SPEAKER_08: Running a business isn't easy, but growing your savings should be. With the CIBC Business Investment Growth Account, you get a flexible savings account with no monthly account fee that works as hard as you do. Open your account today and earn up to 3.15% interest on new deposits up to $5 million. But hurry, this offer ends February 28th, 2026. Don't let this opportunity pass you by. Visit CIBC.com slash big A now. Terms and eligibility requirements apply. CIBC.
SPEAKER_08: Ambitions made real.
SPEAKER_04: ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
SPEAKER_04: Here's a show that we recommend.
SPEAKER_00: I'm Terri Hart, and this is The Heart of It All, a podcast about navigating the messy, beautiful, complicated realities of caregiving for our aging loved ones. Every week, I sit down with experts, caregivers, and families to talk honestly about what it means to support an aging parent. If you're a caregiver or you want to know what to expect when you inevitably become one, you're in the right place. The heart of it all. That's heart spelled H-A-R-T. New episodes every week, wherever you get your podcasts.
SPEAKER_03: Acast helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com This
Zain: is a Strategist episode 1879. My name is Zane Velji. With me as always, Stephen Carter, Shannon Phillips. How are you, friends?
Zain: I'm just fucking livid.
Zain: Are you livid because the guy was like, they should have just pretended like no one was watching. Isn't that the number one rule of strategy? The number one rule of
Carter: The number one rule of strategy is just don't ever make a spectacle out of yourself, and then it won't be a spectacle. But these guys were all like, oh, and they react. And as soon as you react, you got the spotlight on you. All of a sudden, Chris Martin's calling you out. That must be an affair. Wow, Chris, really fucking insightful. We all figured that out right away. I mean, they were holding each other. They weren't married. Pretty
Zain: good. Do
Zain: we just want to end it there, Shannon? Jenna, do you want to get a word in edgewise, or are you good for the pun? I have
Shannon: I have no thoughts on Coldplaygate whatsoever. Why are we blaming
Zain: Why are we blaming Coldplay? This is not their gate.
Shannon: This is not their gate.
Zain: CEO
Shannon: CEO gate? Whatever. Gate.
Zain: CEO gate?
SPEAKER_04: Whatever.
SPEAKER_07: Whatever.
Zain: Gate. Whatever.
Shannon: Whatever.
Shannon: Whatever.
Zain: Whatever.
SPEAKER_07: Yeah.
Zain: Yeah. Yes. This gate. By the way, did you guys see the apology letter or the lack of apology letter? It is probably the end. We have on this show, Carter. We should pick that apart.
Carter: this show, Carter. We should pick that apart. Carter, on this show, how many
Zain: on this show, how many have we done? We've probably done, over the history of this show, I'd say a dozen. At least. this might be the worst i've ever seen the
Zain: first part for those who haven't read it let me let me give you a quick synopsis uh it starts off fine boilerplate and by fine i mean it's fucking fine like it wasn't good i need to be a better man but then okay paragraph three and paragraph four you're not expecting what's coming paragraph three without my consent these musicians put me on the screen paragraph four he fucking quotes coldplay to end the letter is
Carter: like it wasn't good i need to be a better man but
Zain: incredible Incredible. It is the worst thing I have ever seen, Carter.
Carter: It is the
Carter: There's somewhere in this world, a PR person who had to do that.
Carter: And I'm just thankful it wasn't me.
Zain: I don't think a PR person did that. There's no way a PR person did that.
Carter: You
Carter: You know what? There's a PR person who did that, that charged $7,500 to write that letter. You know this is true. They
Carter: They should have charged $75,000 and made it a good letter.
Shannon: It's true.
Carter: Navigator would have been right there.
Shannon: Dawson would have held him up. Do
Zain: Do we have to name names? What is our insurance situation on this show? I'm just saying that if I was
Shannon: we
Carter: we have to name
Shannon: name
Shannon: insurance situation on this show? I'm just saying that if I was a CEO that was trapped in that, I would have probably hired Randy Dawson.
Zain: CEO
Carter: Or Stephen Carter. I would have written something better than that. What would
Zain: that. What would you have written? Go ahead. We're going to give you a free shower. You saw everything that happened. You're more plugged into this story than you've been on most things in the last year. So, Carter, I
Shannon: give
Carter: give
Shannon: give
Carter: give you
Shannon: you
Carter: you
Shannon: you
SPEAKER_04: you
Zain: don't know why the story of an extramarital affair really has you in the sweet spot of
Zain: of paying attention. It's all over my
Carter: attention. It's all over my TikTok. It's all over my—finally, something has knocked out all the thirst traps. I couldn't be happier. Good.
Zain: It's all over
Zain: Good. Okay. So, you're engaged on the story, I guess is what I'm saying. I'm very engaged
Carter: what I'm saying. I'm very engaged on the story. Go ahead. I
Zain: Go ahead. I
Zain: I would
Carter: would have just simply written— Go ahead.
Zain: ahead.
Carter: The
Zain: The
Carter: The $75,000
Zain: The $75,000 letter by Stephen Carter. Here it is, folks. I
Carter: I am sorry. I was wrong. my apologies especially go to my wife and all those that I've hurt period
Zain: period
Carter: but which Coldplay song would you have ended
Zain: but which Coldplay song would you have ended with which Coldplay song quote would you have ended with The
Carter: The Scientist probably here's
Zain: here's what people are missing they think we're done with lastmealatswiss.ca but we're not Shannon just
Carter: just
Zain: just stay with us for a second so there's been a lot of feedback none of it positive all about our Our competition, Carter, our write-in show about, I'm just going to call it our summer contest. Oh,
Carter: all
Zain: Oh, yeah. This is the Strategist Summer Contest. We are trying to figure out how many last meals have been had at Swiss Chalet. And the problem is we've gotten some really good sourced responses. Carter, do you want to tell them or should I tell them what the issue is? Oh, I think it's up to you.
Carter: yeah. This is
Carter: what the issue is? Oh, I think it's up to you. Okay. The
Zain: Okay. The issue is we actually don't know the number. So stage two, for anyone that has submitted, you have to actually now prove that your math is correct. You
Carter: You know what? If you can prove even one single death, you might win this. How
Carter: do you suggest
Zain: suggest they prove one single? I think proving one single death is harder than proving a series of deaths at Swiss Chalet.
Carter: Oh, you think that one is harder than a series? I think that, you know, one is part of a series. Thank
Zain: you, Carter. I feel
Carter: feel like...
Zain: like... In
Carter: In
Carter: In
Zain: In
Carter: In fact, it's in the Fibonacci sequence like twice, isn't it? Like, one is there is what I'm trying to get across. Shannon,
Zain: In fact, it's in the
Zain: Shannon, do you want us to save you from this or do you want to save yourself? i
Shannon: would like to talk about politics this is political if swiss chalet
Carter: this is
Zain: is
Carter: is political if
Zain: if
Carter: if swiss chalet has been the height of the political it'll be political
Zain: chalet
Shannon: chalet
Zain: chalet
Shannon: chalet
Zain: chalet
Shannon: chalet has
Zain: has
Shannon: has
Shannon: has been the
Shannon: it'll be political all right if we all get our asses sued by swiss chalet how
Zain: swiss chalet
Zain: how many political or political adjacent figures have died with their last meal at swiss chalet oh
Shannon: oh i would say zero no
Zain: i disagree i disagree
Carter: disagree i disagree
Carter: disagree come
Zain: come on when these people are done from office don't you think they're spending all day at swiss i think i had ribs
Shannon: come on when these
Carter: think i had
Carter: ribs with joe clark there one time I mean, he had sauces everywhere. It was touch and go, I'll tell you that. Touch and go. Were those
Zain: Were those sauces from the restaurant?
Carter: Yeah, Swiss Chalet. Jesus, so it's where you get the extra sauces.
Zain: Chalet. Jesus, so
Carter: You're the worst. I'm
Zain: You're the worst.
Carter: I'm just clarifying. He's not a CEO at a Coldplay concert.
Zain: He's not
SPEAKER_08: not a CEO
Zain: CEO
Zain: Shannon, let's save you some yourself for this.
Zain: I think, what I personally think was one of our better intros.
Shannon: No.
Zain: No.
Zain: No, I mean, I can't trink your word for it. You don't listen, but Carter and I, I don't listen either. one
Carter: I don't listen either. one of our top ones one of our tops yeah it was pretty good thank
Zain: one of our tops yeah it was pretty good thank
Carter: thank
Zain: thank you shannon for participating
Carter: thank you shannon for participating uh
Zain: uh yeah i added a
Shannon: uh yeah i added a lot into this uh
Zain: let's move it on to our ice cubes our first segment which dumpster fire would you want to solve stephen carter shannon phillips there's a few dumpster fires a varying degree and and i want you to rank them first for me and we'll dive into each of them in in our own special strategist way but i'll i'll ask you which one of these These political dumpster fires of the past week is the worst for a particular political figure in our country or province. And as a operative strategist, former elected official, person who knows this space, people who know this space, which one would you want to work on? Does that make sense? Yep. Right. So we've got we've got the Alberta next panels, which are going splendidly thus far in Alberta. That, of course, is paired alongside the survey scandal of Daniel Smith, where they have to kind of go back and edit some surveys. You've got Mark Carney and C5, which is now facing some indigenous backlash after his his one day meeting today. We can dive into that. We've got this by election for Pierre Pauliev, which is it's
Shannon: to our ice
Carter: ice cubes our
SPEAKER_04: of course, is paired alongside the
Zain: straightforward, but it's not as straightforward as you think. You got this independent candidate who's starting to make some noise, give some media interviews, etc.
Zain: And finally, you have Pierre Poliev in the line of fire again with his buddies in Ontario trying to fuck him over by having their convention on the exact same day as his leadership review. Did I get that last part right? Their convention on their leadership review. Is that correct? Yeah. It's so
Shannon: It's so delicious. I just, you know, I want to just
Shannon: just put it in a bowl and spoon it up. It is gorgeous.
Carter: gorgeous. So which is the worst? Which
Shannon: worst?
Zain: worst? Which is the worst? Which
Carter: worst? Which
Carter: Which is the worst dumpster
Zain: dumpster fire? And which one would you want to work on? And then we'll hit all of them in our own way. But Carter, you want to start?
Carter: dumpster fire? And which one
Zain: I
Carter: I think the worst dumpster fire has to be the Alberta Nexpan.
Carter: It is turned into almost a literal dumpster fire. I mean, these people were brought in from the back alley where the dumpster is, and they were asked to come in and provide
Carter: provide their opinions and feedback. And I got to tell you, the people who are standing beside the dumpster fire are, you know, the people we called out before, Trevor Toome and Adam Legg. They were going to bring sanity to this. And I would like to see where the sanity starts and ends, because I don't think that anybody can bring sanity to this nightmare. Hold
Zain: Hold your fire. I want to ask Shannon if she's on the same page. Paige, if she is, we'll dive deeper into this. Shannon, which
Zain: which is the biggest dumpster fire of this past week politically?
Shannon: Oh, I think in terms of it being a problem, actually,
Shannon: like a foundational problem for the party in question. Yeah.
Zain: Yeah.
Shannon: Probably Pierre.
Shannon: Oh, interesting. Scandal. And not only
Zain: Oh, interesting. Scandal. And
SPEAKER_00: And
Shannon: only do I just want to contradict Carter, you know, sort of recreationally, but I also, I think. Pierre
Zain: Pierre in the by-election or Pierre with the shit or not true? is easy street
Shannon: the shit or not true? is easy street he'll be fine uh
Shannon: uh the does
Zain: uh the
Zain: does it matter to you shannon if he doesn't get 82 and he gets i don't think it matters one one
Shannon: i don't think it matters one one okay okay
Zain: okay okay so you're talking about ontario then yeah the ontario i'm talking about ontario
Shannon: so you're talking about
Shannon: yeah the ontario i'm talking about ontario pcs putting their convention at the same time as as uh pierre's leadership review not because it's going to necessarily change that many humans going to calgary as opposed to the pc party but it just shows a like generally
Carter: but it just shows
Shannon: generally speaking when conservatives are successful
Shannon: successful the big blue machine uh
Shannon: uh out of ontario is powering the conservative party of canada uh to a great extent a lot of the brain trust a lot of the uh organizers cut their teeth there um you know a lot of folks came out of the harris years and then went across the country and federally and worked for uh right and that uh is a is a big place with a lot of uh uh
SPEAKER_00: lot of the brain trust
Shannon: uh political And to
Shannon: show the depths of the animosity that way, like it's just a giant, big foam middle finger, right, to the federal party. And as
Shannon: as an
Shannon: Alberta New Democrat, I
Shannon: I can tell you that having unhelpful relationships with the federal party is, you know, unhelpful at the end of the day. having somebody trying to, you know, basically kick your feet out from under you every two minutes. It might not be a short-term problem, but you bet your ass it's a long-term problem.
Zain: Carter, let's, you know, we'll get to Alberta next. Shannon's convinced me. I want to talk about this first. But before I do, can I get both of your takes on which of these problems would you, like, if you were still in politics, Carter, I know you still are, but if you were working for these folks, who would you, which problem would you most be intrigued read or interested to work on or to solve? Carter, can I start with you? Just give me a quick answer and then Shannon and yourself and then we'll dive into the Ontario PC, CPC stuff.
Shannon: Carter,
Shannon: Carter,
SPEAKER_04: quick
Carter: quick answer
SPEAKER_04: answer
Carter: I would take the Battle River by-election because I always like a win.
Zain: Okay, interesting. Shannon, which political project would you want to jump on if you were jumping into this? Probably
Carter: which
Shannon: which political
Shannon: this? Probably that one. I've lost track. We have Alberta Next by-election. Alberta Next by-election, Carney C5.
Zain: Alberta Next by-election, Carney C5.
Zain: I'd
Shannon: I'd
Zain: I'd call it a saga, but it could be a small fire that turns into a larger one. We shall see. No,
Shannon: I'd
Carter: No, because anytime you involve this type of situation, it's easy to solve.
Zain: because anytime
Carter: Shannon could probably do it in a weekend.
Zain: Yeah, and I don't sense any sarcasm coming from you. No,
Carter: No, none, none at all. Okay,
Zain: all. Okay, okay, fine. So you guys are both going to the by-election. Let's talk about this Ontario PC thing. Carter, let me just update the listenership. Ford's campaign manager, Corey Tanik, states that the provincial convention dates were chosen for fundraising reasons aligning with Ontario's new fiscal year. He denied any intentional conflict with the federal party's schedule. Stephen Carter, are you going to ring the big bell? Is this classic fuck your buddy?
SPEAKER_04: party's
Carter: Oh, this is classic fuck your buddy. Even having the, well, this aligns with the new fiscal year end. Beautiful work. I mean, Corey tonight is
Carter: is a... He's
Carter: He's a pro. He's a pro. There is no one, no one here is going to say that this is an amateur. He knows what he's doing. He's playing fuck your buddy at a whole different level. and uh i'm just really thankful that his his guns aren't pointed at me so
SPEAKER_08: here is
Shannon: so
Zain: ford in the past has criticized polyev's campaign as being political malpractice uh for losing the strong public lead that he had carter walk me through what's at play here we've been flirting with the ford wants his job for a long time but it at some point it it may not even be replacement it could simply just be displacement get
Zain: get rid of the guy as much as it's like you know the two-step prunk Because we always think of Ford wants his job. It's a two-step process, displace and replace. We might just be simply being like, let's create optionality. Let's just displace and then see whatever the fuck happens next. Could it be as simple as that in your mind?
SPEAKER_07: rid of
Carter: I don't have to want your job to hate your guts.
Carter: You know, I
Carter: hate your guts. I mean, Pierre Polyev is not a likable character.
Zain: Polyev is not
Zain: not a likable character. Better said.
Carter: He's not a likable character. He's someone that, you know,
Carter: know, engenders an attitude of distrust and dislike, you
Carter: you know, and has been like that for 20 plus years. He is not someone that people go, oh, Pierre Palliev, nice guy. Like, have you ever heard that? I mean, Pierre Palliev, talented operator, Pierre Palliev, a talented politician. These are things I've heard. I've never heard someone say, you know, I really like him as a person.
Shannon: Yeah, he did something nice for me once. Yeah, there was that time that he helped
Carter: Yeah, he did something nice for me once. Yeah, there
Carter: there was that time that he helped me out, right?
Shannon: right? Never
Carter: Never happened. I
Shannon: happened. I can phone him up if I have a flat tire. No, that ain't Pierre. Look, there is clear animosity between these two political organizations now. It is an interesting problem to solve because it does seem like it's a bunch of dudes just, you know, backstabbing each other. And it might be as simple as, you know, neither of us are going to win the next election if we continue to do this to each other.
Shannon: I
Shannon: I do not think that Doug Ford wants
Shannon: wants to run federally. People always think that federal politics is some sort of promotion, but it is not when you are running the province of Ontario.
Carter: Doug
Shannon: Doug Ford is happy to be the mayor of Ontario. He is happy to be running, you know, Canada's largest economy. He's happy to have the relationships with the United States that he does to be in this problem solving space with the looming tariffs and so on.
Carter: Doug
Shannon: There is no way on God's green earth that he would want to go and be the official opposition leader. And it's just, it's not, it's not his style. It's not his, you know, it's not his bailiwick at all. all.
Shannon: So I would be very, very shocked if that's the motivation. There might be people around Ford that he thinks would be better for the job. I'm sure there are now that we're a year into them sniping at each other. But
Carter: sniping at each other.
Shannon: But I also think that Doug Ford is a super transactional kind of politician, and he doesn't like it when people are just like so crazily partisan. You know, he liked having a good relationship with Chrystia Freeland. He, you know, called her his friend. And he did not like that hyper, hyper partisanship that was coming out of Pallieva, you know, and those criticisms of him being a liberal just because he, you know, had a transactional sort of friendship with someone at the federal level.
Shannon: Doug Ford is a much more of an old school conservative.
Carter: Pierre Pallieva
Shannon: Pierre Pallieva is a new conservative. And by which I mean, there are no facts. There is just a partisan fight to the death. And there's no sort of shared sense of the public interest or the public good in any way, shape or form. There is just burn it all down, use whatever you need to use to do it. It is. And it's, you know, the worst of Trumpism, urbanism, all of these sort of, you know, far right movements that have now become mainstream. stream
Zain: carter you know when when paul you have lost that last election because it was so close
Zain: think many people were like well you know this was this was not the liberal majority that that that was being predicted pierre made massive gains in the 905 he looked like you know someone who's at least on the path of trying to make some changes acknowledging some mistakes and then when the weeks went by and
Zain: and no one really came with a shiv to try to take his job club, when the body was still warm, so to speak, I thought it was over. Am
Zain: I wrong? Did I misread this? Like, I guess what I'm trying to say in a very long winded way is, I'm not as certain about January as I was six weeks ago for Pierre Polyev. Are you in the same camp as me?
Carter: Oh, yeah. I mean, I'm not at all convinced that Pierre Polyev survives the leadership review, nor am I convinced that he doesn't survive the leadership review. First of all, what is a survivable number? Jason Kenney's tried to reset what the number looks like. um you
Zain: not at all
Carter: you know is it is it going to be 66 percent is it going to be 56
Carter: 56 percent um you
Carter: you know if it's if it's 82 if 86 88 then
Carter: then then he survives no problem but there's a big gray zone now a much much bigger gray zone than there used to be uh when joe clark decided that 66 wasn't going to quite cut it um Um,
Carter: that is a, uh,
Carter: uh, a big question
Carter: question mark for Pierre. Will he survive it?
Carter: But the other part of this is who wants it, right?
Carter: right? And
Carter: And I think that there's a lot of people who want it. Um, Doug Ford may not be the person, but I'm quite certain that there's someone in someone's orbit that is, is currently plotting and trying to figure out how they would make sure that Pierre Polyev doesn't get the number that he wants, that they want. want and there's a really believable story as to why he shouldn't get the leadership review first of all the ruthlessness of the conservative party has been well noted um there this is not a party that tolerates losing it
Carter: doesn't matter if you did pretty well if you almost got there you're you're you know the the leaders are taken out at a regular basis um because there's there's just so much uh there's so much fact it's so much so many different factions within the conservative party that there is almost no way that a faction isn't plotting against the others, similar to Chrétien versus Martin back in the day for the Liberals. There's
Shannon: only really three ways that a leader gets taken out.
Shannon: Membership, caucus, events, right? Like, you know, some unsavory activity or whatever and you have to resign.
Carter: Membership,
Carter: He was the CEO at a Coldplay concert. Yeah,
Shannon: Yeah, there's three ways.
Shannon: I remain... I knew he had a third way,
Zain: remain... I knew he had a third way, Yeah, fairly
Shannon: Yeah, fairly
Shannon: fairly convinced that he'll probably be OK through January because
Shannon: because the caucus is, you know, going to simply essentially be the coalition partner to the liberals through the fall session.
Shannon: And they will be sort of moving some of the, you know, the power brokers will be moving themselves around a little bit. But it's too soon, likely
Shannon: likely to organize for January. uh so there's the caucus there's the party members uh and those are the people who were showing up at pierce uh rallies and fainting like they were at a revival meeting right uh
Carter: uh generally
Shannon: uh generally speaking they're gonna do they're he's he's okay there right um uh
Shannon: uh and so that's those two um
Shannon: um events you know if we go into a more trumpy time with 35 or those kinds of uh that you You know, it may become increasingly clear to the caucus, probably not the party, that he's not the man for the hour. I
Shannon: think he survives January regardless, very likely. I mean, I could revise my opinion starting in, you know, October, November, like, let's get back to it. But that's a six-month window, right? What's not clear to me at all is if he lasts two years, right?
Shannon: It took them, I think, 14 months to punt O'Toole, I want to say, or a little bit shorter. Maybe it was 14 months to punt Scheer.
Shannon: So it's not going to happen right away, even if it does happen, right? It's not going to happen at, you know, E plus 10. It's just not.
Shannon: Unless it's, you know, devastating, right? Losses. It's going to happen over the course of a couple of sessions, persistently low numbers, and then one of two things has to happen. Party has to mobilize or caucus. It, I did say when we talked about this before that I thought that his challenge would come from the right and
Shannon: from the more fringy, you know, that kind of world.
Shannon: Given this stuff with the Ford people, I'm
Shannon: I'm not as convinced of that anymore.
Shannon: And I mean, it could still come from the Lulu right, right? And the people who are unmoored from reality. It could still come from there. But
Carter: from the Lulu
Shannon: it may come from the more Chamber of Commerce conservatives that find a home in the in the Doug Ford PC party who who are seeing the success of a Carney government and thinking, I want some of that, too.
Zain: Well,
Shannon: Well,
Zain: Well,
Zain: let's
Shannon: let's talk about the Carney
Zain: Carney situation here, because usually you would think that the the other party in the situation, in this case, the governing party, would not really have an impact or an influence. And you guys may still answer that that is the case, saying that the Carney government's not going to have an influence on this. however carter let me let me put it bluntly carney's gotten more conservative this
Zain: right he's asking for massive cuts which we can talk about 15 over three years you know he's pushing aggressively spending a lot of political capital on pipeline and and building infrastructure it's not like he stopped that he's actually plowing through more aggressively there's even conservative political columnists calling a progressive conservative or a conservative progressive sort of thing is
Zain: is there a carny impact here like in the sense of the home that this guy is also building could that actually have maybe marginal maybe not so marginal maybe none i'm just to posit the theory could that have an impact on what it looks like for pierre and who shows up to oust him um good or bad uh come january in terms of what the new liberal machine or what the new carny liberal machine looks like in terms of being a lot more historically conservative than we've seen in the in the last decade certainly i
Carter: think that the way that it shows up isn't necessarily overall very excited that uh prime minister carney is a progressive conservative prime minister which i accept i accept the premise of that that statement sure
Zain: statement sure yeah but
Carter: sure yeah but um i would suggest that prime minister carney uh has
Carter: has a far more impact not because of him being a prime progressive conservative prime minister, but because he's a popular prime minister. The
Carter: The popularity, the approval ratings, the, you know, we would prefer to have Mr. Carney as prime minister over Pierre Polyev.
Shannon: The popularity,
Carter: Ultimately, that's what the members are going to look at.
Carter: The members want to see victory and they're going to look at it and say, do
Carter: do we have someone here who can rebound? And
Carter: And they don't seem to give a lot of, you
Carter: know, a lot of opportunity to people to rebound. You know, It's one and done, and that seems to be the nature of it.
Zain: Jen, any thoughts on the Carney impact here to what appears fortunes maybe? And then let's move on to Alberta next.
Shannon: Oh, I mean, it's just that they continue to get buried in the polls. People are going to look for an alternative. And it's not just that he doesn't have a seat. It's not just that he wasn't in parliament. It's, you know, is he the man for the moment? And a lot of the terrain that
Shannon: that Mr. Carney is opening up for criticism is
Shannon: is actually New Democrat terrain. which
Shannon: which uh and you know we have their i
Zain: uh and
Shannon: i want to talk
Zain: want to talk about this yeah yeah
Shannon: yeah uh so um you know that too might sort of like what are they left with you know they were screaming today about the public safety minister not you know personally uh being a a public safety officer in a correctional facility right and preventing a stabbing you know they were just screeching off topic meanwhile you know you got half a million unemployed people in southwest ontario like it just is not commensurate with you know the moment at all uh and if that kind of stuff continues canadians are going to be like i don't even know what you're talking about and then there will be a push to move move him up the
Shannon: the the the um unpopularity is one thing it's where the push comes from that is super curious to me uh
SPEAKER_00: uh and and
Shannon: uh and and that's where like
Shannon: like yeah a few months a few weeks ago i would have said to you no uncertain terms it's coming from the right if anybody can organize it it's them am. I'm not so certain anymore.
Zain: Yeah, and I tend to agree with you. And I think the the ability or inability of the Polyev campaign subsequent to the election to continue to build and court that working class economic populism that they at least got a part of at the expense of the NDP. I don't know if they're putting any effort into that doesn't necessarily seem like they they are in a real way, especially when the issues are so meaty and so aligned with the the political jurisdiction they can make gains with.
Shannon: You know, Jamil Javani busted out with a temporary foreign worker and the temporary foreign worker program petitioned like right after the election. He
Zain: Jamil Javani busted
Zain: program petitioned
Zain: He did. Yeah. And
Shannon: And we haven't heard from him since on
Shannon: this topic.
Zain: this topic. Yeah. And also, same dude, Javani not getting his,
Zain: what many thought would be an obvious sort of shadow minister.
SPEAKER_08: Ready to see your business savings grow? The CIBC Business Investment Growth Account is designed to help your money work smarter. No monthly account fee, total flexibility, and a standout up to 3.15% interest on new deposits up to $5 million. But this offer ends February 28th, 2026. Take your next big step. Open your account at CIBC.com slash big A now. Terms and eligibility requirements apply. CIBC.
SPEAKER_08: Ambitions made real.
SPEAKER_04: ACAST powers the world's best podcasts.
SPEAKER_04: Here's a show that we recommend.
SPEAKER_00: I'm Terry Hart, and this is The Heart of It All. a podcast about navigating the messy, beautiful, complicated realities of caregiving for our aging loved ones. Every week, I sit down with experts, caregivers, and families to talk honestly about what it means to support an aging parent. If you're a caregiver or you want to know what to expect when you inevitably become one, you're in the right place. The Heart of it All, that's heart spelled H-A-R-T. New episodes every week, wherever you get your podcasts. ACAST.
SPEAKER_03: ACAST helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. ACAST.com.
Zain: Carter, let's move it to Alberta because I do want to go to Carney and I do want to kind of knock off some of the other things I have mentioned here.
Zain: Okay,
Zain: talk
Zain: to me about the inevitability of this going the way it has thus far. And then I want to talk about from a strategist perspective, what the fix to the Alberta Next panels looks like from Stephen Carter's perspective. The train has left the station. So redesigning the program is not on the table per se, but what would the midstream adjustment look like? So talk to me about, was this inevitable?
Zain: And then talk to me about the strategic adjustment that you would be making, Carter. So
Carter: So we did a budget choice exercise with the provincial government. And
Carter: And one of the things that we did early
Carter: early on is we wanted to create some sort of a benchmarking because
Carter: we were certain that it would be taken over by either the left or the right, but we wanted to make sure that we had a benchmark. So we did a 2
Carter: 2,000 or 3,000 person sample size in order to create a benchmark.
Zain: Daniel
Carter: Daniel Smith needs to create a fucking benchmark. This thing is being taken off by, what are they calling them, the bratty children in
Carter: in the room.
Carter: And the people in the room, the people responding to her online survey are people who are the
Carter: the disaffected. they are not necessarily well they are not at all representative of the general population and we were terrified of that when we did the budget choice exercise because if you do an exercise of public consultation and it suddenly goes the way of are you fucking kidding me crazy then
Carter: then how do you get back to sanity when it comes time to write the report you're not going to be able to ask trevor tomb to write with sanity because trevor tomb is going to be stuck there saying well if i'm writing what people actually said rather than what's actually true true then i have to write this crazy ass report and that was you know that's where things were going to go wrong that's where they've gone wrong right now and i just don't know that she's even thought about getting a benchmark and trying to figure out how to bring this back to reality how
Zain: how how has it gone wrong shannon because they've done red deer edmonton sherwood park they've got their online surveys initially perceived to have some bias so you can't oppose their propositions Those have gotten 30-some-odd thousand responses thus far. So the engagement is there, but it still has gone off the rails. So explain to me, like, what has gone off the rails? I know it might seem obvious, but I think it's important to, like, highlight what we think the source of the problem is, or if you even believe in the premise that there is a problem with the Alberta Next panels. Has
Shannon: it gone off the rails?
Shannon: Is there a problem? The
Shannon: point here is not to find consensus. It's not to arm people with facts. It's not to issue a report. It's not to do any of those things that are in the public interest, regardless of one's partisanship.
Zain: point here is not
Carter: not
Carter: It's not
Carter: It's
Shannon: It's not. It is to create an alternate reality for your, essentially, your separatist agenda. agenda and so you
Shannon: you know they are by all accounts at least it's been reported and i don't know if it was independently verified but they are uh
Shannon: uh sending invite invites out to ucp membership list before uh and letting them register before general public again
Carter: again i
Shannon: again i want to caveat that because i don't know if it was independently verified by two sources all those things no
Carter: no but zane and i believe it to be true well yeah and that's that's the
Shannon: zane
Shannon: well yeah and
Zain: and
Shannon: and
Zain: and that's that's
Shannon: that's the journalistic integrity of
Zain: the
Carter: the journalistic integrity of
Zain: of this podcast pretty
Shannon: of this podcast pretty
Carter: pretty But I mean,
Shannon: pretty
Zain: pretty But
Shannon: But I mean, so you've got like also who's showing up in mid-July. You're going to get some pretty highly motivated partisans. And then
Zain: mean,
Shannon: then a
Shannon: a smattering of, you know, well-informed folks who, you know, retired that lovely woman, the retired CPA who got up there and talked facts about the Canada pension plan the
Shannon: the other night. I saw her clip.
Shannon: But
Shannon: But the point here is not to resolve anything. It is to continue. No, it's a bolster.
Zain: continue. No, it's a bolster. And to
Shannon: And to provide some
Shannon: some cover for it. And the only cover that matters is people screaming in the streets and on the Internet. This is not, from Daniel Smith's perspective, a tire fire at all for her. For Trevor Toome, I should hope it's a tire fire. And he leaves as soon as he can, because reputationally, this is an absolute, it's a mess. Yes. And he is the one person up there, the one person whose literal job description and
Shannon: employment contract explicitly says in it for, let's be clear, hundreds of years because he has tenure that he can say no to government. He could have said no to this and he still can and he should because he last night he
Shannon: was correcting some folks on some erroneous statements. They were the Sherwood Park one. And then in wanders Danielle Smith to say more bullshit and say more lies. It
Zain: the Sherwood Park one. And then in
Shannon: It is, from that perspective, from the perspective of democratic discourse of trying to get, you know, it's nice. And Carter is right. A decade ago, that's what conservatives tried to do was to, you know, get an actual public consensus. We are not in that world anymore, folks. uh yeah no so but it's not a mess for them because even if it does it get a bit messy and it like dumps her numbers down a little bit and like reinforces the separatist thing like over like august september she's facilitating
Carter: yeah no so but
Zain: september she's facilitating it and such okay
Shannon: and such okay you don't
Zain: you don't think that's enough she
Shannon: she can distance herself from that even at that point so yeah we heard albertans and now we'll uh i'm gonna go focus on something else that
Zain: i'm gonna go focus on
Zain: that level of i i on the surface i would not agree with shannon but that level of gaslighting has historically happened with danielle smith that she's been able to say Say something, start it, continue it, you know, spark its fire, light its flame, and then back away from it.
Zain: What's bullshit, Carter? Because I'm buying a lot of what you're saying. Her behavior is bullshit.
Carter: of what you're saying. Her behavior is bullshit. Her
Carter: Her behavior, Danielle Smith's behavior is absolute and complete bullshit. shit it she has turned into uh the most disgusting form of of of partisan that there is one who creates their own facts and uh and tries to enable um you know it is government propaganda what they've done and the fact that they've moved the old uh you know cory hogan's old department into the premier's department doesn't exactly make me feel even more confident that we're not going to to be just fed uh a steady stream of propaganda so by uh government ministries i
Zain: and complete
SPEAKER_08: doesn't exactly
Zain: so by uh government
Zain: i want to get to the strategic question here because shannon answered it from her perspective carter is this a tire fire for daniel smith or is this just as planned i
Carter: think it's a tire fire for daniel smith because i think that you still continue to believe that i do think that most albertans will be put off by this and they'll be put off by the crazy the crazy makes sense in daniel smith's world daniel loves the crazy she's a big embracing of the of the crazy jen pop hasn't seen the crazy crazy now jen pop gets to see the crazy up close and this is this is going i mean the only thing that's going for her is that it's july and no one's paying attention but if the ndp has half a brain which is arguably questionable then
Zain: because i think that you still continue to believe that i
Carter: then the ndp will in some fashion be in a position where they can take advantage of this well
Shannon: well and i think they have i i like to be fair to the ndp you know they why would we start have
Carter: would we start have
Shannon: have launched uh you know they're they're sort of they're better together other nice branding tight message they've got some town halls so i mean it shouldn't be town
Carter: shouldn't be town halls though like well i
Shannon: well i mean they're doing the response to these ones and i think that's fine i
SPEAKER_00: doing the response to
Carter: and i think that's fine i
Carter: i don't know
Shannon: well i mean as long as you're doing other things right but you have to do a response i think and i
Carter: doing other things right but
Carter: have to do a response i
Carter: think and i
Shannon: i will also say that the cpp town halls were enormously successful when we did them in response to i i this you know ridiculous propaganda exercise when they threw eight million and dollars at Albertans around the Alberta pension plan, and it blew up spectacularly in their faces.
Carter: them in response to
Shannon: So, you know, I think they have to do something in response. And this is one way that they can kind of engage their membership as well. So and, you know, sort of, and we'll test Carter's theory of whether Gen Pop is down with this or not, based on some of what the New Democrats do do and what kind of, you know, soil they can till. That is why the New Democrats probably need to round out this Better Together campaign, which I really liked, and I think is effective, with some other ways that people can plug in, survey stuff, whatever, right, to kind of slipstream behind the government's bullshit process and demonstrate a, you know, a more good faith approach
Shannon: approach to hearing Shannon,
Zain: let's say you and the Premier are on friendly terms. You're a strategic advisor to her. She calls you tonight. She says, listen, you probably saw some of the shit that happened in Edmonton, Red Deer, Sherwood Park. Do I need to change anything? Or am I good? Should I just keep plugging along? What's your answer to her? I
Shannon: would say if what you want to do is validate your position that there's a lot of separatism out there and we just need a better deal from Ottawa because it's the only card you have because your health care system is on fire because you're perpetually at war with your education system. You're going into a bunch of labor disruption. So
Shannon: So you're going to want a nice distraction and something that can continue to raise the kind of money that the UCP has been raising, which is significant.
Shannon: Then carry on.
Zain: Carter, same phone call to you right after. She says, Carter, you know, you've worked with me for a long time. Part of that is true. You've worked with me once before. Do I need to change anything, Carter, going forward? Yes, you need to
Carter: Yes, you need to be honest. I mean, if you're going to do a consultation process, you can't let it be taken over by crazy people who are ill-informed. You must tell the truth. And this is something that applies not just to this panel, but it applies to books and libraries. It applies to how the health care system functions. Everything that Shannon's talking about, you know, that is going to turn into an absolute shit show isn't going to be made better by telling falsehoods and lies. OK,
Zain: I'm going to I'm going to leave this segment there and move it on to our over under our lightning round. And I'm going to group in some of the things I mentioned that you guys did not pick up on on this and just get your takes on it relatively quickly. quickly uh so we'll do an expanded over under a lightning round carter let me start with you um pierre polyev's by election if you're him are you concerned at all is this like a mosquito bite or is this actually like an irritant beyond that um the the the the number that you're trying to reach this independent candidate that's set up the timing of it uh
Zain: uh irritant not so much what are you thinking of it i
Carter: i think it's a mosquito bite i don't think it's something that's that's It's going to matter in the long term. Generally speaking, the, you know, the independents get a lot of attention and then they don't get a lot of votes.
Zain: Shannon,
Zain: what do you think?
Shannon: Yeah, it's nothing. Anybody who thinks the independent is going to do much beyond the usual, you know, 10, 15, whatever, is spending too much time on threads. I'm
Zain: going to put C5 with the broader sort of position
Zain: that Carney's coalition, at least the one that that opportunistically voted for him, that probably included quite a few new Democrats. Is Carney abandoning progressives? And is this going to cost him, Shannon? Like, from what you've seen thus far, with the cuts being requested, with the cuts of the CBC and Via Rail also included in that, with the C5 and the mealy-mouthed, and I'm maybe not being as generous as I should be, sort of talk that he has regarding Indigenous consultation, the abandonment of progressives, I think, was inevitable at some point. It seems to be happening a lot quicker in my mind. I'm curious to get your thoughts on this in terms of if you think this is the start of the Carney progressive abandonment. We
Shannon: haven't seen it in the numbers yet.
Shannon: So, you know, there's a lot of chatter about that. But look at his numbers and
Zain: So,
Shannon: and his numbers are extraordinary. And so I would argue that, you know, C5 and even the request for cuts, nothing's actually happened yet. No one has had a reduced service because of a decision that was made as a result of a budget that passed Parliament. No one yet has seen a large project. No one has had any environmental assessment or other rules waived. And so, in fact, no one's even seen the first, you know, project or two move
Shannon: move through the major projects office, which is in any case not probably going to be set up until after
Shannon: after the summer is over. So the honeymoon continues right now, and there's a bit of chatter, I would say, you
Shannon: you know, coming from the left. But because he hasn't done anything yet, to Carter's point about Gen Pop, Gen Pop isn't seeing the problem yet. The material conditions of their lives or the presence of government in their lives has not changed yet.
Carter: And
Shannon: And so once
Carter: And
Carter: And
Shannon: once it does, then I think we'll we'll see, because he really did get elected on kind of a, you know, in all things to all people. Right. So rubber will meet the road and it will depend on how effective
Shannon: effective the New Democrats are in scooping some of that up as well.
Zain: Carter, I use the word abandoning. Let me use the word alienating. Is Carney alienating progressives? Well,
Carter: the six or seven of them that are left probably feel pretty bad. But there's just not that many who are identifying as that progressive at this particular moment in time. Most people seem to be in a relatively pragmatic mood. Well, that's a fair
Zain: a fair
Zain: fair answer, given the numbers. Let me ask the question slightly differently and interrupt you partway, which is, could Carney's moves and requests reignite the progressive movement? Of course, the natural sort of home for that would be the New Democrats and their leadership race coming up, being kicked off, so to speak. But do you feel like some of his actions could actually kickstart that and potentially even catalyze the progressive rebirth a lot faster, Carter? Well,
Carter: Well, I'm sure that it could if there were competent politicians in the NDP who are actually trying to take advantage of that. Fortunately, I haven't seen any as yet.
Zain: I
Carter: Shannon,
Zain: Shannon, I want to give you the same sort of opportunity
Zain: opportunity at the B side of this question, which is, could this catalyze the reinvigoration or rebirth of the progressives across the country with Carney's moves? moves.
Shannon: Absolutely, both within the Liberal Party of Canada caucus, if their numbers start to slide a little bit, because
Shannon: because they exist there too.
Zain: because they
Shannon: And it could very well really help the New Democrats raise some money and get through this really tough time. And so it is there. But right now, we don't have that. Because the New Democrats are leaderless, there is no, You know, the race hasn't started yet, yada, yada.
Shannon: And so pushback is going to have to come from, well,
Shannon: well, kind of three places. The LPC caucus not happening in the first few months of a mandate, or
SPEAKER_00: or even
Shannon: or even as we saw with the Trudeau government, even in the last few months of a mandate, it was still pretty thin in terms of caucus actually finding a spine and a brain.
Shannon: Second of all, it can come from civil society and from labor. uh and basically from the street and so i i think that's the the most likely scenario right now uh once they start making decisions in the fall and i would say more likely in
Shannon: in spring of 26 is when you're going to see a rubber meat road just given how much time it takes to do things and so on uh
Shannon: uh and we haven't seen uh out of uh some of the indigenous activity a lot of like blockade or other stuff
Shannon: stuff happening yet. It's in summer when those sorts of things happen. We haven't seen a lot of it coming out of Ring of Fire and Northern Ontario where it could. That's not to say it won't.
SPEAKER_01: It's
Shannon: That'll be the first places where the Indigenous street, if you will, probably starts to move, and that will far precede whatever's happening in the House of Commons.
Zain: Carter, I'm going to go to you for our next one. Are you in or are you out? Out. On Pierre Poliev, slamming Carney over his investment disclosures. This is that ethics screen which is now public. Carney's now, sorry, Poliev, I should say, is arguing that the PM needs to sell his assets that the Prime Minister has transferred to a blind trust, and it's evidence that the Liberal leader wasn't being honest with Canadians on the campaign trail. This is an item that Poliev went out and did a whole presser on this past week, tried to make it and drum it up as a larger issue on ethics. Are you in or are you out with the Poliev frame on this, both in terms of how he's framed it, but also in terms of making this a top priority story and trying to go after this? I'm
Carter: I'm totally out. First of all, I'm out because I don't think that it will resonate with Canadians. I think that Canadians understand what a blind trust is, and they have long understood that politicians put their assets into a blind trust while they're serving in government. The second reason I am out is that, what do you expect them to do? Turn all that into fucking cash? he's just gonna walk around with briefcases full of full of you know my you know cold hard cash that he walks around with like what the fuck he has to have a portfolio everybody's entitled to have an investment is pierre polyev not gonna have any investments to what what is he doing with his with his assets oh he probably doesn't have any because he's been a career politician for 20 fucking years i mean this guy who hasn't achieved anything is out there trying to uh humiliate someone who's only done, you know, great things and just kicked his ass in the fucking election. Pierre Polyev, stand down. You don't know what you're doing. It's
Carter: embarrassing. Everything
Shannon: embarrassing. Everything that Carter's just said is true, but I am super in on this strategy just because what the hell else is Polyev ever going to talk about? You know, if it's not this, then he's what? Like screaming at the public safety minister because he didn't personally prevent a stabbing at a jail? Like, I mean, the kind of small talk... You think this is more on
SPEAKER_03: You know,
Zain: of small talk... You think this is more on message than that other thing that you were talking about? Well, otherwise, it's just small
Shannon: you were talking about? Well, otherwise, it's just small-ball bullshit. It's all small-ball
Carter: small-ball bullshit that doesn't have any meaning. Well, but this community gift that
Shannon: that doesn't have any meaning. Well, but this community gift that keeps on giving is the issue. It's not the issue today. And Canadians, yes, they understand the concept of a blind trust. I'm
Carter: the concept of a blind trust. I'm disgusted. But
Shannon: I'm disgusted.
Shannon: But the fact is, is that, you know, you've got a treasure trove of name-brand companies, and you can, you know, spin up a yarn of self-dealing. And it's not today that it's the Achilles heel of the Liberal Party of Canada is self-dealing and, you know, perceptions of corruption, particularly having to do with, you know, kind of Central Canada, Laurentian elites, all of that, it's something. And when you've got nothing, having something that you can build a narrative off of, yeah, for sure. Probably
Carter: perceptions of corruption,
Carter: corruption,
Zain: a third time in the show, Carter, that Shannon sold me on something that I was indifferent on, or lukewarm on.
Carter: I tend to agree with... Shannon is completely wrong on this particular issue. I mean, if the...
Zain: to agree with... Shannon is completely
Zain: on this particular issue.
Zain: I
Zain: the... She couldn't be more wrong. if it's we have to
Carter: be more wrong. if it's we have to have a system that enables people to have assets when they run for office sure and to manage those opposition leader
Shannon: and to manage those opposition leader your job is to criticize the government and find no it's not it's
Carter: no it's not it's not it's not to tear down the prime minister for personal let me ask let me ask the question they have that are being done properly if they were being done improperly if it was the fucking weed charity then maybe we could start seeing something like that but this is fucking fucking bullshit let
Shannon: personal let me ask let me ask the question they have that
Shannon: being
Shannon: if it was the fucking weed charity
Shannon: maybe we could start
Zain: me ask the question this way carter downside risk for peer on this well
Carter: one day he may have an asset and when he does have an asset he's gonna have to put that as so none i'm hearing none i'm
Zain: as so none i'm hearing none i'm hearing none i'm hearing none he does have
Shannon: i'm
Carter: i'm
Shannon: i'm
Shannon: hearing none he does have an asset it's called a defined benefit pension that's one of the most generous uh it probably is the most generous in the country yeah but he argues against it he said
Carter: yeah but he argues against it he said he was only going to serve two fucking terms the guy's a fucking ball that bald-faced liar that's what he is carter
Zain: carter you want to end on that that energy i
Carter: i can keep going it's up to you good
Zain: do you have anything else you want to talk about i feel like you need to get something off your chest here i thought i was driving for a bit but i feel like you really want to no
Carter: i'm pretty upset about the cold play ceo we're
Zain: we're gonna leave it there that's a wrap on episode 1879 of the strategist my name is zane velji with me as always shannon phillips stephen carter and we shall see you next time your
SPEAKER_07: local weather forecast for winter 2026 cold there's gonna be a lot of snow and not a lot of sun it's also going to be long really really long you're
SPEAKER_01: you're welcome conquer winter in the kia sportage with kia's available features like all-wheel drive heated steering wheel and heated front and rear seats for the whole family visit your local kia dealer or kia.ca today and get great lease and finance offers kia movement
SPEAKER_01: movement that inspires a
SPEAKER_04: cast powers the world's best podcasts here's
SPEAKER_04: the show that we recommend i'm
SPEAKER_00: terry hart and this is the heart of it all a podcast about navigating the messy beautiful beautiful, complicated realities of caregiving for our aging loved ones. Every week, I sit down with experts, caregivers, and families to talk honestly about what it means to support an aging parent. If you're a caregiver or you want to know what to expect when you inevitably become one, you're in the right place. The heart of it all. That's heart spelled H-A-R-T. New episodes every week, wherever you get your podcasts. Acast
SPEAKER_03: helps creators launch, grow, and monetize their podcasts everywhere. Acast.com.