Transcript
Zain
0:02
This is The Strategist, episode 534.
Zain
0:05
With me, as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan. Gents, how are you doing? Great.
Zain
0:10
Really good. It's Friday.
Zain
0:12
It's Friday. A special
Carter
0:13
special Friday edition of The Strategist podcast.
Zain
0:16
That's right. We like to schedule these during one of the days of the week, and this is also a day.
Carter
0:20
Any one of the seven days of the week, you're going to get a Strategist podcast. You just don't know which one. Yeah,
Zain
0:24
Yeah, that's true. Now, we just came off the CBC, just recording on the CBC Homestretch here in Calgary, talking about our live show on Monday. So if you have an RSVP, seats are limited, but it's live.thestrategist.ca, Engineered
Zain
0:36
Engineered Air Theatre, 7 o'clock for our live show. Anything you want to add to that? Corey, you good? I'm good. Carter?
Carter
0:44
Okay, if you show up at like 7.15 and
Carter
0:47
you're not in the theatre, you're
Carter
0:49
you're not going to get in the theatre. Okay,
Zain
0:50
Okay, that seems pretty simple.
Carter
0:51
simple. Because I'll tell you who can sell out a free show.
Carter
0:54
We can sell out a free show. We're pretty
Zain
0:57
at selling out free shows. Especially
Corey
0:58
Especially ones so close to the
Zain
1:02
We're good at selling out free shows. Some of us are good at selling out. Let's move to our first segment.
Zain
1:09
art of getting by the life of a CBC employee. Guys, this is not politics. This is about our biggest political media story of the week. A national media story. Evan Solomon, host of CBC's Power and Politics. A national CBC personality. was suspended and then in a very few hours after that let go because of his dealings with an art broker in which he used his journalistic contacts to facilitate deals that he benefited from okay
Zain
1:37
okay i think that's all the context we need about that story but first
Zain
1:40
first of all was this firing of evan solomon as as the country's leading voice on political journalism some may argue an overcompensation carter i know you're riled up about this i'll go with you first well
Carter
1:50
well i i think think it's absolutely an overcompensation i mean the cbc has just been taking hit after hit after from
Carter
1:57
gian gomeshi to amanda lang and now to evan solomon and
Carter
2:03
imagine that it was a thousand dollars in
Carter
2:05
in commissions that evan solomon had taken a
Carter
2:08
a thousand dollars in commissions for artworks that have been sold and what was reported was three hundred thousand no no well one of the transactions was three hundred thousand dollars we're talking about a lot more than that in total but
Carter
2:19
but the point is that the size of the money shouldn't matter at all.
Carter
2:22
But it does matter,
Carter
2:23
because it's offended the average Canadian sensibilities. Why does this guy get to go on and make all this money from selling art?
Carter
2:31
Let's be clear, none of the money from the commissions came from anybody who he was approaching to be on the show.
Carter
2:38
at the end of the day, this
Carter
2:40
this is just a total overreaction. And I personally, I'm very upset about it. And I'm not even sure that I'm prepared to go back on power and politics without Evan being there.
Zain
2:51
Corey, I want to get your take, and then I have a few questions to follow up. You go first.
Corey
2:53
Yeah, mine's not the opposite of Stephen's. Mine's more I couldn't find myself a way to get worked up about what he did. Really, I mean, I do understand the journalistic integrity argument that you can't be essentially
Corey
3:06
essentially pimping your guests on the side or making money. I do understand that, but it sounds a little bit different, at least the details that are out.
Corey
3:15
I'm really confused by it.
Corey
3:17
I am wondering if this is an overreaction, if this is overcompensation, but you look at some of the other
Corey
3:24
other CBC cases they've had lately, and I'm not going to get into a mock about who I think is good and who I think is bad at CBC, because you're all great. We love you. We love the CBC.
Carter
3:35
CBC. Thank you again.
Corey
3:37
But I'm confused, and I
Corey
3:42
I don't know. I don't know what to think about all of this, and if there's more to this, I think CBC needs to share it with us, because right now it just feels like they
Corey
3:50
they had a problem last year, and they went way off the deep end this time. If that's not the case, I want to know what is. So,
Zain
3:56
So, you know, part of your job as strategist is not just simply in the domain of politics and campaigns. It also involves sometimes media relations and media segmenting
Zain
4:07
segmenting and stuff like that. Crisis management.
Zain
4:10
Absolutely. So let's talk about this as a crisis management campaign
Zain
4:14
campaign or issue. Does the CBC, even if there is more to say about this story, have enough grounds right now? Or would you suggest to the CBC to be so aggressive with letting him go if there was more to come? Stephen? I
Carter
4:28
I mean, both. I think that the CBC and Evan Solomon both could do with a little bit of crisis management right now. And the first thing that I would say is it's time to put your story out.
Carter
4:38
Whatever your story is going to be, put it out.
Zain
4:41
CBC, we saw what happened with Jian Gomeshi when he put his story out.
Carter
4:46
Well, it turns out that that story was only partly, well, it was false.
Carter
4:50
You can't put out a false story as Gomeshi tried to do.
Zain
4:53
do. So what type of story do you put out? How about the truth?
Carter
4:56
Yeah. How about the truth? How about if Evan Solomon says, you know, it's true, Mark Carney and I have been friends for a lot longer than I've been on hosting this television show.
Carter
5:06
How about if he says that?
Carter
5:08
How about if he says, I know that he has an interest in art, and I have had an interest in art far longer
Zain
5:14
longer than I've had this television show.
Zain
5:16
Okay, you said both sides in this equation could use with some crisis management or some issues management. What would the CBC have to do to rectify?
Zain
5:23
rectify? I'm not saying there's a large course, but the course seems to be growing of people who think this is an overcompensation due to past errors that they've made in the last year. I
Carter
5:32
that they need to say this is, you know, they need to be able to put out a story. Now, they're constrained by confidentiality clauses, but I would suggest that they need to get their side of the story out that says we
Carter
5:45
we have to act. It may appear that this is just a simple art transaction, but there's something more. They could even do that quietly or through other sources because the CBC may be constrained. But there's other ways to get the story out. Corey,
Zain
6:01
Corey, put your time as executive director, as a political strategist, as a campaign manager in effect here. Put your campaign hat on. What would you recommend in this issue of issues management?
Corey
6:12
Yeah, I mean, my career was with the liberals. It was no stranger to crises and people leaving under suspicious circumstances. It was crazy. It was like a horror movie, all of a sudden they'd just be gone. And always
Corey
6:25
always then there was comment and they'd ask questions fundamentally about the management because, and this is the problem the CBC has, and I don't have solutions, I just have analysis on this one.
Corey
6:36
This happens to one employee, something
Corey
6:39
something shaky happens and somebody has to move on or is fired, that's
Corey
6:43
that's weird. Two, that's starting to get stranger still. And by the time we're at where we're at now with the CBC, you start to ask, is there something culturally going on at the CBC? Is there something rotten in the state of Denmark? And that may or may not be fair.
Carter
6:59
I don't think that's fair. I mean, I think that you've got a situation
Carter
7:01
situation where people are making money on the side in a second gig.
Carter
7:07
Peter Mansbridge, for crying out loud, was making money off of speaking gigs. This is not unheard of. All of the anchors, Lloyd Robertson, would make money on a speaking gig. And it was never implied that by taking the money on a speaking gig, you were in some fashion betraying your journalistic ethics. This is a new ethic that has been established relatively quickly, and I think it's a bad one.
Corey
7:29
Well, and you know our money on the side is the CBC sometimes. So we're in a funny place. The thing,
Corey
7:37
thing, though, that the CBC is really struggling with is kind of an identity crisis across its entire network. working. There's layoffs everywhere. There's this sense that it's under siege from the government. There's this sense maybe there's no purpose to the CBC in the era that we're in right now with the internet and all of these other television networks that are national and all of that.
Zain
7:58
So I want to broaden the conversation with one last question in this segment. What does this mean for political media? Corey just hit on that point saying, does this mean that the CBC maybe is not as important right now with all the proliferation of other medias? What does this mean for political analysis and political media with the firing of Evan Solomon? I
Carter
8:14
think you take one of the top voices in political commentary and political media off the air, and it creates nothing but trouble. I think there's not enough voices. There's certainly not enough great voices. And Evan Solomon, in my opinion, was one of the great voices. And he's been taken off the air. He's been silenced. And I think that that's bad for political reporting overall.
Carter
8:37
Courtney, very quickly on your end.
Corey
8:39
Yeah, I don't know. I'm going to keep coming back to I don't know. There's just something so strange about everything that's happening over there. And unfortunately, it's tied up into some broader issues. And so it has people asking bigger questions than maybe they should. Okay,
Zain
8:53
Okay, let's move on to our next segment, tying in very closely to what we just chatted about. Our next segment is called Full Court Press. Let's talk about how some of our notable Alberta political media are now jumping over to the other side and working for government. We know two that have come out, John Archer of the CBC, Jeremy Nollet of Metro, alongside I think four or five more, if I'm not mistaken. This is a half dozen individuals that have now gone from media
Zain
9:21
media to government. Now, it's not rare that this happens, but a
Zain
9:24
a package like that or so many of them at the same time? Let's talk about that a bit more. Carter, you want to get into this? Do you remember
Carter
9:29
remember the outrage when Tom Olson left the Calgary Herald to become Ed Stelmack's communications director in 2000? I think it was 2006. Yeah.
Carter
9:41
I mean, in 2006, it was outrage. Tom Olson jumps ship from the Calgary Herald and becomes the communications director for the premier. This was, you know, how could he? Has he been writing from the point of view of the progressive conservatives this whole time? And now we lose Archer, Nole, I mean, there's just too many to name. You've named two,
Zain
10:08
trust me, I didn't know that. Do you want to take the rest? I didn't know the other ones either. Can you fill in
Carter
10:11
in the other names for me,
Zain
10:11
me, Mr. Zane and Mr.
Carter
10:13
Mr. Zane. Mr. Zane, Mr. Zane, we're going to go with that.
Carter
10:20
The media doesn't make a lot of money.
Carter
10:22
The media has very little in the way of job security. period. Jumping ship to the other side may seem like a smart move, but they're jumping ship to a place where it's not very secure. We saw Kevin, I'm going to forget Kevin's last name. Kevin left from CTV and went into the bureaucratic communications. Isn't there any? Kevin Armstrong, formerly CTV Edmonton.
Carter
10:46
We've seen time and time again journalists jump into this. They often get drowned when
Carter
10:51
when they jump into this particular pool. I don't know that this would be this suggestion I'd make.
Corey
10:56
Yeah, you're right. And the reason it happens is because journalists are used to having a certain sense of agency. They're allowed to go out there. They're allowed to follow the story. They have a voice. They're able to articulate a point in the fashion they want to articulate it. And when you go into government, you are an order taker. You are following the line day in, day out. And it's so different than what they're used to. And I don't know how many of them realize just how different it's going to be. That's a problem for them but that's also a problem for the new democrats because you want to know who goes off script worse than anybody who's a government employee in the communications department it's the guys who used to be commentators and reporters and and they've created themselves a bit of a time bomb with six i think maybe even seven people right now who have come from a universe of being able to say what they want when they want and and that are frankly very cozy with the rest of the the media. So you
Zain
11:48
jumped against my question. Is this a poor move by the NDP to take so many at bulk from
Zain
11:55
from the media to their communications and press staff?
Zain
11:58
I don't want to make it sound like these aren't good people. I really
Carter
12:03
I'm going to pick on Jeremy Nollet.
Carter
12:05
Because for me, his
Carter
12:07
his appointment as Press Secretary to the Minister of Education. Now this is Jeremy Nollet of the Metro.
Zain
12:13
Who Who wrote extensively about education. Wrote
Carter
12:14
Wrote extensively and negatively about education.
Zain
12:19
in Calgary about the school board here, but all across the province. Really
Carter
12:21
Really negative stuff about the school board and how openness and transparency principally.
Carter
12:26
And he is going to be screwed.
Carter
12:29
When we were doing the swearing in, the episode a couple episodes ago, we talked about the swearing in. And how about 50% of the oath is
Carter
12:40
They have to take a similar oath. When you are hired into the executive council or into these roles, you have to protect the secrets of the government. Not because you're keeping secrets from the people, but because there's a lot of discussions that are happening.
Carter
12:56
Jeremy Nollet railed against that, and now he's going to be the chief secret keeper. And it makes me wonder if it's physically possible for
Zain
13:05
for him to be put in that position. So you don't think, Corey, his assessment that some of these individuals put in these positions are taking time bomb is too aggressive. You agree with that is what I'm hearing. Oh,
Carter
13:15
Oh, I think that they're
Carter
13:17
they're going to have a very difficult time locking away from their prior role.
Zain
13:22
Interesting. Now, Corey, any analysis you may want to offer around what this means for the NDP to take all
Zain
13:27
all these members at bulk? Well, yeah,
Corey
13:29
yeah, we talked about the negative, but there's obviously a positive, too. These guys have great relationships with the media across the province. I think
Corey
13:35
think that that can lull you into a false sense of security. And I have a feeling that I will be shocked if one of the later topics is not the new chief of staff to the Minister of Energy. So I won't go too far down that road, but you
Corey
13:47
you start to get cozy and you're maybe not as smart as you need to be. They need to realize, and by they I mean the New Democrats broadly, but also the now former
Corey
13:57
former journalists more specifically, that this
Corey
14:01
this you they're not your buddies anymore not in that sense at least they could be your pals you can have a drink with them but you you're not talking shop you you now have two different jobs to do but
Carter
14:10
but you're serving a completely different master yeah and uh i'm not sure that they understood that okay
Zain
14:15
okay let's let's move on here so yes we discussed what this means for these new press secretaries former journalists we've discussed a little bit about what this means for the ndp what does this mean for our civil discourse you know a lot of these individuals covered the legislature they covered this
Zain
14:32
this government that we had in the past they asked the hard questions from the press gallery what
Zain
14:37
what is your insights into what this means for for journalistic coverage of the of the legislature should we be concerned
Corey
14:46
I mean everybody always says the sky is falling look if there's a problem with journalistic discourse in this province it's not that some people switch careers that's a reality it's It's that the industry itself is under such insane pressures that it's dying more broadly.
Carter
15:01
You can't blame these folks for taking a job that they perceive as more secure. Their industry is completely under siege. It's hard for anybody. I mean, Metro's, I think, the only outlet
Carter
15:14
outlet that's been significantly growing. How
Corey
15:16
How do the Metros of the world, though, compete with the strategist podcasts? How do they
Carter
15:20
they compete, especially with our live shows at the Engineered Air on June 15th? 7 p.m. Tickets are free, but make sure you're RSVP. Live
Zain
15:28
Live.TheStrategist.ca. It's like I'm finishing your words. Okay, next segment.
Zain
15:33
I'm going to call this 30 Seconds in Heaven.
Zain
15:38
And I want you guys to do two things here. On each of these two questions that are coming up, I want you to do two things. So listen carefully. I'm going to give you two situations. I want us to talk a little bit about each of these two situations because I think they're quite interesting and they're quite meaty and relevant. of it but
Zain
15:52
at the end of it i wanted you to talk about your 30 seconds of advice that you'd give to the individuals involved so we'll talk about it through the question but i want you to i want you to think about that going forward okay first issue you
Zain
16:03
you are the head of political operations for the ndp you are looking for a candidate in calgary foothills and
Zain
16:09
and the old name bob hoxworth pops up bob
Zain
16:12
bob hoxworth former ndp mla former counselor ran for mayor was he former counselor or maybe I got there but he was okay ran for mayor did
Zain
16:20
did all that stuff if you're the NDP
Corey
16:22
NDP is this a good move or a bad move Corey I
Corey
16:24
don't think it's a great move uh they're um they're
Corey
16:28
they're setting themselves up for an early loss let's not forget Foothills went PC it was one of this was Apprentice's seat that he dropped on election day only 10 that went PC and I know it was the leader's seat but in many cases in these wave elections you see the leader being like one of the first to get knocked out um and they're putting a a name against them so they're they're They're out there and they're saying, we're competing for this seat, we're going to try to win this seat, we're the government. There was not really much expectation for them, I think, going forward into this by-election that has to happen in five months. They've created expectations and I think they may have created expectations they might not be able to deliver on. Interesting.
Carter
17:03
Well, I think that the by-elections are tricky little devils. The problem with a by-election is that it doesn't necessarily reflect an election.
Carter
17:10
When people were electing their NDP in MLA, they thought that they were electing perhaps an NDP minority, or perhaps a weak NDP majority. But they didn't expect that they would have 53, 54 seats, and depending on how you count, but now
Carter
17:26
now they've got those seats. And now you're hearing people say, oh,
Carter
17:31
what did we do?
Carter
17:33
Right? And you're already getting some pushback. People are excited about the potential of this government. But I also don't think that people are so excited that they're thinking to themselves, you know what we should do? We should elect that guy who ran for mayor who got 1% of the vote in
Carter
17:45
in this particular area.
Corey
17:48
Well, to be fair, he dropped
Corey
17:50
He did drop out. He dropped out, but it was too late to come off the ballot.
Carter
17:53
Well, I'm sure that that impacted his votes substantially. Do you think he would have gotten 3%?
Carter
17:59
think he would have
Zain
17:59
have gotten 3%? 3%, 4%? I want to get to something. I get that. So I think you guys are, you
Zain
18:06
have interesting takes, but Carter, you run into the director of political operations for the NDP in the hallway. You're giving him free free advice, what would it be about
Zain
18:13
about Bob Hawksworth? And
Corey
18:14
And you can't say hire Corey Hogan. Yes.
Carter
18:16
I'm really surprised you came to me because I thought you would have gone to Corey Hogan, the shadow strategist for the MVP. Corey, what would you say?
Carter
18:24
You've got an orange crush there. Do you want to open it up right
Carter
18:26
Open up your orange crush there, Corey.
Carter
18:29
Oh, there you go.
Zain
18:30
go. Fully christened. Okay. Orange
Carter
18:31
Orange crush, baby. But you know what? What would you say? Here's what I would say. I would say you are better off having an open nomination than making sure that Bob Hawksworth is going to be your candidate. You have an existing candidate there who ran and did, by all accounts, a very good job of running against Jim Prentice. I would simply say let the people of Calgary Foothills decide if you want Bob Hawksworth to carry the NDP banner because there is absolutely no advantage to this Premier by adding his voice to
Zain
19:02
to her cabinet. Corey, you've got 30 seconds in heaven with the political director of the NDP. You're
Corey
19:06
You're on the high dog board. You're not going to walk down the stairs. we've got Bob Hawksworth he's going to be the candidate you've now got a you've got to do the double act of both managing expectations should you not win and and preparing and building up and talking about why this is a good thing for Calgary and let's be clear as much as Carter thinks that there's no value of adding Bob Hawksworth voice to the cabinet we've been talking for quite a few episodes about the the cabinet bench strength and how Calgary you're adding Are you adding any bench
Carter
19:36
bench strength by adding Bob Hawksworth?
Corey
19:37
Hawksworth? I absolutely believe you're adding strength with Bob
Carter
19:39
Bob Hawksworth. Oh, my God. Which Bob Hawksworth? The one who ran for mayor? Or the one who was
Zain
19:43
was a councillor? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. Next question.
Carter
19:47
You stopped us on that? I
Zain
19:48
I did. I did. It wasn't getting entertaining. I'm sorry. Mark
Zain
19:51
Mark McQuaid Boyd, energy minister, looked like a deer in the headlights when she found out on camera, it seemed like she found out for the first time on camera, that
Zain
19:59
that her new chief of staff was an anti-pipeline lobbyist. um
Zain
20:04
i just wanted to get your guys's opinion on this i and and the reason i stuttered there is because this was a brutally bad media scrum cory
Zain
20:13
cory give me your your your take first on that i'll go to you carter i scrums are hard a
Corey
20:18
a lot of people watch them well
Corey
20:20
well a lot of people watch scrums today i could do better hold on but
Carter
20:23
but did he just apologize did he just do
Corey
20:26
do an apology yourself you throw yourself out there steven you know this yeah it's it's a little harder okay and if she was Was blindsided? Wow. But that said, it was a pretty weak performance. She gave what seemed a bit like a talking point. A reporter said, that didn't answer my question. She immediately agreed with the reporter that it didn't answer her question. Then went on to say, essentially, it's the Premier's fault.
Corey
20:49
That was my favourite part. I've got to get out of here. I have a meeting. I have a meeting. And just taking off. It was almost like a British farce. Like, I could imagine that happening in an episode of Veep, actually.
Corey
21:02
actually. Yes, yes. Okay,
Zain
21:03
Okay, so you're right. You've surmised what happened very well. She was asked a question. She kept on repeating that it was her leadership, no one else's, that led this, and then fell into the unfortunate trap of saying, this chief of staff was not appointed under my leadership. It was someone else that gave them to me. So it was a poor move. But, I mean, Carter, do you agree? I want to get your take on that,
Carter
21:26
that, and then I've got a follow
Carter
21:27
question. Well, I totally agree. I mean, first of all, you can't say that, don't worry, it'll be my leadership in this department.
Carter
21:35
Someone else appointed me. And
Carter
21:36
And the second thing is... That's
Corey
21:38
I had no option. Yeah,
Carter
21:39
Yeah, I mean, I had no option. So, yeah, exactly. Suddenly you're cast in the role of John Turner. You know, when you made the media Brian Mulrooney and everything's falling apart around you.
Carter
21:49
But here's what I
Carter
21:51
I don't get. You
Carter
21:52
You get to spend 5, 10, 15 minutes with the guy prior
Carter
21:56
prior to your first scrum. You're going to talk to him. I mean, he's been in the office. He's been there. Don't you say?
Carter
22:02
So, what previous oil and gas experience have you got?
Carter
22:06
Oh, nothing much. I just was the head of this anti-pipeline lobbyist group. I mean, it should have come up, and they should have at the very least been prepared for it. And it just shows, again, they're not ready.
Corey
22:19
Corey, you had one something to add.
Corey
22:20
Well, I do think it should have come up. I do think that they should have pounded on the brakes when it came up. I'm sure it came up. but
Corey
22:27
but they've been having such a honeymoon I think they got blinded to some realities really this is not a mistake that the New Democrats would have made three
Corey
22:35
three weeks ago but every single thing they've been Teflon and when you're Teflon for too long you start to believe your own press you start to believe your own I this is what I was alluding to earlier and all of a sudden you start doing stupid things it could because you don't think you can do any wrong or you think that the public won't care you're not running it through those same checks and balances and filters that you should be running it through I
Corey
22:56
I don't think that But this Graham Mitchell, unfortunately, will have his job in
Corey
23:00
in a few days. If he does, I think that's a mistake by the New Democrats. And I'll tell you, you've
Corey
23:05
you've got your throne speech coming Monday. If we're still talking about this on Monday, wow, opportunity
Carter
23:12
We're going to be talking about this for a long time. I want to get
Zain
23:13
get to him in one second here, but I want to still give you guys the opportunity.
Zain
23:18
Margaret McQuaid Boyd said she had to run to a meeting. You're in the hallway. You find her before that meeting, and you have 30 seconds with her. What do you tell her before her next media scrum, Corey?
Corey
23:27
I tell her, unfortunately,
Corey
23:29
unfortunately, the time machine's in the shop. So what you've got to do is you've got to go and you've got to double down on your original message, which was actually not such a bad one, which
Corey
23:36
which is I'm the person in charge. Just flesh it out a bit. Yeah, we hired this person for his abilities, not because of the opinions of his former paymasters. I'm in charge. I'm setting the scene. This guy works for me. He's a talented guy. Look, and maybe this is easy for me to say as a consultant, this
Corey
23:54
this is what people do. They get jobs and they voice the opinions of their employers. Not everybody who works at Best Buy believes in everything Best Buy does.
Zain
24:03
Okay, so what I'm understanding you're saying is you patronize her and then tell her to double down. Carter.
Zain
24:09
don't mean to negate that, but
Carter
24:10
but yes, Carter. I'd tell her if she wants to lead, she needs to lead now. And the best way to lead... Was
Carter
24:17
Oh, yeah. I bet you, baby.
Carter
24:19
If you want to lead now, the only way to do it is to let this poor young man go. he
Carter
24:25
he uh he's going to tick off the oil and gas industry every time he walks into the room uh the the industry is going to be afraid to open their mouths and let part anything
Carter
24:34
anything vaguely resembling uh a strategy for fear that that's going to go right back uh to the to the uh the ngos the environmental uh ngos that are attacking this industry our industry the only industry in Alberta okay
Carter
24:54
forgot agriculture agriculture is picking up in the province of Alberta we anticipated from going from 1.7% of our gross net and domestic product to 1.9% it could be very exciting yeah
Corey
25:09
yeah well I don't know what to say that okay but one more thing about this issue which is it really sucks for the guy he didn't really do anything wrong in my opinion he took a job that was offered to him he's obviously passionate about the issue to a certain extent but
Corey
25:27
but now what the NDP have to do to win some points back is they have to go and say yeah we appointed him we
Corey
25:33
we hear you we want to be sensitive to you guys we're letting him go I mean they're gonna have to do it like that they can't do it backhandedly they can't kind of just say he never disclosed this anything along those lines will just look like passing the the buck.
Corey
25:46
It's going to be tough for them to make this look like strength and not weakness, but I do think there's a way for them to do it.
Zain
25:51
Okay, so you talked about the NDP and Teflon, and I know I said there's two questions in this segment. I want to add a third one very quickly based on what you were mentioning, Corey.
Zain
25:59
The throne speech is coming on Monday. You run into Rachel Notley or Brian Topp from the Premier's office. What's something you primed them for, warned them for in 30 seconds about this upcoming throne speech on Monday? What's something they have to do?
Corey
26:13
just give them 30 seconds of high fives and say, great job, guys.
Zain
26:17
Of course you do. Keep finishing your crush there. Carter, it's you and I talking.
Carter
26:22
I don't know that the advice that I want to give them is actually wise advice. The advice I want to give them is that it's time to start tackling the problems that face the province of Alberta.
Zain
26:35
You don't think they're going to do that? No, I
Carter
26:37
I don't believe that they're going to at all. First First of all, they're going to present a little mini-budget, their little supplementary estimates or whatever they need to bring forward. That's just stuff that needs to be done. The second thing they're going to do is they're going to bring their money bill, the elimination of corporate and union donations. I
Carter
26:56
I don't know what their third bill is going to be. It's not going to be anything that matters. I don't think that they're going to put in anything that changes the way that the health care is delivered. I don't think they're going to change the way education, post-secondary education is valued. Our problems in the province of Alberta are many, but
Carter
27:12
but they can be boiled down into simple themes. One is health care. We are not well enough. We get sick early and we die late. It's a very bad way of living. And their post-secondary education, we don't have enough knowledge being generated in our province. We have too much education
Carter
27:30
education being handed out, but not enough knowledge. and we
Carter
27:33
we don't have a diversified
Carter
27:34
diversified economy as a result. And that's why we're so dependent on this energy business. Although, you guys minimized it, making it sound like there is no energy business. Well, okay.
Zain
27:45
Thanks, Frederick. Corey, do you have anything to add to that, or can I
Corey
27:48
I move on? Well, I'm in the same boat as Carter as the advice I kind of want to give them comes from a place of policy, not politics. There's things I really want to see them do. And to me, the top of the list is to start moving on to the minimum wage. I think that's not
Carter
28:02
probably gonna be billed to all they
Corey
28:03
they talked about it knowing a bit They said that they're going to consult over the summer on that before they bring it in I I I just think that this is so important to so many people and is so Fundamental to the the underpinning issues that a lot of society is facing right now Which is that we're we're
Corey
28:19
we're living in in equal times and we're we're having a situation where look But it is not fair to me that somebody can work 40 hours a week and make $20,000 a year that's just wrong um and
Corey
28:32
and i would like them to show some real social justice chops if not on that then on something else big to show
Carter
28:39
show you i would i would rather not have it on the minimum wage i'd rather have it on a poverty initiative i know that there's supposed to be poverty initiatives the question is who's paying and
Carter
28:47
and when we put it all in the backs of small business it's not necessarily the back that should bear the load we
Corey
28:51
we will discuss more about the
Zain
28:53
the throne speech on
Carter
28:54
I'm sure did our socialist apologist get a little upset with my small business rant there?
Zain
29:02
More on the live show. We will talk about that on the live show Monday night. Enter near our theater. Okay.
Zain
29:08
I've only got one question in the next segment, but I like the title. Climaxing Too Early, The Tom Mulcair Story. It continues.
Zain
29:15
Get over yourselves. You're not that highbrow.
Zain
29:18
Look at this guy. He's enjoying himself.
Zain
29:23
Is it weird that Thelma Mulcair might be peaking too early? Is that weird to say right now?
Zain
29:28
I mean, he's just
Carter
29:28
just following waves, right? I mean, we've seen this time and time again. Politicians catch a wave at the wrong time and they lose. Justin Trudeau was everybody's favorite politician six months ago. He's no one's favorite politician today. Mulcair picked up the NDP wave as it was going through Alberta. And now it will crest and it will just dissipate all over the rest of the country. I don't suspect it'll be here on
Carter
29:54
on October 19th. And I don't think that that's the date that it's going to be there. Oh, interesting. So,
Corey
29:58
okay, Corey, yeah, go ahead. You talked about a wave six months. That was a wave he held on to for a year.
Corey
30:04
I don't know. I don't know that Mulcair does hold this wave. But I'll tell you, time is starting to get pretty short and summer is approaching. And there is a certain ossification that happens in the poles over the summer. Sure.
Corey
30:15
There's not that many days left. There's 20, 30 days, I think, before this campaign starts in earnest in real world, right? And then there's barbecue circuit and there's people like us who continue to talk about these things, but most people hit pause until Labor Day at this point. So
Zain
30:30
So we chatted about this in a few episodes ago. Is Tom Mulcair where he wants to be right now? Is he smiling his face? Listen, you don't look a
Carter
30:37
a gift horse in the mouth. When you catch a wave, you ride the wave. You don't say, oh, I wish it'd come two months later. You take the wave you're given and you try and ride it as long as you can.
Corey
30:48
Yeah, I'm sure that in his wildest dreams when he took this job, he was going to be 15 points up at this point. But
Corey
30:55
given where he was a year ago, he's got to be pretty, pretty satisfied.
Carter
30:59
satisfied. He's the forgotten man and now he's the one who's leading.
Zain
31:02
So you say these waves come and go. Are you implying, Carter, that Tom
Zain
31:05
Tom Mulcair and the NDP can do nothing much to sustain it on their own? And if that's not the case, what can they do?
Zain
31:14
Well, I'll tell you what they can do.
Carter
31:14
do. More likely than not, they can screw it up. Most waves are broken because someone screws it up. Danielle Smith, 2012, had the biggest possible wave available to her, and she screwed it up. Look at how Rachel Notley learned from that. What did Rachel Notley do the last seven days of the campaign? She went underground. ground.
Carter
31:34
Why did she go underground? Because she wouldn't screw up that way.
Carter
31:40
Thomas Mulcair, his greatest risk is that he's going to screw it up in some way.
Corey
31:43
And he's got a longer lead time. Corey, do you agree with that?
Corey
31:46
I don't agree with it any more than I agree with the comment being said about any of the other leaders at this point. I don't think Mulcair's got a big enough lead yet that the guns are pointed at him. I know that we're starting to hear rumors that there will be ads by both liberals and conservatives targeted at him. I heard whispers about him refinancing his house 11 times this week, which are old rumors, by the way. And there are a ton of reasons you might want to refinance your house, such as good investments or whatnot, if you have opportunities. But you're starting to hear that. But nobody's
Corey
32:13
nobody's going to launch a major counter Mulcair initiative with sincere thoughts of success in the middle of June or beyond. Like, we're in the summer now. This is going to have to wait until the fall.
Corey
32:26
And in the meantime, everybody else is just as susceptible to gaffes. as Mulcair is. Maybe even more so, frankly. Yeah, but this is
Carter
32:33
is the opportunity for the... So the liberals and the conservatives both need to be sitting down in their war rooms and figuring out, okay, the wave isn't with us right now. How are we going to find the next wave? And what is that next wave going to look like?
Corey
32:45
like? Where's our wind machine?
Carter
32:46
Where's our wind machine?
Carter
32:48
They can hire any of us.
Zain
32:50
You guys done? Okay, good. That was Climaxing Too Early to Tell Mulcair's Story. We will follow up on that with
Zain
32:55
with another dick joke very shortly in future episodes. Okay. Okay, moving
Zain
32:59
moving on, our last segment, the lightning round. You guys ready for this? Oh, yeah. Let's do it. Okay, who
Zain
33:04
who had the worst media scrum so far, Debra Drever or Mark McQuaid-Boyd? Mark
Carter
33:08
Mark McQuaid-Boyd had a way worse media scrum than Debra Drever. Quite,
Corey
33:12
Quite, because it was way more important. I mean,
Corey
33:15
remember Debra Drever's scrum? Like, if I had a bad media scrum, would that even register? I've
Carter
33:20
I've had bad media scrums. People remember.
Zain
33:25
Bob Hawksworth running for the nomination for the NDP in Foothills. Does he win it, yes or no?
Zain
33:30
He's going to win it.
Zain
33:31
And he's going to be their candidate. Yeah, the nomination, I think so.
Corey
33:34
wins the seat in
Corey
33:36
in Calgary Foothills? I don't know. I think that's anybody's game right now, but I would put money still on the PCs. I'd
Zain
33:42
I'd put my money on the Wild Ropes. Interesting. What percentage does the NDP get in that YYC Foothills race?
Zain
33:51
He's called it before. I'm going to go with Corey on this one.
Zain
33:55
Will the chief of staff to the energy minister get fired by the end of this weekend?
Zain
34:02
fired or he'll quit.
Zain
34:05
Corey? Carter, I should say.
Zain
34:07
I want to... I mean... Get through the constipation and maybe answer my question. I think he's going to get
Carter
34:11
get fired. I hate that. Okay.
Zain
34:14
On a scale of one to ten, how poorly will our live show go? Trick question.
Zain
34:20
don't know. I think it's a letter,
Corey
34:21
letter, not a number. Yeah,
Carter
34:22
Yeah, I'm going to
Zain
34:22
to give it... It's a letter, not a number. That is the absolute
Zain
34:25
absolute motto for our live show. That is episode 534 of The Strategist.
Zain
34:29
If you're in Calgary, we'll see you on Monday.
Zain
34:31
Engineered Air Theater, 7 o'clock doors, 7.30 is the show. Until next time.