Annalise: Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1868. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Stephen Carter and Zain Velji. Carter,
Annalise: you're in Edmonton. I'm
Carter: I'm in Edmonton, yes. You didn't know there was a hockey
Annalise: Edmonton, yes. You didn't know there was a hockey game.
Carter: I'm told there's a hockey game. I was just told by you guys seconds ago. Tell us where you're staying. How close are
Annalise: where you're staying. How close are you to where
Annalise: the game is being? I am four blocks away
Carter: the game is being? I am four blocks away from where the game is. You should know
Zain: know that
Carter: that there's
Annalise: there's a hockey game. Do you have windows in your hotel room? I do. I
Annalise: I
Carter: I do. I can see the strip club across the street. Oh,
Carter: I can see the arena. Are
Annalise: I can see the arena.
Zain: arena.
Zain: Are you at the coast? I can actually see
Carter: at the coast? I can actually see
SPEAKER_00: see the arena. And
Carter: And you didn't know. Are you at the coast or the Delta?
SPEAKER_00: you
Zain: you
SPEAKER_00: you didn't
Zain: didn't know. Are you at the coast or the Delta? Where are you at? I'm
Carter: I'm at the coast. How do you know this? How do you know? How do you know which hotels are next to the strip clubs? They've spent a lot of time at the hotel across from the strip clubs.
Zain: do you know this? How do you know? How
Annalise: How
Zain: How do you know
Annalise: know which hotels are next to the strip clubs? They've spent
Zain: spent
Annalise: spent a
Zain: a lot of
Annalise: of time at the hotel across from the strip
Zain: strip
Annalise: strip clubs.
Zain: clubs.
Annalise: clubs.
Zain: There's only one.
Annalise: one.
Zain: And it's the coast. And if you're staying at the coast, how poor is your client?
Carter: No, it's great. This is fantastic. It's good.
Zain: fantastic. It's good.
Carter: There's
Zain: There's a bidet. Not a lot of money. Have you talked about
Carter: There's a bidet. Not
Carter: lot of money. Have you talked about the bidet on the podcast? Don't, Carter. It's fantastic. Don't talk
Zain: Carter. It's fantastic. Don't talk about it. The coast is bought by a Japanese company. but he was in it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's
Carter: was in it. Yeah,
SPEAKER_00: Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there's bidets everywhere. APA. Fantastic.
Zain: APA. Fantastic.
Annalise: Fantastic.
Carter: I
Carter: I actually just got out of the toilet. We got here about an hour and a half ago. That's
Annalise: That's why he had no idea there was a hockey game occurring this evening, Zane. He's just spent the last hour and a half on the bidet.
Carter: Yeah, it's pretty exciting. Don't think that's how you're supposed to use it. I may be using it incorrectly. Pretty exciting.
Annalise: exciting.
Annalise: Guys, anything else you want to tell us about Edmonton, Carter, before we jump into it?
Carter: Well, I can see the arena. Let me give you an update.
Carter: There is an arena.
Carter: That's all I can tell you. Zane, has the
Annalise: tell you. Zane, has the
Annalise: the game started?
Zain: The game has started. Carter, do you think the arena is where they're going to be processing everyone's Alberta passports once we separate? Do
Carter: Do you feel like the arena will be used? The arena will be used for that. Like we were using for
Zain: will be used for that. Like we were using for mass vaccinations. The arena will be used where we actually get the 5G chip removed and
Carter: The
Zain: and then get our new passports? Do you think that's what's going to happen? Well, keeping our
Annalise: and then get
Annalise: Do you think that's what's going to happen? Well, keeping our Canada passport as well. I'm pretty excited about
Carter: I'm pretty excited about this whole separation thing.
Annalise: Oh, you've gone from worry to excitement?
Carter: gone from worry to excitement?
Carter: No, I'm excited about it. Now I've decided that I'm going to ruin Danielle's day. That's what I've decided.
Annalise: How? What are you doing?
Carter: I don't know yet, but I'm going to figure it out. And with good people, we'll ruin her day.
Annalise: Going to go spend some time on that bidet and figure out your strategy. Well,
Carter: Well, I was thinking about it for quite some time. I had 90 minutes in there.
Annalise: Guys, let's jump
Annalise: jump into it. Enough toilet talk. We are going to talk about Carney's cabinet to start off. Tuesday, Prime Minister Mark Carney's cabinet will be unveiled.
Annalise: A source within the prime minister's office has told more than one media outlet today, Monday, that the post-election cabinet will include two different layers. So there will be a core group that will have fewer than 30 ministers and then 10 additional junior ministers who will be called secretaries of state. I
Annalise: don't want to do an hour of speculating who's in, who's out, what role our friend Corey Hogan will get, but I do think it's worth chatting about cabinets, the strategy that goes into them, how
Annalise: how Mark Carney can differentiate himself from Trudeau right now.
Annalise: So let's jump into it. Carter, Corey Hogan, what role is he going to get? I
Carter: don't
Carter: know what role anybody's going to get. I've been purposely staying away from the cabinet speculation. It is not something that I've been jumping into. You mean you're
Zain: You mean you're not good at predictions? Staying
Carter: Staying away from predictions. Here's why. What's changed, Stephen Carter?
Annalise: from predictions. Here's why. What's changed, Stephen Carter?
Carter: don't do a great job on predictions. But
Carter: I am intrigued to see how this all unfolds, because I think that the the cabinet needs to have it needs to look different. I think when you were doing your setup, Annalise, you were talking about how does the prime minister differentiate himself from Prime Minister Trudeau? And the answer is new blood. There has to be new blood in the cabinet. And that new blood can come from so many different places. There were a lot of new people who were running, whether it's Quebec and Ontario will have some new faces for sure. Atlantic Canada will have some new faces. And then there's great new faces to choose from in Western Canada as well. So I don't think that it's necessarily about, you
Carter: know, who gets which role. I think it's about how many new faces there are. And that's those same sources were saying that about 50 percent of the cabinet is going to be new blood. Is that enough? And I think that that's exactly the right.
Annalise: I
Carter: Well, I don't know that you can do it with more
Carter: than that. You know, if there's 30 people in the cabinet, I'm not even sure where the line is drawn. Fewer than 30 people in the cabinet and put 10 more people in cabinet is very confusing to me. 40, 30 plus 10 is 40.
Annalise: 30 plus 10 is 40.
Carter: Yeah, it's starting to sound a lot like Justin Trudeau's 40-person cabinet. But the cabinet itself needs to have a lot of fresh blood. And I think if we're just looking at the 30, then that means that 15 people are new blood, and that would mean probably at least 10 or 12 bodies lying in the ditch that Mark Carney has thrown
Annalise: the cabinet
Carter: thrown away. Some big names, I would expect.
Annalise: Zane, what does Carter's math mean for Corey Hogan? We'll
Zain: see what it means for Corey. We'll see what it means for a lot of people who've been, you know,
Zain: touted as individuals with the right skill set, with the right pedigree, with the right resume to be able to put themselves in cabinet. in it um i for one um if i was choosing between one of the strategists annalise uh obviously i would choose you uh but if uh if we if we didn't care about gender parity then of course i'd be choosing uh stephen carter he brings uh he brings the the type of white man energy that i don't think any of the white men that mark carney's gonna be choosing would bring yeah um that's the level of of new blood that stephen carter would bring to the fold um
Carter: but if uh if we if we didn't care about
Annalise: um so
Zain: so who the hell knows what it means for hogan what's
Annalise: so who the hell knows what
Annalise: hogan what's what's a good number like there's been a lot of focus on the number and people is a great number
Zain: and people is a great number people
Annalise: people saying that it's you know that trudeau had this huge cabinet i think it's worth remembering when um trudeau's first cabinet 2015 31 which i believe included himself so 30 and himself um
Carter: trudeau's
Annalise: um when he left he had 40 carney's
Zain: when
Annalise: quick pre-election cabinet had 24 which there was some criticism there what what what is the right number and what do you amazing of this like some people are are senior ministers some are junior i don't know what terminology we want to use but of this new structure not
Carter: but
Zain: but of this
Carter: this
Zain: not
Annalise: not new unless i'm
Zain: not new unless i'm less convinced that that the raw number of new faces matters i think what matters is a subset of that which is the new faces in senior roles um a new finance minister a new natural resources minister a new foreign affairs minister, a new minister of revenue, a minister that is leading potentially a new file for intergovernmental and trade, for example.
Zain: Change like that, I think, matters more than just the breadth of change. And so what I'm looking for tomorrow is new faces that are taking on senior roles, because I think then it's the confidence that Carney is attributing to those And by extension, signaling to the rest of the country that I haven't just brought in a thin generational change, like a thin line of generational change. Junior ministers are ultimately going to be able to take top job jobs.
Zain: Six years from now, I'm actually bringing in a brand new or like a relatively reset front bench. And I think that's the message that many people are looking for. I don't think he gets away with just 50% off the top. I think that's a nice teaser metric, a nice leak metric for the PMO. What he should be held to account for, in my opinion, is
Zain: the amount of senior people that are new in these senior ministries. So not even within the 30, but the subset of the 30, the top 10. The top five of those people are new. OK, he's playing a different type of ballgame. That's my take. Carter,
Carter: Carter, I do. I do like this idea of having a junior set of ministers and a senior set of ministers was something that I toyed with in in Alberta. We never got around to it because I was there for 15 or 20 minutes. But what we were looking at is putting in place a I would have loved to have had one minister who is responsible for health care with two or three different junior ministers working with them. one minister responsible for education, two or three junior ministers working with them, one person responsible for finance, et cetera, et cetera. And you'd only really have about six or eight senior ministers. And those senior ministers would then form kind of an operations committee that would be able to break down some of the silos that exist in government. You know, one of the reasons we created a human services super ministry with Hancock was that we wanted to break down the privacy rules, right? Like people who are in human services are often in different realms of human services all at the same time. But you couldn't necessarily get communication to go across those silos of government departments because of privacy concerns. But if you made it all one department, then all the information could flow theoretically much smoother. And I think that the problem was you create the super ministry, and then it's too big and too wieldy for one person to be the primary minister of. So if Mark Carney is doing that, where he's creating super ministries with junior ministers who are then supportive of that, or regionally specifically supportive of that, then I can wrap my head around it, because I think that that'll be a really good thing. This sounds
Annalise: because
Annalise: This sounds different, though, because what you're saying is like a small core group and and then several junior ministers. This sounds more like 30 in a core, fewer than 30 in a core group, and then 10 junior ministers. Yeah, I'll
Zain: than 30 in
Zain: ministers. Yeah,
Zain: I'll
Zain: I'll just, can I jump in, Carter, with my thought? Yeah, go ahead, do it. I mean, I think Annalisa's observation here is a very good one, right? Usually you'd expect it to go the other way around if this is the model you're following. 10 at the senior level, and then a shit ton at the more junior level. And I think we should read it that way. Even if they want to present it to us says 30 and then 10 let's find the top 10 like yeah they're like we already know what the top 10 are going to be they might be mapped slightly differently and he might use different words for what they mean but there's
Annalise: Carter, with my thought? Yeah, go ahead, do it. I mean, I
Zain: there's going to be 10 so
Zain: so like who are the 10 like let's find the 10 let's not get confused with their mapping figure out what those are and
Zain: and and really the way i look at it carter is like this is a way to catch talent it's just like you don't have to assign them a department department you don't have to sign them frankly in a dm or adm or any real resources these these ministers of state but you can maximize on their talent you can kind of you know maximize on the fact that you want them around but you don't really know where you want to put them they kind of have this utility player element to them even if they may be given a portfolio
Zain: and you kind of let them test the ground for whether they uh advance themselves into into to the ministerial portfolio. Let's also not forget, there's another thing that we don't know but are assuming, which is that this 30 is paired with this 10 that might have an additional 30 or 40 parliamentary secretaries behind it. So this could be of a 170, give it 168 to 171. We'll find it in a couple of days. Anywhere between there, that many seats of a caucus might have 80 people, 70 to 80 people holding positions of which 40 of them will be called honorable is that
Annalise: So this could be of
Annalise: that too many carter yes
Zain: that too many carter
Carter: yes
Zain: yes thanks
Carter: saint yeah
Zain: yeah
Carter: yeah
Zain: yeah i'll get out of the way is
Carter: yeah i'll get out of the way is it too many no it's not too many uh and and this is my friend robert hawks who talked me into this uh i started off very much being a believer in small cabinets and he turned me around on it the way he turned me around on it is that that idle hands are the make the devil's work whatever the however the saying goes and these idle hands in government are particularly nasty so you want to be able to share out as many titles as you as you possibly can and make as many people work for you as possibly as you possibly can there is no way in 170 168 person caucus that you can give everybody a job but if you can give a solid almost majority of people a job and don't forget you got you're talking about parliamentary secretaries but we're not as you know you there's still uh whips there's still uh positions in the the party there's still um caucus chairs there's you know there there are so many jobs that are going to be handed out that by the end of it you're going to be looking at 120 out of 160 people with a special job oh don't forget committee chairs um well
Annalise: then what about the
Carter: what about the 20 people who don't get a job they all wind up on committees so they wind up with multiple committee positions so everybody gets something in the government and that's that is enabling uh keep people from from bitching and moaning behind your back because you give them all something and you have expectations of them. You think this, Carter? I didn't, but my friend Robert Hawks is smarter than me and he turned me around. Thankfully, Stephen
Annalise: they wind up
Zain: up with multiple
Annalise: multiple
SPEAKER_00: You think this, Carter? I
SPEAKER_00: didn't,
Zain: didn't, but
SPEAKER_00: but
Zain: but
Zain: me
Zain: Thankfully, Stephen Carter has Zane Velgey who's smarter than him. Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, Zane Jumpin'. And he's able to
Zain: he's able to also provide Carter some advice. You know, Carter, what's worse than people with titles? People with titles that have no purposeful engagement with their role. And then they have roles and assumed power And no directionality, no real power. And they're even more frustrated than sitting on the sidelines, bitching and moaning. And I feel like unless this is a PMO and a group that's ready to purposefully engage, define roles, responsibilities, hold people account, put them on an advancement track, because you know what the people that are not as part of the core 10 want to be? They want to be part of the core 10. end. They're going to want a track for someone in the PMO to say, how do I become the next whatever minister, they're gonna have to deal with their bitching, they're gonna have to deal with their moaning, they're gonna have to deal with their career projection questions. This
Annalise: to
Zain: This is a lot of work. So you might be right on the surface, but there's also a ton of opportunity for this to go wrong, in which you have a lot of people who have titles, but no meaningful power, no meaningful full engagement and still can't even be themselves because they have to fit into this narrow box of towing the line. And we've seen what happens with a bunch of people that feel like they're A players and have A plus style egos and feel like they should be part of the top 10, but are instead a part of the top 79 to 85 feel about their political careers. You're also cooking with fire in that way. Everybody gets
Carter: way. Everybody gets a job. I'm Oprah fucking Winfrey in this situation. Everybody gets a job. I'm one for everyone.
Annalise: Everybody gets
Annalise: job. I'm one for everyone. No, Zane, I'm glad you brought that up because that's what I was going to ask you, Carter, is under the system that you seem to think is a good idea, how do promotions work and people starting in this junior role and then working towards something bigger and better? Everybody sees
Carter: bigger and better? Everybody sees the next rung on the ladder, but everybody, if you've ever met anybody in caucus, everybody in caucus thinks that they deserve a role in cabinet. That is why they ran. They ran because they are the best to serve not only their constituency, but the people, the good people of Canada. There is 170 people that were expecting telephone calls yesterday. 170 people all booked their flights on Air Canada. They were all going to be in cabinet, damn it. And they're not all going to be in cabinet. Some of them are going to be disappointed, but you can ease that disappointment by giving them a chair position. George Chahal was chair of the National Natural Resources Committee. That made him feel better. It made him feel better because he wasn't a cabinet minister. But you know what? He was the next rung below or two rungs below. one. Carter, your strategy is just
Annalise: below. one. Carter, your strategy is just give everyone a job. Is this what I'm hearing?
Annalise: Give everyone a title. You get a job.
Carter: everyone a title. You get a job.
Carter: I mean, look at what we did with Zane. We gave Zane jobs. We're like, you can host the podcast. And then we're like, you can become a strategist. It's no problem. We gave him jobs. And he saw the next rung on the ladder. And he moved up those rungs on the ladder. He got a promotion. He's all over fucking TV. He's on all the TV channels. He's on all the radio stations.
Annalise: We're like, you
SPEAKER_00: on
Annalise: on the ladder. He got a promotion. He's all over fucking
SPEAKER_00: fucking
Zain: That part is true. He's
Carter: He's on all the podcasts. All because what? what because one day we took petty on him and we gave him we said you know what you can host this and he did and he's hosted his way into and those other gigs pay real money too they pay real money none of this strategy
Zain: because what?
Zain: strategy kind of like this podcast i have no real power and i'm deeply frustrated
Annalise: he keeps showing up steven carter okay he does keep showing the paycheck
Zain: he keeps showing
Zain: showing the paycheck i guess i guess that's true he'd give everyone a top up am i actually called the honorable am i do i get an honorable title now
Annalise: am i actually called the honorable
Annalise: i get an honorable
Annalise: now you got a title promoted we call
Zain: you got a title promoted we call you for the show the honorable zane that's good that's gonna surprise a lot of people title in
Carter: call
Carter: call
Annalise: call
Carter: call
Annalise: call you
Carter: you for the show the
Annalise: that's
Annalise: that's
Annalise: terms of the titles what about the actual like ministries the portfolios and and and carney using it as a way to differentiate himself from trudeau i think there was criticism of trudeau of maybe having like some
Annalise: some flowery language or grouping some things together like how are you looking carter for carney to play the actual portfolios? I
Carter: I mean, I'd really kind of like to almost step back to Brian Mulrooney style of titles, right? Like, tell us exactly what it is that they do. And don't flower it up. Don't make it into something particularly special.
Carter: I'd love to see that, you know, Minister of External Affair or External Relations, or I'm just trying to think of some different ones. I mean, the Minister of Finance is classic, right? You're going to have certain classic ones, Justice, Finance, Yeah,
Annalise: Yeah, but what about all the others? Transportation, infrastructure.
Carter: what about all the others? Transportation, infrastructure.
Carter: I would like to see them cleaned up, make them really make, you know, this is what your job is. If you're the minister for Western Canada economic diversification, then you're the minister of economic diversification. That's it. You know, it doesn't require special
Carter: long titles that are doubly
Carter: long in French.
Annalise: Zane, do people need long titles?
Zain: I don't think they need long titles. I think shorter titles actually encompass a lot more than long titles. Longer titles almost seem like you're trying to carve out things that are not explicitly said, right? When you say heritage and then you include languages and then culture and television, you're like, wait, what's not? You know, I'm just making television up. You see what I'm trying to say, though, right? It makes the person ask what's not part of it. I thought everything was part of the one word. And it used to be that way, that the one word would be all encompassing. Yeah, minister of sport was enough. You'd meet the minister and you'd be like, oh, shit, I didn't realize you were my minister. But I guess that makes sense. This is a roundabout to heritage. And you kind of want those one-word, two-word, all-encompassing portfolios, especially with the top 10 that you want to assign some power to, right? And some of those positions have retained not
Carter: It
Carter: Yeah, minister of sport was enough. You'd
Zain: not just the nomenclature but the history of those expansive – the expansive oversight. Supersight, justice,
Zain: finance,
Zain: transport, right? Transport, like, I don't think between the three of us, we could actually create an all-encompassing list of everything that the Minister of Transport is responsible for. It's a big one. We'll
Carter: responsible for. It's a big one. We'll
Zain: We'll
Carter: We'll
Zain: We'll forget a
Carter: a
Zain: a big thing. At some point, we'll be like, oh, fuck, yeah, everything in the sky, right? Or we'll be like, oh, yeah, everything, you know, like, we'll forget. All real, we'll forget something. So, like, there is something to be said about shorter, pithier, more meaningful titles. I'm also curious myself personally in this acute sort of moment with Carney, if the Secretary of State will lean more towards the specific skill sets that these junior ministers bring to the table and or areas of acute pain or pressure. So how much do they double up on the economic files or particular types of files that need conditions? So like a subsector of housing on the funding track, a subsector of finance, a subsector of part of his build plan. and how much are they trying to address and signal priority and how much are they trying to take advantage of someone's unique skill set that might be occupying the role. The interesting thing with the junior ministries and the state ministries, especially how they've been used in the UK and other commonwealths, is they often are not assigned either a full department or any department at all. They're relatively agile and they can often speak to the skill set of the person holding that particular office at that particular time. Because when you blow it up, There's really nothing you're blowing up other than a role and a couple of staff. There's no ministry or there's no department behind it. And so you can have these sort of utility players who speak to a particular moment in time or skill set that they bring. I'm going to be looking for that tomorrow, being like, oh, that makes sense for that person as
Carter: a
Carter: forget. All real,
SPEAKER_00: particular types
Carter: so you can
Carter: as a reaction to some of the things we see in the TV
Zain: TV procession tomorrow morning.
Carter: Carter, are you watching tomorrow morning?
Carter: I have a breakfast meeting that I drove to Edmonton for. Oh, no. So,
Zain: So, yes. Yes.
Carter: So every once in a while, I have to get paid for doing stuff. Just skip
Zain: skip
Annalise: skip
Zain: skip
Zain: skip it,
Carter: skip it,
Annalise: it, man. Cancel it right now. Go to the website. Hire Carter to speak. That's your plug, Carter. Exactly. What's the website? Book the bidet for
Carter: it, man. Cancel it right now. Go to the website. Hire
Zain: Hire
Carter: Carter.
Zain: Carter. Exactly. What's the website? Book the bidet for 90. Book the bidet for a nice 90 at 7.30 tomorrow. And
Carter: And
Zain: And just fire up
Carter: up that iPad, man. You know, I wondered why it was more expensive tonight to be able to get the bidet.
Annalise: Guys, another one for you. Mandate letters. Mandate letters. Talk to me about, I think we saw with Trudeau, this detailed mandate letters that were released publicly.
Annalise: Yeah. What what do you think should be a good what is a good strategy for for Prime Minister Carney when it comes to mandate letters like follow that same thing or I
Carter: Yeah. What
Annalise: don't like should he be totally detailing it or should he be like leaving it up to people to shape it or if he's got like no flowery language and he's got these really specific topics just run with it. You're in charge of this. This is your job. Talk to me, Carter. You've been involved in mandate letters, I'm sure, in your roles as chiefs of staff. What's a good mandate letter strategy?
Zain: sure,
Carter: in your
Zain: your
Carter: A great mandate letter strategy is to have a very clear mandate letter with three or four items that need to be achieved in the next year or two. And those mandates are clear and understandable. Unfortunately, in federal politics, I think it's a little bit harder sometimes. times like we were picking on the department you know the the minister of transport so i'll just continue to pick on the minister of transport i mean do we even know what the issues in transportation are going to be um do we know what issues might might pop up um i i like the minute i like the mandate letter because it tells the minister what they have free reign on but i'm afraid of the mandate letter because anything not included in that mandate letter is often seen as is off-limits, and I would much prefer that the mandate letter says, these are our three priorities, but you go ahead and be the minister of this department. You should be the actual minister of the department instead of the prime minister's office being the de facto minister of the department. And I think Zane was kind of alluding to that a little bit earlier in the conversation. When the prime minister's office is the ministry of everything, everything then these mandate letters become much less meaningful because really each one of them could be come and see us before you do anything important uh
Carter: uh yeah and
Zain: yeah
SPEAKER_00: yeah and i
Carter: and i really think that that's been the mandate letter for quite some time even with the trudeau stuff when trudeau's government was trying to control from the prime minister's office i would like to see if we have these super qualified individuals saying that are in the top 10 ministries assuming that's right yeah Yeah, that their mandate letter be something along the lines of, please bring us your priorities back to the Privy Council cabinet and
Zain: assuming that's right yeah Yeah,
Zain: cabinet and let
Carter: let us know what is happening from week to week so that we can adjust our priorities as a government. Because shit is going to get real. To the point
Annalise: real. To the point at the beginning about differentiating himself from Trudeau and Trudeau's liberals, is there an opportunity to do that with mandate letters? I
Zain: I think there is. I think there is. I mean, like there's there's the baseline question of whether they're public or not. Right. Because they don't have to be public.
Annalise: to be public. They
Zain: They can be private. They can be summarized or they can be fully public.
Zain: And so I really like what Carter's doing. And it also plays into a notion that our friend Corey Hogan has brought up on the show multiple times, which is often people in government and in politics like govern and politic like psychopaths. Right. Like you wouldn't see this in the workplace. workplace you wouldn't in any sort of normal non-toxic workplace see a boss hand you an aggressive sort of letter that's one-sided and then never speak to you ever again which is by the way kind of the relationship that even the most senior ministers have with one's prime minister and
SPEAKER_00: ministers have
Zain: so i really am into carter's idea of saying here's what i think the priorities are i want you to co-create with me and i want you to do it relatively quickly and we want to we will we'll kind of mold something together and then gel it relatively soon now that you've been given this role um
Zain: um any
Zain: any
Zain: any we know any boss who gives you directives and then never speaks to you again and then just asks you when they're done is
Zain: is not any sort of like true collaborator right like they're they're not they're not a a an inspiring leader they're a they're a boss they're a manager uh they're not necessarily leaders so i i think there's an opportunity to break the mold a bit it. Whether that happens or not, we'll see. There's two things that I have written down here that I think are important, though, for Carney.
Carter: they're they're not
Zain: Number one, it goes to your previous question around titles. Less is more. I think the flowery, almost sort of you are now the face of housing across Canada. As people search for a home, you will now be like the Trudeau stuff. Yeah, enough of that. No rhetoric, just like simply like roles, responsibilities. And then the second point, I think that's really going to be important, is
Carter: Yeah, enough
Annalise: enough
Zain: is that these
Zain: are wartime mandate
Annalise: mandate
Zain: mandate letters.
Zain: you have to keep the crisis thread through
SPEAKER_00: through all of them. We
Zain: We are in a crisis. Your file, at least in anything major that touches on the economy, your file is in crisis. There's tons of upside and opportunity. I task you with your experience, skills, and your readiness to serve to do these things, but do not be mistaken. We are in a crisis. Therefore, the following metrics for you are aggressive but achievable. I'm here to help you in every single way and move any sort of barriers that you need. But I think one thing, should these be made public, even if the summaries are made public, is that these are wartime mandate letters, not peacetime mandate letters. These are not go out and stakeholder engaged. This is go out and get shit done. That is the mandate we have won. That is the mandate we are going to act upon.
Annalise: Well, Carter, is the mandate letter not also just an opportunity, to Zane's point, to reinforce the key messages and reinforce the times we're in and what people need to do?
Carter: It absolutely should be. I mean, keep in mind that there's going to be, well, some 30 to 40 of these things. So these mandate letters can and should tell a story. It shouldn't just be, you know, here are my three things. It should be, here's what I'm expecting from the departments as we move forward. Here's what your responsibilities as minister are. You know, the economic diversification ministries, which have traditionally been quite small
Carter: ministries with low priority, they might be super important in the coming weeks, months of tariff discussions. You know, suddenly every ministry may be looked at differently because of what's going to happen with Trump's tariffs or whatever the hell he's going to announce about Canada this week. fake. Who knows? Lord knows my TikTok algorithm doesn't quite have it figured out yet.
Annalise: weeks,
SPEAKER_00: weeks,
Annalise: Zane, did you want to jump in there?
Zain: I think Carter's notion of story is really interesting and important. I'm curious what you think, both of you, around a story, Carter, of if you do your job well, here's what the future could look like for people. And maybe that's too overly ambitious, but I do feel like something think that governments struggle with is talking about the upside, right? To say, if you do your job well, Canadians will be able to move freely, do this, do that, have greater security in doing A, B, and C. That's what's on the line here. And I almost, you know,
Zain: it's almost seems contradictory to like, kind of set the bar like that for your ministers. But I think a story that can inspire and that they can use to kind of as a North Star for why they're doing what they're doing in this moment could also be important and so one thing i think that that we have not seen enough of as part of that storytelling is if you do your job really fucking well here's what it could look like when we in terms of what we achieve and and i feel like you know you might be like well why does one need to make that public i
Zain: i think it's both accountability and motivation for for for this moment that i think also allows a bit of a reset in terms of how a government communicates not just just externally, but with each other and with this team. And if
Carter: for
Zain: if they're truly a team, I think that's going to be quite important. Suzanne,
Annalise: Suzanne, you're saying put people first in the storytelling.
Zain: Well,
Annalise: Well,
Zain: Well, put people first, but also, you know, suggest very clearly that if you do it correctly, if you do it well, if we align, if we collaborate, if we empower each other, if we promote cross-ministerial collaboration, if we embed accountability, and if I'm there with your support with the bully pulpit of the prime ministership, Here's what we can achieve together. And that here's what we can achieve together paragraph almost is a copy and paste from every single mandate letter of an imagined future that this government is thinking of in their head for Canadians. And you're playing your not
SPEAKER_00: mandate letter of
Zain: not small but extremely large part in making that three, four, five sentences a reality.
Annalise: Does that work, Carter? I almost like them to have that North Star story,
Zain: I
Zain: almost like them to have that North Star story, you know?
Carter: Is it getting too fluffy? No, it's not getting too fluffy. I think that, and one other thing that I would do is probably put in which ministries we need to cooperate with the most, right? Like, this is, it's not just a game, right? Like, there's a tremendous amount of work to be done and cooperation that's going to need to be done. I would also like to see mandate letters for the committees, you know, with that type of, here's what we can expect. The problem is, how do you write the deliverable? uh the the challenge of making a cabinet is is twofold first of all it's selecting the talented people right there's and and you've got to balance regions you've got to balance uh capacity you've got to balance a whole bunch of different problems that's
Annalise: No,
SPEAKER_00: it's
SPEAKER_00: too fluffy. I
Zain: uh the
Carter: that's a that's a problem but the second is just getting ready right just getting the departments ready getting the getting the uh uh the the mandate letters done getting the like it it just goes
Zain: getting
Carter: goes and goes and goes and there's not enough So I'd be very interested to see what mandate letters are actually released and how complete they are. My feeling is that given the amount of time that's passed, I'm looking for people to be in this C plus missing information type of grading rather than everything is, you know, as Zane is describing it, we actually have a through line and, you know, beginning, a middle and an end in each of these letters. But they
Zain: feeling is
Annalise: than everything
Annalise: each of these letters.
Annalise: But they also don't have to release them. Like, could you not make another headline later in the week or next week or something with your... Go
Carter: another headline
Zain: with your...
Annalise: Go ahead. As we
Zain: As we try to figure this out, like I think I'm landing on my sweet spot, which is an expanded mandate letter of five to seven priorities with a story about the crisis basis, the story, the offer of support and the ability to co-create these and get back to me with your feedback. Talk to your DMs, ADMs. Let's get like talk. Get back to me and my people with your feedback. Let's mold these. That's the private one. The public one. Don't release them full. summary with a pithy three to four key issues that you're going to target that are being assigned to you um what the what the goals are and then that that same sort of sense of like crisis urgency and a bit of a story around it the story of this country the story of you this why we need you and your skills and your leadership and the story of all of us right now um and
Zain: and why this is urgent at this present moment so a summary version half a page to a page not the trudeau version 30 to 50 items which by the way i
Annalise: 50 items
SPEAKER_00: items
Zain: i
SPEAKER_00: i think
Zain: think both from a priority perspective but as well as a rhetorical perspective just does not work if there's 30 to 50 items there's zero items frankly if there's 10 items there's zero items and if there's 30 to 50 items you're putting 30 to 50 items out there to keep your your your the opposition accountable to you and you're never going to achieve those even if they're big or small what
Annalise: do you like zane you've mentioned what you're looking for tomorrow what headline do you like what's the good we talked after the trump meeting with carney like that you know a a a minus a plus performance what's like a good headline and i asked this thinking back to 2015 i was like what what stood out when uh trudeau named his first cabinet and i don't know what comes to mind for you guys but for me it was that gender parity line because Because his, like, why
Annalise: why is gender parity important? Because it's 2015 was, like, international news.
Annalise: And it's wild how much has changed in 10 years. But what do you
Annalise: you think is a good headline coming out of tomorrow for Carney? So
Zain: it could be something that he delivers from the podium, like a 2015-style quip when he does a press conference with the Carter loves us and he's going to love it
SPEAKER_00: it tomorrow as well with the human wall of
Zain: ministers who have all the power in the world, but won't say a fucking thing tomorrow.
SPEAKER_00: ministers who have all the power
Carter: power
Zain: because they're going to be standing behind their prime minister. So Carter's going to love that.
SPEAKER_00: that.
Zain: that.
Zain: So it could be a quip there, but I think we're already seeing it telegraphed. We
Zain: We recorded here on Monday night. I think we actually know what they want it to be. They want it to be about new faces. They
Annalise: They want
Zain: want it to be about half. They're trying to engineer that quote across three to five mainstream media sources right now. Over half will be new. Over half, over half. We've seen it like so many times now.
SPEAKER_00: Brooke
Zain: Brooke
SPEAKER_00: Brooke
SPEAKER_00: showed her friend Aisha CIBC Investor's Edge while at the carnival. Aisha thinks gut-wrenching ups and downs should be for roller coasters and
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Zain: I think they should want it to be about focus and results. It's
Zain: a results-oriented, focused group. One thing they should not try to swing for is leaner and smaller because no one's buying that shit.
SPEAKER_00: 30
Carter: 30 and 10 juniors, Zane. What do you mean no one's buying this? But that was the whole
Annalise: 30 and 10 juniors, Zane. What do you mean no one's buying
Zain: buying this? But that was
Zain: whole thing heading into tonight. I don't think they should spend any more capital trying to go over with leaner, smaller, whatever, small government, like whatever they're trying to indicate. Go with focused. Right. And that's going to be how you map the titles and how you map the people and go with results driven.
Zain: That's what they want to try to engineer tomorrow. In addition to the headline
Zain: of brand new sort of thing.
Annalise: Carter, what's an A-plus headline out of tomorrow?
Carter: It's a new government.
Carter: instead of the fourth term of the liberals. It's a new government, a new direction. It'll be interesting how this foreshadows the speech from the throne. It'll be interesting to see how this foreshadows the relationship with all the various regions of the country. It's a hard country to govern. It's got a lot of different spaces, a lot of different types of people, and a lot of people who are going to say, say, if I didn't get X, then I am pissed. And whatever X might be, they'll be looking for it in the mandate letter. They'll be looking for it in the speech from the throne. They'll be looking for it in cabinet composition. So there'll be two different stories. There'll be a national story that you're hoping to get, you know, new government out of. And then there'll be the regional stories, which will all be, we got what we wanted. Our star is here. A star is born, right? Or our Our cabinet minister of 15 years survived, or
Carter: or whatever the situation may be. Or more likely, the regional stories are going to be all about those who got dumped and got overlooked.
SPEAKER_00: or whatever
Annalise: It's like the Oscars. Carter, because you brought it up, what's a good
Carter: It's like the Oscars.
SPEAKER_00: Oscars.
Annalise: good headline for Alberta given what is happening in Alberta right now? And we can chat more about it in a sec, but what does Alberta want to see?
Carter: I think Alberta wants to see strong cabinet ministers. I think that we have two MPs and people want to see that there's two cabinet ministers that can get the job done. I suspect that anything less
Carter: less
Carter: than that is going to generate negative headlines here. The
Carter: The same way that I think that, you know, like there's 20 members of parliament in the lower mainland of British Columbia. They'll be wanting to see, you know, four or five, six different people in cabinet from the lower mainland. land um i suspect that they'll that they'll be disappointed in the lower mainland but i'm not entirely sure uh this is the beauty of cabinet we don't know who's on the planes uh we don't know who's you know who's going to to ottawa to to uh walk up to rito tomorrow rito uh what is it rito hut rito chateau we've actually been reduced to a cottage oh cottage that's what it is The hall
Zain: rito chateau we've actually been reduced to a cottage oh cottage
Zain: that's what it is The hall
Carter: That's the one Not
Zain: Not the hut
Carter: Not the hut
Zain: Rito Hut sounds like Sunglass Hut Sounds like something you'd find at the downtown Ottawa mall Well,
Carter: sounds like Sunglass
Carter: Well,
Carter: Well,
Carter: Well, you know, I'm old Words escape me And Rito Hut is also RitoHut.ca is actually
Zain: Words
Zain: Words escape
Zain: And Rito Hut is also RitoHut.ca is actually also where you can find What can they find there, Carter?
Carter: Sunglasses Oh,
Carter: Oh, good
Zain: good We're
Carter: We're
Zain: We're actually launching our own sunglasses Strategist Sunglasses Available at RitoHut.ca
Carter: actually
Annalise: actually
Carter: actually launching our own sunglasses
Annalise: Available at RitoHut.ca
Zain: .ca Perfect
Annalise: Perfect
Annalise: Last one on this, guys not specifically to cabinet making but staff and i i bring it up carter in the fall um when i was periodically on this podcast we would talk like i'd be like guys explain it to me why are the liberals why is trudeau being so dumb about this and you and cory would always be like because they're working with the c team like they you know it's 10 years in they don't have the a team they don't have the b team they're working with the c team when it comes to staff what type of i guess like opportunity or differences does Carney have with, you know, he's not dealing with the same people who were there a year ago.
Carter: Well, of note, he hasn't named his chief of staff going forward. He hasn't said this is... I don't know if it's Marco,
Zain: hasn't said this is... I don't know if it's Marco, yeah. Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, we haven't named the chief of staff. We haven't seen deputy chiefs of staff. We haven't seen the principal secretary. Brayden Cayley seems to still be standing beside him. You can recognize his bald head over, you know, every time I see it, I think, there goes a brother. brother there goes a brother and uh you know i see i see that and i think you know uh i'm glad that braden's still there but i'm interested to see who the team will be this has to be the a team it has to be the best possible team that you can bring because it never gets better um it is the you know so if you're carrying people over from the trudeau regimen then you've got a regime sorry Sorry, not regimen. Totally different. Just really mixing up your words
Annalise: Just really mixing up your words tonight.
Carter: I'm tired. It's after 9.15.
Annalise: It's
SPEAKER_00: It's after 9
Annalise: 9.15.
Annalise: I
Carter: I had to drive all the way to Edmonton. But if the regime of Trudeau...
Annalise: had to
SPEAKER_00: to drive all the way to Edmonton.
SPEAKER_00: But
Zain: But
SPEAKER_00: But
Zain: But if the regime of Trudeau... The blood from your head has gone to your butt because of the bidet. Yeah, exactly. It's just now going back up to your head.
Carter: bidet.
Carter: Yeah, exactly. It's just now going
Carter: Everything's been stimulated.
Zain: Everything's
Carter: regime, if it's all from Trudeau... The regimen, Amy.
Zain: from Trudeau... The regimen, Amy. The regimen. Sorry.
Carter: Rideau Hut. Yeah. Keep talking, Carter. If
Carter: it's all from Trudeau, we're going to have real issues. because the Trudeau team wasn't that great at the end. But I'm not sure where Mark's going to be reaching out, Mark, to Zane and I, Prime Minister Carney, to you. To you, at least, yeah. Yeah, at least. It's a little different.
Zain: To you, at least, yeah. Yeah, at least. It's
Zain: It's unfortunate, but... Yeah.
Carter: Yeah. It's
Zain: It's a white guy thing, amongst white guys. Amongst white guys.
Carter: amongst white guys.
Carter: Anyways, I think that I'm
Carter: really looking forward to seeing who the Chief of Staff is. I'm really looking forward to seeing who the communications team looked like.
Zain: And I'm looking forward to
Carter: to seeing who's in the minister's offices because I think that's going to tell a story too. I would like to see, like there was a quote in the newspaper on the weekend saying it was like the Hunger Games. And I would like it to be like the Hunger Games because only one out of 20 survive from the Trudeau era. I'd like to see a whole brand new, a whole new cohort of liberal staffers come in. and take over the government, because I think that's the energy that's going to be required.
Annalise: Zane, do you agree? And do you think there's like a lineup of those people? Like, and I think this goes back to those conversations we kept having in the fall, like you guys were like, well, no one wants this job anymore. Like anyone who wanted to be a staffer was
Carter: lineup of those
Annalise: was doing it 10 years ago. Like, is there enough fresh
Zain: fresh
Annalise: fresh blood and new vibes that there's that lineup of people who want what's like a really hard job? i
Zain: i'm not sure if carter believes what i'm about to say but i'm going to say it anyways we'll
Annalise: we'll see which is facial expression which
Zain: which is facial
Zain: which is i think this is a moment for carney to look outside of the traditional political uh field for talent he
Annalise: does not like what he says carter
Zain: does not like
Annalise: carter
Zain: carter
Annalise: carter
Zain: carter because he is a political hack uh with uh with limited outside skills here's
Annalise: because he
Annalise: here's
Zain: here's here's the thing here's the thing Mark Carney has a lineup of people across the world wanting
Carter: here's here's
SPEAKER_00: here's
Zain: wanting to work for him, that
Zain: have worked for him, that have experience with him, many of them which are Canadians, by the way, and I've talked to a number of them over the course of the last number of weeks saying, should we come back? We've had these conversations. We've never worked in politics, but they're smart, capable people who want to help Mark Carney. And I think there's a space for those folks, especially when you're trying to look for a rejuvenation of
Zain: talent. You want to do it in a way that kind of like looks
Zain: at skills over patronage skills and mindset and pedigree over how long you've been with the with the political party. And then you add and supplement that with those who know how to run a political office. And so, Carter, you know, some
Zain: of Harper's chiefs of staff remind me if I'm wrong. Was
Zain: it Nigel Wright that came from the corporate world? Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, he wound up leaving under a cloud of political...
Zain: he wound
Zain: to make things run, to make things move, to gatekeep on his behalf, to make strategic decisions on his behalf.
Zain: I think there's a role for those people that have been in Carney's life before. And there's a bunch of folks across the Western world because of his vast network that want to either come back and work with him or come to Canada and work with him. I think that's an opportunity in a lane that is fundamentally unique to Mark Carney in this particular moment, especially with the crisis posture that he is promoting to the rest of the world. Because for For many people, this is not just a Save Canada PMO. This is a Fight Trump PMO. And I think there's a lot of people who want to be stakeholders,
Zain: stakeholders, if not passengers or leaders in that venture. I
Zain: think in addition to that, I'm very conflicted on the Trudeau question.
Zain: In one way, it's been one of the most successful PMO operations in a very long time for the liberals. It's been obviously the most recent, but I don't even look at most recent. and I'd say most successful in the way of longevity, but it's had its soft spots.
Zain: Comms has been a soft spot.
Zain: Overall sort of rapid response in crisis management has been an issues management, if you want to call it that, has been a soft spot. And one would potentially kind of suggest that their overall sort of showcasing of the team and showcasing roles across the board has been a soft spot. So I'm actually quite conflicted without a sort of definitive result on where he should go with the Trudeau team. But I suspect that they're going to stick around at least for now. But how does he integrate new people, especially those that have a desire to work with him, is going to be a really interesting question. Carter,
SPEAKER_00: Overall
Annalise: Carter, it looks like you did not agree with what Zane was saying based on your facial expression, which people can watch on YouTube. I sold him at the
Zain: watch on YouTube. I sold him at the end.
Annalise: Yeah. You stuck out your tongue, I believe. Your face looks really frowny and upset. Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, I mean, it was so long ago, I don't remember what was said, though. That's a Corey Hogan
Annalise: said, though.
Zain: That's
Annalise: That's
Zain: That's a Corey Hogan-length response. It was
Carter: was a Corey Hogan-length response, for sure. Listen, I think that, first,
Carter: first, there's a couple of things. When he waxed on about Trudeau, my brain turned to absolute mush. Just stop listening. This was not the world's most successful, you know, liberal government. I think that it lost its way relatively early in its second term. By the time we got to third term, they were just taking advantage of the opportunity to get re-elected. They weren't bringing a real vision to the table. So I disagree with that. And I think that from the middle of the second term on, sure, there's some stars. I think of Hannah Wilson, who worked with Chrystia Freeland, who ran the Calgary Center campaign of Lindsay Lunau. I mean, she's a once
Annalise: stop listening. This was not the
Carter: in a generation talent, but that talent needs
Carter: needs to move on to the next world, too. Like I would be I'd be feeling sad for Hannah if she wound up back in government again, having been there for I think it was two terms of Trudeau. I think that her opportunity lies outside of government. And I think the government's opportunity lies outside of Hannah. And that's not a slight. That is a testimony to her skill and her ability. But at the same time, it's an opportunity for change. This can't be the extension of the Trudeau government. It must be the beginning of the Carney government. I
Zain: again, having
Annalise: enjoy the shout out to Hannah because she's great. I know her well. But someone like Hannah, and I'll say this because we know Hannah, but she's young. Like Hannah is young. Don't you think from a career perspective to be like, hey, new
Annalise: new man in town, things are doing differently, get some more experience. experience how
Carter: much more experience does one need i mean she was you know very high up in fine in the finance department who who was the the the guy that uh they
Carter: you know was listening to the podcast that we shouted out they almost got fired um you know like this we have we
Carter: had big big ties into finance at one point um we were
Zain: we were huge in the finance department we're huge
Carter: we're huge in the finance department i think that you know the the point of the exercise here is that people have to Two,
Carter: government is not like industry where you have a 30-year career. Okay. So you're saying move on. You have a three to seven-year career in government, and that's good because government needs to refresh itself much more than an industry does. Because industry, you know what? An industry corporation can fail.
Carter: Government can't. Government needs to continue.
Annalise: Okay. Zane, do you agree with that? You're just rolling your eyes right now.
Zain: No, I'm still conflicted. The reason I think these staff should consider coming back is
Zain: is because it's not about what they can do for themselves. At some point, it's about they have the prerequisite skills to be able to keep the country and certain ministries on the guardrails. So especially if Carney goes with this idea of bringing new people in that he wants to work with, that he's comfortable with, which is absolutely his right. He's a fucking prime minister. He can do whatever he wants. And I think it is actually a good idea on its own merits. But you're going to need some of these folks that have experience. And yes, they've been part of the damn Trudeau administration, Carter. Oh, my God. Right. But they know how shit works. They know how to keep the train on the tracks. They know they have experience. It's not about what's in it for them at a certain point. If they come back, it's about in this crisis moment, in this wartime posture where we're fighting for the sovereignty of our country while one province has to separate from the country, what can I do to ensure that my skills are put to maximal use?
Zain: There's a question there. It goes back to the Carney quote, doing something for the sake of doing something or doing something to want to be something. This falls into that former category, and I think that applies to staffers too, even if Carter thinks the Trudeau government sustained for some of them.
Annalise: Okay, guys, let's move into a cabinet-making lightning round. And Carter, have the Oilers scored? Have you heard cheering? What's going on? I can't.
Carter: can't. I've looked over at the stadium. It's still standing. Good news, the arena is still there. That is an update from Edmonton. Thank you. Great live report. A Civil War reporter.
Zain: Great live report. A Civil War reporter. Did you see how he moved that
Annalise: reporter.
Annalise: Did you see how he moved that mic around? During the
Zain: During the separation of 2026. It's good.
Carter: the separation
Annalise: separation of 2026.
Zain: Perfect.
Annalise: Perfect.
Zain: I'm pretty excited to report. Carter is on scene.
Annalise: pretty excited to report. Carter is on scene. um
Carter: scene.
Annalise: um okay what did i say lightning lightning
Zain: okay
Carter: okay
Annalise: lightning round rapid fire um
Carter: round rapid fire
Annalise: um rapid fire fire to rapid rapid fire for tomorrow at what are we calling it rito hut um
Carter: rapid fire
Annalise: rito hut you can get sunglasses rito hut.ca strategist
Carter: rito hut you
Carter: strategist sunglasses perfect
Annalise: perfect carter what uh we didn't get into any names we didn't to say any names, but give me some names of who you're looking, who's in, who's out.
Carter: Oh my gosh. I mean, Gregor Robertson I think needs to be in. I think Evan Solomon needs to be in. I think our pal Corey should be in. And who needs to be out? I
Annalise: Gregor Robertson
Annalise: And who needs to be out? I
Carter: think out
Carter: is really tough, because I don't really, you know, like, I'm not really, like, the reports are that Christopher Freeland's out. The reports are that John and Julie is out. She's back
Zain: John and Julie is out. She's back in again, by the way. CCTV's doubled back on their report, saying she's back second oh
Carter: oh that's that's fantastic i mean i don't know who's in i don't know who's out but i do know that um i'll
Zain: fantastic i
Carter: tell you it's going to be carnage if if there's if it's 50 new people then there's going to be people out that we were not expecting out then
SPEAKER_00: if it's
Annalise: then who are your top three in top three out i
Carter: who
Zain: who
Carter: who
Zain: who are
Carter: are
Zain: don't have those i think it's more about the quality of folks on the front bench the top 10 I think the out is more about, is
Zain: there any shock value to who is left out from the Trudeau era, right? Who was indispensable in the Trudeau era and they find themselves not? I think that's frankly, in some cases, helpful. helpful uh so the freeland rumor which has been going around kind of made sense to me because it was moving on from an era right moving on from from a particular and now knowing that she's or now reporting that
Zain: that she's back in and
Zain: and what's the replacement of that like how do you kind of truly signal because one headline they can't afford um
Zain: um because
Zain: because if it's if it's carter's headline of a new government or it's my headline of focus on results and uh uh you know derivation of that One headline they can't afford is Trudeau era. They cannot afford that. So they need enough people out from the Trudeau era to – serious people enough out from the Trudeau era to make that case.
Carter: Can I just make a point that – I'll let you even though you
Annalise: I'll let you even though you shouldn't because it's a light news. Zane ignored
Carter: light news. Zane ignored the premise of the question as well as I did. He didn't answer it. You gave six names.
Annalise: He didn't answer it. You gave six names. He didn't give any.
Carter: He at the end – Let me give you six names. He at the end of the day –
Zain: Let me give you six names. He at
SPEAKER_00: the
Annalise: the end of the day –
Annalise: Top
Carter: Top three in. Stephen Carter.
Annalise: Top
Zain: Top three in. Stephen Carter. St. Belchie. Annalise Klingbeil, St. Belchie. Okay. Top three out. Stephen Carter.
Annalise: Carter.
Carter: Carter.
Annalise: St. Belchie. Annalise Klingbeil,
Zain: Okay. Top
Zain: three in, Evan Solomon, Corey Hogan. Very good friends. And I'm hoping there's some surprises that come out of the Atlantic Canada. More than a couple, I think would be really interesting. See what he did there, Carter? More than Frasier. He just
Annalise: really interesting. See what he did there, Carter? More than Frasier. He just gave two names and then said more than a couple.
Carter: gave two
Zain: two names and
Carter: and then said more than
Zain: than a couple.
Carter: couple.
Zain: couple.
Annalise: Cody
Zain: Cody
Carter: Cody Boyce. Okay, there we go.
Annalise: we go. Guys, we're going to leave it there. That is a wrap on episode 1868 of The Strategist. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Zane Belgi and Stephen Carter.