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Zain: is the Strategist episode 1882. My name is Zane Velja. With me as always, Shannon Phillips and Stephen Carter. Friends of August, how are you? Oh
Carter: Oh my god, I'm so excited.
Carter: Are you excited
Zain: Are you excited to
SPEAKER_01: excited
Carter: excited to get your ass kicked and your ass handed to you again? You know what? There were some people who thought I held my own.
Zain: to
Zain: to get your ass kicked and
Zain: you again? You know what? There
Carter: No, there were no people who thought you held your own. There were three people who thought I made some good points.
Zain: people who thought you held your own.
Zain: Do they all live within your current domicile?
Carter: current domicile? No, even on the Discord, there were people who said that. Who gives a fuck? Okay, you guys, that was extremely last
Zain: Who
Shannon: Who
Zain: Who
Shannon: Who gives
Zain: gives a
Shannon: Okay, you guys, that was extremely last
Carter: last
Shannon: last
Carter: last
Shannon: last
Carter: last
Shannon: last
Carter: last
Shannon: last week.
Zain: last week.
Zain: Bunch
Shannon: Bunch of cucks. Just who cares about the Discord? We all know what we need to discuss, and that's obviously the Taylor whatever that fucking guy is. Travis Kelsey, how do you not know
Zain: Bunch of cucks. Just who cares about the Discord? We all know what
Zain: fucking guy is.
Carter: Travis Kelsey, how do you not know this? Oh,
Zain: Oh, yeah, speaking of things that are one-sided.
Carter: Oh, my
Zain: my God. The wedding of the greatest songwriter of our generation and a football dude, Stephen Carter. You have one fact on each of them that no one else in the universe has. What are they?
Carter: God.
Carter: What are they? Travis is the highest-receiving tight end in football history.
Zain: Highest-receiving. Okay, I wrote that down. Sorry, I didn't even know that was a term. Highest-receiving. Yeah, and then
Carter: I wrote that
Carter: Highest-receiving.
Carter: -receiving.
Carter: Yeah, and then Taylor Swift is the highest-grossing female artist of all time.
Zain: artist of all time.
Zain: Yep. Ah, okay. That's good, Carter. And you feel like no one else knew those facts. No,
Carter: No, one
Carter: one facts aren't unknown facts. Oh, I didn't know that. One facts are singular facts that you know that enabled you to get through the conversation.
Shannon: Oh,
Zain: Oh,
Shannon: Oh, I didn't know that. One facts are singular
Carter: Right? Right. So I know that Taylor Swift makes infinitely more money than Travis Kelsey. I
Carter: I know that. Do you feel like either
Zain: know that. Do you feel like either of these one facts would get you through a cocktail party if this were to be, let's say, the discussion for 20 minutes? Well, I also
Carter: for 20 minutes? Well, I also know something about the ring. Oh,
Carter: Oh, what do you know about the ring? The size of the ring. Me too. I looked at the pictures of the ring. That was great. Yeah, the ring was, oh my God. Yeah, the ring is great. Yeah, I mean, these are the people with most
Zain: what do you know about the ring? The size of
Shannon: of the ring. Me too. I looked at the pictures of the ring. That was great. Yeah, the ring
Shannon: Yeah, the ring is great. Yeah, I mean, these are the people with most
Carter: most
Zain: most money in the world. The ring should be great. hate yeah well okay i i get the hate for travis kelsey i do not get the hate for taylor swift i
Shannon: i don't have a hate for either of them i just don't super
Zain: them i
Carter: i just don't
Zain: don't super carter there's there's hate there's the hit in your heart carter no i
Carter: super
Shannon: super carter
Carter: carter
Shannon: carter
Carter: carter
Shannon: carter
Carter: carter
Shannon: carter
Carter: carter there's
Carter: no i quite like taylor swift i'm
Carter: i'm a little jealous of travis kelsey truth
Carter: be told good
Zain: do you want to can we clip that please clip that and send it directly to one heather mccray who
Carter: who i
Zain: i believe will appreciate that in fact let's post it and tag her i don't see see any I don't see any downside no downside whatsoever I don't see any dance well
Shannon: whatsoever
Carter: I
Shannon: I don't see any dance
SPEAKER_03: dance
SPEAKER_01: dance
Zain: I mean I she supported you through the last episode which was a complete train wreck so I this will probably not have any issue on your marriage whatsoever train
Carter: your marriage whatsoever train
Zain: train wreck there were people who supported me Carter Carter Carter you were justified at the end of that segment you pretty much said the end justify the means I in fact
Carter: train wreck there were people who supported me Carter
Carter: I in fact did say I think that's exactly what he said yeah in
Zain: I think that's exactly what he said yeah in
Zain: in fact no no right Right. Sorry, it wasn't at the end. That was the core of your argument. That was the core
Carter: in fact no
Carter: That was the core of my argument.
Carter: You were losing before
Zain: were losing before it began. Shannon, how are you? Have you taken your victory in stride and humbly?
Shannon: Oh, yeah. I forgot about it until just now. That's
Zain: That's how often she wins. She keeps winning, Carter. She wins all the time.
Carter: That's
Carter: Yeah. Yeah, that's not what we do.
Zain: You know, I didn't want to go here. Can I pick up on this? Shannon, this will be a hard transition into politics. politics.
Zain: Who's the biggest PR loser if Air Canada flight attendants vote down this deal? So what ultimately happens is if they vote down this deal, it goes to arbitration. I don't know if that's binding arbitration. Shannon, you may have a better sense of it. I'm just headline reading here. And I'll admit that. But who's like the biggest political PR loser in this? Is it Air Canada? Is it the flight attendants? Is it CUPE again? How does this play? Should these flight attendants who start voting tomorrow vote this deal down it's
Shannon: it's super rough uh for the union right because if they're recommending a deal to members and members are like no get uh get out of here uh
Shannon: uh that means that the that the union leadership has
Shannon: has misread their membership and uh i'm not sure if it's binding or if it's just regular arbitration either i'm not as up on how things work with
SPEAKER_02: on how things work with the federally regulated
Shannon: federally regulated industries but the point is is that like it's super rough for qp because Because then QP has basically lost the plot with their own members. And I doubt that will happen. To be honest, it very rarely happens.
Shannon: And so I would think this thing will pass through.
Zain: Carter, I'll get your prediction as well, because Shannon gave me hers. But who's the biggest political PR loser if this thing doesn't pass by the membership, who ultimately, for folks, understand the union presents a deal, negotiates a deal, presents a deal the members have to vote on it to ratify it to make it official well
Carter: well i mean political loser would have to be mark carney right
Carter: right like forget about the actual losers who i think is uh who shannon
Carter: shannon has described i'm going to go with political loser and
Carter: and the political loser is mark carney he's the one who stepped in uh
Carter: uh took the the political chance in order to stop this deal and it uh it just didn't happen so i i would say that it's mark carney's the who's the biggest political loser shannon
Zain: shannon what do you think of that do you feel like carney loses here like they they stepped in carter was supportive you can listen to that 20 minutes um but he
Zain: makes an interesting point like carney stepped in i would argue prematurely i think you and i both argued not prematurely sure
Shannon: prematurely sure prematurely justified um yeah
Zain: prematurely justified um yeah
Zain: yeah sure probably took a bit of a a you know a shit kicking for that at least momentarily do you feel like he wears any of this shannon if this doesn't across the finish line this week?
Shannon: I don't know if publicly. I think it adds another proof point, though, and just another data point in terms of people are getting a raw deal out there and the government doesn't have my back.
Shannon: And that's the piece that's the vulnerability for Carney. We saw that in the Abacus data, the poll that they put out, that they did on behalf of the union, but I think there was some other polling that Abacus did on Carney's strengths and weaknesses. And, you know, obviously, his strengths, you know, super solid on like, send him out onto the world stage, negotiate with Trump, manage the economy, you know, all those sort of big files. But his one weakness was understands what people like me go through. And I think they're missing the mark. It might not actually stick to him at all. But it's for the labor movement, certainly. It's another proof point. and i wouldn't you know a lot of people would be you know oh well like qp is mostly public sector workers yada yada you know i've heard people say stuff like that the
SPEAKER_00: that's
Shannon: the fact of the matter is is that there are a lot of private sector workers that um are counting on carny with respect to the uh negotiations with the united states uh and with opening up new markets and so on protecting those jobs right whether it's in forestry steel and aluminum or auto And
Shannon: that's where losing the plot for him can be both policy dicey and politically dicey. But the overall narrative of like, does he get what I'm going through? The conservatives are still stronger than him on that metric. And that's their one vulnerability.
Zain: One more thing on this, and Shannon, I'll start with you again. What can the union do tonight, heading into tomorrow when when the members start voting to try to reach to make this a successful deal? I guess the question is fundamentally, what instruments like help the public understand what instruments does a labor union have on their members to push through a deal? And I'm not talking about like push it through ham fistedly, but like what's their persuasion technique? What tools do they have? What do they normally do in this situation? Because it might be a bit of a black box to the public between now and when the results come in. But what is the union doing tonight, tomorrow, heading into this voting period? What do you think? I
Shannon: I mean, they're not doing a whole lot right now, but what they have been doing is communicating to members what the deal entails, right? Because even that, for a large membership like this, you're going to need to do a little bit of that. And what happens if you vote no,
Shannon: right? That's usually what, like, it's usually a pretty crisp, straightforward message because, you know, while, you know, union bargaining team is recommending the deal, they're not like out there selling in the same way that we think of political marketing and selling.
SPEAKER_03: That's usually
SPEAKER_00: think of political marketing and selling.
Zain: there's no earned media play there's no media relations play here this is entirely internal that's right yeah
Shannon: there's no
Shannon: that's right yeah and and basically they're saying like if we vote this down here's why we accepted this deal essentially and if we vote this down here's what happens the next steps are x y and z and basically you're super taking your chances and all of the things that we did win and sometimes it's non-monetaries and sometimes it's other things like they ask people to to kind
SPEAKER_00: all of the things
SPEAKER_02: things
Shannon: kind of consider Consider the whole deal.
Shannon: Right. And if we have to go back to the drawing board, then we're then we're opening up the agreement for all of these other things that were kind of settled out when we got down to the, you know, the unpaid work or whatever the sticky points were. And so oftentimes they'll just be educating members like, look, we want all this stuff. And we go way back to way before the strike vote. Like we start at square one again. And that really, really sucks. And there's huge downsides for doing it. And that's why we accepted this deal, even if you're not super jazzed about all of the aspects of that deal.
Zain: Strategist Stephen Carter, there is a timeline, there's an opponent, there is a threshold for what success looks like. This sounds like the world of a strategist in some ways. You know, we talk about most of this being internal. We talk about, and Shannon, I appreciate that, but I will also say I expected that answer in some degree, right? Like pretty conventional, this is inside baseball, you push through the messaging, you're not doing anything to ruffle feathers. There's Carter.
Zain: Should they, though? Or is the conventional approach the right approach here? Or is there some strategic marketing innovations that a union should consider as they try to encourage, ever so lightly, but perhaps not so, their members to vote this deal? Because I tend to agree with Shannon that it's potentially CUPE that wears egg on their face should this thing not pass and ratify in the next number of days. I
Carter: was talking with a labor organizer last week and they were talking about how, you
Carter: know, what happens if they endorse a political candidate. If they endorse a political candidate, it almost works 180 degrees in the opposite direction. Say
Carter: Say
Zain: Say that again. You mean if this is a union, it's not related to this situation. You know, we're
Carter: Say that
Carter: a union, it's not related to this situation. You know, we're going to vote for Rachel Notley, right? Back in the day, we're going to vote for Rachel Notley. Surprise pick. She didn't know that's where they'd go. The membership loses their shit. And
Zain: Surprise pick. She didn't know that's where they'd go. The membership
Zain: their shit.
Carter: And they say, well, you don't tell us what to do. You're not going to, you're not the boss of us. We're going to vote the way we want to vote. And it may even have a negative impact. And I suspect that if QP were to take a sales-focused, sell the membership on
Carter: on this deal, you'd have the very same type of negative backlash. Exactly. The best you can do is to say, this is what it is. This is what happens if it doesn't go through. Very non-committal, very much non-sales-focused.
Shannon: Exactly. The best you can
Shannon: is
Carter: And that way, you're not putting your thumb on the scale. Because if you put your thumb on the scale, they're going to see and they're going to overreact.
Zain: Is there any room for your boy Carney to put his thumb on the scale, Carter? I mean, he went halfway. Why not go all the way?
Zain: I'm being facetious, but isn't the logical extension of Mark Carney triggering binding arbitration to kind of not have the politics of this sour on him?
Carter: No, I think that there's
Carter: there's lots of room to let this unfold as it was going to. There's no reason for Mark Carney to get more involved. he's off uh negotiating peace world peace in europe um let him do that that's a far more productive use of his time than uh labor peace here and and and really i mean just world peace carter
Zain: just world peace carter oh is that what we're saying he's doing okay why
Carter: why not shannon said something earlier about
Zain: shannon said something earlier about
Carter: about the labor movement and i was just like oh
Carter: oh no oh no the labor movement in canada is mad at me oh no that's gonna have real impact for about seven minutes it
Shannon: it just isn't the same as it once was if
Shannon: if that were the case carter then pierre paliova wouldn't be spending all of this political capital sucking up to them and
Shannon: writing a bunch of checks his ass can't cash because that's exactly what he's doing that's what he did during the the our canada strike he did it in the platform there's a reason why they pulled out a bunch of stuff in the platform that was anti-union why would he do that if there was no political payoff in doing it i
SPEAKER_00: what he did during the
Zain: i i tend to agree with shannon And I think it's less about the labor movement and more so about the members, consolidated groups that exist through at least some shared values. We
Zain: We have fewer and fewer of those going forward. And yes, I and like my personal politics obviously agree with what labor has to say. Your bias is already
Carter: what labor has
Carter: Your bias is already there. Your bias is noted.
Zain: is noted.
Zain: noted. No, it isn't. Maybe once again, I'll say this to you. The new orange. I'll say what I said to you on the Jesperson show. show maybe listen for once maybe listen maybe let someone let me let someone complete this statement i feel like it was advice you did not take i was advice you did not take then probably advice probably not gonna take
Carter: isn't. Maybe once again, I'll say this to you.
SPEAKER_03: The
Carter: The new orange.
SPEAKER_03: me let someone
Carter: someone
SPEAKER_03: i
Carter: i feel like it was advice you
Carter: probably not gonna take it now no yeah then
Zain: yeah then why would i why would i dispense it then carter why would i waste my time dispensing it let's move it on to our first segment our first segment make alberta canada again forever let us talk about this petition carter you and i got into it i was speaking to jespers and you and i got into it yeah
Carter: why would i dispense
Carter: dispense it then carter
Carter: yeah on
Zain: on that show last week i want to bring that that conversation or a version of i'll remove myself as much as i can to this show because i want to talk about if the forever canada petition is working and i want to talk about what does working mean and what does success mean uh for this petition so just to break everyone up to speed maybe our non-alberta listeners or for those who are enjoying a normal summer not recording a podcast which carter why are we doing this like who do we
Carter: we doing this like who do we owe this to why are
SPEAKER_03: are
Carter: are
Zain: are we doing this why Why are we doing this? I don't know. I don't think we owe it to anybody, to be honest. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing
Carter: are we doing this why Why are we doing this? I
Carter: to be honest. Yeah, I mean, there's nothing happening except Thomas Lukasik's little play toy.
Zain: So Thomas Lukasik started an organization that I believe is called Forever Canada or Forever Canadian. I don't want to get it wrong, but I probably have. Well, you did, but you took two
Carter: Well, you did, but you took two choices at it. Yeah, there you go. Which means one of them is wrong, at least.
Zain: Yeah, there you go. Which
Zain: If you would have listened, see previous note, I just said that. I'm
Carter: I'm just helping.
Zain: The question is, do you agree that Alberta should remain in Canada? Canada Elections Alberta approved this petition on June 30th, so July 1st. It allowed signature collection to begin on August 2nd, and Lukasik and this group have
Zain: to collect. And I'm just going to set the facts out for folks, right? 293,000 some odd signatures by the date October 28th, 2025, so not a lot of time.
Shannon: so not a lot
Shannon: Collection
Zain: Collection began on the 2nd of August. By the end of October, they need just under 300,000 signatures, i.e. 10% of Alberta's electorate. If it succeeds, the petition will go to the legislature and could trigger a referendum before the 2027 provincial election. The reason I bring all these facts up is that things, according to Thomas Lukasik, seem to be going well. There was a Canadian press profile that highlighted him up front and center with his beautiful T-shirt. Laugh as you much. No, no. As much as you would like.
Carter: No, no. As much as you would like. Profiles are going to get him there.
Carter: Profiles are what he needs.
Zain: seems like success is happening on the ground. So I want to actually set the table, because, Carter, you and I have set the table before the signature collection happened with Corey. We've talked about this in other places. Let me start with the most basic of questions, and
Carter: We've talked
Zain: I'll start with you, Carter. What does success look like here?
Carter: 294,000 signatures is what success looks like. There is no middling success. You have put the question on the table. You have said, we want to remain, and now you have to actually achieve that goal. hole uh 294 000 signatures uh did in the profile piece zane yes maybe shannon you know um did he happen to mention how many signatures they'd gathered to this point no
Zain: yes maybe
Shannon: maybe shannon you
Shannon: no but i don't think they know that yet because a lot of these elbows up boomers that are out there uh uh collecting them i have them you know neatly stored in their clipboards and haven't turned them in yet no no no no no
Carter: no no no that doesn't count because every one of these people who is collecting has to be be an official um that's official collector right like it there are they're they're not just some joe on the street walking around with a form trying to get signatures they have to be authorized by the campaign in order what i'm saying is like
Shannon: official collector
Shannon: authorized by
Shannon: by the campaign
Shannon: in order what i'm saying is like people that list
Carter: that
Carter: list is known that
Shannon: list is known that
Shannon: list is known the volunteers tonight i
Carter: list is known the
Carter: the volunteers tonight i could email them all tonight to get those those those people to send me the numbers that they've collected to this point
Carter: and and and quite frankly when we're doing campaigns we often reach out to scrutineers we often reach out to volunteers in fact i've got metrics for for 28 different campaigns that i'm running right now on my computer that i update every single week to make sure that i'm on track the question is did thomas lukasik happen to mention how many fucking signatures he's gathered in the first half of
Shannon: half of this
Carter: this fucking campaign
Shannon: campaign so so so success for you carter looks like 294 000 and i and i think that i mean you and i carter have both poo-pooed this in the past on this show but i have revised my opinion a little bit since i went into some of the volunteer groups in the and and i'm looking at the action on the ground on it basically it's elbows up boomers on facebook is what it is and they have got p and i rl yeah they They are ready to roll. They're sitting in their driveways. They're going to – there were literally hundreds of people lined up in Lethbridge. Hundreds. Hundreds. Like old-ass boomers standing in the 30-degree heat to sign a petition. It was wild. 294,000.
SPEAKER_00: campaign so
Carter: so
Carter: so so
SPEAKER_00: so so success
SPEAKER_00: and i and
SPEAKER_00: past on this show
SPEAKER_00: got
Zain: got
Zain: i rl yeah
Carter: up in Lethbridge.
Carter: ,000.
Shannon: ,000. Yeah, I get that, Connor.
Carter: Connor.
Zain: Connor.
Zain: I've got – okay, Shannon, thank you. I appreciate you setting kind of your flag and where it's at. Let me interject because I can go one of two ways. But let me just go the most obvious way. why
Zain: why
Carter: why are you
Zain: you so fucking cynical carter because
Zain: because like this is someone doing this is a group for take lucasic out of it for me this is a what
SPEAKER_01: for me this
Carter: this
SPEAKER_01: this
Zain: is it about lucas is you
Carter: is
SPEAKER_01: is it about lucas is
Zain: sound you sound like you have said in the past on different issues that doing something for the purpose of building organization and serving as a rallying cry is worth it so unless this is another bit i'm truly really trying to understand why this is
Carter: why this is
Carter: is a dumb ass idea i
Carter: mean at the very least do this for something that matters yeah the country matters which is why i put my my name to endorse it explain
Zain: country matters
Zain: put my my name to endorse it explain explain i'm
Carter: i'm genuinely trying to understand the lineup of a couple dozen boomers in my neighborhood um
Zain: i'm genuinely trying to understand the
Carter: um you're
Carter: you're going to capture all of the signatures in the first 60 days nothing you're and people are going to be walking around shopping malls getting kicked out trying to get more signatures.
Zain: It's just not going to happen.
Zain: It's not cynicism.
Carter: It's not cynicism. It's reality. And when it doesn't happen, it gets to be turned into a more negative story.
Zain: more negative
Zain: Let me let me explain that to me. So I'll let you walk us through what your reality looks like in the coming months and days. Right. So let me give you some stats because you asked a question and I'll tell you what the article said. They have 3000 people that are volunteering. They've acknowledged the 300,000 number that they need to hit. They threw out a story saying, you know, one person in Calgary gave them 8000 signatures in a day. Right. They've mentioned they have got 20 to 30 events per day on their website that are signature gathering events that they've had. So the answer to your question is no, they haven't told us how many signatures they've gotten to the 300,000. But these are some of the stats they have given. That all being said, Carter, I'm going to give you the opportunity to – because I'm genuinely curious here. I'm judging you a bit, but I'm willing to, like, put that aside. Give me the Stephen Carter strategist case of what happens if Thomas Lukasik doesn't hit 300,000. You're saying that there's a bigger failure here than all the efforts combined if he doesn't hit the one metric of success that you put out there. I'm
Carter: I'm just trying to figure out how someone does 8,000 signatures in a day. Like,
Carter: what are you doing? Yeah,
Zain: that's what it's – I'm just giving you what the – No, but this is
Carter: giving you what the – No, but this is all the spin. And when it ultimately falls short, when
Zain: when it ultimately falls short,
Carter: when it ultimately falls short, the opposition gets to say, see, you couldn't even get 300,000 signatures for people to stay in Canada. Sorry, who's the opposition being? The opposition being the group that wants to separate. Okay.
Zain: Sorry, who's the opposition being? The opposition being the group
Carter: Okay. Right? Now then they get to have a go at it, right?
Carter: right? This is just playing straight into their hands. With
Carter: With the reduced threshold,
Zain: With the reduced threshold, to be clear, right? With the reduced threshold,
Carter: right? With the reduced threshold, they get to aim for 167,000 signatures or some dumbass thing. I
Carter: I think half
Zain: I think half of this, I believe, if I'm not mistaken. Whatever the number is, it doesn't matter.
Carter: Whatever the number is, it doesn't matter. The number is the number. The politics of this isn't going to change. As long as we are talking about separatism, we are losing, period. End of story. End of story. Your
Zain: End of story. Your story here is that the failure is that if Lukasik and co. don't get the number, you give the separatists a chance to have a go at it, which was always going to be the default case.
Carter: They were always
Zain: They were always
Shannon: always going to fail first.
Carter: always going to fail first. Let them fail. Don't go out. This was the problem with the strategy from the beginning. This is why we criticized the strategy from the beginning. Some
Shannon: This is why we criticized the
SPEAKER_00: from
Shannon: from the beginning. Some
Carter: Some of us have the internal fortitude to stay strong on the strategies that we articulate from the beginning and not flip over because she saw 300 people lined up in a parking lot of the fucking Sobeys. Right? Like, fucking
Carter: grab some, you know, internal strength, Shannon. Shannon, this was a bad idea from the beginning.
Shannon: Shannon. Shannon, this
Shannon: this was a bad
Shannon: Here's the thing. Once the horse is out at the barn, first of all, I think that it is up to all of us to support efforts for Alberta to remain in Canada as a matter of principle. And I don't think there's any more important, basically, thing to articulate over this summer to push back against Daniel Smith's separatist misadventures. So that's the first piece. The second thing is, what I have seen is
Shannon: is analogous to some of the pushback that I saw during the CPP fight.
Shannon: But it's way bigger, and
Shannon: and way more.
Shannon: And it's summer and people are not paying attention. And yet, here these people are paying attention. I think we have to, I really do believe that we have to grab onto anything that catches people's attention right now, if it's for quote unquote, our side, and make common cause and push back. And that's where I do see enthusiasm, people are excited about this. And I am not in the business as, you know, a political has been, but was once a politician of getting in the way of people's good time. If people are enthusiastic about something that, you know, roughly comports to your values, we should be excited about it. It's important for civil society. It's important for people's, you know, sense of attachment. It's important for, you know, just the ongoing subsistence of liberal democratic values for people to put their oar in the water and get and do some organizing in the old fashioned way. And I don't care that, you know, it's a guy whose politics I profoundly dislike,
Shannon: dislike, or at least his historical politics. I really don't. Are
Zain: Are
Carter: Are you talking about Thomas here? I'm talking about Lacazette. He was the Minister of Education when I was... Yeah, I
Zain: you talking about
Shannon: about Thomas here? I'm talking about Lacazette. He was the Minister of Education
Shannon: Yeah, I mean, like... Kind of a big deal. He was a pretty anti-union guy. And, like, I don't like his politics, but that doesn't matter at all. Wasn't a fan of Ed Stelmack's politics either. I was a New Democrat, right, when there were four of them. But I do think that this is important. I do think it's important for all Albertans of good faith and good conscience to push back against this separatist nonsense Because within the separatist idea bucket is a whole bunch of really, really revanchist, regressive bullshit that is rooted in racist tropes on her views on immigration, that is about privatizing public services. So every single time that we have thousands of Albertans, and I actually don't care if they meet the 294, I think if they even come close to
Carter: like... Kind of a big deal. He
Carter: anti-union guy.
Carter: politics, but
Shannon: what the half-er is, the 150 or whatever, the one that the actual separatists will be held to, I think if they come close to that… It's 177,
Zain: to that… It's 177, just so everyone's aware. Yeah, so
Shannon: everyone's aware. Yeah, so if they come close to that, that's more of a metric of success, I think, because I do not believe that those separatists will be able to organize a two-car parade, right? So they won't come close to the 177.
Carter: OK, but let's let us play a game, right?
Carter: right? Let
Carter: Let us say that Thomas Lukasik raises and gets 150,000 signatures. And our good friends, the crazy ass separatists, get themselves 58,000 signatures. If Danielle Smith wants to push this, you know what she does? She
Carter: She says, she says,
Zain: she says, look at this. We've
Carter: says,
Carter: says,
Carter: says, look at this. We've met the threshold because ultimately the government can put whatever fucking question they want on any ballot. ballot
Carter: ballot and this gives credence but to the question being added to the fucking ballot if it wasn't province this is okay this is exactly and now
Shannon: to the question being
Shannon: if it wasn't
Zain: wasn't province
Zain: is okay this is exactly and now
Carter: now i'm getting talked over by both listen listen
Carter: listen once in a while shen
Zain: once in
Zain: shen the white man is speaking please sorry oh my god
Carter: oh my god
Zain: episode title just uh the white man is speaking all caps damn right yeah yeah please just i just want that to be the episode so title thank you um carter hits actually on something interesting and shannon you go you're going exactly where i want to go which is carter you at least seem to be implying that she's not going to find another excuse the all of this is with the assumption that we are getting a referendum question either way might as well organize and or in the in the and i agree with the two of you uh that there's a slimmer chance that the kazakh hits the 300 000 like best of luck i hope they do but in the off chance that that they do that becomes a question but at the very least carter they're building an org apparatus for when the actual day comes and we need to be able to fight this question on its own merits a separate organizational strategy
Carter: episode title just
Carter: merits a separate organizational strategy than the one that we have in party politics like this isn't going to be a standalone question this is going to happen at the same time as a provincial election we don't need a standalone organizational organizational structure. We need an organizational structure that folds in to the political parties that exist.
Zain: What's what's to say that this can't fold into anything, that this can't be an apparatus that then says the best way to to support the Canadian cause is to vote for new Democrats, for example, or some version of that? Like, I don't understand it. You're just making an assumption based out of nothing, that this this won't have the ability to tie into something that's going to be paired with the general election in this province. Write
Carter: Write it down. See
Carter: Write it down. This group is not going to come together. I don't need to write shit down.
Zain: Write it down.
Zain: I don't need to write shit down. I just said it to thousands of people on the podcast.
Carter: to thousands of people on the podcast.
Carter: Tens of thousands of people.
Zain: Tens of thousands of people.
Carter: Let's try and be accurate. But why? Why?
Zain: Let's try and be accurate. But why? Why?
Zain: This is what I'm asking you genuinely. Why are you so cynical that this could actually amount to something? Even if they don't hit the mark, okay. But why are you cynical that this can plug into something? Because Daniel Smith's approval rating is
Carter: Because Daniel Smith's approval rating is still in the 60s.
Carter: Because we're fucked. That's divorced. Divorced from. So this is not divorced. This is not divorced. These
Zain: That's divorced.
Zain: this is not divorced. This is not divorced.
Carter: things don't divorce. These things work hand in hand and
Carter: they're going to come together. Daniel Smith's approval is
Zain: to come together. Daniel Smith's approval is in the 60s. So this group shouldn't organize. Like, what am I missing here, Carter? Like, I'm not trying
Carter: Like, I'm not trying to be. This group shouldn't be organizing. The group that's not organizing is the NDP in Alberta.
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Zain: Let's talk about this. I've got four strategy questions. I'll let you react to this, but I want to set the table for our listeners in terms of where I want to go and for the two of you. I've got four strategy questions or just topics I want to hit on that are interesting. The NDP is one of them, Carter, so you hit on it. I want to talk about their strategy here and how they think about their world and their universe. I use the term plug-in. How do they plug into this? this? Do they plug into this? Do they do their own thing? What is their universe around this question need to look like? That's question one. I do want to talk for a second about Thomas Lukasik, because he is a person with the profile that is now getting a bigger profile a decade or so later from what you would think was his political high watermark. So I want to talk about that for half a second.
Carter: Let's talk about this. I've
Zain: I do want to talk about the premier strategy here. As you know, she's been wedged on the question of whether she'd sign this thing. I want to talk about that And then finally, I want to talk about the rest of Canada. What sort of PR effort needs to happen to try to broadcast this petition to the rest of Canada? We are talking about Canada at its core, as much as we're talking about Alberta. Does it matter if the rest of the country knows about this? And does Alberta operate in the same way that Canada does, which is if people outside of your four walls are talking about it, you start to notice more. So I want to talk about those four strategy questions in some way. But before any of that, Shannon, I'll let you react to what Carter's put down thus far in my back and forth with him right now. Well,
Shannon: Well, at
Shannon: first, I agreed with Carter that I wasn't sure about this strategy, but, you know, it turns out people don't listen to us. And so they went forward and did it. Now that the horse is out of the barn, and it is happening.
Shannon: I'm seeing some really, really interesting things happening on the ground. I'm seeing it in rural communities, where you
Shannon: you don't want this question filtered through a partisan lens. You actually do want some distance. You mean a new Democrat one in this case? Yeah, yeah, right? Because you're getting all kinds of old farmers that will absolutely sign the petition because they believe that all British remain in Canada and they're not convinced on the separatist stuff that's coming under the UCP, but they think in the main, conservatives exist in Edmonton to kind of send Ottawa a message, right?
Zain: distance. You mean a new Democrat one in this case? Yeah, yeah, right?
Shannon: But it's reaching those folks. And it's also giving hope and enthusiasm to the people who are – Because those people are within the NDP universe, whether they are in Edmonton or in Claire's home. And it's giving them something to do and feeling like they are doing something. And in this day and age, feeling like you're doing something, like you're getting any traction whatsoever, is very, very tough to find in politics, that feeling of common cause with one another. And so that's the gift that it gives. As for what the NDP should be doing in this, I do think that they should be not exactly hiding from these petition gathering, you know, signature gathering exercises. I think that their MLAs should be registered canvassers and collecting signatures because I just think it's a nice way to interact with your constituents. Like it's low stakes and the people, especially if you're talking to your already identified, you know, supporters, leaners or undecideds from the last election, then you've got something again for people to do and a clear thing to engage on. I don't think they need to be, you know, carrying the storming the barricades on this and, you know, carrying it forward. I think it's fine that it's Lukasik.
SPEAKER_00: that's
Shannon: But now that it's happening, I think it's good for the NDP to have, again, that sense of connection to what their engaged constituents think about their activist base, right? The base voters are different than the activist base and the activist base is, believe me, is engaged on this in New Democrat land. I have seen them all over the groups, and I know all, like, I see them, and there's all these names, and I'm like, yeah, of course I know that person, I know that person. When you go into their Facebook groups, it's the activist base that has got something to do, and that is awesome.
Zain: is awesome.
Zain: Carter, the New Democrat strategy.
Zain: Shannon makes an interesting point, that Forever Canada's universe could be different. I'm not saying larger, but could be different than the NDP one. And should there be a way to plug those in ultimately, that this could be a strategy for the NDP where they are able to take advantage of that? A,
Zain: A, do you buy that? And B, what do you think the NDP strategy should be more writ large? Now that we are past the August threshold, we're seeing some of the activity happen with Forever Canada. What should the NDP doing here? I'll let you get a shot in both of those questions.
Carter: I'll let you get a shot in
Carter: of those questions. I agree with Shannon in terms of the infiltration component.
Carter: I felt like the
Carter: the NDP should have infiltrated the Jyoti Gandak campaign in 2021. when
Carter: when there was an opportunity for them to pick
Carter: pick up an awful lot of support, understand what the Calgary voters wanted, have voters and volunteers from across the city working with them. I think it would have made a difference in the subsequent provincial election that Rachel Notley lost, primarily in Calgary.
Carter: I
Carter: I also think that they should integrate more into the civic elections here in 2025. I
Carter: I think that infiltration and co-opting of existing structures and strategies is great. They need to be doing it at every level. Can you walk me through that? What does
Zain: Can you walk me through that? What does that mean? I'm really curious what that means. Because I have something in my head, which is people who wear official orange shirts, proverbially, right, just jumping into every campaign and collecting all their data and taking it back to the mothership. like but what that's that's what i think what do you mean no no what do you mean carter what i mean is
SPEAKER_01: what i think what do you mean no
Carter: what i mean is that you go in you go in and you join the campaign at a senior level because of any of these any of these viable marils any of these campaigns you join at a senior level you integrate with the people who aren't of your tribe and you and you get and you get to know their names you get to know who they are you exchange telephone numbers you build relationships you build your social network structure carter
Zain: because of any of these any of these viable marils any of these campaigns you
Carter: carter
Carter: carter is talking about
Shannon: carter is talking about something different though then like this forever canadian thing is like activist base it's not professionalized organizers it's just like it's literally elbows up boomers right and and they're just like give me something to do what carter's talking about is about the no no no one is believe me believe me no one organizes my mother my god that woman um but let
Carter: give me something to do what
SPEAKER_00: carter's
Carter: carter's talking about is about
SPEAKER_00: no
Carter: no no one is believe me
Zain: let me tell you something i don't want to out this person and but this is a a person in my network if
Zain: i was given a list of a hundred people randomly i'd say who could be potentially organizing this person would not be on the list exactly like what no like no that's crazy and what i got was a phone call from that person being like will you sign this i'm like you're asking me like
Shannon: exactly like what
Zain: not because i don't agree but you're the one who's initiating the calls going this way so i tend to agree with shannon there's something happening here carter and maybe Maybe it's just anecdotal, and maybe we're too plugged into this universe, but I don't know if that's the case. I really don't. What Carter's talking about
SPEAKER_01: initiating
Shannon: don't. What Carter's talking about is a different thing, which is also important and probably should happen at the professional level to the party. And I'll indulge him on that. Right? Yeah. I
Zain: happen at
Zain: professional level to the party. And I'll indulge him on that. Right? Yeah. I indulged him on that to kind of get a clear understanding of what he meant by infiltrate. He meant be on a campaign, but he used the term infiltrate, but that's fine. He likes to do that. Let me just
Shannon: on
Carter: clear understanding of what he meant by infiltrate.
Carter: to do that. Let me just say that 8,000 signatures in a day, in a 24-hour day, means you're getting a signature every 10 seconds. If it's only eight hours a day, you're getting a signature every three seconds. So very impressive from that gentleman or woman. Forever Canada, forever, forever, forever sliding. It's possible he handed
Zain: very impressive
Zain: from that gentleman
Shannon: woman. Forever Canada, forever, forever, forever sliding. It's possible he handed them in on one day but had, you know, taken a couple of weeks to gather them. No, but that's not what was said in the media. That's not what was said to us. I
Carter: day but
Carter: to gather them. No, but that's not what was said
Carter: was said to us. I didn't see the
Shannon: the click.
Carter: click.
Shannon: click.
Carter: click. I'm just noting it. Go ahead and talk your talking points, my friend.
Shannon: I'm
Zain: Carter, walk me through more, though. Walk me through more, because I interrupted you. I asked for clarification on what infiltrate meant. Okay. You agree with how Forever Canada, their aperture could be different than the New Democrat one. So you agree with that point. What should the NDP strategy be beyond that? Beyond the, should they be starting their own campaign? Should they be, walk me through this. Should they be setting up their own sort of version of this? Should they be piggyback simply on this? Should they push the timeline, push the narrative? Should they be trying to use their muscular abilities, communications list-wise to push this?
Zain: Give me some answers here. What would you be doing? Well,
Carter: I'd be probably saying, okay, if there is no real structure, then let's provide some structure and let's provide some structure through our own people, right? Let's assume that this ad hoc group can maybe get 150,000 signatures. Can the NDP generate 100,000 signatures within their own tribal
Carter: tribal subset using a actual organized structure, right?
Carter: right? Right. Where you've got captains
Carter: captains and lieutenants and people who
Carter: who are who are marshalling
Carter: marshalling larger groups. I mean, ultimately, politics is the largest pyramid scheme that
Carter: that you have. Right.
Carter: You're activating large groups of people in small groups. So you have to try and figure out how do we get 100000 signatures? Jump in. Be a part of it. If you want to be a part of it, then fucking be a part of it.
Zain: Shannon, anything to add on the NDP side? I'll move to the next sort of strategic question. What other roles that we have not talked about or tactics or strategies should the new Democrats here in Alberta be playing on this particular file?
Shannon: Well, I just, like I said before, you know, I went to the Ralph Klein School of Politics. If you see a parade, get in front of it. This isn't a parade.
Carter: This isn't a
Carter: Well, it is. It's not.
Shannon: Well, it is.
Shannon: It's
Carter: It's going to be a flash in the pan. You're on Boomer Carter. Go online or on Facebook. You'll see. Let's see what all your Boomer friends are doing.
Shannon: It's going to be a flash in the pan. You're on Boomer Carter. Go online or on Facebook.
Shannon: You'll see. Let's see what all your Boomer friends are doing.
Carter: No, I've seen it. I've seen it now six or seven times with lineups of up to 15 or 20 people.
Shannon: But so I think that they need to find a way to plug in. But there are some logistical and legal ways that they can't. And that is fine. I actually think that being able to up some of that enthusiasm gap that you always get in the summer, that you always get midterm, using this, right, to like, you know, kind of gin up your bays, gin up your MLAs, their riding associations, you know, like get your volunteers blood pumping a little bit. I think it can only be good. And like I said, I have heard anecdotally of people
Shannon: people signing this thing, you know, out at rodeo grounds in southern Alberta and places like that. They
Shannon: wouldn't do that if a New Democrat put the petition in front of their face. There's no question about that. But if it is seen that we are making common cause across a broad swath of Alberta society, that
Shannon: also can only be to the good, I think, in order to broaden the appeal a little bit. Because right now we are still, you know, pretty urban, all of those things, and we have to be able, the party needs to be able to win in the small cities at the very minimum.
Zain: Next strategy question. What's Lukasik up to? to like
Zain: like okay he's clearly doing this thing and i'm not saying that everyone has got an ulterior motive but what's he up to is part a of the question but part b is like what could he be up to in the sense of what this profile may may may gather not this i don't mean this profile i mean that in a more general way not this one canadian press profile that this profile could potentially be gathering him carter what's he up to what could this mean for him well
Carter: well i honestly think that he's doing this just because he believes that this is the right thing to be done I
Carter: I do not think that he's got a political second act in him. I don't think he comes back and runs for the leadership of the nascent near Alberta party that's going to have two MLAs and call themselves the progressive conservatives again. I
Zain: do not think
Carter: I don't think that his political world goes
Carter: any further. There's no jobs available. And I still think that this is going to be a bit of a flash in the pan. Jen,
Zain: what do you think here? I
Carter: I
Shannon: I don't know, Thomas, like Carter does. So, but from my vantage point, it looks like he just, you know, saw a job and decided to go and get it done. And I think he likes to mix it up because people who have been in politics do enjoy mixing it up. You know, that's why Ed Stelmack waited in. That's why Brian Mason waited in, you know, Ray Martin, even, you know, There's all kinds of folks that have endorsed this thing and that are – again, they want to do something that's exciting and meaningful. So there may be people who get active in this thing who then see a role for themselves in politics. I don't know if that person is Thomas, and I don't know if it would be provincial or federal.
SPEAKER_00: I think
Shannon: These days, he worked hard on some federal liberal campaigns as well. well, we'd fit comfortably in that tent.
SPEAKER_00: These days,
Shannon: And there's very few people that could win
Shannon: win a conservative seat in North
Shannon: North Edmonton. He might be one of them. I
Shannon: I don't know.
Shannon: I mean, I'm just totally speculating here.
Shannon: Yeah,
Zain: Yeah, this is the reckless speculation part of the show. But there is a part B to this question, which is, Carter, Thomas has been a face. It's a person we are familiar with, if not know personally. It's a person that if you're a keen political observer and have been for the last decade in Alberta, you obviously know the man. And outside of that, maybe not a lot of profile might be a reintroduction, or I think I remember him sort of glance from a lot of people. So my question becomes, who
Shannon: Yeah, this
Shannon: show.
Zain: needs to be next? Can
Zain: Can this be the Thomas Lukasik show? I'm not saying it is, but can it be the Thomas Lukasik show? Or is there a face, a person, a archetype, you know, a composite profile that you can think of that should be the next sort of PR spokesperson, external voice on this thing, on behalf of this group? But I'll give both of you a shot at this. You don't have to have a name in mind, but I'm just kind of curious where your head's at in terms of strategy here. Well,
Carter: Well, I think that, you know, we saw with the Jyoti Gondek recall petition that Landon Johnson, I think, was his name that started up that petition. He basically remained the spokesperson, even though he didn't necessarily remain the person who was running most of the operations of the signature gathering. gathering um it was instead a um uh an exercise put together uh by landon taken over by others but landon remained the front i think that lakazic will remain the front i don't think that i don't think that taking that good strategy though is
Zain: taking that good strategy though is that good strategy though that's what i don't think that taking
Carter: i don't think that taking him i don't think that taking it away from him is good strategy i think that that would be poor form not
Zain: that would be poor
Zain: maybe not taking it away but introducing more spokespeople that's That's what I'm trying to get to. Shannon, give me your take here. He
Carter: Shannon,
Shannon: Shannon, give me
Shannon: He opens up a really good permission structure for people, right? Because any of the sort of basically Chamber of Commerce conservatives who might have even voted UCP in 23 begrudgingly in spite of some of Smith's wackier ideas, it allows them an outlet as well and allows them a way to plug in. And, you know, lefties like me, who are old enough to remember him, are like, okay, fine, right? And actually, he seems like a pretty nice guy. And so, like, we'll begrudgingly go along, folks, you know, on the more progressive side. But people for whom we don't have a lot in common will also go along. He also has a steering committee. He's done this thing right. That is, you know, kind of across the spectrum. He's soliciting a wide range of views on strategy and that kind of, and that is great, right? Like people from the progressive conservative sort of universe, people from the more like federal conservative, like for the right kind of universe, people from the liberals, from, you know, from New Democrats. So he's he's also, you
SPEAKER_00: Because any
SPEAKER_03: folks, you know,
SPEAKER_00: know, kind of across
Shannon: you know, like he's consulting widely. And so I think he's good for the moment in particular, because if he doesn't have any other partisan or other affiliation, he can just go at Smith, you know, in a more unrestrained way. And he's a good spokesperson for that, too. You
Zain: brought up Smith. Let's talk about her. Shannon, I'll give you a take at this. Does she have a problem here with whether she'll sign this petition or not? Or is there an easy strategic out for her that she can kind of be done with this question? I'm not saying it's dogging her, but it is interesting that she was kind of mealy-mouthed about it and didn't have anything clear for someone who definitely knows how to get out of most situations. She wasn't really able to get out of this one. At least this is my reading. I'm curious what you think and what her strategy here should be as it relates to this ongoing petition. Well,
Shannon: Well, I don't know if she has a problem yet. That's the official opposition's job to make it a problem. And I don't think any one of her caucus members or she herself should be able to go out in public without being asked if they're going to sign this petition if they want to remain in Canada.
Zain: You think it's good soft tissue, lack of a better term? You think it's something to work on? It's something. I
Shannon: I
Shannon: I mean, look around
Zain: around
Shannon: around us, right? In terms of the media environment and the animating issues, right? It's a good one. It's a wedge. You can cause problems within the caucus. You can cause, you know, just irritation every time they want to stand up at a podium to announce, you know, new funding for something all through the fall. You can just, like, make life irritating for them. And they should be asked at every turn, are you going to sign this thing? Why don't you want to remain in Canada? What's wrong with you? You don't just sea lion troll them into submission by the fall.
SPEAKER_00: You can just, like, make
Shannon: Carter, good wedge.
Carter: Carter, good wedge. Good wedge. Then she can become an official canvasser
Zain: wedge.
Shannon: Good wedge. Then
Carter: canvasser
Carter: canvasser or whatever they're called, the people picking up the signatures, and just chase after Danielle Smith for the next three weeks. You've
Carter: got to sign this. You've got to sign. I mean, it's not a bad strategy to get some attention and attention is what he needs. He's disappeared again. He's disappeared again. Like, I just don't understand. I mean, sure, it's August and we shouldn't be recording the podcast anyways. But who's
Zain: But who's listening? Who's listening to this shit?
Carter: Yeah. I mean, this is this is where we're we're
Carter: really, you know, then she needs to get some attention. He needs to be on the front pages of some of some some rags. And he just hasn't put himself in that position. Carter,
Zain: does the rest of Canada need to know about this? What's the strategy play for like national media for the rest of the universe, Canadian universe, I should say, knowing about this, being engaged, dialing into Alberta, making like, does that matter here? Or is this, as Shannon would say, local boomer, grassroots, self-organized enough? enough and and you we all clearly have different definitions of what enough means see first half of the show but what do you kind of i'm trying to understand what your play would be for engaging the rest of the country on this file i
Carter: i wouldn't really worry too much about engaging the rest of the country i think that when we were engaged as albertans in the quebec question uh we poured some gasoline on that fire um i would just keep it you know nice and local i'm sure the national The national news networks and national newspapers will cover it when it flames out and doesn't get its 290,000 signatures.
Zain: Shannon, what do you think? What's the play for the rest of the country on this particular signature collection petition campaign?
Shannon: I usually wish that they will stay out of it, kind of like I wish once I see American news coverage of Canada, I wish that they didn't write it because it's usually wrong and a caricature of us. And the same goes for some of these national unity questions when, you know, Toronto CBC comes out to, you know, the Innisfail Rodeo and goes on safari, right? It has very strong sort of Pennsylvania diner vibes to it. I can't stand it. They go out and find like someone who's like a card-carrying separatist who's been like a spokesperson for this or the convoy movement. And they're like, here's a guy off the street. It's crazy making. So, certainly, national organizations should stay far, far away from it because there's nothing
SPEAKER_00: nothing that might
Shannon: might piss an Albertan off more than being told by somebody, quote-unquote, out east, how to think about these matters. But number two, it
Shannon: it doesn't involve them at all, right? You wouldn't
Zain: You wouldn't be seeking it. If you were on this campaign, Shannon, you wouldn't be seeking it either, right? thing i
Shannon: campaign, Shannon, you wouldn't
Shannon: wouldn't be seeking it either, right? thing i would want uh it would be the kiss of death to have some you know uh retired central canadian politician come in and tell us what's what uh on this topic of any stripe uh extremely unhelpful uh
Shannon: uh and uh certainly danielle smith if she has a political problem she'll be waiting for something like that to happen we're
Zain: gonna leave that segment there move it on to our over under and our lightning round stephen carter it's almost your bedtime it is past my bedtime
Carter: it is past my bedtime i'm ready which Which is why,
Zain: which Which is why, Mr. Stephen Carter, we're going to start—only two questions. Well, one of them will involve a bit of math for you. Sure. Carter, the number is 293,976. That is the number that
Zain: Thomas Lukaszek and co. need. Carter,
Zain: what number will they get?
Carter: 114,346.
Zain: Wow. Shannon, Stephen
Zain: Stephen Carter has actually had a 1,000 batting record on this. Every prediction he's made has been my touch, is what we call him.
Shannon: Right.
Zain: Do you want to compete with that?
Shannon: No, I don't know what the rules are. I'm
Zain: rules are. I'm going to force you to. I'm going to force you to. What's the number?
Shannon: Oh, I'm going to say that they're in the 160, 170 range.
Zain: 160 to 170. So neither of you think they're going to hit the 200 mark or even get close to 293? No.
Shannon: No.
Shannon: I'm going to be cautiously optimistic, but it's just, you know, when you actually do the math to Carter's point about how many signatures you have to get per minute in order to do it, it's tough. It's really tough.
Zain: 8,000 a day. If you just do 8,000 a day, you could be done very
Zain: very quickly, one would think. Well, it's not
Carter: one would think. Well, it's not actually even that. Well, it's only 2,450 a day, but
Carter: it gets harder when you go through each day, right?
Carter: right? Of course. Each day gets more and more challenging, and at some point, you run through the people who are willing to line up at the Sobeys parking lot with Shannon Phillips. No, I wasn't there.
Shannon: My
Carter: My
Shannon: My
Carter: My
Shannon: My mother was there.
Carter: Your mother
Shannon: mother
Carter: mother
Shannon: mother
Carter: mother was
Shannon: was
Carter: was
Shannon: was there.
Zain: Final question, Stephen Carter recording at the end of August here. Which Canadian politician, any stripe, any order of government, has had the best summer? This was the summer of, insert Canadian politician's name here. Who was it for you? Was it easy one? Lay it on me. Who was it and why? Pierre
Carter: Lay it on me.
Carter: Pierre
Carter: Pierre Polyev got a seat in the House of Commons. That's got to be the story of the summer. I
Carter: mean, sure, Mark Carney's out trying to negotiate world peace, but... World
Carter: World peace, is that what we're
Zain: World peace, is that what we're
Zain: we're
Carter: we're calling
Zain: calling it?
Carter: Yeah, that's what we're calling it. Okay.
Carter: Okay. But instead, we got Pierre Polyev winning in the easiest riding in Canada.
Zain: Okay, so Stephen Carter is titling his summer album, The Summer of Pierre Polyev. Shannon Phillips, it
Zain: was a summer of who?
Shannon: Wap Canoe, hands
Shannon: hands down. Not
Shannon: Not only does he remain the most popular premier in Canada, um
Shannon: um but uh you know in the context of a deteriorating fiscal picture an employment picture for everyone theirs
Shannon: theirs is not as bad uh as projected which is pretty good uh number three we know port of churchill now is going to be one of the first projects designated by
Shannon: the carney government under c5 uh there's lots of new uh interest in uh manitoba as a as a level of government that can do business with the federal government that is that also has uh many of the indigenous components uh in place to be able to attract those new forms of investment they got critical minerals coming out their ears uh and uh wap canoe uh you know they're going through a by-election a super safe um conservative
Shannon: conservative seat right now they're even running a little campaign there because they have the bandwidth to be able to do it uh wap
Shannon: wap canoe is far and away way, the best political athlete in this country, and he set his province up for success over the course of this summer.
Carter: I'm not buying that. I didn't see him. You're
Carter: You're
Zain: You're not buying it? I think that Pierre Palliev
Carter: I think that Pierre Palliev was a much stronger answer.
Carter: Okay.
Zain: Okay. You do. Yeah, of course you would. We're going to leave it there. That's a wrap on episode 1882 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Velge. With me as always, Stephen Carter, Shannon Phillips, and we shall see you next time.
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