Episode 1876: LastMealAtSwiss.ca

January 17, 2026

Zain: This is a strategist episode 1876. My name is Zain Velji. With me, as always, Stephen Carter and no one else. What happened? Was this a

Carter: happened? Was this a scheduling issue? It basically was. I mean, we could have invited any number of people to join us today. We have a

Zain: join us today. We have

Zain: a solid

Carter: solid

Zain: solid roster.

Carter: roster. We have a roster of people we could have invited, and I didn't invite any of them. I

Zain: roster. We have a roster

Carter: I

Zain: I don't know why you've taken this on on your own. Can we talk about this? Why have you kept me out of the reach out process? process well

Carter: I don't know why you've

Carter: talk about this? Why

Carter: well because you know you bring us bad people zane and uh so i'm in charge whoever

Zain: whoever i brought us name names i'm not naming

Carter: naming names name name names the audience knows the audience where

Zain: name name names the audience knows the audience where we're talking about the classic episode 500 classic

SPEAKER_00: where

Carter: classic 500 yeah you

Zain: you need the people need to go back to the archive they

Carter: they need to do we

Zain: to do we

Zain: we didn't do guests and then this was not a guest this was a fill-in and

Zain: and i was new yeah

Carter: yeah

Zain: yeah and i wanted to celebrate in style episode 500 tells them everything they need to know i don't love

Carter: know i don't love that episode though i

SPEAKER_00: mean it's

Carter: it's tragic but it was it was something good what

Zain: what was your favorite part of the uh the argument that we had that ultimately led to the

Zain: the the destruction of the two microphones that we had to pay out of the non-existent patreon money at that time yeah

Carter: yeah i mean you telling me that i would never win a provincial election was really upsetting um you

Carter: you i don't have the skills to to win anything province-wide hurt hurt my feelings let me

Zain: hurt hurt my feelings let me litigate that again did you win a provincial election or did others lose a provincial election steven carter well

Carter: that's just splitting hairs can

Zain: can you just tell us the name of the person that was on the top of the ballot for that provincial election just one more time for us allison

Carter: allison redford allison

Zain: allison redford okay perfect for those of you which is probably very few keeping square at home he said it again yeah

Carter: yeah uh

Zain: uh carter it's just the two of us so what are we doing we we have many options let me let me list you through the options okay we can we can we can fuck around for for an hour um

Zain: um let's do a tight 45

Carter: let's do a tight 45 fucking around okay

Zain: okay sorry sorry i'm sorry yes we can fuck around for a tight 45 yeah that's

Zain: good fucking around needs a hard needs a hard concrete yeah 45 we've been pretty good at the concrete 45s you know why because she's like shannon's got a real job it

Carter: hard needs a hard concrete

Carter: it does it feels like shannon's like got places to go and people to see she works

Zain: like shannon's like got

Zain: she works for a place that's got policy advisors yeah

Carter: yeah as

Zain: as part of it like we don't advise on something as big as policy no

Carter: no no

Carter: no i mean we talk about strategy which is we try to keep her time we

Zain: i mean

Zain: we try to keep her time we try to keep her time relatively um

Zain: um in check uh and and respected which is not something respect for time is not something that i have had for our collective time when cory's been around um

Carter: and and

Carter: which is not something

Zain: um or or our time because carter time in my culture is is very flexible so we can fuck around for a quick 45 yeah

Carter: so we can fuck

Carter: yeah we

Zain: we could um we

Zain: could talk about the basketball game last night and And just make this one of several NBA

Zain: NBA reaction pods to

Zain: to the Halliburton injury in the first. Halliburton? Halliburton. Halliburton, right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Carter: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Zain: Do you want to go down that path? No.

Carter: No. You

Zain: You do not. We could do something we've promised never to do. Okay. We

Zain: could dig deep into the mailbag.

Carter: No.

Zain: No.

Carter: No. Really?

Zain: Really?

Carter: Really?

Zain: We could dig deep into the mailbag. Do you want to actually do that? I mean,

Carter: mean, is

Carter: is there an easier way for us to phone in a whole episode?

Zain: easier way for

Zain: There is not an easier way. I mean, since you said you pretty much showed me your lack of knowledge on the Halliburton side of things. I

Carter: I mean, Halliburton to me sounds like a company that does oil services. Carter, Carter,

Zain: Carter, Carter,

Zain: Carter, we have we actually have the Google sheet here. OK,

Zain: OK,

Carter: OK, OK, OK.

Carter: This

Zain: This is just this week's questions. What? There's so many of them. How do we get these every week? Who

Zain: put this together? I've never looked at this. I actually didn't realize that there's a tab at the bottom. Well,

Carter: realize that there's a tab at the bottom.

Carter: I think they do this weekly. We do this every week. Jesus Christ, there's a last week's questions? Let's see this. what okay

Zain: weekly. We do this every week. Jesus Christ, there's a last week's

Carter: wow

Zain: wow

Carter: wow um

Zain: um this is not good my

Zain: goodness carter okay i'm just gonna look through this this is it's broken down it's broken down by alberta national um municipal

Zain: municipal

Zain: okay and then we've got a section uh that's does it matter that

Carter: okay and

Carter: matter that municipal spelled incorrectly it

Zain: it does not matter what the

Carter: matter what the

Zain: the fuck is with zane's swiss chalet hat do you love rotisserie chicken that much i can knock this one off okay

Carter: okay yes

Zain: yes yes there

Carter: there was never a question in my mind i knew it to be sure oh

Zain: oh my god i've got an a24 hat i've got a swiss is swiss chalet is a national institution that does not get the love that tim hortons gets and it's way

Carter: i've got an a24 hat i've

Carter: and it's way better than tim hortons go way better i'm

Zain: go

Zain: way better i'm gonna tell people go read the story about swiss chalet how it started the origin story the secret multi-millionaire that just passed away that's been behind swiss chalet is a canadian institution that does not get the love that it respects. And so, Carter, I have Swiss Chalet flip-flops.

Carter: about swiss

Carter: And so, Carter,

Carter: Come on. I

Zain: I have a Swiss Chalet oversized tee with the entire history. Yeah, I went hard in the paint with their summer collection last season. It's pretty fucking good. I'm

Carter: It's pretty fucking

Carter: I'm proud of you. I don't have it

Zain: I don't have it today. So, for those wondering, yes, Swiss Chalet is the fucking best. Carter, I've knocked one off the— Not to you, bye, Swiss

Carter: knocked one off the— Not to you, bye, Swiss Chalet.

Zain: Well, what we wish. I don't even want to joke about that. We do it just for extra sauce.

Carter: We do it just for extra sauce. you know

Zain: know i

Carter: i

Zain: i

Zain: want that sponsor so badly we will quit this ailing and dying machine once we do have swiss chalet yeah that'll be the ball game

Carter: game you

Zain: you know it's true like their audience will match our audience one day which is 5 p.m 85 near

Carter: which is 5

Zain: last meal something like

Carter: meal something like that how

Zain: how many last meals in this country have been provided by swiss chalet that's an actuarial science question wow i want to figure out well

Carter: wow

Carter: i want to

Carter: well since there hasn't been a execution in this country since

Zain: since

Carter: since when no no

Zain: no no i I don't mean like people asking their last meal. Oh, I see. I mean all people at 5.30 having some Swiss Chalet and

Carter: Oh, I see. I mean all people

Zain: then by, you know, 6.45 saying goodbye to the world. That's what I mean. That's

Carter: That's what I mean. That's probably a significant number. I think it's more than 10. Do you think it's more than 10? It is. It's certainly less. It's more than zero.

Carter: For sure. For

Carter: sure. I'm going to go with more than 10.

Carter: More than 10 this

Zain: More than 10 this year. Are we going public with this episode? because now I feel like we need to get the entire brainpower of our listenership to

Carter: to give

Zain: give me an actuarial flow

Zain: flow through of how many people this is. How many last meals have been had at

Zain: at Swiss Chalet? Okay,

Zain: Okay, we're not counting the last meals requested at Swiss Chalet because we don't have the death penalty in that same way. But we're talking about how many last meals have been had at Swiss Chalet. Let's

SPEAKER_00: Swiss Chalet because we don't have the death penalty in that same

SPEAKER_00: But

Carter: But

SPEAKER_00: But

Carter: But we're talking

SPEAKER_00: talking

Carter: talking about

Carter: Let's do this public. This is going to be a public episode. Okay, here

Zain: here we go. Q

Carter: Q

Zain: Q

Carter: Q&A, phoning

Zain: &A, phoning

Carter: phoning it in. No, no, we need a

Zain: No, no, we need a place for people to show their math. Where can we do that?

Carter: We have a Patreon page. No,

Carter: No, no, no, they need

Zain: No, no, no, they need to go somewhere to do it. Oh,

Carter: Oh, okay. How about lastmealatswiss

Zain: lastmealatswiss.ca? Do you think that's...

Carter: Lastmealatswiss.ca probably exists. We could take that. Okay,

Zain: Okay, so

Carter: so

Zain: so come to lastmealatswiss.ca. We'll have some sort of form there in

Carter: so come

Carter: in order

Zain: order for you to figure out and give us your math, okay? Now, we will be able to tell, Stephen and I, if you have chat GPT'd this, because it will look too polished. We will be able to tell if you have perplexity this, because it will look too good. Carter and I want

Carter: because it

Zain: your logic. We want your brain. We don't want anything artificial. We want none of the slop in our inboxes at lastmeletswitch.ca. That's

Carter: inboxes at lastmeletswitch

Carter: That's not just ask them for something without offering something back. Oh, yeah. What are we going to give them? we're gonna if the best response gets a 15 gift certificate for swiss chalet no

Zain: best response

Zain: no no okay well and added i will find a swiss chalet hat sign it for you and send it to you oh

Carter: oh my god this is a carter do you want to

Zain: carter do you want to sign it too yeah

Carter: yeah i'll sign it too but okay carter will sign it as well really valuable can

Zain: okay carter will sign it as well really valuable

Zain: can we get cory decided or is that against his like would that be counted as something you know

Carter: you know what let's get cory decided let's

Carter: let's

Zain: let's get cory decided okay

Carter: okay questions asked like we'll just be like hey cory will you sign this you will get the

Zain: okay questions

SPEAKER_00: questions asked like we'll just be like hey cory will

Zain: will

SPEAKER_00: will you

Zain: will get the original strategist and we might even reach out to chester you might get four signatures on this swiss chalet hat okay oh

Carter: okay oh my god not chester we will get

Zain: chester we will get you a swiss chalet hat we will sign it with four distinct signatures that are more than likely from the four people we tell you they are i see how it'll see what i like protected ourselves against the hedge of cory being a member of parliament and maybe not being able to sign a swiss chalet he can

Carter: what i like protected ourselves against the

Carter: he can sign shit i don't know if he can sign he can sign certificates We

Zain: he can sign

Zain: We need the brain trust of this podcast to let us know if Corey can sign shit. Here's

Carter: Here's what we do. Here's what we do. We get him to do a certificate of, you know, from the federal government.

Zain: We get him to do

Zain: federal government.

Zain: Corey will reach out and

Zain: and use his powers in government. Exactly. He will give you a certificate

Carter: Exactly. He will give you a certificate acknowledging your achievement. I

Zain: acknowledging your

Zain: actually am in love with this idea. This is the best.

Carter: This is the best.

Zain: Now, our lack of follow through has been historically noted by our listenership. No, this one's going to be huge.

Carter: No, this one's going to be huge.

Zain: We're very pumped about this. But we actually want your explanations of how many last meals have

Carter: Do people think this podcast

Zain: Do people think this podcast

Carter: podcast is scripted, Carter? I

Zain: I

Carter: I think

Zain: think

Carter: think

Zain: think

Carter: think they do.

Zain: think they do. LastMeal at Swiss.ca. We will have a form there where you could explain your logic. You know what? I'm going to offer this, and I don't even know if we can do this. We're going to let you upload attachments if you need to. If you need to show your work and you've done it on paper, we

Zain: we will let you upload attachments. attachments carter i think we have to go deeper into the mailbag do you want to do this actually we've already killed nine

SPEAKER_00: we've

Carter: we've already killed nine minutes we've got nine minutes i've

Zain: got nine minutes i've

Zain: i've answered one question and created probably the greatest promotion that we've ever experienced on the show we might

Carter: show we might do a custom url for every question we might okay look

Zain: okay look let me let me jump this i'll give you a choice do you want alberta do you want federal or do you want

Zain: municipal because we do have questions from all three literally from this week we've got provincial

Carter: provincial because today is my election day We've got 67

Zain: today is my election day We've got 67 things on here.

Carter: Okay, today's by-election day, so let's do provincial.

Zain: provincial. I've not read these in advance. Westriff Center did a good episode on something. I'm not reading that. What outrageous claims could NDP make that would cause the UCB conservatives to light their hair on fire? Basically, anytime Smith starts a sentence, it's, would you believe? Okay, how about this? There is a few questions around the NDP. Touch

Zain: on that. But I do like this question. Why does it seem like the NDP are doing such a bad job of holding Smith to account? We're seeing more stride in opposition from a former cabinet minister than Nenshi. OK, there's that statement. But then the question is, like, what can opposition forces beyond the NDP do? And maybe we can start there and work back to the NDP because it is by-election night. Is that fair? Sure. Why does it seem like that forces beyond the official opposition and others are also having an issue? And maybe I can expand the scope. Like, why does it feel like this seems to be a thing beyond Alberta as well, Carter, that like we're having a tough time opposing conservatives? We've had some time to soak in what the first hundred days of Trump have looked like. We've had the last couple of years of Danielle Smith.

SPEAKER_00: Why

Zain: Give me your starting thoughts here and I'll kind of add to the pile. Well,

Carter: Well, I think that we don't have a history of opposing the government particularly well in Alberta. Beyond what,

Zain: Beyond what, Rachel and the NDP? That

Carter: That was one time, and that was a moment

Carter: in time, if you will.

Carter: An early election call, a tremendously unpopular previous premier, a

SPEAKER_00: An

Carter: a tremendously unpopular premier at the time saying things like, look

Carter: look in the mirror.

Carter: They basically gave away the election to the NDP. And then really

Carter: really it was up in the air whether it would go to the Wild

Carter: Wild Rose or the NDP.

Carter: And I think it was, you know, I've covered 32

Carter: 32 different times that I think that it was Jim Prentiss himself when

Carter: when he chose to look at Rachel Notley and

Carter: and focus his attention on Rachel Notley in the debate. They

Zain: They

Carter: They

Zain: They gave

Carter: They

Carter: gave that that particular outcome. But we didn't have a history of a groundswell prior to that election. No one walked into that election saying, you know what, the opposition really have it this time. People were thinking, oh, Jim Prentiss, he's calling the election. He must know something that we don't know. Everybody was thinking that except the Strategist podcast, which is one of the reasons we started the podcast. We had 526 episodes in the can on the Zune exclusive. Yes, we did. Including episode 500,

Zain: Yes, we did. Including episode 500, the one I referenced. Yeah,

Carter: Yeah, and then we brought it, we brought it public, much

Carter: much to the chagrin of Chester, who was still angry about it.

Carter: But we brought it public as a result of the NDP

Carter: NDP looking

Carter: looking like they were going to be the ones to, you know, to win and us, us trying to force that, you know, narrative, because we were the only ones talking about it.

Carter: Nonetheless, Zane, we don't have a history of opposition from the general population. It's certainly not the same way we would see Ontario, the same way we would see Quebec, the same way we would even see British Columbia. That history doesn't exist. Our organizations, our organizational strength is weak in that particular area because a lot of people are told, if you don't support the government, then just keep your mouth shut,

Zain: right?

Carter: right? Right. And this is a keep

Carter: keep your mouth shut. You know, what did Ralph Klein say? Shoot, shovel, you

Carter: you know, and

Carter: and stay quiet. I can't remember what it was, but basically shoot, shovel and shut up. That's what he said when we had mad cow disease. And that seems to be the mantra of Alberta.

Carter: Just keep your mouth shut and everything else will work itself out.

Zain: Carter, here's an extension of that question for you. Like, who do you think the majority is in Alberta politics? Is it like zealous conservatives or is it more like flabby progressives? Like, do you feel like, you know, and the reason I add those words in front of it is because often

Zain: often it feels like the lion's share of people do

Zain: have an opportunity to open themselves up to the NDP, which is where I think the NDP's overall strength and strategy lies in, which is that the pool is there. But how would you kind of define like the electoral base in our province? I

Carter: I think I would define it in terms of engagement rather than in terms of ideology. Left

Zain: Left and right. I

Carter: I think that we have a hyper-engaged population of about 30% of the population. 20% is

Zain: I

Carter: UCP-leaning or conservative, and 10% is progressive-leaning. But

Carter: But it is a relatively small group of hyper-engaged. And even then, I've expanded hyper-engaged to basically include people who think about politics once in a while. Then we have the unengaged, who are by definition not tied

SPEAKER_00: But it is

Carter: to any ideology. And then we have the less engaged. And they're in the middle, and they'll move back and forth as required. But they're less

Carter: engaged, and their less engagement goes really far. They're not going to get engaged enough to mount a protest against something in Alberta. We would see, like, what's the biggest protest we've seen in Alberta? A

Carter: couple thousand? 15,000? Not even 15,000. 5,000 people, maybe? I mean, someone should probably go to largestprotestinalberta.ca and put in what their guess of the largest protest is. And we will

Zain: we will know if you have researched it. If

Carter: it. If you've researched it, yeah, because largest protest in alberta.ca feels like something that we should know. Was it Bill 13 that Ralph Klein brought forward? Was that Bill 11?

Carter: I don't remember. Way back in the 1990s.

Carter: Might

Carter: Might even have been the late 80s. No, 90s. 90s. Because he was elected in 93. So

Carter: So it was in the 90s when he brought in Bill 13 or

Carter: or 11. 11. One

Carter: One of those two.

Carter: But we'll find out because we've got the largest protest in Alberta.ca.

Zain: Carter, when you're on the opposition side of things, formally

Carter: formally

Zain: formally

Zain: as the NDP or informally as grassroots movements who don't like what this government is doing, talk to me about where

Zain: your propositional message comes in.

Zain: This is something that I'm trying to maybe impose a point on you, which is, do

Zain: do you feel, because I will ask it as a question, because I'm not sure I have a deep conviction to this point, but I'm going to phrase

Carter: but

SPEAKER_00: but I'm going to

Carter: to

Zain: phrase it just as we kind of bat this around. Do you feel like one of the things is that people have a fatigue towards things they can oppose, A, because they're happening so quickly, and the timeline of their sort of active moment, especially when it seems inevitable that they will happen or pass, is just so narrow trans rights or certain labor union sort of asks for example so that the time horizon because they're just going to there's a post-secondary we didn't really even get to the collective progressive spirit in this province didn't even get to absorb understand protest by the time it was done you

Zain: know what i mean yeah and and i think so that that that's one part of it but the other part is like the

Zain: alternatives the lack of solutions promised versus just opposing Do you feel like there's a there there that advocacy groups need to think about, even if they're opposing government legislation or stances, that they may need to start thinking about what gives people hope beyond just standing up and saying no to something, which is proposing an alternative or a solution? Or do you feel like that's not actually how you diagnose the issue or how you propose a strategic shift

Zain: shift in some way?

Carter: I think the strategic idea needs to be presented in a fashion that reflects the selfishness of the voter. And I think that oftentimes when we talk about trans rights, and please don't paint me as anti-trans, that would be very upsetting for me. Trans rights is not an everyone situation, right? LGBTQ is not an everyone situation. You know, most issues aren't an everyone organization. I think I've talked about the Calgary floods before.

Zain: is not an everyone situation.

Carter: The Calgary floods happened and 100,000 people are displaced. You know, we have a we have a massive flood, massive damage. Every community

Carter: community service is stretched to the actual absolute limits. I go to the Home Depot up in West Hills and I'm picking up, you know, stuff that I'm going to need to go in and inspect my house to make sure that it hasn't been damaged in the floods. And because we were evacuated, we were taken out of our homes and people

Carter: people are buying flowers, bedding flowers. right people are are plant doing their planters they're they're trying to make sure that their house looks pretty like what the fuck right like 100

Carter: 000 people out of 1.2 million were just were displaced one out of every 12 people had a hat were impacted by this but the 11

Carter: out of 12 people didn't give a fuck right

Carter: right and it didn't impact them it didn't change their lives and And they were still making sure that their bedding flowers were, you know, put in nicely so that their house would look pretty.

SPEAKER_00: and it

Carter: You know, they were just fresh rain. So

Carter: So you're allowed to plant.

Carter: I don't know. I mean, this is you've got to you've got to instill something to the to the

Carter: selfishness of the of the people. And it's selfishness or is it hope, Carter? No, like this is what I'm. No, it's not hope.

Carter: No, I mean, everybody. I mean, hope has been used. We've seen Barack

Carter: Obama and Bill Clinton both use some variant of hope, but

Carter: but we've also seen lots of people fail on hope.

Carter: What do you think ambition

Zain: ambition then fits in?

Zain: Where do you think, like, where do you think, you know, if we're proposing trans rights, sorry, if we're opposing government legislation on their anti-trans legislation, that's a better way to put it. That's probably

Carter: to put it. That's probably a better way of putting it. Yeah.

Zain: it. Yeah. What is what

Zain: is the hope there? What is the ambition there? Like it's versus being like, let's not do this.

Zain: It's almost seems like progressives in today's environment have been become de facto defenders of the status quo, that

Zain: that they're trying to be like, keep everything the same, which has a bit of like historical irony, considering progressives are the one trying to advance the cause not to stick with the status quo. But we've almost been stuck, forced

Zain: forced into the position of defending rather than actually proposing what the future should look like.

Carter: Well, I think that progressives are struggling right now. There was a lot of achievement that occurred in the 2000s, 2010s that is starting to backslide in the 2020s. I talked about

Zain: about that as progress that wasn't banked, progress that felt like it was…

Zain: Or

Carter: Or it's just the ebb and flow of a pendulum. You think so? I absolutely think so. I think that when you take a historical look on this type of thing, you see great strides forward, followed by sometimes micro steps backwards and sometimes significant steps backwards. You see the introduction of the freedom of the press, the removal of propaganda and control of the federal government in

Zain: Or it's just the ebb and flow

SPEAKER_00: this type of thing, you

Carter: in the 1940s to the openness of the 1950s, And

Carter: And that is then met with the McCarthy era.

Carter: So, you know, like little

Carter: steps, little steps forward, little steps backward. You know, it takes decades for Reagan's changes to the to the Broadcast Standards Act to to to really destroy

Carter: television

Carter: television news, radio news, radio, television as we know it. and

Carter: and ultimately

Carter: leading to the nightmare that we're in now. I mean, I'm not sure, Zane, that we can say that this is anything but the normal ebb and flow of a step forward and two steps back, sometimes two steps forward, one step back. This feels like it's

Carter: it's a smaller subset that's been attacked, which doesn't in

Carter: in any way shape our mind to make it better, better

Carter: better but the

Carter: win is the the two steps forward one step back i think is where we are right now i

Zain: tend to disagree with that i think i think some of the ways that some progressive things have been sold in recent years have tried to capture progress quickly which is never a bad thing uh if you're bringing folks along but i feel like a lot of the backslide we are currently experiencing on a number of issues diversity issues trans rights etc is maybe because um in part, not to say that those that want to backslide it do not have nefarious agendas. Some of them certainly seem to. But in part, it's because I don't think enough people were brought along and felt like they had a stake in the issue, or they had an understanding of it. They're almost kind of told that this is the new reality.

Zain: And I think any political movement that, movements, plural, that says this is the new reality without bringing folks along, has that risk of folks kind of saying, okay, once the backslide gets here, maybe that backslide was more representative of my views, or because I wasn't brought along on the original decision, I'm

Zain: I'm going to naturally kind of go along with the backslide. I think that's good progress that as in banks looks like. I'm not saying that's the problem that ails the NDP, to be clear. But I do think that is a broader sort of Western democracy issue that many are feeling right now, which is, we seem to have made great progress, Even if you look at the last five years on the issue of diversity, equity, and inclusion as a construct, great

Zain: great progress in the first two years after 2020, and then a tremendous backslide starting with what happened in the US thereafter. I think that's a good representative example of things

Zain: people felt like they had to do versus things people felt like they were bought into and were pushing something for some success. I think you're giving

Carter: I think you're giving people too much credit. I think that people do not pay attention the way that you're describing it. I think that the

Zain: do not pay

Carter: greatest challenge for any opposition party, any government, any social

Carter: social advocacy group is

Carter: is getting people to give a fuck for longer than 15 or 20 minutes. And as soon as it starts to feel like it disadvantages them or that they're not part of the majority, they

Carter: they slide backwards. I mean, and this is the challenge

Carter: challenge is that a large portion of people are making their decision not because they have a strongly held position on it, but

SPEAKER_00: challenge

Carter: but because they are part of the majority and they want to be on the side that wins.

Carter: You know, I've seen that in virtually every election that I've worked on. You

SPEAKER_00: You

Zain: You

SPEAKER_00: You

Carter: know, people go, oh, who's the winner going to be? who's winning right

Carter: right like that and and that becomes one of the biggest motivators right go

Carter: back to 2015 looks like rachel notley was the one who was threatening um jim

Carter: jim prentice ergo everybody moves to rachel notley viability

Zain: viability question right people more

Carter: right people

Carter: more more than viability it's about who who's

Carter: who's the winner because i want to be on the side of the winner that's how shallow the decision making is come

Zain: shallow the

Zain: come with me then to new york city right now you've been following what's happening with Zoran Mamdani?

Carter: Oh, yeah. You

Zain: actually have not. No. You have no idea. You don't know what's going on. Give me one sentence

Carter: No. You

Carter: Give me one sentence of background and we'll see if I got one fact for it. Democratic

Zain: Democratic Socialists that could win on the seventh ballot against Cuomo tomorrow night

Carter: in the Democratic primary. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I'm not paying attention.

Zain: in the Democratic primary. Oh, okay. Yeah, no, I'm not paying attention.

Zain: A lot of propositional messaging. A lot of, like, you know, working class messaging, trying to reown that overall sort of narrative. I think it's a fascinating example. I want to move on, though, to tonight, Carter. Carter.

Zain: Let's use tonight and tomorrow as a reset point for the NDP. Not a reset, but like a new chapter because Nahid Nenshi will get a seat

Carter: Let's use tonight

Carter: Not

Zain: in the legislature. Really?

Carter: Really? Based

Zain: Based on the election outcome of Edmonton Strathcona, which we know.

Zain: There's a by-election in Olds, which

Zain: which the Alberta Republican Party is playing in. And then there's this bellwether,

Carter: which the Alberta

Zain: bellwether, lack thereof. Don't know if it's going to be close. Don't know if it's going to be an NDP outright re-secure with

Zain: with decent margins as they won last time in edmonton ellerslie

Zain: what what do you think the impacts of tonight are for the ndp and then flash forward for the ndp for me in terms of what you feel like they need to do if if tonight tomorrow is considered to be a new act for them well let's make sure i'm getting a seat with not now getting a seat yeah

Carter: well let's make sure i'm getting

Carter: yeah i mean let's take let's take uh old stittsbury three hills right off the table right yes

Zain: yes that's that that does not implicate them in that same way that is correct unless you just unless you disagree unless you feel like vote percentage or something Something, is that something you're looking at there? Nothing.

SPEAKER_00: not implicate

Carter: unless

Carter: Nothing.

Carter: I

Zain: I don't

Carter: I don't expect them to increase their vote percentage. I

Carter: I don't expect them to increase their vote total. I think that it will be a UCP victory with the Alberta Republicans higher than anybody would like.

Carter: What does that

Zain: What does that mean, 20s?

Carter: I'm hearing 30.

Carter: Wow.

Carter: Really? That's what I'm hearing.

Zain: Now,

Carter: Now, am I wrong? I wish I had this in front of me. Not a prediction. Is

Zain: had this in front of me. Not a prediction.

Zain: Is

Zain: Is this the same geographic territory that once had a separatist seat in the by-election? It is. okay so you know that i'm glad you do okay

Carter: seat in the by-election? It

Zain: okay so there is a history clearly here but 30 is wild to me like does let me tell you this or do you tell me this if that's 30 does

Zain: that become the story of the night oh

Carter: oh absolutely unless ellerslie goes blue ah

Zain: ah fair right

Carter: right if ellerslie goes to the ucp then then it becomes the story because the ndp collapsed so

Zain: then then it becomes the story because

Zain: so we could have a story tonight of of an NDP loss where they've won last time, last general election. Or it could be the separatist narrative comes right back at us and just drives in where we talk about Daniel Smith's referendum, what she's playing with fire on, et cetera, et cetera. Well,

Carter: Well, and then the idea of an early election, right? Don't both

Zain: Don't both of them give you that early election sort of landing spot? I don't know, for lack of a better term. I think that if

Carter: I think that if Ellerslie goes to the UCP and the Republican Party gets over 30 percent, we're going to the polls in the fall of 2025.

Zain: You mean in a matter of months?

Carter: Yeah. And we called on September the 8th.

Zain: on September the 8th. How would you frame that premise for her? An assailable, what mandate is she trying to capture? I

Carter: I think that she needs a brand new mandate given the Donald Trump. There's a brand new government in Ottawa. There's a Donald Trump issue. There's a separatist issue. Now, the fact that she stoked the fires doesn't mean she can't campaign against separatism. She needs to campaign against separatism. Ironically,

Zain: campaign against separatism. Ironically, wear Team Canada before the NDP get a chance to do so. Yep. And

Carter: Yep. And because they want to- How much of a risk is

Zain: because they want to- How much of a risk is that to you, by the way, right now, that she has this opportunity to both engineer,

Zain: engineer, not engineer, let me be,

Zain: partially engineer and give voice to, while lowering the bar, the separatist movement, and

Zain: then still continue to, not continue to, but then just find a Canada flag in the recycling bin and be like, oh, by the way, I was always this. I'm obviously partisan on this issue, so I'm trying to be as balanced as I can, but she's kind of doing a version of that.

Carter: I'm obviously

Carter: Yeah, absolutely she's doing a version of that.

Carter: I mean, this is most arsonists, right? I lit a fire, but I called the fire department. I wanted to see how it all came out. I mean, she's the arsonist in this story. By

Zain: she's the arsonist

Zain: By the way, I'm anti-fire sort of thing. Yeah,

Carter: Yeah, I've been anti-fire since from the beginning. I called the fire department. Sure, I lit the fire, but I called the fire department, you know, so I'm anti-fire. She's going to be the one who stoked the separatist movement, who gets to stand up and say, I am saving us from the separatists. And she can't have 30 percent, 40 percent, 50 percent. So

Zain: called the fire

SPEAKER_00: you

Zain: you know, so

Zain: So tell me this. this tell me this yeah

Carter: yeah um

Zain: um that

Zain: bad party the alberta republican separatist movement gets their 25 to 30 tonight uh

Zain: the ndp win ellerslie yeah does

Zain: does she need ellerslie in order to make her case she doesn't right

Carter: she's probably more threatened by 25 percent or 30 percent from the republicans than she's worried about edmonton staying orange yeah

Zain: right

Carter: right now she knows that she can win calgary in

Carter: in a much larger way than she won calgary in uh in the last election in 20 was it 2023 yes so she she knows she can win calgary um it's sure it's two years early and the last person who called an election early in alberta got his ass handed to him but

Zain: yes so she she knows

Carter: right

Carter: now all signals are go um

Carter: um if

Carter: if she makes a case that she needs a new mandate to deal with uh prime minister carney um and to deal with the separatists i think that she's got a clear path to having an election in uh september early october of 2025 which is a disaster for municipal elections

Carter: um an absolute disaster tell

Zain: tell me about um tell

Zain: me about the ndp playbook here can you write a few bullet points for them based on some of the scenarios that we see tonight so like you can Can you help the NDP out? Scenario A is,

Zain: and I'm going to call this the likely scenario, even though I don't have inside intel, which is that they win back Ellerslie and the Strathcona NAD's going to win,

Carter: to win, and

Zain: and this gets that 20% to 30% in holds.

Zain: holds. Yeah. And scenario B is they lose

Carter: lose Ellerslie and that 20% to 30% still holds.

Zain: I'm just going to keep that number for the Republican Party because I don't know where to oscillate it, but I just, a strong showing that is gets people to look twice. Let's call it that, right? That's what that 20% to 30% is, as we've discussed.

Carter: I'm just going

Zain: Give me some strategic bullet points for Scenario A and Scenario B for the NDP here. Scenario

SPEAKER_00: Scenario A

Zain: A

SPEAKER_00: A is the one where they

Zain: they win, Ellerslie. Scenario B is where they lose it. Do they shift the attention straight to republicanism? Do they take any seconds of their own? Do they talk about... Give me some thoughts here on their W and their L tonight. I

Carter: I think that if they win, Ellerslie, they got to talk about themselves as the natural opposition to the separatist movement.

Zain: Yes. They

Carter: They are the real opposition to the separatist movement. They cannot believe how much this has been stoked by Danielle Smith and how quickly it's happened. They are Captain Canada. You know, they are the ones wrapping themselves in the Canadian and the Alberta flags. They're

Carter: They're the ones who are going to make sure that

Carter: that the Alberta Republicans are not a force in the next election in 2027.

Carter: That needs to be their talking points. They need to make sure that they're strong

Carter: strong and that they come down to the Calgary Stampede with

Carter: significant presence. and

Carter: and significant activity so

Carter: so that everybody sees everybody everywhere there's

SPEAKER_00: that everybody

Carter: there's been a ongoing complaint of where's nahid uh

Carter: uh he needs to be in

Carter: fairness to him he

Carter: he is very good at stampede he

SPEAKER_00: will

Carter: will be highly highly visible during stampede he knows how to do 100

Carter: 100 150 events in 14 days

Carter: he's he's great at it so he needs to just do

Carter: do that and

Carter: and scale

Zain: scale that out with

Carter: with the

Zain: with the

Zain: the rest of

Carter: of that team yeah

Zain: yeah OK, so that's the win strategy. The win is you don't take a victory lap on Ellerslie. You're supposed to win anyways. You then take the Canada flag and you say, we're not going to let her take this. Like if they give that up to her, so to speak, or let her take it, that's a strategic L there. They need to grab that flag and say, we're the natural defenders of this province in this country on a wedge that the majority. OK, does

Zain: that strategy change, Carter, if they lose Ellerslie tonight? Yeah,

Carter: Yeah, because they'll be weaker. They'll

Carter: be weaker. They won't be able to stand up and say we are the natural government. You know, we are the ones who can stand up and pound

Carter: our chests, say that we are the ones who can oppose the

Carter: the

Carter: the separatist movement. The truth of the matter is that they will be weakened.

Carter: So they need to, in

Carter: that particular case, they need to say, we are going to undertake a significant re-evaluation of our positions, a significant re-evaluation of how we're communicating with Calgarians and Edmontonians and the people of Alberta. And we're going to come back in six weeks at the beginning of August or the middle

Carter: middle of August. And we're going to have a strong,

Carter: strong,

Carter: strong, we're going to begin NDP 2.0 under Nahed Nenji.

Zain: Publicly acknowledged reset.

Carter: I think it's the only way. I think that if you pretend that you're strong when you're actually weak, it's a huge mistake.

Zain: think that if you

Carter: But recognize that you have six weeks. You can do a reset in six weeks. We've

Zain: We've seen we've seen wilder shit in Canadian politics. There's

Carter: There's

SPEAKER_00: There's

Carter: There's

SPEAKER_00: There's

SPEAKER_00: There's rumors

Carter: rumors that they're they're bringing in some really solid, you know, organizational structures and some really solid organizational staff. If they're doing that and they have the ability to stand up and say, this is where we're going, then

Carter: I think that that they can do really well in six weeks. And in six weeks, you know, two weeks without a stampede. Why

Zain: without a stampede. Why six weeks? Why are you giving him six weeks? Is this just an arbitrary number? or are you tethering it to something?

Carter: something? It needs to be done before the beginning of September.

Zain: I hear you because you're looking at that early election. Because

Carter: Because the early election's coming three weeks after your six weeks. Fair

Zain: enough, right.

Carter: right.

Carter: And I would do a brand shift. You're

Carter: not going to be the NDP anymore.

Zain: Oh, talk to me about that bit more. I'm not into that, but personally, as you can see, I react to that.

Carter: But

SPEAKER_00: But I'm

Carter: But

Zain: But I'm more than willing to listen, Carter. What are you talking about here? Because when I hear brand shift, I'm not hearing brand change. And maybe I felt like I heard brand change. So I'll let you explain it rather than me emoting my reaction to it well your brand

SPEAKER_00: Because when I hear brand

Carter: brand

Carter: well your brand first of all isn't working right

Carter: right if you've lost ellerslie you your brand is broken right

Carter: so let's be clear no one's buying your product anymore sure

Carter: you won strathcona but if you you know if

Carter: if you lose if you won strathcona with anything less than 65 percent um you're losing strathcona like you've lost a significant amount of okay keep going

Zain: a significant amount of okay keep going keep going i'll oppose my objections in a second your

Carter: i'll oppose my

Carter: your brand isn't working right

Carter: right so take that as step one step

Carter: Step two, it used to be the, instead of the Alberta New Democratic Party, it used to just simply be the New Democrats.

Carter: When Pam Barrett was the leader, it was the New Democrats. It was the Alberta New

Zain: Democrats. It was the Alberta New Democrats, yeah. It was just, no,

Carter: It was just, no, it was just the New Democrats. There

Carter: was no Alberta tagged to the front, back. Well, that's what you're

Zain: Well, that's what you're going after, not the, okay, sorry, sorry. I thought you were going after the party aspect, not the, okay, keep going. So I would rename,

Carter: not the, okay,

Carter: keep going. So I would rename, or I would come out of this as the Alberta Democrats.

Zain: Carter, do

Zain: do you want to be associated with the Democrats in the US? Absolutely,

Carter: Absolutely, I do.

Zain: Fuck, man, that is a failing- you know why they

Carter: you know why they get 45 of the vote and you get fuck you and you lose ellerslie oh

Carter: oh man

Zain: man i i

Zain: no i don't agree with that well i don't think it's strategic i don't think it's right strong enough like they're losing ellerslie

Carter: well i don't think it's strategic i don't think it's right strong enough like they're losing ellerslie carter we've seen they're losing ellerslie

Zain: seen they're losing ellerslie name the last successful political rebrand in this country the

Carter: the bc united oh

Zain: oh perfect yeah yeah

Carter: yeah

Zain: yeah

Carter: yeah yeah rebrand a shift in name is essential in this province. I

Zain: yeah rebrand a

Zain: may have agreed with you three

Zain: years ago. Damn right. I don't agree with you now. I really don't. Well, I mean, you

Carter: Damn

SPEAKER_00: Damn

Carter: Damn right.

SPEAKER_00: right. I don't agree with

Carter: Well, I mean, you being wrong, though, isn't necessarily new.

Zain: necessarily new.

Zain: 10 minutes, we're going to get through three questions. You know why? Because we've got 60 questions. Did we

Carter: questions. Did we answer any questions so far?

Zain: No, I think we've given people great things to think about, Carter. Because

Carter: Because I'm not sure that we've

Zain: we've

Carter: we've

Zain: we've answered any questions. They've

Carter: They've annoyed me, and

Carter: now I'm thinking, you know what, I don't like these questions.

Zain: Yeah, I'm going to put these two together because I like these questions. This is a good question.

Zain: Is there an effective way to pressure elected MLA from stepping away from their party line? And I'm going to tag in a second question here. What

Zain: would it take for Peter Guthrie to be an effective disruptor? You could see how those are related, right?

Zain: So maybe let's focus on the first part first, which is, and I'm assuming this means government MLA, although this person has not said that. But they do have a follow-up, which is if you speak to them in person, meet and greet, and have only a couple of minutes' time, what's the move? That's a good Stampede question, right? You run into a bunch of these folks during Stampede. How do you get them to have sympathy and then go as far as stepping away from their party line? That's the question that is asked here.

Zain: I think

Zain: I know where you're going to go, but I'm going to give you a shot at it anyways.

Carter: Assume sympathy with the individual.

Zain: Yep.

Carter: So you start off with, I know you're in a difficult spot.

Zain: Yep. I

Carter: I know that you

Carter: you and I have agreed on lots of different things.

Zain: Yep. And

Carter: And so immediately you're bringing them over to your side. Yes.

Carter: Yes.

Zain: Yes. And

Carter: Yes. And

SPEAKER_00: And

Carter: I have one question for you. How

Carter: is it that you're able to stand with Danielle in the face of blank, the

Carter: the coal mining, in the face of the- Trans rights. Trans rights. In the face of- Post-hack funding or whatever. Indigenous. The separatist question. Another

Zain: Trans rights. Trans rights. In the face of- Post-hack funding or whatever. Indigenous. The separatist

Zain: Another big one, yes.

Carter: big one, yes. The Alberta pension plan.

Carter: Whatever the situation, whatever you want to do, but you have to start off by bringing them over to your side to begin with. Okay.

Zain: Okay. Right.

Carter: Okay.

Carter: Right. So, you

Carter: know, who should we pick on? Searle Turton, right? Our good friend Searle. Our good friend Searle.

Zain: Searle. Our good friend Searle. Comes down and

Carter: Comes down and I say, Searle, we've agreed on so many different things. How do you stand? How do you stand with Danielle when

Carter: it comes to the question of separation? Do

Zain: Do you go after them personally? Like, this is, I'm glad this person asked this. Yeah,

Carter: glad this person asked this. Yeah,

Zain: like, but do you kind of say, like, I thought you were better than this? I've always heard people kind of say, like, you know, I thought, like, almost shaming them into it. Where does, you

Zain: know, obviously you don't want to do that publicly, but if this person's question is about a private conversation, which I like the setup here, how

Zain: personal can you get around someone's values and almost like, I hate to use this word, but I think it's an appropriate one, their morality, right? Like, I thought you were better than this, right? I've

Carter: right? I've had these conversations a number of times.

Carter: And have you used terminology like that? I have used values-based, morality-based questions because ultimately the hardest thing for an individual to walk away from is his or her own values, right?

Zain: And have you used terminology like that? I

Zain: because

SPEAKER_00: because

Carter: right? They will be accused

Zain: They will be accused of not being consistent with them.

Carter: Well, none

Carter: none of us are consistent with our values, but to have an obvious inconsistency pointed out is challenging.

Carter: challenging.

Zain: challenging.

Carter: challenging.

Carter: challenging. It's a challenging moment.

Carter: And

Zain: And

Carter: And was this actually a question?

Carter: Yeah. It was a good question. Wow, out of 67, that's not bad. One good question.

Zain: One good question. What does Guthrie need to do? Let's end it here.

Carter: What does Guthrie need to do? To be an effective

Zain: To be an effective pest. I'm using the word pest, but I like it.

Zain: He's

Carter: He's just got to start implying that he knows stuff, that he knows things that have occurred behind the scenes.

Carter: That's what the media are looking for. They don't want just another person standing up and saying, there's something that smells bad about this deal deal with the corrupt care right

Carter: guthrie's got to be able to stand up and say i was in the room i

Carter: saw what was bad about the corrupt you know about this this contract i see the lack of morals i see the lack of integrity that's why i left i

Carter: have the

Carter: the chits i have the receipts that's what he needs to be imply if he's going to be the most successful uh disruptor that he possibly can be so

Zain: so carter here we go over

Zain: under in our lightning round no no i

Carter: i

Zain: i

Carter: i gotta ask you

Zain: you a question

Carter: question no

Zain: no

Carter: no you okay oh

Zain: oh

Carter: oh

Zain: oh

Carter: oh yeah you've got a question for it put it put it in the over under

Zain: put it put it in the over under lightning

Carter: lightning round

Zain: round no no it's before the

Carter: no no it's before the hell it's a bigger question than that zane okay

Zain: okay fine well i'm just trying to give you their tight 45 but

Zain: but i guess neither of us are shannon so we've got all we got all the time in

Carter: we got all the time in the world fucking

Zain: fucking lay it on me like i've

Carter: i've had two phone calls during this two i mean i feel pathetic right now like that's just nothing um

Zain: that's just nothing

Carter: um here's my question for you what is the state of the race in the the calgary municipal elections in 2025 what's your read on it i'm i'm obviously biased but you're not biased you're just sitting there some guy hanging out you're watching this watching things unfold it's

Zain: watching things unfold it's

Zain: it's a really good question and i don't know what it's june it's june so i

Zain: think this will come down to what i call a classic realtor election which

Zain: is classic

Carter: classic realtor election real

Carter: real which is just like real to real realtor

Zain: which is just like real to real realtor realtor with the with the real don't forget the copyright and the trademark there yeah they're not happy when you don't use that carter um if

Carter: real don't forget

Carter: yeah they're

Zain: man everything else has been everything else has been overshadowing municipal or the anticipation of municipal for a long time we were talking about the overlap of federal on municipal yeah provincial referendum on municipal provincial referendum potentially tagged on election provincially over municipal we just talked about that right so municipal is always kind of like the last thing to kind of get anyone's attention we're

Carter: provincial

Zain: we're in june and i feel like the punch through that is required has not happened yet for some of the candidates that need to punch through. Name names. Like candidates you may be working with, Carter. Just some of those people. Chicken shit. That being said, that being said, I, like you, agree that six weeks is a long time. I think this retail cycle is going to be really important for these candidates. They're going to have to come out of this retail cycle between July,

Carter: to punch through.

Carter: Chicken shit. That

Zain: July, Stampede, Folk Fest. Is that August still? Mid-August? Yeah,

Carter: Yeah, it's early August. Okay, so let's

Zain: Okay, so let's use that five-week period, which I believe is like like five to six weeks, your number, that's

Zain: that's going to be huge for these people to define themselves, to understand what they stand for. I go back to my point of ambition and what these folks need to describe, because if that doesn't happen, it becomes a Jyoti Gondek, Jeremy Farkas re-election, where for the political insiders, there's been a bit of evolution

Zain: in terms of what people feel about those two characters, which I think is interesting. But for the secondary and the tertiary class of Calgary citizens, it's a rematch again where conservatism is in favor and he holds the mantle there. That's my on the sidelines, minimal attention thought

Zain: process. I don't, you are obviously more, you

Zain: you understand this more intimately. You probably know the dynamics between first, second, third, what percentage it takes to win. I also believe this will be one of those elections where the winner may have 29 to 36% in terms of what they get in terms of vote share to win, because there'll be a few people who can carve out 12 to 15 percent homes. And

Zain: maybe they were thinking that they could carve out 30 to 40 percent homes, but their ceiling is 12 to 15, either as a byproduct of performance, name recognition,

SPEAKER_00: whatever, runway.

Zain: runway.

SPEAKER_00: runway. They just didn't start enough.

Zain: But I think those dynamics probably end up with a mayoral candidate that does not have a strong mandate. Regardless, mayoral candidate that ends up with 28 percent to 35 percent is not a 50 percent plus one winner, winner, which means that the election is one thing, but the mandate on the back end is even more fascinating to me around what they feel like they've got permission to do.

Carter: Interesting. Very

Carter: Very interesting. So

Carter: who wins?

Zain: Right now, all things equal, election tomorrow, Farkas.

Carter: Do you think he's actually been able to walk away from his... He has his progressive creds now, and he has his conservative creds. Which ones are actual real?

Zain: ones are

Zain: I think this might play either strategically or lucky for him. I'm not sure I want to decide just yet because i haven't seen it where with the political class enough people have forgiven him and there isn't an exciting there isn't an exciting progressive that's punching through just yet on paper so

Zain: so they go with farkas because it's like as he fundamentally changed i'm willing to take a shot

Zain: he's also a machine at

Zain: at the one-on-one game at

Zain: at

Zain: at the keeping in touch with everyone game which i think has helped a lot of the political organizing class feel more comfortable with farkas and then i think he takes advantage of the fact that many of the people in the second and third ring still feel like he's a conservative or if if if branded with a bit more negativity conservative enough that's how i look at it i don't have the numbers you have i don't have any of the poll but it becomes a realtor election the second and third ring no jeremy farkas and i the one name i haven't mentioned is is our sitting mayor jody gondek who i've got a lot of time and respect for but it seems like you know from at least some of the polling is going to be competitive enough but but might not have the same chance that she did last time.

Zain: But that's where I kind of see this race going. It's like, I'm not saying it's Farkas for the taking, but if those things align where enough progressives have forgiven him on the organizing side and the political side, and enough people still view him as conservative enough, and

Zain: we're in a moment of more conservatism or at least more moderation than some of the things that Gondek sold during the last sort of months of her race around progressive hopes, right? If I'm being honest, like you sold progressive hopes, Carter. And I bought, I was one of those customers who said, said, yup, like, relatively last minute, if this is the choice, I'm going with Gondek. This is easy.

Zain: If

Zain: that doesn't exist to the level, the Farkas might be able to do a bit of, like, capture in that way that could be quite fascinating. Well,

Carter: Well, make sure we go to whyiszainwrong.ca Okay. Are you going to

Zain: Okay. Are you going to give a full explanation? I shouldn't allow you... Give us a full explanation as to...

Carter: shouldn't allow you... Give us a full explanation as to... You

Zain: You know I have respect for, and a ton of admiration for the person you're working with. Why is Zane wrong? And tell

Carter: for the person you're working with. Why is Zane wrong? And tell us why he's wrong, right or wrong. on.

Carter: Tell us why you agree with Zane or why you don't, and keep in mind- Here's

Zain: keep in mind- Here's a genuine question I have for you. Here's

Carter: Here's

Zain: Here's a genuine question I have for you. Why are none of these candidates, outside of maybe Sharp,

Zain: punching with a fervor and intensity on Daniel Smith as you did with Gondek and Jason Kenney?

Zain: That's one element of it that I'm actually struggling with just as an ... This is pure observer, right? So you might tell me, oh, it's just Zane, you're wrong. Here's 10 things that everyone's been doing, and then it becomes a question of why none of it's penetrating, which

Zain: which is a different tactical question that a lot of folks are struggling with. But

Zain: why does no one seem to be hitting Daniel Smith on the daily about everything? If there's some softness around who's pushing back, why are some of these Merrill candidates, the Farkases and the Bryans and the Gondeks, where

Zain: where are we on hitting Daniel Smith on an hourly basis, let alone daily? It's

Carter: on hitting

Carter: It's hard to hit a shadow.

Carter: She moves so quickly. she moves from one thing to the next thing that you threw a punch at and then the next thing that that thing is kind of the ndp

Zain: is kind of the ndp answer isn't it it's

Carter: it's gone it's it's like punching a wisp right

Carter: right like why was it not why was it not like that for with kenny because kenny had to stand on the on the covid stuff he

Zain: because kenny had to

Zain: he was just it was the one issue that he would not back out on everyone couldn't back away from it he was

Carter: couldn't back away from it he was defined on it and and it gave us a much stronger attack how much of

Zain: how much of an assist do you think you feel like you got from the opposition ndp in the gondek race that that that they had defined Kenny in such a way, or helped define him in such a way? None.

Carter: None.

Carter: None? None.

Carter: Tell me why. Because the NDP were nowhere near us. We were, like, I was in absolute shock that the NDP didn't at least come to steal our people,

Zain: like, I was

Carter: to steal the

Zain: the

Carter: the

Zain: the structure. I don't mean from a ground war organizational perspective. I mean from an air war definition. We

Carter: definition. We defined him way more on our own.

Zain: You think so? Absolutely.

Carter: Absolutely.

Zain: So you feel like this is a struggle that everyone is having right now, is how to hit Danielle Smith from a municipal angle? I haven't thrown a punch

Carter: municipal angle? I haven't thrown a punch at a ghost. Have

Zain: Have you tried?

Carter: haven't really tried that hard right now, but it's

Carter: in part because we can't see the punch.

Zain: Fair. I see what you're saying about that.

Zain: You have to find the angle. If you can't see it, you can't throw it. There's simultaneously too much and not enough because none of it's been bundled is how I look at it.

Carter: If you can't see it, you can't throw it.

Carter: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. It's

Zain: like a lot of raw ingredients. Carter, over under our lightning round. Oh, lightning round. Good. Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's just one question here, which is, first of all, a reminder. LastMealAtSwiss.ca that's where you can go to give us your actuarially sound actuarially sound analysis of how many people have had their last meal.

Carter: round. Oh, lightning round. Good. Yeah,

Carter: actuarially sound actuarially sound

Zain: We'll use today as a stopper. June 23rd, 2025 up until today. How many people in this country have had their last meal at Swiss Chalet? Carter, I'm going to let you work this out on

Zain: on Mike here. Give it to us from top of the dome. Stephen Carter

Zain: What's

Carter: What's the number? Swiss Chalet, I remember coming to Calgary in the 80s. We're

Zain: Chalet, I

Zain: We're talking Canada-wide, sorry. I want to be very clear.

Carter: I want to be very

Carter: But I'm only familiar with the Calgary.

Zain: Okay, so you're going to just use Calgary as a template. I like where you're going.

Carter: Calgary has approximately been 10% of the population. Let's just say, no, not, yeah, 5

Carter: 5% of the population. No, 2% of the population. Doesn't matter.

Carter: Math's not my strong suit.

Carter: So here's the number.

Zain: Okay, what's the number?

Carter: 67.

Zain: 67 people.

Carter: Mm-hmm.

Zain: You don't need to see the work.

Zain: good. I don't mind 67. 67 feels right. I could hear... I'm going to give you a range.

Carter: Well, no, no, no. You got to pick a fucking number. You

Carter: You can't do a range. I'm

Zain: I'm not very good at math either, but I think it's between 9 and 5,000.

Carter: That is not wrong. Pick a number.

Zain: 68.

Carter: Dick! Is this... Is this... You're going to... No,

Zain: going to... No, no, no. It's fine. I feel like this is a poor strategy on my part, but I feel like you're going exactly where I was going to go. Give us your number. LastMeLetSwiss.ca. That's a wrap on episode 1876 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Belcher. With me, as always, Stephen Carter and no one else because we weren't organized. And we'll see you next time. Running

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