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SPEAKER_03: I'm Terri Hart, and this is The Heart of It All, a podcast about navigating the messy, beautiful, complicated realities of caregiving for our aging loved ones. Every week, I sit down with experts, caregivers, and families to talk honestly about what it means to support an aging parent. If you're a caregiver or you want to know what to expect when you inevitably become one, you're in the right place. the heart of it all that's heart spelled h-a-r-t new episodes every week wherever you get your podcasts acast
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SPEAKER_00: the world famous annalise and carter show featuring
SPEAKER_00: annalise clingbeil and steven carter
Annalise: welcome to the world famous steven carter and annalise clingbeil show is that what we're calling this steven carter i'll tell
Carter: i'll tell you before it was the annalise clingbeil and steven carter show but you just you just changed it around just like that i've put you you
Annalise: just like that i've put you you put me
Carter: you put me in the first billing and yourself in the second billing which is
Annalise: and yourself in
SPEAKER_04: in
Annalise: is just the two of us tonight carter what's going on well
Carter: well as you know we're elected yeah cory
Annalise: know we're elected yeah
Annalise: yeah
Carter: cory got elected and zane's very ill oh very ill deathbed is what i'm told okay
Annalise: oh very ill deathbed
Annalise: okay
Carter: okay
Annalise: okay okay
Carter: okay
Annalise: okay
Annalise: okay
Carter: okay and
Annalise: and cory's in rome coming home from rome where he's home He's home from Rome.
Carter: he's home He's home from
Carter: He's home from Rome, as
Carter: as they say. And he flew
Annalise: as they say.
Carter: flew in today, and he
Carter: he had Wi-Fi on the Porter Air flight. So did you talk the whole time? We texted. We texted back and forth. I was cleaning the basement, looking for distraction, and he provided it. Perfect. Yeah, it was pretty great. You
Annalise: did you talk the whole time? We
Annalise: Perfect. Yeah,
Annalise: Yeah, it was pretty great. You had a good weekend, then. You didn't go outside. We could just do, Carter, we could do an hour on going outside right now. We don't have Zane and Corey to hold us back. To stop us.
Carter: right now. We don't have Zane
Carter: us back. To stop us. We could talk about biking.
Annalise: could talk about biking. We could talk about hiking.
Carter: hiking. Oh,
Carter: I know, but you went camping this weekend. I did go camping
Annalise: I did go camping this weekend. It was rainy, but that's what normally happens on May Long Weekend. It
Carter: It is. It's the rainiest weekend of the year.
Carter: Yeah.
Annalise: Yeah. Did
Carter: Did you bike this weekend? No, because it was raining. So
Carter: we were supposed to go to Blairmore and do some riding down in Blairmore. They've got a couple of new downhill tracks that are spectacular, but
SPEAKER_01: we were supposed
Carter: but we weren't able to get out there. How
Annalise: How do you choose which one of your 12 bikes you take when you go biking?
Carter: uh taking the e-bikes now that makes it a lot easier yeah yeah because uh last year we had to cut the average distance of our of our travels uh by about uh 25 so that's
Annalise: yeah yeah
Annalise: a problem we're getting old
Carter: problem we're getting old we're getting old so
Annalise: so when we when we go again this year you taking the e-bike or what are you taking well
Annalise: well
Carter: well i thought i'd give you the e-bike and i would do the uh i'd do the analog oh
Annalise: would do the
Annalise: oh
Carter: oh
Annalise: oh wow
Carter: wow yeah
Annalise: yeah Okay, you've
Annalise: you've got some big plans. I've
Carter: you've got some
Carter: I've got big plans for you. I'm going to take you to some really great spots. You're going to be loving it.
Annalise: going to be loving it.
Annalise: Great.
Carter: Because last time we did a really easy trail.
Annalise: Yeah.
Carter: And this time we're going to do another pretty easy trail, but it's going to be longer.
Annalise: We did an easy trail, and I would not say I enjoyed it, but I'm willing to give it a second try. You
Carter: You know what? You pretend like you didn't enjoy it, but I think you did. I
Annalise: I like the uphills. To be honest, I like the uphills. I did not love the downhills.
Carter: like the uphills.
Carter: Well, we'll go up and then we'll go up further.
Annalise: Perfect. So you'll love that. My kind of biking. Okay. Do you want to talk about politics or are we just going to talk about outdoor things?
Carter: Perfect. So you'll love that. My
Carter: kind of biking.
Carter: Well, I was good with just outdoors. But if you want to bring in some politics, I mean, it is a political show. It's running on the strategist's airwaves. We should probably at least pay homage to the strategists. We
Annalise: We probably should. Corey is probably going to listen and get mad if we do not talk about politics. Listen,
Carter: probably should. Corey is probably going
Carter: Listen, he's just going to be happy we recorded. He will be.
Annalise: Listen, he's just going
Annalise: will be. He was doubtful that this would happen. Yeah,
Carter: was doubtful
Carter: Yeah, he threatened physical violence against me if I didn't record. That's what he said.
Annalise: Yeah, he threatened physical violence against
Annalise: That's what he said. Oh, that's why. That's why we're doing this.
Carter: that's why.
Carter: why we're
Carter: That's
Carter: That's why we're doing this. That's why. There
Carter: There was physical violence. He
Annalise: There was physical violence. He knew. Corey knew he would get elected and then things would fall apart because Corey was the glue that held the strategists together.
Carter: I always thought I was the glue, but I think we all know who the weak link is. Who paid the bills.
Annalise: Who paid the bills. who bought the domains who posted episodes who
Annalise: who did the technology who's gonna you're gonna be in charge of the books i
Carter: i apparently am going to be in charge of the books this is very disconcerting to me not my strength but
Annalise: be in charge
Annalise: my strength but it's gonna be fine it'll be fine really well okay you haven't been paid
Carter: but it's gonna be fine it'll be fine really
Carter: you haven't been paid since the new year since i don't think i've been paid since last year
Annalise: don't think i've been paid since last year since 2024 i think we
Carter: 2024 i think we still owe you money from 24 don't we i
Annalise: i think you do yeah this
Carter: yeah this
Annalise: this is but
Carter: but
Annalise: but we've got money for benches and um and websites yeah
Carter: yeah absolutely so you know what yeah and i'm told we have a lot of money in the account so perfect i'm gonna i'm gonna start dishing it out you're gonna be like she's rolling in it bonus dollar dollar bills
Annalise: so
Annalise: you
SPEAKER_01: you know what
Annalise: what yeah
SPEAKER_01: yeah
Annalise: yeah and
SPEAKER_01: in
Annalise: in it bonus
Annalise: bills perfect
Carter: perfect
Annalise: perfect uh
Annalise: uh stephen carter let's talk let's talk about some politics i want to talk about alberta it's you and i we don't have zane and uh and
Annalise: cory here and there's a lot going on in alberta right now you've been in alberta a long time so i want to pick your brain about some things i'm going to start by reading you some headlines from the past couple weeks headlines we
Carter: past couple weeks
Carter: we
Annalise: we used to do headlines segments
Carter: to do headlines segments called headlines you
Annalise: you
Carter: you did
Annalise: did
Carter: did oh yeah how did it work what
Annalise: how did it work what did you do well
Carter: well we just read headlines that's
Annalise: that's that was the segment yeah
Carter: yeah
Carter: hilarious then
Annalise: hilarious
Annalise: then what i
Carter: i
Annalise: i
Carter: don't remember to
Carter: to be honest i just knew No, we did a segment called Headlines. It's a red headline.
Annalise: Headlines. It's a red headline. Let's do a segment called Headlines. Yeah, the segment's called Headlines. So I'm going to read you some headlines. This is just the past couple of weeks. This is what's going on in Alberta. And then we're going to dig into it.
Carter: headline. Let's do a segment called Headlines. Yeah, the segment's
Annalise: So, Alberta Premier Daniel Smith defends breaking up health minister role into four portfolios. Alberta Premier Daniel Smith defends promise of a potential referendum on separation. Premier Daniel Smith demands for Ottawa has Canadians divided. Report.
SPEAKER_04: Report.
Annalise: Report.
SPEAKER_04: Report. porch
Annalise: porch danielle smith fumes over mark carney's cabinet choices quote innuendo and slander alberta legislature erupts after questions about premier smith's husband quote
Annalise: quote playing with fire former premier or former alberta premier jason kenney weighs in on separation talk um
Annalise: um here's one that was just published this evening former chief of staff to alberta premier lived in in home owned by Sam Morace's sister. A lot going on in Alberta. Carter, how do you, like, you live here. How do you explain everything that is happening in our province for those that don't have the capacity to keep up or maybe don't live here or maybe don't know where to start caring? What is happening in Alberta these days?
Carter: Well, everything's on fire. Everything's on fire. And, you know, you have some normal fires. fires that you could predict, that would be the health care fire, right? The health care file has been a shitshow under Danielle Smith. You know, doctors are saying that the system is coming apart at the seams. And I will tell you that the system is very big and very difficult to manage. It's not designed to succeed, really. It's designed to fail on many levels. But the doctors and nurses and other staff that work at the hospitals and in the health care system hold it together. But now that they've got four ministers, I'm not sure how they're going to continue to hold it together. But that's a relatively normal state of affairs for Alberta. Ralph Klein tried to do it with his infamous Bill 13. You know, we tried to reinvent health care in 2011, 2012. 12 um we
Carter: being in the allison redford government uh ed stelmack struggled with health care um you know even jason kenney who suffered through the uh the pandemic was was struggling with health care so health care is a normal uh a normal problem but
Carter: but then we have two what is
Annalise: what is not a normal problem well
Carter: well we have two abnormal problems the first one is corruption um you know know, people would say that the PCs were corrupt, but you could never prove that the PCs were corrupt. You never had, for example, a chief of staff living in a $1.5 million home owned by someone that was getting billions of dollars in contracts from the government.
Carter: That wouldn't have happened because we're too smart for that. Too smart to get caught doing something that that fucking stupid. You know, and I don't know. I mean, charges haven't been laid. There's been no official word. And, you know, Marshall Smith has threatened lawsuits against those who have defamed him. I think there is a lawsuit.
Annalise: think there is a lawsuit. Yeah,
Carter: Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, so I think there is a lawsuit against the Globe and Mail. CB against the Globe,
Annalise: against the Globe and Mail. CB against the Globe,
Annalise: Globe,
Annalise: Globe, yeah. Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, so, you
Carter: you know, I certainly don't want to be the next person to get a lawsuit. lawsuit so let me just say cory's not
Annalise: so let me just say cory's not here to keep cory's not here to stop me from being
Carter: cory's not here to stop me from being yeah yeah
Annalise: yeah but
Carter: but i will say this corruption kickback scheme that has been um outlined in the global mail over the last couple of months is not a normal problem it is a problem that is is is created by hubris and uh this kind of sense that well they were corrupt so we can be corrupt too i think that uh you know we have a lot more to find out as to the reality of this situation who else was involved how much did they know um you know everybody what i have said from the beginning is that everybody who showed up in one of those private boxes is going to be as guilty as the people who took any any like marshall smith allegedly taking this um this home to live in uh that is a spectacularly stupid thing to do um and i think that they will you know everybody who is uh everybody's going to be painted with the same brush uh with the most corrupt person whoever that may be and i don't think it's premier smith for the record for the record i think it was not you know i don't think it's danielle who was corrupt um i i think though that this corruption option uh goes deep and it then ties into you know was was daniel smith's husband um setting up meetings for rail transport you know that
Annalise: this corruption kickback
Carter: was shouted down in the house in the in the legislature i'd love to see what happens with that as we as we move forward um and then there's the the the headlines that are self-imposed that are self-created the the the the nightmare that was was created by Smith deciding that she was going to make it easier to hold a separation referendum. We had just passed the referendum legislation in her first term,
Carter: term, if you will.
Carter: That
Carter: That referendum legislation made it challenging to get a referendum up off the ground. It's not challenging now. It's still challenging to get 100, I
Carter: think it's 177,000 signatures, Annalise. Correct me if I'm wrong. They're going
Annalise: Correct me if I'm wrong. They're going to get 600,000, Carter. No big deal. yeah
Carter: big deal. yeah
Annalise: yeah
Carter: well they won't yeah
Annalise: well they
Carter: yeah they're
Annalise: yeah they're gonna get they're gonna get way more yeah
Carter: yeah well anybody who can get 188 000 signatures is organized enough to win the next election so i think that people need to understand what's at stake the organization levels required to get that many people to put their signature on a piece of paper let's go back to uh the recall gondek movement where they got well ultimately every single signature was thrown out how
Annalise: every
SPEAKER_01: every
Annalise: every single signature was thrown out
Annalise: many signatures signatures did they get though well
Carter: well technically zero but i think it was in the 60 000 range um
Carter: so obviously that's just one city so one could make the you know the extrapolation that if you can get 60 000 signatures in calgary 60 000 signatures in edmonton and then 60 000 signatures rural uh our one-third one-third one-third kind of province that we are um then you could make 180 000 but it's
Annalise: signatures rural
Carter: it's just not that easy it's just not that easy so
Carter: so i
Annalise: i just want to several different things here right we've got the separation we've got the health care stuff we've got um the cabinet shuffle that just happened on friday lots lots going on in terms of the scandal
Annalise: i don't know if some people different names for it but in terms of scandal i just want to read you a jared wesley um i think this is a blue sky that was sent to me him trying to condense that into like a sentence where people understand because there's a lot going on. This has been several months. So he says, Premier
Annalise: Premier Smith's former chief of staff allegedly pressured health officials to cut half a billion dollars in contracts to
Annalise: to a businessman whose sister was his landlord, and who bought them all luxury NHL tickets, and they fired the person ready to reveal it.
Annalise: Do you think it's like, is that in terms of the communications on this and getting people to care when there's so much going on? Is that as simple as it is?
Carter: That's as simple as it is. I mean, I think that we've quoted Wesley before when we've been talking about how to actually communicate about this scandal. And he's made it so much simpler than anyone has. The simplicity is what we need. And, you
Carter: you know, I was talking to some friends in the NDP this weekend, and I think that's what the NDP needs to do is make it simple.
Carter: They've made it, you
Carter: you know, corrupt care. They've made it about the care element instead of the corruption element. Do they need a flow
Annalise: Do they need a flow chart? Do they need like something visual, like a flow chart that shows who is linked to who and what's going on? A little
Carter: little infographic would be fantastic, right? Basically saying here's the person who got got the money,
Carter: number one. So here's the person who got the money. Number two, here are the people who are with that person in the boxes. Here's the guy who was getting the house, who was renting the house or staying in the house. I'm not sure what the rental agreement was. But now that you're starting to see this, a really simple infographic, because it really is that simple. We gave this guy hundreds
Carter: of millions of dollars or whatever the number was. And this is also the guy behind the the Tylenol scandal, right? The children's Tylenol scandal where he got $75 million. We used to talk about
Annalise: $75 million. We used to talk about that Tylenol all the time on this podcast. I know, because you were furious.
Carter: know, because you were furious.
Carter: Furious, I tell you.
Annalise: Yeah, because it just never ended. It was like every week or two, there was some new bad thing about that Tylenol, including the fact that you couldn't even give it to children during a Tylenol shortage.
Carter: Yeah, it was
SPEAKER_01: was pretty great.
SPEAKER_01: Pretty great. Miles
Carter: Miles and miles. But we have the same guy, right?
Annalise: miles. But
Carter: right? Right. The same guy has is involved in the same in a totally different set of scandals. So
Annalise: scandals. So
Annalise: So what like you talk,
Carter: talk,
Annalise: talk, talk to me about this, because you've been part of governments that have fallen from the scandal. Like is is the bar of what is a scandal just different nowadays? Like why? There's so many different pieces of this.
Annalise: Why are we still just getting stories? And these people are still in in their roles.
Carter: It's infinitely more difficult to survive a $30,000 scandal than it is to survive a $300 million scandal. Because
Annalise: Because people don't understand? They
Carter: people don't
Carter: They don't understand the scope of the money and the money itself. They've never been involved in a deal like that. They don't understand how it would even relate to their lives. We can try and make it relate to their lives, but they're not paying enough attention. But when something's $30,000, like the no meat committee that we dealt with in 2011. Tell us about that. The no-meet committee was essentially, back in the day, you got compensated for attending committee meetings as part of your MLA salary.
Carter: So when you would sit on a number of different committees, those committees were part of your pay. And
Carter: And one of the committees was, I
Carter: I think it was on electoral reform or something along those lines, election readiness, something like that. And it didn't meet. It didn't meet for 18 months, 24 months. and everybody who was on the committee still got paid so everybody got a thousand dollars extra a month some people wound up with 20 25 30 thousand dollars in ill-gotten gains um so we had you know we
Annalise: 30
Carter: we had to get everybody to refund the money and it still didn't matter even though people gave the money back the
Carter: the the
Carter: the the fact that you were getting money for some for nothing thirty
Carter: thousand dollars, $15,000, $25,000, whatever the amount was, you were getting money for nothing. So
Carter: So what happened? Who lost their job?
Annalise: happened?
Carter: Well, ultimately, MLA like Arno Dirksen lost his job. We lost a lot of seats in the election. It was part of why we almost lost in 2012. We went from a high of almost 80, anticipating up to 80 seats in the legislature to uh dropping down to almost losing uh and danielle smith had she not brought the lake of fire forward for us uh would have won that election um so so
SPEAKER_01: forward for us
Annalise: us
Annalise: so you think you think the dollar figure is like a key piece of what makes it resonate time
Carter: you think
Carter: time and again if you make something like if
Carter: if you were given a free house to to live in with your two colleagues um that
Carter: that would would be something that could be career-ending. Let's also look at Alison Redford, right? A $36,000 plane ride was ultimately her undoing.
SPEAKER_01: A $36
Carter: People understand how much money $36,000 is. They
Carter: They see it. They can feel it. Was that
Annalise: feel it. Was that also, I mean, that was the last thing, but was there other, like the Sky Palace and the other things leading up to it?
Carter: Yeah, I mean, taking care of someone's lodging is extremely difficult. When Allison was even staying at the Fairmont McDonald, the Hotel McDonald, that was very difficult to manage because people can't stay at the Fairmont McDonald. Hell, we even did a retreat at the Jasper Park Lodge in the shoulder season. It cost us no more than being at any other hotel with a conference room. but
Carter: but uh because it was seen to be a luxury um
Carter: um you
Carter: know destination i don't know if you've ever been to the jasper park lodge in the shoulder season season tell me about it carter there's nothing there there's nothing to do there's no one staying at the hotel and it cost us i think it was 90 bucks or 100 bucks a night um but people people knew that it was a luxury location and they uh there
Carter: there There was a little mini uprising. So
Carter: So do you
Annalise: do you
Annalise: you think
Carter: think
Annalise: think
Annalise: think the housing in this case, there's Global Mail, Carrie Tate, who's had scoop after scoop on stuff in Alberta, I think worth shouting out to Carrie Tate. But do you think her latest tonight about the lodging, about the housing, is that going to be different than any of the recent scoops that she's had? I
Carter: think so. I think it's easy to understand. unfortunately it's happened or fortunately for the for the daniel smith government it's to a chief of staff who's no longer with the government so
SPEAKER_01: so
Carter: so um if the chief of staff was still in the office there'd be calls for resignation the because for him being fired but because he's already left it's uh it's difficult to put you know a real political value on this um i do think that it's going to be make it it's going to make it harder because there's no fucking way that Danielle Smith didn't know what her chief of staff's living arrangements were. Like, it's just impossible to imagine.
Carter: Why is
Annalise: Why is that? Because you've been in that role and you're just so intertwined. I mean, you're practically living
Carter: I mean, you're practically living together. You know, you're constantly, constantly working together, taking telephone calls, doing video conferences from home. These things are all happening all at once. And it's not like she's going to not notice where her chief of staff is living.
Annalise: You know, you're constantly,
Carter: So if she
Annalise: So if she says, if when asked the next time she faces me, she says, oh, I didn't know you're saying that's bullshit. That
Carter: That would be a blatant lie. That would be a blatant lie. One that would be relatively easy to disprove, I would suspect. I would suspect more than one time, you know, Marshall was in the car when he got dropped off at his house. And so at that point, you know, the premier would go, wow, that's a nice house. what
Annalise: blatant
Carter: are you doing in that house right
Carter: right plus you you know yeah
Carter: i mean uh chances are if there was a rental agreement um the province would be paying for it a
SPEAKER_05: cast powers the world's best podcasts here's
SPEAKER_05: the show that we recommend i'm
SPEAKER_03: terry hart and this is the heart of it all a podcast about navigating the messy beautiful complicated realities of caregiving for our aging loved ones every week i sit down with experts caregivers and families to talk honestly about what it means to support an aging parent if you're a caregiver or you want to know what to expect when you inevitably become one you're in the right place the heart of it all that's heart spelled h-a-r-t new episodes every week wherever you get your podcasts acast
SPEAKER_04: helps creators launch grow and monetize their podcasts everywhere acast.com so
Annalise: okay
Annalise: okay so
Carter: so
Annalise: so
Carter: so
Annalise: you think you think it's you think it's going to be different this time you think i do i think this is going to resonate i
Carter: think i do i think this is going to resonate i think this was big i
Carter: think uh you know even cory put it in the text and was like oh this is big this is big and i was like cory stop teasing me stop teasing me if you're gonna take political stances get on the fucking podcast you're
Carter: you're oh this but this is big so you know just to tease out there for everybody that cory is still following the news and could still be on this podcast if he fucking wanted to
Annalise: That's a good tease. Hopefully, if he's listening right now, what's your message to him, Carter?
Carter: There's a new show. We did the Klingbeil and Carter first time. There's a new show, Ministry of Podcasts, that we are looking to do with Corey Hogan.
Carter: People want Corey back.
Annalise: People want Corey back. It's been like, what, two weeks and they miss him already?
SPEAKER_01: The
Carter: The
SPEAKER_01: The
Carter: The audience does. Although
SPEAKER_01: Although
Carter: Although
SPEAKER_01: Although
Carter: Although he's in the Discord more than ever right now. He
Annalise: in the Discord more
Annalise: He is. It is. That's a plug for people to give the, what is it, $6 a month? $6 a month to be on
Carter: a plug for
Carter: $6 a month to be on Patreon, and then you get the Discord. People on Discord say they don't even pay for the podcast anymore. They're paying for the Discord. The community.
Annalise: People on Discord say they don't even
Annalise: The community.
Carter: Group chats
Annalise: Group chats are all about right now.
Carter: now. Yeah, it's crazy. It's crazy.
Annalise: now. Yeah, it's crazy.
Annalise: Okay, so you think it's going to be different. At the same time...
Carter: time... Do you think it's going to be different?
Annalise: No, I
Annalise: don't. Oh, my God. No,
SPEAKER_00: No,
Carter: No, I don't. Scandal.
Annalise: I don't. Scandal. I
SPEAKER_00: I
Annalise: I don't think so, because there's been so many pieces and so many things and it's just not resonating. And I think the media market in Alberta is horrendous right now. And it's like scoop after scoop from Carrie Tate. But it's not getting the follow that it would have 15 years ago. Like think about 10 years ago. Think about when you were dealing with Redford. Oh, my God. It wasn't just one headline in a national newspaper. It was like... You
Carter: God. It wasn't
Carter: You just listed off 15 headlines. lines yeah
Annalise: but but there's so much information and it's not so so the scoop that the globe has the herald and the cbc and ctv and the others don't and maybe they follow it because some of the stuff they've been following but it's a totally different media market than it was a decade ago when you were with redford how long ago was that 15 years ago uh
Carter: yeah it's coming up on well it's 14 right now yeah yeah
Annalise: i don't do
Annalise: you not like think about how many reporters were covering the ledge 15 years ago well
Carter: well and even then we were down right
Carter: even then we were down the number of reporters that we would
Carter: would have seen but yeah we had i
Carter: i think we had a good 12
Carter: or 14 that were covering the ledge which
Annalise: which is which is insane like it's it's nothing you had like when i was at i started at the herald in 2008 and
Carter: it's
SPEAKER_03: it's
Annalise: and then left for the final time in now 2018 i was there on and off um kind of internship when i was in school couldn't keep a job that's
Carter: um
Carter: couldn't keep a job that's what i heard And then when
Annalise: heard And then when
Annalise: when I finally left, but
Annalise: but even then in that decade, how much it just shrunk and shrunk and shrunk. Like they don't, the Herald doesn't even have a ledge reporter now, right? They have one in Edmonton and CP. So I just think that the, you don't have the bodies. We, in our media training, we show the, who
Annalise: is the health minister who was eating the cookie? Stephen Duckett, was that his name? Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, he was the deputy minister of health. Right. And so he
Annalise: Right. And so he was the head of AHS. Yeah, head of AHS. Sorry, not minister, head of AHS. But his like media scrumming him and he's going, I'm eating a cookie. I'm eating a cookie. I'm eating a cookie.
Carter: he was the head of AHS. Yeah, head of
Carter: minister,
Annalise: There's lots of media following him. That doesn't that wouldn't happen nowadays. He wouldn't have that many people and they wouldn't have the capacity to wait for him for his meeting to finish, to follow him to the next building. Like it's just wildly different. So
Carter: So is that the age of scandal is over? you can get away
Annalise: away with
Carter: with murder?
Annalise: Well, I'm asking you. No,
Carter: No,
Annalise: No, no, I'm asking you because I already answered.
Carter: No, no, I'm asking you because I already answered. I think this is big. What I'm asking you is, is the age of scandal over in your mind?
Annalise: What I'm asking you
Annalise: I think the age of scandal has changed. You see it in Ontario too with a lot of the Doug Ford stuff. Like just things that I think if you had the same level of scandal and the same media that you did 10, 15 years ago, it
Annalise: it would be night and day difference.
Carter: Wow. It's no question it would be night and day difference. Do
Annalise: you disagree with me? No,
Carter: No, I think that it would be totally different.
Carter: But I just want, you know, it is, it is, it
Carter: is just, I
Carter: just don't believe that the age of scandal is over.
Annalise: I don't think it's over. I think it's changed. Well,
Carter: we're
Carter: we're going to find out, aren't we? Don't
Annalise: going to find out, aren't we? Don't put words in my mouth, Stephen Carter.
Annalise: But I just did.
Carter: just did.
Annalise: Yeah.
Annalise: Okay. Separation. Well, well, all this is going on. We're also talking about gathering signatures so that Alberta, Alberta can separate. right um the separation stuff granted in this like media market that is is small the separation stuff is getting a lot of oxygen has that has that surprised you like people are making the point that separation has always been this
Annalise: this fringe um in in the back of people's minds things saying in alberta but it's out in the mainstream right now is
Carter: it though is it because when i talk to regular human beings no one's to no one wants to actually do it right no one wants to do it
Annalise: no one wants to do it but But people are talking about it. Yeah, they're absolutely
Carter: absolutely talking about it. They're talking about it as though these fucking crazy fuckers aren't going to let this happen, are they?
Carter: And this is actually another giant problem for Daniel Smith. But this one's all self-imposed. She has created this problem because
SPEAKER_01: And
SPEAKER_04: And
SPEAKER_01: And this
SPEAKER_04: this
SPEAKER_01: this
Carter: because she thinks it's an opportunity to win something over from Mark Carney.
Annalise: Do you think she thinks it's an opportunity or do you think she's trying to keep her party from separating? Well,
Carter: I mean, I saw the Republican Party of Alberta has listed, I think, 18 of the MLAs that are serving the UCP that are pro-separation. I don't know where they got that information. I hope that someone follows up and asks these 18 MLAs if they are actually pro-separation or if words have been put in their mouth by a party that, you know, barely even exists. And I don't know who's behind it, but this Republican Party of Alberta, we've
Carter: we've had the Western Canada Concept Party. We've had these talks of Alberta separation before. I think we elected one person in 82, is my recollection, who proposed that separation actually be followed. followed um i don't think that when we've when we've brought in a million and a half people from eastern canada we're going to actually see that number go up in the recent in the in the coming days i think that it's gotten a lot of attention but i think it's got a lot of attention in the in a negative sense of can you believe how fucking stupid these people are
Annalise: you you did say what a week ago when did we record last a while ago that you were quite you were quite worried about this Are you still worried?
Carter: still worried? Still very worried. I'm worried about the economy. I'm worried about the negative consequences long term. I'm told that there are conventions that are trying to book space in Calgary that are saying, no, we're not going to do it because we're not sure you're going to be part of Canada in four or five years. Because that's how long the window is for conventions, right? I don't believe that we're going to separate. But I do believe that we're going to have economic consequences and other political consequences that could reverberate for decades from even just entertaining the construct.
Annalise: about
SPEAKER_01: window is
SPEAKER_00: is
Annalise: So what strategy wise, what needs to happen? You think someone within the UCP needs to, like, grow a backbone and and stand up and speak out against it or like what what what needs to happen? Yeah.
Carter: Yeah. I mean, so what are there, 40 some odd MLAs in the UCP caucus? It fluctuates depending on who's being kicked in and who's kicked out or who's not. I think that those that aren't in the 18 that want to separate need to say, I'm pro-Canada. I'm staying in Canada. This is going to be a referendum question. And if it comes down to it, I'm going to campaign for Alberta to stay as part of Canada. I want to see cabinet ministers do that. I want to see backbenchers do that. I want to see people who who are
Annalise: It fluctuates
SPEAKER_01: fluctuates
Annalise: fluctuates
SPEAKER_01: fluctuates
Carter: affiliated with these governments, who, you know, the political operatives who have worked with them. I want them to say that they want Alberta to stay as part of Canada, because right now, Danielle Smith is owning the microphone. And, you know, who else I want to say Alberta should stay a part of Canada. Every single fucking person who sees Danielle Smith at an event this year, this year at Stampede needs to walk up to her and say, what the fuck are you doing with separation?
Annalise: But who's doing that right now? Jason Kenney's doing it, but is anyone else doing it?
Carter: but is anyone else doing it? I'm going to do it. You're going to do it, right? You're not afraid. You're going to do it. Yeah,
Annalise: Yeah, yeah. But in terms of like in these conservative circles, who other? I mean, they don't like Jason Kenney. Monty Solberg's talking
Carter: Yeah, yeah. But in
Carter: don't like Jason Kenney. Monty Solberg's talking about putting together a no committee. Thomas Lukaszek put forward a question to be considered for referendum that Alberta should stay apart.
Carter: uh
Carter: uh of of canada um you
Carter: know i think that there's a lot of people past and present in in conservative circles that are uh not going to let this stand a
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Annalise: So the Alberta, what's it called? Alberta Prosperity Project is what it's called. So they, like this is an example. Release their referendum question. They're looking for support from 600,000 Albertans before they go ahead with the Citizen Initiative petition. The wording of the question is,
SPEAKER_04: what it's
Annalise: do you agree that the province shall become a sovereign country and cease to be a province of Canada?
Annalise: That got like mainstream coverage. Which should it have? It's a mainstream question.
Carter: It's a mainstream question. It's a mainstream question. Anytime Quebec has threatened to separate and taken it to referendum, and it almost has passed. This is a, you
Carter: know, I don't think it's going to pass, but I think that the separation threat is just as real from these people. It's not like these people are political pawns. They are, in some cases, you know, useful idiots for Danielle Smith. but they're not inconsequential
Annalise: from these
Carter: inconsequential in the overall scheme of things but
Annalise: but they they also show up like there was the they gathered they had one of their whatever they want to call it meeting conference whatever in calgary on a monday night a thousand people in that room like you know you've you've done events you do political events how
SPEAKER_03: you know you've
Annalise: how hard is it to get a thousand people in a room in calgary on a monday night it's
Carter: it's pretty hard and it really depends on who the audience is and if the audience I mean, it depends about your give-a-fuck factor. Let's be honest. There is a large group of people who have a significant give-a-fuck factor who want to see Alberta torn apart.
Carter: And they think that they're saving us. They're actually destroying us.
Annalise: What do you think of that? There's talk of with the three upcoming by-elections and the fact that there's a by-election in what's it called? Old Stidsbury, Three Hills, whatever the order
Carter: the order
Annalise: order
Annalise: order of that is, where
Carter: where
Annalise: where
Annalise: where the speaker's seat was.
Annalise: By-election there.
Annalise: And that is the one place in all of Alberta that
Annalise: that has had someone from a separatist party representing them before. It was like in 1982 or something. thing.
Annalise: Do you think in these by-elections that are coming up, provincial by-elections, we're going to start to see organization and a push from the separatist movement?
Carter: If Danielle Smith has a brain in her head, she will call that by-election at the exact same time as she calls Ellerslie and Strathcona in Edmonton. All three of those by-elections need to be called as soon as humanly possible, ideally in the next seven days, because you do not want to give additional time for the separatists to organize because they could win Three
SPEAKER_01: Strathcona in Edmonton.
Carter: Hills, Old Stidsbury.
Annalise: Talk to me about that. So you do think that's possible that they can win? I do. I think that in a by
Carter: Talk to me about that.
Carter: win? I do. I think that in a by-election, we're going to have lower turnout anyways. I think that is the capital of separation in Alberta. It's rural. My father's from there, so I have connection to it. I think that it very easily could go separatist with only 10,000, 15,000 people voting. That, to me, seems entirely probable.
Carter: I'm not sure how many people voted in Old Three Hills,
Carter: Didsbury, in the last election, but I'm going to bet that it was below what we would have seen in any Calgary riding.
Annalise: Are you looking it up right now? I'm looking it up right now, yeah. I think it's going to take you minutes,
Carter: now? I'm looking it up right now, yeah. I think it's going to
Annalise: not seconds, minutes. Yeah,
Carter: not seconds,
Carter: Yeah, 24,000 people.
Annalise: 24,000 people.
Carter: In the last by-election. In the last election. In the by-election, one could anticipate that being somewhere in the neighborhood of 10 or 14.
Annalise: In the last by-election. In the
Annalise: the
Annalise: So you think possible?
Annalise: Well,
Carter: Well, I mean, if you're running a strong NDP candidate, if you're running a UCP candidate and you're running a Republican candidate, the threshold for victory could be 35%. 35
Carter: % of 14,000 voters is only what? 4
Carter: 4,800 voters or something like that.
Annalise: Making me nervous, Carter. So what's, like, strategy-wise, you're the NDP. Let's say the by-elections are going to be called. And they have to call Edmonton Strathcona, like, quite soon, do they not? Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, they do. And I think it's by the end of May that they have to do it. And I think that Nathan Cooper officially resigns his seat this week.
Annalise: And I think that Nathan Cooper officially
Annalise: So if you're the NDP, what is your strategy going into these by-elections?
Carter: Run the best possible candidates that I can in Edmonton-Hollersley and Edmonton-Strathcona. One would be, of course, Nahed Nenji, and the other one would be whoever the other candidate is. I think that they're named a candidate. I just can't remember who it is.
Carter: Those two candidates need to run and win, but I wouldn't even necessarily run the strongest campaign I could in old Three Hills-Dinsbury. I would kind of fall back and allow the UCP to dominate.
Annalise: And just focus on the other two. Yeah.
Carter: Yeah. You're
Carter: not going to win Old Three Hills, Didsbury, even if 35% is all you need. The NDP got exactly 18% in the last election, 4,500 votes. You need every single person to come back out and vote for you again. In a by-election. If you think you're going to win the by-election. What
Annalise: come back out
Annalise: In a by-election. If you think you're
Annalise: What about the, speaking of by-elections, what about the federal one in Battle River, Crowfoot, where Pierre Polyev is running? Do
Annalise: Do you think that the fact that he's running in an Alberta riding, the
Annalise: the separation talk is going to become even more of a national issue than it already is? In terms of it feels like the national headlines
Annalise: headlines on it are kind of like, look at kooky Alberta. Well,
Carter: I mean, not only that, there's an overlap, right? There's an overlap in some of the spaces of the ridings. The two girls, yeah. Yeah.
Annalise: The
SPEAKER_01: The two girls,
Annalise: girls,
Annalise: Yeah.
Carter: Yeah. So, you know, there's not a huge overlap. It's not like they are the same riding by any stretch of the imagination. But there is some overlap. And I would think
Carter: think that this is an opportunity for Pierre Polyev to fight for Canada, stand for Canada. If he wants to say that there are some legitimate grievances, that's fine. But the way to solve it is not to threaten to leave. That's the way he should be tackling it. Do you think he will?
Annalise: Do you think he will?
Carter: I don't know. I'm not even sure that we're going to see him in Battle River.
Carter: You know, I don't think that he
Carter: he needs to show up. So if you don't need to show up, you know, what's the point? He's going to win that one by a gajillion points. You
Carter: know, it's going to be fairly significant, I think.
Annalise: So what are your, I know you love to do predictions, what are your predictions of what happens with this, what happens with what's going on in Alberta in the coming months? We're going into summer and then we're going to municipal elections.
Annalise: What's, I think, people's capacity for caring in summer drops? As we all know, like, what's your predictions of what the next few months look like? If
Annalise: If
Carter: If the premier's smart, she'll hold this by elections before the end of June. So by June, let's see.
Annalise: End
Carter: End
Annalise: End of June?
Carter: Yeah.
Carter: June the, let
Carter: let me pick a day here. Oh, you're really predicting. I'm going to pick a day that she's going to have the elections. It's going to be 1, 2, 3, 4. It's going to be June the 2nd. No,
Annalise: here. Oh, you're really predicting. I'm going to pick a day
SPEAKER_01: that
Carter: that can't be right. No. I miscalculated. I did that wrong. I counted incorrectly. 1, 2, 3, 4. June the 16th.
SPEAKER_01: No. I miscalculated. I
Annalise: June the 16th. The day after Father's Day,
Carter: day after Father's Day, by election, in all three writings. Okay.
Annalise: Okay. And then what's your next prediction? You're really getting detailed
Carter: what's your next prediction?
Carter: detailed here, very specific. I think that Ellerslie and Strathcona
Carter: Strathcona will go to the NDP. I think that there's a better than zero chance that the Separatists win in Old
Carter: Old Sudbury Three Hills. And then I
SPEAKER_03: And then I
Carter: think that everybody loses their shit. And the most, anybody associated with Danielle Smith is going to have a really hard time getting
Carter: elected. You think?
Annalise: elected. You think?
Annalise: She's the one who
Carter: She's the one who invited them in, and they're going to take the opportunity to sign petitions. I think that the referendum petitions will be signed, sealed, and delivered before
Carter: before the end of 2025.
Annalise: And then keep, you're on a roll, Carter. Keep predicting. That's all I got. That's all I got. You want the municipal election predictions? predictions are
Carter: That's all I got. That's all I got. You
Carter: want the municipal election predictions? predictions are
Carter: are
Annalise: are
Carter: are
Annalise: are
Carter: are
Carter: we see i know you want it's gonna be it's gonna be a big night for stephen carter i'll tell you that
Carter: stephen carter's gonna be standing up and going oh yeah i know i know
Annalise: and going oh yeah i know i know you want to you
Annalise: you what's your what's your track record on predictions uh
Carter: you what's your
Annalise: i do poorly as long as as
Carter: poorly as long as as long as i don't predict federal elections in the united states very poorly i do very well there's a misunderstanding about my predictions right
Annalise: elections in the
Annalise: there's
Annalise: right what
Carter: what
Annalise: what is it clear the records right now court adhered every fucking
Carter: adhered every fucking time i make a prediction some asshole drops into the the uh the recording of me making the jeb bush prediction and that prediction needs to do again jeb
SPEAKER_01: needs to
SPEAKER_01: jeb bush needs to survive this primary and compete in a general jeb bush is not surviving this primary he's
Carter: he's totally surviving this primary mark it down on your calendar okay steven
SPEAKER_01: steven carter so hold on jeb bush is the guy yeah
Carter: so hold on jeb
Carter: that prediction turned out to be false that was all your other all my other Other predictions. I've
Annalise: all
SPEAKER_01: all your
Annalise: your
SPEAKER_01: your
Annalise: all my other Other predictions.
Carter: I've never heard a negative prediction except for that one ever played after my predictions.
Annalise: predictions.
Annalise: predictions.
Carter: predictions.
Carter: predictions.
Annalise: You're wild. Okay, so you think Separation Party wins and then things are going to get nasty. Do you think snap election? Lots of people are talking about a soon election.
Carter: Do you think
SPEAKER_03: think snap election?
Carter: election?
SPEAKER_03: Lots
Carter: I think that they're looking at that in the fall of 2026 instead of the fall of 2027. Okay. I
Carter: don't think it's an app election. I mean, keep in mind that with the munis happening in October of 2025, there's not a lot of land left to actually host and have an election. So 2026 makes the most sense to me, spring or fall. So
Annalise: So you mentioned Stampede Circuit earlier and telling people they should go out to Daniel Smith. Do you have any other kind of advice or strategy for what is like a very important time in Calgary for networking and for politics? Well,
Carter: Well, I think that there's a case to be made for launching another referendum that is not related to the separation question. I think that there's a really strong case for that. Like what type of question?
Annalise: what type
Carter: I don't know. Let's say... Like just an
Annalise: an issue that gets people out? Yeah.
Carter: Yeah. Reinvestment in health care or something along those lines. And you run and you try and get your 180,000 signatures on that. It has to be something big, though. So I don't know if anything's big enough except for separation to get the signatures. And
Annalise: what's your thinking behind why you just want to get it? Because then you're
Carter: to get it? Because then you're going to have to get both groups of people out. Yeah. And you really have to instill a sense of purpose for them. Plus,
Carter: you could fuck the government and fucking your buddies a lot of fun.
Annalise: Yeah.
Annalise: So, Stampede, do you want people to be talking? I want people at Stampede to walk right up
Carter: I want people at Stampede to walk right up to the premier and say, what the hell are you doing? Okay. Why are you playing with this fire? I was thinking of, because last year we did a big set of rounds with Brian Thiessen. And I did a million Stampede events. A million. And every one of them, I think I saw Daniel Smith, except
SPEAKER_01: A million. And every
SPEAKER_03: every
SPEAKER_03: one of
SPEAKER_01: of them, I think I saw
SPEAKER_03: except
SPEAKER_01: except
Carter: except
Carter: except the NDP breakfast. But, you know, the truth
Carter: of the matter is that no one confronted her. No one asked her the hard question. I think that some people need to stand up to her and say, what
Carter: what are you doing with separation? What are you doing?
Carter: And if you're going to let her into your event, then you've got to at least ask the question. At
Annalise: At what point do you think we get to that point, though, where, I mean, she's the premier. Like, at what point do you get to where your
Annalise: your chambers of commerce or your people who have these big breakfasts and stuff are like, no, we don't, she's, we don't want her here. I
Carter: don't think that she's going to be persona non grata. I think that that's a step too far. But I do think that the people will stand up to her. I mean, you'll stand up to her, right? You'll go up to her and say, what the hell are you doing?
Annalise: You'll go up
Annalise: Yeah, you will too, right? I
Carter: will. When you see her at
Annalise: will. When you see her at those one million events that you... I will for sure,
Carter: you... I will for sure, but everybody expects it of me. Yeah. Well, they expect it of you.
Annalise: sure, but everybody expects
Carter: Yeah. You
Carter: don't sound that enthused. You don't sound... Well, I don't...
Annalise: sound... Well, I don't... To be honest, I don't go to a lot of Stampede events, Carter. I get invited to them, and I try not to go.
Carter: Well, traditionally, the second weekend is my weekend off. We go bike riding, but... Traditionally,
Annalise: Traditionally, but
Carter: but not this year, because you've got some municipal things
Annalise: but not this year, because you've got some municipal things to your
Annalise: fingertips. i might
Carter: i might
Carter: might be there the whole time yeah that's a long run in your
Annalise: yeah that's a long run in your cowboy hat for 14 days i used it when when i was um a journalist we had to we could not book off time during stampede it was like a you had to be there and
Carter: 14 days i
Carter: used it when
Annalise: and then when i was in government obviously had to be there and now that i don't have those jobs i can do things like go camping during stampede and it's wonderful wonderful it
Carter: is wonderful to go camping you're this is uh this is a great little start and uh you know book ending on talking about the outdoors yeah it's really well done annalise you you cracked it totally
Annalise: you're this is
Annalise: yeah it's really well done annalise
Annalise: cracked it totally did that on purpose because we're already at 43 minutes we said we were going to do a tight 45 yeah
Annalise: yeah
Carter: yeah so uh so
Annalise: so uh so do you have do you have we're not going to do a lightning round because this isn't the strategist this is the uh what did we call it carter and annalise show
Annalise: Is there anything else you want to put on the table before we call it the end? I
Carter: I liked calling it the Annalise and Carter Show, but you've really, you know, renamed it. And I appreciate that. Carter
Annalise: I appreciate that. Carter and Annalise Show.
Annalise: First
Carter: First time
Annalise: time ever.
Carter: It was pretty good, I think. I think it was great, actually. Perfect.
Annalise: I think it was great, actually.
Annalise: Perfect. I think it was great.
Carter: I think it was great.
Annalise: That's a wrap. We're going to end it there. Oh, yeah. Okay. Oh, are we still going? How do we end it?
Carter: We're going to end it there. Oh,
Carter: yeah. Okay.
Annalise: It's our first episode. I did the intro. You do the outro.
Carter: Thanks for joining us on the Annalise and Carter Show. Tune in next week to see if Zane Velji returns. Ready
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