

don't care who does it. I

Carter 19:22

have been so complimentary of Jenny Byrne, so complimentary of the conservatives on this show. Yeah, that's

SPEAKER_00 19:28

that's a term of what we're trying to do here, for sure.

Carter 19:30

sure. And I can't be now. Now,

Carter 19:33

Now, everybody's pointing to Lyndon Crosby. We also said on this show, the conservatives have been masters at wedge politics. They didn't

SPEAKER_00 19:40

didn't need him, really.

Carter 19:42

All they needed was permission to go this dark. mark

Corey 19:46

agree with you i i think that we have to acknowledge that what's happening is working and yeah i hate that and i would never support it i will not be voting that way i you couldn't you couldn't drive me to the polls with a gun to my head at this point and vote for them uh but like what are you gonna say it's working right now and it's working in part because these conversations we're trying to get to is it working because these conversations continue okay

Carter 20:10

okay let me ask you a question i'm gonna take zane's role here and i'm gonna ask the the following question is it because is it because we are actually fundamentally racist

SPEAKER_00 20:21

i think it's because and i'm going to play your role and actually this is cory's role giving the sober smart analysis um i i whoa that took a turn i liked it yeah

SPEAKER_00 20:31

yeah we've been complimenting cory too much listen i i don't think it's that people are fundamentally racist i think it's germ to what i asked in the beginning which was i think people have been reading into this literally an inch deep. And that's all that they've been reading into it and saying, this is fine. I mean, yeah, of course, there's such things as Canadian values. Of course, you should not be able to wear the niqab. And then as soon as someone tells you something like, well, wait, since when did the majority get to decide what the minority needed to protect its rights? A very simple statement that clicks a light bulb on a lot of people. Or, you know, isn't telling someone what not to wear as oppressive as someone telling them what to To where like stuff like that, people have not thought this through. And I think the conservatives are taking advantage of that. That's where I stand on it. Yeah,

Corey 21:15

Yeah, I agree. I think they're taking advantage of the fact that there is a bit of superficiality

Corey 21:20

superficiality to when you approach an issue for the first time. And most people are only going to approach this one, two, or three times. I actually think the more the conservatives go back to this well, the more they expose themselves to some risk on this issue. Okay,

SPEAKER_00 21:32

Okay, let's talk about that then.

Corey 21:34

then. There's a big risk

SPEAKER_00 21:34

risk here. So if that's the case, Corey, should the other parties, like Carter said, not be extending the cycle and making this into a values conversation? Well,

Corey 21:42

Well, I continue to believe that the risk is greater to talk about it than it is to point out the things. Because the conservatives are either going to be hoisted on their own petard with this one or

Corey 21:52

they're going to win on this one. But I just don't know how it benefits Tom Mulcair in

Corey 21:57

in particular, but also Justin Trudeau to sit there and be talking about this issue. This issue, you

Corey 22:03

you know what, even if it was a winner from them from a policy standpoint, this is just not what people are voting on. It's not what people are voting on, and we're not talking about the things that will actually motivate the voters. So

Carter 22:13

So let's talk about – Hold on. Yeah, go ahead. Hold on.

Carter 22:16

This could be turned into a voting issue, and

Carter 22:19

and the way to turn it into the voting issue is do you want these guys in charge?

Carter 22:23

And that's how I would turn this. I would turn this into the ultimate negative you have to vote on Harper moment. And I would build an ad that would be just him and voiceovers saying all the nasty crap that's coming out of this prime minister's office over the last six years. There's lots of divisive shit that I would be picking up and I'd say, no more. And

Carter 22:49

And I would actually call the ad, no

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Yeah. I mean, this is where I stand. I mean, we were on CBC Radio yesterday, and I said, I think this is an opportunity for Justin Trudeau to make this a broader conversation about generational values. I mean, this is a guy in a party that's trying to redefine multiculturalism and redefine women's issues without actually touching the broader issue. They're doing it on a very small microcosm level. And if there's a chance for a conversation to be had, I mean, I don't want to make this a gang up on you, Corey, but I'd be interested in your take here. The

Corey 23:19

The last time we had a values election, in my opinion, was Trudeau's minority government way back. Right,

SPEAKER_00 23:26

Right, right. Like the original

Corey 23:28

original Trudeau. I'm not really sure there's an appetite for it. And I'm really not sure how you pivot a campaign 11 days

SPEAKER_00 23:33

days left. Well, we've clearly been

Corey 23:34

been primed for it. Have

SPEAKER_00 23:35

Have we not now? I don't think we have.

Carter 23:36

have. I don't think it's

Corey 23:37

it's a pivot, though. We've

Carter 23:37

We've been primed for it with this debate of fear for the last four

SPEAKER_00 23:41

four weeks. We've been talking

Carter 23:44

it's time for real change. Isn't that the… That

SPEAKER_00 23:47

That is the liberal one,

Carter 23:50

and what's the new democratic one change

SPEAKER_00 23:53

i have no idea change

Carter 23:55

change or it's you know both of them are it's time for change anyways the bottom line this has been a change election

Corey 24:01

election narrative from the beginning and

Corey 24:02

and this is just a reason for change i

Carter 24:05

i i don't think it's a change in the narrative i

Carter 24:08

i think it's an opportunity no one else is agreeing with me they're walking away i'm kind of

SPEAKER_00 24:12

of there with you no no i'm talking

Carter 24:13

talking about the The real campaigns. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Okay. Right? The campaigns are

Carter 24:17

are basically struggling to get back on what they thought their last 10 days were going to be. Oh,

Carter 24:22

Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. It's this kind of narrow-minded commitment to script that

Carter 24:26

that I think costs people elections. I don't play this game. I play a different game. The game I play is kind of campaign jujitsu. Whatever you give me, I'm going to take.

Carter 24:39

you give me Hunsberger

Carter 24:41

and Leach saying lake

Carter 24:43

lake of fire and

SPEAKER_00 24:44

and only Caucasians can lead, I'm

Carter 24:46

I'm taking those things and I'm turning them. Well,

SPEAKER_00 24:49

Well, campaigns are about events and how you respond to them in one way. But I want to get back to the foundation of my question. And this became a little bit more free-flowing with mature

Carter 24:57

mature subject matter, Corey.

SPEAKER_00 25:00

that's a Bill Simmons reference. But I wanted to get back to what the other parties should be doing as it relates to the minority vote. It's a huge block. No one owns it fully. The conservatives had 10 years in government to make overtures. That could be at risk right now. If I'm the liberals or NDP, what's my game plan?

SPEAKER_00 25:22

God is an interesting answer. No,

Carter 25:23

No, I mean the reality is the

Carter 25:26

the minority vote is

Carter 25:28

is a – it's a cultivated vote. It

Carter 25:32

not something you access in the final 10 days.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Very similar to the youth vote and many would argue. Yeah.

Carter 25:38

you have to access it by building trust and building relationships with the individual candidates and the overall campaign team. You do so much more work and the idea that you're going to turn an ethnic vote in

Carter 25:52

in the final 10 days seems beyond me. I would – I

Carter 25:58

I don't know. I would focus on old

Carter 26:03

old stock Canadians, I guess, to pick up where Harper left off. So

Corey 26:07

So that's the demographic you'd focus on. What do you think, Corey? This is entirely my point. I'm in agreement with Stephen, which is why I can't believe he's not in agreement with me. Like the people

Corey 26:14

people who are most impacted by this issue and who would be most likely to swing on this are also the least likely to be swung on this because white women

Carter 26:21

women are all over this.

Corey 26:25

get to that. I

SPEAKER_00 26:26

I want to I want to talk about Corey's point. Who's that group you're going to identify? Well,

Corey 26:29

Well, I was going to identify the various new Canadian communities that the conservatives have been cultivating. And it is a very relationship based approach. And it has to do with look, this is not unique to the conservatives. and this is not unique to new canadians but these are voting blocks uh that have a symbiotic power relationship i know this guy i can get things it's so on and so forth and that's not easily dismantled unless you're the direct subject and the direct target of the attack right and and i think that you know the the quote-unquote old stock canadians they're they're voting on different things there are a lot of people look i go on facebook and i see a million people who think we should be fighting this election on foreign affairs god

Corey 27:12

people don't vote on foreign affairs i am concerned look i would like nothing more than you guys to be correct but i don't think you're correct i think this is one of these issues that's fermenting a lot of frustration amongst the political class i just don't know that it's helping at all or can even be leveraged to help at all uh the campaigns themselves carter

Carter 27:32

i you know i just cannot get away from how frustrated and i am about this issue and and you know like you you try and respond to each individual issue uh professionally yeah and

Carter 27:44

and it's in a detached format and i have gone into situations time and time again crisis situations to do communications or or a political situation where you have to separate uh your feelings from the feelings of your candidate your candidate may disagree with you wholeheartedly i still don't know that we need a northeast tunnel in calgary yeah right But my candidate believed that we needed a northeast town and I – you professionally detach from that and you make sure that their point of view is reflected. They're the one who's getting elected, not me.

Carter 28:19

I can't – but I can't do it with this one. This one, maybe I'm just getting old or maybe I just got tipped too far or pushed over. But this one is impacting me and

Carter 28:29

I cannot approach it with the professional –

SPEAKER_00 28:33

Hey, I'm in the same boat. I hear

Carter 28:34

hear you. professionalism that maybe it requires maybe that's what cory is asking me to do is approach this with a little bit more of a detached point of view yeah but

Carter 28:42

but i can't get there and if i was running one of these campaigns i'd pick this bat up and i would start hitting people with it okay so that's

SPEAKER_00 28:49

that's i like that um cory mentioned the the whole concept of it's hard to mobilize or hard to talk about this if you're not the group that's directly uh the subject or directly under attack So I'm going to ask you guys this question.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

And broadly, but also specifically, broadly, if you are a group that is, you know, part of these attacks, or if you are the Muslim Canadian community broadly, and understanding that, yes, there's intergenerational, you know, differences, and the community is not a monolith. But if you're this third party group, not one of the political parties, how do you at this point, if you have an issue that you care about, mobilize? And I know that's a simple question on the surface, but I'd love for you to get your takes on if there's an issue that's bothering you right now, how do these groups in your estimation mobilize? mobilize well

Corey 29:36

well it's not a simple question it's a really complicated question because again if you take as

Corey 29:41

as the thesis that every time you're talking about this you're actually just you you're holding up the pinata for harper to to bat how do you how do you pivot to how do you make this something that hurts harper more than it helps harper and i mean i don't know my lame attempts on social media have been like you know and then a cap thing well look unless that uh harper thinks they're hiding canadian economic growth and our world stature under the niqab why are we trying to derove these people this doesn't make any sense to me you've got to try to pivot back to it and you've got to try to spend as little time as possible on it but that's

Corey 30:15

that's almost impossible when your stake is so high yeah

Corey 30:18

i don't know i mean i don't have an answer for you zane i would be absolutely

Corey 30:23

absolutely furious if i was a muslim canadian right now and i would never get over this i think this would burn me for a generation but

SPEAKER_00 30:31

don't i don't know what to say i've got a lot of friends and family in that boat right myself included and i think it does burn

Carter 30:36

burn a generation you

SPEAKER_00 30:37

you think it really does i think it really does

SPEAKER_00 30:39

does it burn to to the point where it lights a fire under them or is it does it burn them to the point where they just disengage well what's

Corey 30:44

what's the fire i mean we're talking about i

Corey 30:46

three percent of the canadian population very small yeah but i i mean and it will grow a subset of

Corey 30:51

of demographically it is growing but i mean i mean the fact of the matter is the conservatives have decided that they have sacrificed i think civility as well as long-term gain for this win they want this win and they saw this as a path to the win and god i

Corey 31:08

i mean honestly conservative voters out there you

Corey 31:11

may think that i'm being unreasonable or sanctimonious but can you really tell me you're going to be proud of this come two years you're gonna look back on this and say by god we did it right you know if you lose this election are you going to feel like like you lost noble no

Corey 31:25

no definitely not if they

Carter 31:26

they win this election it's

Carter 31:27

coming back to my point earlier though there

Carter 31:30

there is no pride in this moment there is nothing that you can come back to in principle and say we were at least standing up for the principles that we believe in okay

SPEAKER_00 31:38

okay well i think we've come full circle on this point let's move it on to our next segment our next segment x marks the box i want to talk about getting out the vote i think it's what 10 days now is it 10 11 Well, Advanced Polls

Carter 31:50

Polls has started, right? Tomorrow.

SPEAKER_00 31:52

Tomorrow? Oh, yeah. So Thanksgiving weekend. I mean, there's a lot to talk about this. But first, give me and give our listeners a top-line sentiment on what are some of the inputs that the campaigns have been working on to get to the final 10 days. Corey, I'll start with you. And then, Carter, you can go then right after.

Corey 32:09

Well, let's talk local campaigns. The national campaign is going to be doing their thing, and they're going to be sending emails out to supporters trying to encourage everybody to go volunteer and whatnot. not but fundamentally a local campaign has a limited communications focus it's just getting a few lit pieces out maybe some billboards or whatnot and it has a a very large what we call ground game focus

Corey 32:30

and i think most people are familiar with the ground game but it's

Corey 32:33

it's easy to lose track of why people are knocking on doors it's not to convince somebody that your candidate's the guy it's

Corey 32:39

it's to convince somebody that they should tell you who you're voting for because Who is your guy if my guy isn't? Yeah, well, okay. So ultimately campaigns are about two functions, right? Identifying a vote and then getting that vote out on election day. And I'm going to give you a bit of a real world example here. In 2008, I was helping out on a campaign of a liberal MLA here in Calgary who was an incumbent. And the turnout in that particular riding was 35%. On our identified vote list, we were able to get the turnout of those people. And because you can tell because on election day you go and you're watching them check off everybody on the list.

Corey 33:15

got the turnout of the identified vote to 80%. The entire margin of victory was just encouraging people to vote who already agreed with us, right?

Corey 33:24

And that's the mechanics of a traditional ground game. Now, there is nuance. And obviously, candidates do all sorts of things to try to gain an advantage and whatnot. The candidate is more successful at changing people's minds at the doors. The very fact you've seen a campaign has a measurable impact on how people are going to vote. But ultimately, and this is a mistake that I think novice campaigners make, if

Corey 33:47

if you get roped into a conversation at the door about a vote and it's taking you more than 35 seconds, you're doing it wrong. You lost that voter. Yeah, I mean, just move on. You have any

Carter 33:57

any idea how many times we've sat down and tried to explain to volunteers and candidates to stop trying to convince people to vote for you, right?

Carter 34:05

right? Right. That convincing of someone to vote for you is going to happen more likely through social networks, through peer-to-peer contact, through television advertising, through the leader, through how the overall national campaign is working. The reality is it's about identifying vote that could come out for you and

Carter 34:27

and mobilizing that vote.

Corey 34:29

Well, and think about it from a simple psychological standpoint. point somebody says they disagree with you you instantly disengage they can be persuaded on the back corner but if you are going out and you're having an argument with them and you're going on for a few minutes what you've done i mean everybody here like you know we're married zane you've got a fiancee like how well does that work you start an argument and people entrench right they absolutely just you've got a decouple and you've got to come back at it from a different angle which is why on the doors it's just about identification and move on listen

Carter 34:58

listen thank you very very much for your time. I hope that you'll consider me in the future. Have a great day. Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:03

Right. That's a close. Okay. So I want to make sure our listeners have this. Number one, it's about identifying people on the ground. Number two, it's about mobilizing them. So all of the efforts that have led to the last 10 days is identifying. Tell me what the steps are that the campaigns under our feet right now in this city and in provinces across the country are working on right now to get that GOTV or get out the vote infrastructure going. Two

Corey 35:28

Two things to consider. One is we have more advanced polls now.

Corey 35:31

And the other is the parties have really realized how important the advanced polls are. Well,

Carter 35:35

Well, let's let's change. There's also a psychological change or an actual in practice change to advanced polls. You used to go to the advanced polls only if you could not vote on Election Day. Yeah.

Carter 35:46

Right. You had to kind of give a reason why you were there. I'm not going to be here for the Election Day. So I'm going to vote in the advanced polls. Is that OK? And now it doesn't matter. You can vote. Election Day is the last day. can vote it's not the day you're supposed to vote yeah

Carter 36:00

yeah you can vote any day uh in these election polls and advanced polls and some candidates are wizards at it darshan kang who's running in calgary skyview where you're we're not going to know who wins skyview until

Corey 36:12

advanced polls come back because that

Carter 36:14

that guy you know take a look in mountain view in 2011 or not mountain view uh uh mccall

Carter 36:22

calgary mccall 2012 he pulls something like 1600 votes out of his buttocks oh i think it was more more

Corey 36:30

more than that maybe that was the gap and that was in tooth and the same thing happened in 2008 with his original election by the way he uh he was losing and they had actually declared the winner to be the conservative and then oh by the way the advance poll came and like generally for giving people some context is generally like a throwaway way the people are like

SPEAKER_00 36:48

not for the most part it has been in the past that

Corey 36:50

that is no longer the case and i think that there is some there's some comprehension of that now and the parties have seen like my god well yeah lock in a vote now why not we're

Carter 36:58

seeing somewhere in the neighborhood of uh 30 you know 20 to 30 percent of the votes cast being cast in advanced polls in

Corey 37:06

provinces why not like right now we've got yeah we've essentially got five election days now yeah

Corey 37:10

we've got the four advanced poll days and then election day and there are other ways to vote So we

SPEAKER_00 37:14

we all know that the get out the vote infrastructure within a campaign regionally, locally, whatever, is built in parallel with the original and the actual campaign. So talk

SPEAKER_00 37:24

talk to us a little bit about the structure of what that looks like. Because I think we discussed this in an earlier episode that what are your key positions? One of them we mentioned was GOTV chair. Corey, tell me what that position does locally or regionally and why that's so important. Well,

Corey 37:37

Well, E-Day chair was always my favorite. I've been E-Day chair, I think, like 10 times in different campaigns. It's great. Essentially, the campaign manager on the final day of the election, and it's not like the E-Day chair comes in for the first time on that day, they're

Corey 37:51

and all that, and they hand over the keys and they say, all right, this is your show. and the e-day chair coordinates hundreds of volunteers to do three tasks essentially phone voters to tell them to vote knock on doors to tell them to vote and scrutineer and scrutineering is not uh you know many people think people send scrutineers to the polls to make sure that there's no nefarious practices yeah

SPEAKER_00 38:13

yeah that's not the number one reason no

Corey 38:14

no nobody like we're in canada and i'm sorry you you'll i'm sure people will be like oh you're wrong the conservatives cheat all the time they don't nobody does nobody cheats nobody's cheating the reason why we send people to the polls is to check off on their lists who has voted that is on the campaigns list and if you identified of

Corey 38:33

and if they haven't voted yet then they're going to get a second call and a third call and a door knock and a second door knock it's

SPEAKER_00 38:39

it's a resource allocation issue effectively so the scrutineers help the campaign effectively allocate resources well

Corey 38:45

well yeah and also when you call someone say have you voted a lot of people will say yes even if they haven't and they just plan to vote. So you

Carter 38:51

you can actually open up the conversation by saying, we

Carter 38:53

we haven't seen your name on the voters list yet. Right.

Carter 38:56

Are you going to vote today? Do you need a ride?

Carter 38:59

How do we get you there?

Carter 39:02

Let's go. And you change the whole fundamental outcome of the election by

Carter 39:06

by pushing out a GOTV action that moves you to the number of votes you're actually required to win.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

GOTV chair that's positioned locally or regionally. Carter, you've run the national side as well. Well, and Corey, you have as well. I'm not going to say that you haven't. Provincial. Provincial. Sorry, it's the provincial side. But tell me what the GOTV person on the provincial end does. There is one. What is it?

Corey 39:28

is one. Okay, so what's the campaign centrally doing at that time? We're exchanging texts. I think Carter and I were like, what do you think is going to happen? And we were on opposite campaigns for people who don't know. You're done. You're done. We

SPEAKER_00 39:38

We had nothing to do. It all comes down to regions and localities at this point. I

Carter 39:43

I mean, you can see it. When you're on a campaign and you are going all

Carter 39:49

in the national campaign or the provincial campaign or the mayor's campaign, at some point it shuts down and you hand it over to the GOTV chairs and you're

Carter 40:00

So every riding is responsible on Election Day, on Monday the 19th. Every riding is going to be responsible for its own performance. performance and

Carter 40:08

the national campaign basically sits sits down and goes well

Carter 40:15

here's hoping it all works out now there's certain little tools and techniques that can be done well and you see robocalls coming

SPEAKER_00 40:20

national and all that but outside of that it's all dependent on on the individual right oh and it's so very important

Corey 40:26

important i don't think people appreciate just how much a good get out the vote effort can contribute to a campaign uh but really it's It's about – it is your biggest mass coordination. Think about it as like you've got your five-star general who's coordinating the overall movement of troops and that's your campaign manager local, right? But somebody has got to be in charge of the beach landing and that's your EDA chair. And the EDA chair's job is to make sure that all of the pieces are doing exactly what they're doing and

Corey 40:56

and keeping a cool head because nothing is going to go as planned.

Carter 40:59

Yeah, I mean – so you have a different level of game planning. When you game plan and you kind of practice the execution of, in this case, a 77-day campaign,

Carter 41:10

it is one thing because you have – it feels like you have no time. It feels like it's reactionary. It feels like it's moving very, very quickly. It's positively snail-paced compared to GOTV. You have one day, one time to get it wrong. And if your software goes down and

Carter 41:28

and we've seen this – As

SPEAKER_00 41:30

happen as – yeah, oh, for

Corey 41:30

for sure. You need a plan. you need a backup plan and you need a backup to the backup plan and you better have a backup to the backup to the backup plan too because you get no do you can't screw this up you cannot screw this up and

Carter 41:41

and you and you don't have an hour and a half to figure it out no

Corey 41:43

no you have minutes yeah you have minutes to be like okay we're still moving forward we're still getting our votes out uh we are still identifying let's go so

SPEAKER_00 41:51

so laying that groundwork let's get to what i think is the obvious question who

SPEAKER_00 41:55

who as a campaign stands at an advantage right now i know the answer might be who's got the best local resources but carter who stands at an advantage when it comes to voter mobilization conservatives yeah because they don't need to be mobilized

Corey 42:07

mobilized so i think that's almost the catch-22 yeah explain that to us well they're if they're going to vote anyhow they do not you look at

Carter 42:14

at the the age breakdowns and the likely voter breakdowns the conservatives voters vote every time so i've talked about it on this on this on this podcast where we talked about vote, the

Carter 42:25

the underrepresentation in the numbers by the pollsters because you're not accounting for the fact that a 28-year-old is 0.4 times likely to vote and a 65-year-old is 0.96 times likely to vote. That's

Carter 42:44

That's just the reality, right?

Carter 42:46

right? Those different factors need to be weighted into not necessarily polling because polling is crap, but into your own E-Day electoral predictions. Well,

Corey 42:54

Well, let me expand on that. There are other advantages the Conservatives have baked in right now, and one of them is these tightened ID requirements, which are disproportionately going to impact voting groups that vote for progressive candidates. Explain

SPEAKER_00 43:05

Explain that to us, who may not have been caught up on that. What does that mean? All

Corey 43:09

So previously, prior to the 2008 election, you could vote just by walking up federally. And this is still the case provincially in many provinces, including our own here in Alberta. You just walk up and you say, hey, I'm Corey Hogan.

Corey 43:21

I'm in poll 57. I'm on the voters list. And they have to give you the ballot. And the reason that always worked just fine is because if that was a fake Corey Hogan and real Corey Hogan comes in the next step, like the risk is too high for too minimal a reward. Right. And so there are so few cases of voter fraud, certainly nothing widespread.

Carter 43:41

Even in the United States, I mean, we're talking a

Carter 43:44

a dozen cases out of

Carter 43:46

of millions of ballots cast.

Corey 43:48

2008 comes, conservatives are in power. It might have been 2011. I think it was 2008. They

Corey 43:54

They tighten up the voting requirements. So now all of a sudden you need to have some ID. But

Corey 43:59

that ID is broadly defined enough that you show up with your voter's card or you show up with whatever. ever now

Corey 44:04

now you need stricter identification you need name you need address driver's license is pretty much the easiest way for most people to do that but you know what students rarely have the right address on their driver's license uh you know people who are of lower income who don't drive yeah don't have a driver's license they've perhaps been much more likely to move recently which means they don't have id that also has the address and the problem is not even necessarily that these people have absolutely no way to get this id and i always think this is like such a straw man argument of conservatives nobody is saying that the point is how many people carry around like a utility bill with them right people carry driver's licenses around if they have them but if you're a voter who's not necessarily in one of those easy buckets you show up to vote and they're like no i'm sorry go get a utility bill well hopefully you have a recent one hopefully you didn't recycle it already hopefully hopefully and you have to give much more forethought into this and this bakes in a massive advantage for the conservatives and

Carter 45:00

and there's all kinds of worldwide worldwide examples actually of places where you don't have identification on trying to track and make sure that people don't vote more than once you go to a lot of democratic elections in places in the world where they don't have id regularly they just put their finger in a color of ink indelible ink and that's it's done and that's

Carter 45:18

okay so you know i mean this is this

Carter 45:20

is this is a solution to a problem that didn't exist and it's a bad solution to to that problem to that non

Corey 45:26

-existent problem thing i actually would have actually gotten behind that because as well that's a a great way to be like hey i voted it's

Carter 45:32

than you could have the uh sure some of the most iconic images

Carter 45:36

that have come out

SPEAKER_00 45:36

out in the last decade have been of of countries that of people who were not able to vote for decades and generations you know showing their thumbs or their fingers or whatever yeah but i want to i want to get into one last question on this is is there anything that the liberals or the ndp need to do to to um take

SPEAKER_00 45:52

take it not take advantage but counteract that baked in as cory would call it advantage that the conservatives have on get get out the vote well they're doing

Corey 45:59

doing what they can to spread the message make sure that people have given the forethought so they you know if the utility bill is what they need they've made sure they're holding on to the utility bill but

Corey 46:07

but the problem is there's just there's only so much bandwidth in a campaign and if you're giving bandwidth to that and not some of the other issues you start to spook yourself and and frankly it's going to be a problem regardless of what they do because almost by nature those same groups are least likely to get those campaign messages right Right.

Corey 46:27

It's very difficult. And it's really unfortunate because, for example, right now we've got Elections Canada running a lot of ads on this is what you need to vote. Well,

Corey 46:35

Well, sure. On cable television. Yeah.

Corey 46:37

Yeah. Great. Great. Cable television means that no one, the people aren't watching. Well, the people who are impacted the most are least likely to have access to

SPEAKER_00 46:46

All righty, guys, we will talk about more. Get out the vote as we do future episodes. But let's move it on to our over under our lightning round. Are you ready? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

Yes. Yes. Okay. Over, under, on six. Over, under, on six. The amount of damage that the PMO involvement in the Syrian refugee crisis is doing. The most recent story. Over, under, on six. Ten, a lot of damage. One, little damage. Five.

Carter 47:10

wish it was more.

SPEAKER_00 47:12

We mentioned the importance of families. We've all seen in the last week, despite the conservatives campaign that they've run, that they've even thrown some carrots to the family vote. Who's doing the best job on the whole family issue? Which party, Carter?

Carter 47:24

I don't think any of them are doing the job that they need to do, but I think the liberals are probably best.

Corey 47:28

Liberals are winning on imagery. Conservatives are actually, I think, winning on policy.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

Which party is best positioned to make the case right now that they are going to stand up for that change election? Which party, Corey?

Corey 47:43

by a mile at this point. The New Democrats, I'm going to take a minute here

SPEAKER_00 47:47

here to say – Yeah, take a minute because I wanted to talk about this broadly because we've been discussing it over the last couple of weeks on radio and TV.

Carter 47:52

TV. What he's going to say is how right I was in all the other podcasts. But let's take

SPEAKER_00 47:56

take a minute. I want to talk about

Corey 47:57

about the New Democrats. It's an inexplicable policy to me of now really pushing the 2011 election results.

SPEAKER_00 48:04

Oh, my God. We all love that, didn't we? And by love, I mean, that was ridiculous.

Corey 48:08

they're just essentially like being like, this is what it was nationally. Do

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Do you know when that graphic could have come out? The day after the election in 2011. Well,

Corey 48:16

Well, and to suggest that nothing has happened since then, like, I don't think Canadians are that stupid. And I actually like this is continuing a troubling trend for the New Democrats of almost talking down to the voters. You've got the 2011 results pretending those are the things you've got, the $15 minimum wage that only impacts certain people. You've got the child

Corey 48:33

child care thing that doesn't kick in until 2023. You've got universal pharma care that they've given no money to. These policies are starting to pile up and look just exceptionally disingenuous. And

SPEAKER_00 48:47

And what do we see today? We saw this, Carter, you're laughing. It's

SPEAKER_00 48:51

my Facebook page. How about you do it rather than me? Right

Carter 48:55

the Edmonton Journal, the New Democrats have bought a rap ad, I believe, I haven't seen the actual piece of paper. I'm looking at a picture of it where they say – they take two polls from months ago where

Carter 49:10

where it shows that they are in the lead in Edmonton and the only ones who can win seats. And they've taken these old polls, repackaged them and said we're the only ones who can beat the conservatives. Well, they aggregated

SPEAKER_00 49:22

has nothing to do with the riding specifically.

Carter 49:24

Let's call this what it is. It's a blatant lie to try and win over voters. Well,

SPEAKER_00 49:29

Well, because the counter-narrative is there, right? They're trying to diminish – they're trying to just neutralize

Corey 49:33

neutralize polls. We'll post this to the strategists' Twitter account and

Corey 49:37

Facebook account. People can take a look for themselves. But yeah, this is ultimately the problem. I'm a little concerned with the New Democrats and how comfortable they are essentially trying to mislead voters at this point.

Carter 49:47

point. Yeah. Well, OK. You're going to use mislead. I'm going to say they are comfortable lying and

Carter 49:51

and it is hurting them because it turns out that Thomas Mulcair is duplicitous.

SPEAKER_00 49:58

Oh, my God. Every single episode like clockwork. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 50:03

Your GOTV message for the liberals, if you were to give them one piece of advice or one piece of strategy as they head into GOTV or they start planning and mobilizing that element of their campaign, what is it, Carter?

Carter 50:16

So what that means to me is don't worry about this idea of getting 338 ridings. Focus on 150 that you can actually do exceptionally well. pull your resources from the others and hold them accountable hold the 150 cory

Corey 50:32

cory well that's a great strategy but i think what i would recommend the liberals do is uh is just get out of the way let your local campaigns do it they've got it or not right now and and what i do see from the liberals that is frustrating is a ton of meddling a ton of meddling by the national campaigns like what like give

SPEAKER_00 50:49

give me an example

Corey 50:49

example just checklists here you've got to tell me what your status is how How are you doing? My granddad had an old saying, he would say, right? Which is like, there's no point in stopping to ask the time when you know you're late, right? On election day, if you're asking for a status update from these campaigns, you're doing it wrong. These campaigns are going to float or they're going to sink on their own at that point.

Carter 51:08

The only time you do it is after polls have closed. Then you can get your updates. Yes. Let them do their work.

SPEAKER_00 51:14

Yeah. Your piece of strategy for the liberal, for the NDP on get out the vote. What would that be, Carter? Stop lying. Oh,

Carter 51:21

Oh, sorry. Different strategy.

Corey 51:25

it's it's very much the same yeah you

Corey 51:27

you know the basics the fundamentals of get out the vote are you you've got to put your trust in the local they go

Carter 51:33

go and they go across parties the

Carter 51:35

the only difference is the conservative voter because they're older it's more likely to vote less work for the final question

SPEAKER_00 51:40

question and this is going to be the germ of what we use next episode when we talk about likely outcomes who wins this election carter oh

Carter 51:49

first of all have we not talked I liked about how much I hate predictions. Oh,

SPEAKER_00 51:52

Oh, you know, you're horrible at them,

SPEAKER_00 51:53

them, which is why I love getting you on the record. It's really good. That and fortune cookies. I think

Corey 51:59

Corey? I think it's liberal minority too. We're in agreement.

SPEAKER_00 52:01

We'll discuss that next episode. That's a wrap on episode 551 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Velgey. With me as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan, and we will see you next time.

SPEAKER_00 52:15

Listeners of The Strategist podcast. Remember,

SPEAKER_00 52:18

Remember, we are on iTunes and Stitcher, so make sure you subscribe to our podcast on there. Also, we're on Twitter at StrategistPod and individually at Corey Hogan, at Carter underscore AB, and at Zane Velji.

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