Transcript
Annalise
0:01
Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1867. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Stephen Carter and Zain Velji.
Annalise
0:11
Hey, Zain. Good evening, guys.
Zain
0:14
Well, Carter and I have seen each other already. Yeah,
Annalise
0:16
Yeah, what happened? What were you doing at lunchtime today?
Carter
0:19
Well, we went and did the AFP, the Association of Fundraising Professionals Compass Conference. We did it as a freebie because, you know, we're generous people. And it was a room full of fundraisers for great cause. Carter couldn't
Zain
0:33
couldn't negotiate a rate that was high enough. That doesn't
Annalise
0:35
doesn't sound like Stephen Carter.
Zain
0:37
Okay, let me let you in on a secret. If you don't meet Carter's rate, he will do it for free and bring his friends along.
Carter
0:49
that what happened? It pretty much was. But no, no, I mean, so I
Carter
0:54
was blackmailed. Blackmails? I was blackmailed. My daughter asked me to do it. Which one? Maddie. Maddie. If I didn't do it, she was going to tell everybody's secrets about me. So I felt I had no choice. And then I thought, you know what? Let's drag along all the strategists. So I invited Corey and Zane. And
Carter
1:14
And not you, Annalise. Rose. I feel bad about it now. Okay.
Carter
1:18
Corey's a big deal.
Carter
1:20
Corey is kind of a big deal. And we all three agreed to do it. And guess who didn't bother to show up?
Annalise
1:24
Corey Hogan. That guy. What else is he doing with his time? How did it go? I saw a photo of you asleep, possibly on a couch. No,
Carter
1:34
No, I had a little lie down because I felt like I was in a therapist's office talking about the hypocrisy of Danielle Smith's position with the federal government versus her position with municipalities. Where, you know, she says basically to the feds, stay out of our business. And to municipalities, she's like, I'm all up in your business. So you laid down on a
Annalise
1:54
a couch to make this point?
Zain
1:55
point? Well, it wasn't his happy place. I don't know if you know that, but what he just described right there, he was trying to hide an erection from everyone, just trying to make sure that they wouldn't be able to notice that it was the topic that gets them the most excited. Other than cursing Corey's chances of cabinet, which by the way, do you want to talk about which ministry he will get and put it on the record here?
Carter
2:14
Me? No, I'm afraid I don't, because I don't want to curse his chances of getting cabinet. But I did do that during the live show. You did? I did do that during the live show. People got a
Annalise
2:25
a lot for the $0 speaking fee that they paid you. I'll tell you, we
Carter
2:30
we did a great job, Zane, didn't we? Didn't we do a great job?
Zain
2:34
If they go to invitecartertospeak.com, they can put in their $0 bid of having Carter come to whatever event you are hosting. Your
Zain
2:42
Your speaker fee is what, Carter? Let's just say $10,000. And if you can't meet that, you need to go to invitecartertospeak.com. Okay,
Carter
2:49
Okay, first of all, my speaking fee is $6,500. $500. That's
Zain
2:54
That's actually not nearly enough. That's plenty. How am
Zain
2:56
charging more in my head for my speaking fee? I
Carter
2:59
I mean, here's the trick with speaking fees. In my head.
Carter
3:02
In my head. Here's the trick with speaking fees. Occasionally, someone has to pay it, right?
Carter
3:06
right? Occasionally. Then it's a speaking fee. Otherwise, it's just a number on a page.
Carter
3:10
So, you know, we can make it $10,000. Is that
Zain
3:13
that how you view money? That's
Carter
3:14
That's how Stephen Carter operates.
Zain
3:17
Oh, God, what are we doing with that, Corey? if we need someone with financial credibility on
Carter
3:22
on the podcast. But you can hire the strategist for only $3,500, which I think is pretty great.
Zain
3:26
great. You get Carter for $6,500 or
Zain
3:29
or all of us for $3,500. Or you could get Carter for free at invitecartertospeak.com.
Carter
3:35
.com. Seriously, when we started up the podcast, I was charging like more than all three of us together.
Annalise
3:41
look at you now. One of you is an MP. Carter's charging $0. and Zane's doing good. And Zane's still doing good. I've got my own show
Zain
3:52
Please, please come visit. Come on, come on. Okay,
Annalise
3:54
Okay, guys, we've got things to talk about in addition to your lunchtime. Is there a live recording? Can people hear? This is a good question.
Annalise
4:06
We should have. $0
Carter
4:07
not get it recorded. Okay, well,
Annalise
4:08
well, you guys were doing that. Other things were happening. Today, our Prime Minister was meeting the President, Our president, our premier, was speaking. There were things going on. So let's get into it. Before we do that, before
Carter
4:20
before we get into it, can we just cover off for the video watchers that you are, in fact, in a closet? I
Annalise
4:27
I am in a closet. I don't even know that. You really care that I am in a closet. It's quiet. It's good sound quality. Corey Hogan would be happy. It's
Zain
4:35
It's not good sound quality. I bet it's from what I'm hearing. It's fine. It's
Annalise
4:38
It's good sound quality. There's no baby crying in the background. What's wrong with my closet, Stephen Carter? We
Carter
4:43
We liked the baby crying in the background last time. That was cute. Says
Annalise
4:46
Says a man who does not like babies in public settings. I
Carter
4:50
I don't like babies in public settings, but I do like babies in general.
Annalise
4:54
You do like babies in general. You like my baby. Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm in a closet, and it's quiet, and we're going to talk about Trump and Carney. Anything else you want to lay on the table, Carter, before we get into it?
Carter
5:07
No, I wanted to make sure the closet thing got out. Okay,
Annalise
5:09
Okay, yeah. I'm in a closet. If you're listening to this, there will be video you can watch. You can see the white walls behind me. And yeah,
Annalise
5:18
that's where I am.
Annalise
5:19
Okay, guys, let's talk about it. Trump was the first segment. Trump and Carney had their first meeting today,
Annalise
5:26
their first in-person meeting at the White House. For two months, Carney has framed himself as the best person to take on Trump.
Annalise
5:33
Tuesday's talk is being called the highest stakes discussion ever between a U.S. president and Canadian Prime Minister. So, Stephen
Annalise
5:41
how did Carney do? If you were to give him a grade for today's performance with Trump, what would you give him?
Carter
5:49
I would give him, what's the scale of the grade? Grade,
Annalise
5:52
Grade, like letter grade, yeah. But pluses, minuses, F is the lowest, typically A plus is the highest. Nope, that's
Zain
6:01
not a letter. It's a very
Zain
6:02
very British school system, that's very, very nice. Yeah,
Carter
6:04
Yeah, he did a fine job. He did a pass. And I'll tell you why he did a pass. He didn't want Bert still laughing at the inane comments coming out of the president's mouth. He actually behaved himself like it was some sort of real honest to God conversation with someone who wasn't a lunatic. And the fact that he was able to behave that way, I think was extremely impressive under the circumstances. So I give him a pass.
Annalise
6:27
pass. So a pass and extremely impressive. Zane, what's your letter, Grace? So
Zain
6:31
So Carter's either become a tough grader Or he's completely full of shit and hasn't seen this presser Which one is it Carter? I've seen
Carter
6:37
seen the presser I've
Carter
6:38
presser I've seen the presser
Carter
6:40
presser I've seen the I saw the interviews I saw the interviews after I spent a lot of time researching this And you gave
Zain
6:49
a pass Yeah and you gave it a pass
Zain
6:54
A It's an A This is a very good job
Zain
6:59
By Mark Carter I think
Zain
7:00
think there's a number of reasons. I think it starts with last week at the press
Zain
7:05
press conference last week, which leads into the bilateral today. The press conference set the stakes and the expectations perfectly, saying that don't expect results. And the bilateral for a number of reasons, where he asserted
Zain
7:18
asserted defense of Canadian sovereignty multiple times, had a great line that looked extremely organic after Trump talked about real estate and being a real estate developer. developer so great research on on his office's part great execution on his part saying mr president you know like real estate it didn't seem like a canned line where he brought up real estate he said you know you mentioned real estate the white house isn't for sale buckingham palace is for sale canada isn't for sale he was funny which i think really mattered when trump was teasing before carney could say a word where trump was talking for like 15 minutes in monologue saying there's a big announcement friday carney's like i'm on the edge of my seat i care more about that than this but
SPEAKER_00
7:56
but it'll be one of the most important announcements have been made in
SPEAKER_00
8:00
in many years about a certain subject very important subject so you'll all be here uh mark would you like to say a few words um well
Zain
8:09
well thank you mr president i'm on the edge of my seat actually i thought
Zain
8:13
thought that was extremely funny when trump said never say never cardi just looked at the cameras like it was an episode of the office and was like it was like never yeah that's not gonna happen um and he he picked his spots right like he picked his spots one of the one of the most important things in politics we talk about whether it be longitudinally over months or years or in the moment of a 25 minute bilateral is when do you swing and when do you not swing and
Zain
8:40
and if the criticism that Carney is left with that he didn't swing enough but the swings that he made made contact then I'm more than happy to take that criticism if I'm Mark Carney the swings that he made every Every single time, the ball hit wood, and he at least got on base, Carter. Sounds
Carter
8:55
Sounds like a pass to me.
Zain
8:57
Sounds like an A to me, Carter. Sounds like Carter has not seen this. How would you have coached him or done this better? I thought this was a clear articulation of our priorities. What do you think are the other options
Annalise
9:07
Pick a letter, Carter. Pick
Zain
9:09
a fucking letter, Carter. This was, I think this was a, listen, I know
Zain
9:13
Mark, so I'm hard on Mark. And so I'm
Zain
9:17
I'm giving him an A. I was actually expected to be. Did you watch this live, Carter? You and I were texting and I was like, fuck, this is I was like on the edge of my seat being like, I hope he doesn't fuck this up. He not only didn't fuck it up. I thought he nailed it. Yeah.
Zain
9:30
And the reason I mentioned that is that a lot of us were tuned in live because the opportunity to fuck it up with the volatility that is Trump. Trump. Because let's be clear, a fuck up in this situation is not necessarily Mark Carney, a trained corporate professional, a trained public intellectual, central banker saying the wrong thing. A fuck up in this situation is a wrong look, is a wrong smirk, is nodding your head at the wrong time. Because Trump would say something normal and then say something inane and then look over to Carney. And you've got to be extremely careful in the moment that you're not nodding along while Donald Trump is saying Christopher Freeland fucking sucked at her job.
Zain
10:10
Or whatever, right? And there was a few moments, and one thing Carney does not have is a poker face. Like, we've seen that throughout his, like, the last six months. Mark Carney does not have a poker face, but man, did he put one on today, and he was close to cracking a few times, and sometimes couldn't help himself, but none of it was penalty-worthy, none of it was disastrous enough, but the stakes were extremely high, and I think he did really well. Okay,
Annalise
10:33
Okay, so you say an A. Carter, did you say 96%? Did you give a percentage? Okay, so that's like an A+, is it not? It's
Carter
10:42
It's like a pass. It's above a pass?
Carter
10:47
It's a very British system. You can get a 96%, but you're just the same. The pass is you either pass or you fail. You
Annalise
10:52
You think he passed? He did what he needed to do?
Carter
10:56
Yeah, I mean, you guys are... I mean, all the things that Zane said, I mean, I really love the never going, you know like the never never never literally
Zain
11:04
literally like it was an office episode
Zain
11:05
episode yeah just being like i'm gonna just look directly into the camera like jim and
Zain
11:09
be like you know that's that's
Carter
11:09
that's not gonna happen like michael
Zain
11:10
michael was speaking and jim was like oh my god like that's that's just so just so you guys know i'm like it's it's gonna be never yeah
Carter
11:16
yeah i thought it was very and the question was asked of him in the press conference if he had asked donald trump during the private meeting to stop referring to canada as the 51st state and you know he one of the things i like about but Mark Carney is he's sharp also
Carter
11:29
also with the media a little bit. Right. And basically he said, yes, I did say that. And then they said, well, what were the exact words? And his, and he was like, you know, what
Annalise
11:37
what you just said. Yeah. Yeah.
Carter
11:39
Yeah. Like ask me a follow, like do you have a followup? No. Okay. Let's go into the next person. And then someone finally realized, Hey, we didn't get an answer to actually what he said. So, you know, I think that Mark Carney is in control of his own situations that may come off a little bit assholery uh when it comes to the actual uh communications with the media but i think it's really solid because um he's giving solid answers he's giving kind of yes no direct answers that are are hard to misinterpret and difficult to to take and and rebelize you know turn into a true north quote or something along there's
Zain
12:16
there's there's something here and at least i'd probably get your expertise on this than than mine but i'll give you i'll give you guys a premise to to chew on, which is unlike what
Zain
12:25
what maybe modern day media training would say, which is take the key message, package it and take it. It seems like he's almost thinking about the answer in the moment, which is really a high wire act. Unless you're someone like him who has
Zain
12:40
has run a lot of his campaign, and I'm not saying he's devoid of politics. That's not what I'm saying at all, but run a lot of his campaign based on I'm
Zain
12:48
I'm just going to make the call.
Zain
12:50
What I feel is the policy. What's what I intellectualize is the outcome. We're also hearing about this as it relates to everything from his priority set, even including that press conference last week, talking to some high level liberals. Their answer was, yeah, thanks for the congrats, man. But that was just Mark Carney. Right. Like, thanks. But like he literally has an agenda of what he wants to do. He's telling you in his own words. And I feel like he treats the media in the same way. it's not over packaged it's not over rehearsed it's very much um kind of i'm thinking in the moment because i care and it's you know carter like when you're free to kind of just respond and the stakes are relatively low it feels like that's what he's doing i think there is it could be a bit gaff prone when when like he's got a bit of a a bit of a track record and there's things in motion and timelines aren't being met and all that sort of stuff happens but for the moment it's not not only refreshing, it's novel. And I want to make sure we separate what's politically refreshing, but with what's also politically novel, because we've had 10 years of Trudeau and we've had a half a decade of Polyev, two very different communication styles from Carney. So
Annalise
13:57
So you think it works in the presence of media? Yeah, I think
Zain
14:01
think it works for now. And I think ultimately what will end up happening, just like in politics, where your circle of trusted advisors starts big and then ends narrow, narrow you you start becoming more risk mitigating and you start becoming more defensive uh as your track record builds because you're trying to protect something behind you not just run free with what's ahead of you and he's got the flexibility to to say no to things to do one word answers to do all these novel communication things uh and lay out priorities but at some point they're going to be late on something they're going to poorly execute something it just happens it's not because mark carney's not good at what he does it's because it's government and it's a a slow moving machine, regardless of your ambitions as a prime minister, as a singular dude or person. And so I suspect a more defensive communication style that's going to come. But I think right now what we're seeing is the right strategy combined with novelty. Carter,
Annalise
14:52
Carter, do you think it works? Because that was interesting to me about today was so much focus, obviously, on the meeting with Trump, but then the speaking to the media after. And to Zane's point, it is new. It is novel. It's a very different way of interacting and speaking to media than we've seen for the past decades.
Carter
15:08
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think that it does work. And again, I'll take Zane's point that it is novel. That's an excellent point. It is new. It is unique.
Carter
15:19
But more than that, I think it is effective as well. I mean, so much of media relations right now is being succinct, being able to get your message across in as few words as possible. And with
Carter
15:35
with that, I'll stop.
Annalise
15:39
at you that look look at you demonstrating what you're saying what about in zine you brought it up but the line and i saw this it looked like it was getting a lot of coverage the real estate one um
Annalise
15:49
um like yeah we're in the white house right now not for sale talk to the owners of canada blah blah blah do
Annalise
15:56
do you guys think that's a in in zine maybe you can speak to this if you if you know mark uh super well but like is that the sort of thing that you have a The best, actually. Yeah, so well. And
Zain
16:06
And I'm going to just get, just
Zain
16:07
everyone can know him as well, here's his phone number, plus 4-4. Ha-ha.
Zain
16:11
Okay, I'll keep the rest. Beep that. Go
Annalise
16:13
Go ahead. Keep the rest in.
Annalise
16:15
Like, do you, there's certain politicians or certain people that you would practice those lines with beforehand, you know? But then it's that delivery of trying to not make it rehearsed. To your point, the way he brought it up, the way he said it, it just seemed natural. People liked it. But is
Annalise
16:31
is there a lot of strategy
Annalise
16:34
strategy and prep that goes into that one line and wanting that to be in the leads and in the headlines?
Zain
16:41
I think yes and yes. I'd be surprised if there was no prep on it. I think something like that starts with the seed of an answer. And, of course, there's multiple ways of doing it. You saw that in the press conference afterwards where he was at the Canadian embassy answering a similar question. He asserted that in a much more aggressive, assertive tone to create a secondary clip of it. But in the moment when you're sitting beside the president in and being hosted, he was also Canadian polite and he used something. And I think, you know, what really gave him the, um,
Zain
17:15
um, the go ahead to keep going was that in, within the first second of saying it, Trump agreed. And, and you could almost see that Trump, like the respect kind of seemed real. I'm really curious
Zain
17:26
Carter. It seemed like it was almost like not even respect. It was like, I'm kind of jealous of this guy. I don't want to disappoint this guy. Like Trump is a child, right? Yeah. And Mark Carney is like a serious person. Like he's actually what a successful business person looks like in some ways, right? Right. Trump is not like a real lucky loser. Trump is not a successful business person. He's not. You know, he was handed an opportunity and he squandered
Zain
17:47
squandered that opportunity. And everything else since then has been made out of fairy dust and the apprentice to create this image of Donald Trump is the short version of it. But there is a level of respect that Trump had to him where he agreed within the first couple of seconds, which allowed Carney to kind of very loosely kind of continue that analogy. I've been in situations where, even if the politician is a masterful communicator, masterful communications and organic communications are two very different things, right? And this goes back to a world that Carter and I love deeply, which is the world of comedy. Most people come to watch a standup comedian perform their hour knowing fully that this hour has been performed at local theaters or comedy clubs near you, but they want to feel like they're hearing it from the first time stream of consciousness, like they just came up with it. In fact, the art form doesn't work. It doesn't feel natural. It doesn't feel connective. It doesn't feel like we're sharing a common experience if they don't have that underlying foundation of ease, of organic, of I just came up with this sort of thing.
Zain
18:56
Everyone knows that they didn't.
Zain
18:58
And I think this press conference has that parallel. That line has that parallel, which is that everyone knows, ourselves included, that the team prepped a version for him. But what worked in that moment was two elements. Number one, he picked up on the real estate side. And you saw how assertively Carney was to get in on there. Because
Zain
19:18
Because I think he saw an opportunity to be like, I'm going to make mention of it now. I'm going to talk about 51st State over and over, but now's the time. You mentioned real estate. You mentioned the border. The team had probably also, Team Carney, probably also said every time Trump mentions the imaginary line, he goes right into this thing and that's where you get in. And so I do think this was rehearsed. I do think that was put together. But the execution on his part, the way he kind of spaced it, the way he looked up, the way he kept going once Trump said yes, the way he added examples, not just well scripted, well executed. So it's a very long way to say yes, which I believe is what this podcast is about, is saying very simple, short things in extremely long ways. Is that the message to take, Carter? I believe it is.
Zain
20:02
think that was very clippable, my piece. I think we should clip it. That
Carter
20:05
That was perfect. I heard at least four 30-second spots in there. Listen,
Zain
20:09
Listen, I'm trying to create content for the pod. That's what I'm up to. The
Annalise
20:15
It's timely, Zane, because my sister, who's not a frequent listener, listened to your last episode, which people have been giving rave reviews, and her feedback was, it was too long.
Zain
20:28
was her feedback. Last
Annalise
20:29
Last episode, though, people love it. The Corey Hogan episode, people are into it. Carter, how do you prepare for something like this? To your point, Trump's a lunatic, and this could have gone very, very differently, even to the point that a few minutes before the meeting started, he's posting on Truth Social. about this
Annalise
20:45
this and that and argy-bargy, all caps, like that type of thing. How do you prepare for meetings
Annalise
20:52
meetings with very unpredictable people?
Carter
20:56
Well, I mean, I come into the podcast every time wondering what exactly is going to happen. And
Carter
21:02
And I never know. No,
Carter
21:04
No, I think that when you're going into a meeting, I used to work for a very eccentric fella.
Carter
21:11
I'm not going to name names. But when I'm working with this eccentric fellow, you never knew where you were going to go. You never knew what the meeting was going to be like.
Zain
21:19
Do I know this eccentric fellow? Cora's not
Annalise
21:21
not here to tell you not to name him, so you can name him, Carter. I'm
Zain
21:24
I'm guessing one person.
Carter
21:26
No, you're not guessing.
Zain
21:28
I'm not live. I'm not live. Yeah, you know exactly
Carter
21:30
exactly who it is.
Zain
21:31
Okay, I'm just kidding. We're going to telepathically say the name to each other right now. No, we're not going to do
Carter
21:35
do that. No, telepathically. Do you know telepathically means... Not out loud, Carter. Okay,
Zain
21:39
Okay, I got it. No, I got it. I totally got it. I know who you are. you are he
Zain
21:41
he was such a fucking nut job oh my god anyways
Carter
21:45
anyways in so doing uh every time i go into the meeting i never knew where it was going to go and that
Carter
21:50
that was it on some levels it's an entertaining challenge because you just never know what's going to happen you can be as prepared as you want to be but really what you've got to be is is like when you're in sport and you're doing sports and you're in the moment and you can and all you're doing is responding to the stimuli that are around you that's what mark carney was doing today he was in the moment he was responding to the stimuli that was around him zane's
Carter
22:14
zane's made a good point about prep but really this is more than just prep this is the ability to hang out with people who are a little bit crazy and i would argue that almost all billionaires are a little bit crazy because
Carter
22:26
because you have to be a little bit maybe maybe
Zain
22:27
maybe he's had batting practice on this already right
Carter
22:29
right i think that he's he's gone around a few times on dealing with some uniquely eccentric individuals.
Annalise
22:39
What about body language, Zane, in terms of the prep? Do you thought he nailed it there? He was good there?
Annalise
22:47
Yeah, I think so.
Zain
22:47
so. I mean, the body language for me was really all about the facial expressions. And Mark Carney, like I said, does not have a great poker face. You know, he really doesn't. So even when Trump was talking about all the gold that now the Oval Office has, as Carney was like near laughter, which made me laugh because I was like, that is so fucking crazy. Trump is like, welcome to the Oval Office. We've now got gold. And Carney's like, uh-huh. And he's just like trying not to laugh. I heard from someone who was inside the room that the Canadian delegation was like stone cold the whole time. And I feel like they were all trained to like be stone cold the entire time, including Carney. But I think his body language is fine. His cadence was fine. His tone was fine. Um, he was very much in the reaction mode, right? He had a couple of things to say. He picked his spots. He hits solid signals. I think on the, on the, um, the real estate line, he, he hit the home run on that one. Um, but everything else was body language. How do you sit there for a seven minute monologue about 10 topics of
Zain
23:52
which three of them, the president can refer to you on, but not give you a chance to speak on, but make sure you're paying fucking attention because if you're caught nodding to the wrong shit that's that's the meaning like so the body language i think was so much more important arguably than the scripted line or the reasserting canadian sovereignty because you could be caught sleeping for just a moment and trump moves on to the next topic and and you know doesn't give you a chance and he may not even want you to audibly respond but you're caught like smiling agreeing whatever that becomes comes a story and he did not make that a story and i know that seems extremely small but the stakes and the pumping up of the stakes are so high um that i think that was also a good job on his part it's
Annalise
24:35
it's like it's wild times that we're in that that's the bar right that this is a meeting between two world leaders and like that that body language piece is a huge a huge part of it but
Carter
24:46
hasn't it always been like
Zain
24:47
when you think back
Zain
24:48
we've also seen a crazy version of this meeting yeah you I mean, mere months ago. I think that also, like, in the same setting, same location, everything, we've seen what the worst, arguably, version of this meeting can look like.
Annalise
24:59
Well, is that part of the prep? And I think you mentioned the same, but that low expectations to go into it, right? Setting the stage for people to have those low expectations so that when you don't screw up, it's the 96% that's doing good. I
Zain
25:13
I think the Carney expectations where he where he really nailed it was the expectations of results today. Right.
Zain
25:19
Right. Because the conservatives could have driven the agenda despite kind of being in their own turmoil. They could have driven the agenda saying Mark Carney is going to if Mark Carney does not cancel the tariff deal on Tuesday when he goes, that's a major fuck up. And he by doing that press conference Friday, setting the stakes that no solutions will be had here. And this will take as long as it takes and not a day longer. I
Zain
25:43
I think that was the proper setting of the stakes. I still think the stakes were extremely high on all things, body language, statement, all that sort of stuff in the room over those 30 minutes.
Carter
25:53
Carter, what do you think? Go ahead. Do you think that when Donald Trump gets briefed, one of the things his aides tell him is the net worth of the individual that he's talking to?
Carter
26:04
What's Zelensky's net worth? $15, $20? It's not going to be great. Right. But what's Mark Carney's net worth? X, right? X is big.
Carter
26:17
And do you think that that changes the way that the interaction occurs? Because I think that it changes the interaction. I think that Mark Carney walks into that room with such a leg up on Justin Trudeau, with such a leg up on Zelensky, with such a leg up on Macron.
Annalise
26:33
So you just think the respect is there off the bat in a way that it's not for others? I
Carter
26:38
I think that Donald Trump respects money because he equates money with power.
Carter
26:43
And so, you know, that's why I think he likes dictators because dictators make themselves rich. Right. That, you know, the the the using the
Carter
26:55
the state to power the individual and to to profit the individual is always seen as being beneficial
Carter
27:02
beneficial by Donald Trump. And here's Mark Carney walking in. He's already used the system, if you will, to make himself successful.
Carter
27:12
successful. And I think that Donald Trump values that. I think that that's one of the reasons that the meeting went so well. Well, I mean, did Mark Carney bring a different message than Justin Trudeau? No.
Carter
27:24
Or a different message than Chrystia Freeland brought?
Carter
27:30
he is a different messenger.
Carter
27:32
And that different messenger is wrapped up in hundred, hundred, hundred dollar bills.
Zain
27:40
What the fuck was that last part? We got a clip that Carter
Annalise
27:43
Carter trying to sound young and hip. That went very
Zain
27:48
Do you want to do it again? Yeah, do it again, Carly. Add a bit more bars so we can make the clip really, really take off. No, it's going to
Carter
27:54
to come out like much worse.
Zain
27:58
Yeah, and a little bit more
Carter
28:01
Only because you make it racist, Zane. Only because you make it racist. I don't see race.
Carter
28:06
I don't see a car.
Annalise
28:06
Last question on this. Is there anything, there was criticism that he didn't speak enough, Zane. You kind of addressed that, that it was a good amount. But for Carter, for your 96 to get to 100 or Zane, your A to get to an A plus, Was there anything tangible
Annalise
28:19
tangible that could have been done differently? And maybe the answer is no, because you didn't want the first one to be like too perfect because there will be more meetings.
Zain
28:31
Yeah, from my perspective,
Zain
28:32
perspective, I think ordering was also a matter of what came first. If they had had their meeting first and this second, then I think he could have spoken up more. Both guys came into this pretty cold. Now, Trump is never cold. He could just walk in and just fucking start, you know, talking about inane bullshit, you know, at any point, including Obama's library being a disaster and
Zain
28:54
and the Trump offering him to fix it.
Zain
28:57
But from Carney's perspective, you've got one choice. You've got a couple of choices. You could pick your spots where you know you can make the points that you need to, or you could start poking in on everything. And you've actually seen versions of this. Macron and Starmer jumped in a lot more. But the message that they were trying to bring, other
Zain
29:20
other than making sure that Trump heard about Ukraine and that their solidarity with Ukraine, was less significant and less existential than what we were trying to prevent.
Zain
29:32
it annexation tariffs and a renewed partnership and so i think he chose the right spots to to hit the the the the the right notes rather than swinging for everything carter
Annalise
29:43
carter what could you know what really bothered
Carter
29:46
and i i know that he had to do this but this is what bothered me transformational
Zain
29:52
yeah me too drove
Carter
29:52
drove me crazy um
Carter
29:54
um i understand why he did it i understand and then to say you know i've been elected to do the same He has absolutely not been elected to do the same type of thing in Canada. It's in fact the opposite. We want to be protected from the transformational change that's happening in the United States. I really disliked that. I understand why he did it. I would not have counseled him not to do it. But I found it very off-putting from my individual point of view. Was
Annalise
30:26
Was there a different way he could have done it, like that he could have gotten the same point
Annalise
30:30
point across but not used? Like, do you have a better way he could have done it? I feel like he has to do it.
Carter
30:37
I think you could have said he's a once-in-a-generation president.
Zain
30:41
Yeah, you know, for me, I agree with Carla. The reason it bothered me is because it is sucking up to
Zain
30:48
Trump, obviously, and it's clear and it's on the front end. And it's literally what the white house used in the, they literally have a montage of images with
Zain
30:55
with that quote from, from Carney underneath it.
Zain
30:59
I also think if I'm giving Carney a bit of grace, um,
Zain
31:03
um, transformational can also be a pretty neutral term, kind
Zain
31:09
kind of like consequential and generational. they they now
Zain
31:15
now i don't think anyone it
Zain
31:17
it wouldn't be the word of preference to use for mussolini but
Zain
31:21
but he was transformational pol
Zain
31:26
other words for sure maybe 20 of them before transformational idiom mean transformational
Zain
31:34
so listen i i actually
Zain
31:38
hitler stalin i mean let's go let's bring him on but but but but and then this might be this might be trying to defend him too much uh a i believe he had to do it the meeting could not have diffused the 51st state stuff without that tone and tenor um i think they probably made that calculation very early and that was a very scripted piece like and that looked and sounded very scripted which i think is just
Zain
32:00
just fine i also think the word choice was deliberate um
Zain
32:03
um and and And you could see that as such.
Annalise
32:06
Okay. Let's leave that one there, guys. Move on to our next segment. Let's talk about Alberta. Oh, dear. Do we
Annalise
32:15
The elephant in the room, Stephen Carter.
Carter
32:16
Carter. Or British Columbia. We're talking about
Zain
32:17
about our transformational leader, Danielle Smith. Yeah. It's a good segue, right? You may have heard of her.
Annalise
32:23
Guys, yesterday, Monday, she did this address to Albertans, 18 minutes, 3 p.m. television address. Followed that up to date. They stayed in the headlines here with the presser with journalists, took questions from journalists.
Annalise
32:39
Daniel Smith, the premier of Alberta, says she does not support Alberta separating, but she supports any citizen-led petition that gets the 177,000 signatures required to trigger a petition in, I think it's 121 days. They've got less
Annalise
32:54
less signatures, more days because of Bill 54.
Annalise
32:58
In the address yesterday, she had a list of demands for Carney. She's going to tour the province with an Alberta Next panel. Lots going on here. Stephen Carter, why
Annalise
33:07
why is she doing this?
Carter
33:10
Why is she doing this? It's an easy way to score points. With who, her base? Yeah, I think, well, part of her base. There is a group of people for whom separation is valuable. I've numbered it around 250,000 people in the province of Alberta. Alberta, I, you know, it polls somewhere around 20%, which is, but I think that that's people who just are angry saying these things who haven't really thought through separation. But there's a small group of people who've thought through separation and who think it's a really good idea. And Danielle Smith has decided to, through her own leadership challenges and inabilities, um she has chosen to put herself in a position where she uh she gets to uh use this
Carter
34:01
weapon against the uh against the federal government the same way that she perceives the way that quebec used the weapon of separation to get whatever it wanted uh so it's kind of like watching a uh you
Carter
34:15
you know a grade school school student try and figure out how to do debating They can't really do it, so they just get loud. And this is the equivalent of Danielle Smith being unable to communicate effectively and get what she wants. So she's just decided to throw separation into it. And for her to say that she doesn't support separation when she's taking all of this effort, she's
Carter
34:39
she's the one who lowered the threshold. She's the one who extended the number of days. she's the one who's making it easier for a citizen-led referendum uh that uh could cost us dearly uh even the thought of of separation just the thought of separation is going to cost us jobs it's going to cost us in the economy and she should know that if she has any degree of awareness of what happens in the rest of the world when people start musing about leaving their their home home countries. Zane brought up a great example today of Brexit. The foolish meanderings of a few people suddenly turns into a mantra for British people who think that they're getting pissed
Carter
35:25
pissed on, and it winds up destroying their economy for what will be a generation.
Carter
35:31
That is just a full self-owned. And it is such a useful parallel to the paradigm that Danielle
Carter
35:40
Danielle Smith is creating for herself. And I think that there's only one explanation for it, and it's that she's just not intellectually capable of understanding the risks and the tenuous reward that she's playing with when she plays with this type of ammunition.
Annalise
35:57
Zane, do you agree? I mean, we've talked about wrote before on the show she's strategically smart she thinks ahead what what is she trying to accomplish i
Zain
36:07
don't know if it's anything she's particularly trying to accomplish other
Zain
36:11
other than i i read it a bit differently like i think carter's points are true but
Zain
36:18
but i do think that separatism
Zain
36:21
separatism is always a card she had to play if she knew the other issues were
Carter
36:30
were going to be damning to her and
Zain
36:32
and i do think that this is as much of a big fucking channel changer than it is and then it also is everything carter's mentioned there
Zain
36:40
there is something to be said about you know while she's doing okay in the polls right now at least from the numbers that we have seen that
Zain
36:47
that the the scandal The scandal on health care, the scandal on corruption should and could be government ending scandals. And frankly, I think, Carter, if they were 10 years ago, they would be. Yeah,
Carter
36:58
Yeah, for sure. Right?
Zain
36:59
Right? Like, these would
Carter
36:59
would be scandals that would take
Zain
37:00
take down a government. The
Zain
37:03
The fact is, most people don't even know about the recent developments about the justice minister's relationship, personal relationship with this guy. Like, there's so many things that are problem defining. fighting so the cynical part of me thinks separatism was always a card she could play if there was something coming down the pipeline that would be a big fuck you and and if she wanted to just get off the page in addition to weaponizing
Zain
37:26
weaponizing it obviously um creating and
Zain
37:31
and rallying her base having plausible deniability built in which i think she's trying to do which is complete fucking bullshit you
Zain
37:40
if things go badly she could always be like oh i was just respecting democracy i think
Zain
37:43
think that's what i was doing the whole time um
Zain
37:47
avoiding accountability in that way and then i think there's also an element of like keeping opponents off balance right keeping the ndp off balance as they try to chase down the corrupt care angle on health care what part of their resources do they devote to separatism uh what part of it is shadow boxing on their part are they spread too thin around two issues um one of which she may never get the blame on so it's one of those things where I think she's obviously trying to be strategic but I do, like, like Carter feel like there's a chance she may have just fucking overplayed her hand, like this is a huge problem for Pierre-Paul Evan, puts him in a terrible position, likely turns a lot of the CPC against her even locally, in Alberta and
Zain
38:32
the vast majority of Albertans still oppose this we may have hit a new high water mark, nearly 60, like nearly 65% of people opposing this it's a 30-ish uh for it um
Zain
38:43
um but that's still relatively low my
Zain
38:46
my concern for her though is exactly what i mentioned today and and when we were doing our our our lunch show carter which is
Zain
38:53
we have seen and we know people and we might be those people that can turn a 35 issue into 50 plus one issue yeah
Zain
39:01
brexit is a great example there
Zain
39:03
there were no real geniuses behind brexit there There was just a really weak opposition proposing it, combating it, and they didn't necessarily have, it's not that they were inherently weak. They were either being like, there's no way this is a real thing, and or they didn't have a great singular oppositional point versus the pro-Brexit side chose a one singular, we'll put money back in your pocket for healthcare. Remember those fucking buses? That's
Zain
39:31
That's all they said. That was literally all you get from Brexit. it and separatism
Zain
39:34
separatism separatism as we talk about it right now is this big insane cloud but what happens if we boil down separatism
Zain
39:41
separatism to one singular easy to digest data point and and and the opposition comes with 55 reasons to not separate and they other and the separatism side has one easily digestible point that is a reality that takes a 35 point issue and makes it a 50 plus one issue and that's where i think she may have fucking overplayed her and and flirting with real fire here exactly
Carter
40:04
exactly but here's here's the other thing though zane you're forgetting that there was also another thing that they didn't
Carter
40:10
didn't talk about and didn't put on buses but certainly was one of the brexit pieces and that is you won't have to deal with any more immigrants right no more polish people coming in and taking your jobs no more no more you know immigrants
Carter
40:23
immigrants from uh south asia or no don't worry immigrants from asia
Carter
40:28
right like the racism that was the the casual racism that under underpinned this and this is one of the things that underpins our separatist thing is if the french could do it if the quebeckers could do it then fuck it we're doing it too right
Carter
40:43
right and it's got this kind of you know they're getting one over on us because we send them all of our money for transfer payments which has been the lie of the of the last 30 years that the client started to tell us and we've all bought into we are just as guilty of uh or we we do transfers in alberta the exact same fashion that there's transfers that are done in uh in can in canada people
Carter
41:08
people who make more money pay more money and
Carter
41:10
and people who make less money pay less money and we all agree with those principles and yet when
Carter
41:15
when it comes to the federal scene oh man fuck those guys in quebec The average income is what? $80,000 in Quebec. It's $120,000 here. Oh, fuck them.
Zain
41:27
But let's be clear, right?
Carter
41:28
right? My numbers are wrong
Zain
41:29
wrong on that, by the
Carter
41:29
the way. There is a historical precedent
Zain
41:34
You can sell big, crazy, low-polling things by
Zain
41:39
by placing them into a small, simple nugget.
Zain
41:44
And that's what could happen here. This is why I think she's really playing with fire. because
Zain
41:48
because the threat first let's talk about the threshold carter 177 000 in 120 days doable like actually doable if you're organized doable it
Carter
41:57
it it's it's tricky but it certainly could be done what you do is you pre-organize uh
Carter
42:02
uh you know and you make sure that you have all your people ready to go and the
Zain
42:05
the clock starts and then you
Carter
42:06
you can do all the stuff
Zain
42:08
not like we've done it but like when you look at the math and you look at the organization and if there is tacit consent Consent by the premier, which I classify this week as being doable. Totally. Because let's be clear what she said. I will. I've reduced the bar and I'll take this shit seriously and I'll put it as a referendum.
Zain
42:29
tacit consent. If I'm being charitable, which I am. But we've seen this across the world. Trump is an example of this. Trump re-election is an example of this. All the crazy stuff right now that we are seeing, no one really voted for. but it was a price of eggs and and and future opportunity dialing down something crazy in the crazy package and selling a small simple version of it or a small simple subset of it same with like when india demonetized their money do you guys remember this they literally position as as government corruption as fighting back against black money and they just you know invalidated currency notes for people. And we see this in governance. We see this in elections. And we've seen it very recently. People will buy a broader crazy package, a broader package of things that they do not like if it includes one thing that they really do like. And my worry is that the separatists find that one thing. And my worry is that the opposition is saying all of the reasons against it versus fighting it on that one thing. The separatism fight in Alberta, should it happen, may be on something entirely unrelated or directly not related to separatism. That is my prediction. It will be a ballot box question about it, but it will be a debate about something like healthcare. It will be a debate about something like economic upside for youth or economic diversification. They'll find a 70-30 issue to fight the 30-70 issue, which is separatism. That is how they They will sell this thing. And that is why Daniel Smith, am I wrong, Carter? That is why Daniel Smith has proposed something as crazy because there is a pathway for this. And she may have actually overplayed her hand in this regard in terms of potentially being a co-author of this outcome.
Annalise
44:19
Okay, lots to go into, but just take one step back. Why now? Like you talked about the channel change and the distraction for the opposition. Lots going on right now. Why coming out so hot right now? Carnies, your thoughts
Annalise
44:31
thoughts on that? Corey Hogan.
Carter
44:34
Corey Hogan and Mark Carney.
Zain
44:36
Carney. I want Carter to explore the Corey Hogan bit just a bit more. Yeah,
Carter
44:40
get into it. Corey Hogan won.
Zain
44:42
Corey Hogan won, and he's going to be our minister of... Of
Carter
44:43
Of what? It's going to be a tough call on that. You know, I wouldn't want to be in the room trying to pick that cabinet. It's tough. It's hard to pick these cabinets, you know? They're tricky little devils.
Zain
45:00
Don't let him off the hook.
Carter
45:01
I'm not going to... He's
Annalise
45:03
Just imagine what Corey has said to him about not ruining his chances. Carter, why you were nodding or shaking your head, you were doing something there. The timing now is just because of Carney. She's coming in, coming in hot. She had
Carter
45:19
had Trudeau exactly where she wanted him. She does not have Mark Carney where she wants him. and so she has just decided to ramp up the rhetoric one more level and really push as hard as she could in order to try and get whatever concessions she can uh keep in mind that essentially this whole separatism argument is wrapped in a list of eight or nine big demands um
Carter
45:42
know access to tidewater uh ports you know alberta and saskatchewan don't have access to tidewater ports well what are you gonna do dig a fucking ditch like we don't have access to ports like Like, that's just our reality. But she wants access to ports, unfettered access to ports. What else does she want, Zane? I'm trying to remember the other. Oh,
Zain
46:02
Let me look it up. I have it here. But
Carter
46:05
But these demands, you
Carter
46:08
you know, essentially eliminate the cap on carbon, eliminate all the carbon taxes. So
Zain
46:15
So there's equalization. There's a repeal of environmental legislation and the tanker ban, rollback of clean electricity, consultation export tariffs. respecting indigenous treaty rights okay yeah creation of a negotiating team and a sovereignty panel yeah
Zain
46:29
no no government in the right mind is going to give her most of this yeah
Carter
46:32
yeah i mean okay or
Carter
46:34
it's not even in their power to give in in some regards like this is this is a lunatic who's who has uh clearly lost her ability to to figure out what proper negotiating stance is and has decided to hold the federal government hostage and then has done so with the gun of separation held at her own head.
Annalise
46:57
So play it out, though. So she said this. I mean, she said today, I don't support this, but I support the referendum.
Zain
47:04
That is such bullshit. This
Carter
47:05
This is David Cameron saying he doesn't support Brexit, but bringing it up, giving it legs and allowing it to walk all over him and then saying at the end of it, well, I guess I have to resign. You fucking idiot. But, you know, Preston Manning saying the West wants in and in so doing, isolating the West for a generation. This is these these people don't understand the tools with which they are playing because they're intellectually unable to. And each one of them winds up getting shot in the foot or in some cases like David Cameron and Preston Manning shot right in the fucking noggin.
Annalise
47:42
OK, thanks, Carter. But play, play, play it out. it's it's it's out there it's out there she's she's lit the fire under people to go you know as zane says start doing the pre-planning have your date try for the 170 70 what clearly
Annalise
47:57
clearly very dangerous very concerning for a lot of people but to zane's point what
Annalise
48:02
what does the side that says we don't want to separate what should they be doing right now we
Carter
48:08
we should organize our own petition
Annalise
48:10
Talk to me, walk me through it. So
Carter
48:13
80% of a separate, you know, we should organize our own petition for something, right?
Carter
48:18
And take the wind right out of them.
Carter
48:20
Because it doesn't even matter if the petition is successful. If the petition isn't successful, it just becomes another example of how hard it is to do these things. And we can actually get a citizen-led referendum on something that actually matters, right? We could instill municipal rights or we We can instill a health funding guarantee. We could do something around post-secondary education. We could do something around motherhood and apple pie if we wanted to that would take the wind right out of the separatism.
Carter
48:53
You know, like one of the things we could do is that every lottery dollar goes to health care or every dollar of royalties goes into the Alberta Savings Trust Fund. whatever else that we wanted to do. But there's something out there that would ultimately take the wind out of the separatist's ability to sign a petition because people wouldn't know what petition we're doing. Which
Carter
49:19
Which petition is this? What's going on? Is this the healthcare petition? Let me sign the healthcare petition.
Zain
49:25
Right? I have a slight, I agree with Carter that a counter petition allows activity to happen and potentially puncture the balloon. I also think there's a more head-on way to do it. which is to have people like Carter and I not do it.
Zain
49:38
And what I mean by that, and this goes back to something being like, it matters who your opponents are. If the natural opponent on this are the NDP,
Zain
49:46
this is not a winner for the NDP in a head-to-head, in a head-to-head, in the sense that they can't be the natural opponents.
Zain
49:55
Carter, you almost want to have a scenario where the natural opponents are conservatives.
Zain
50:01
Yeah. You want this. Monty
Zain
50:02
Monty Soder finds his
Zain
50:05
You literally be like, Jason Kenney, here are the keys. Here's the economic and business leaders. Here's the economic leaders of the province of Western Canada. Here's former conservatives, right? You actually want to be really careful who forms the opposition here.
Zain
50:25
And in some ways, if
Zain
50:27
if this can be a battle of conservatism, bastardize versus not, which is not a charitable way of putting it, That is actually what leads to potential success here. If this becomes a bunch of us, Annalise, Calgary Confederation latte-sipping fucking losers, as
Zain
50:41
as they would call us, right? Corey Hogan voters, as they would call us.
Zain
50:46
That's good. It's exciting. It's a fundraising opportunity for the Alberta NDP. But if they're the natural opponents of it, I'm not sure this gets the legs that it needs, even if it's a 35% issue today, 25% issue today.
Annalise
50:58
today. Yeah, because the right calm takes the 35% to 45% to 55%.
Zain
51:04
This has to be a unity, patriotic choice, conservative
Zain
51:09
conservative argument against separatists.
Annalise
51:11
separatists. But do you see... That's
Zain
51:12
That's how I see who needs the keys. But do
Annalise
51:15
do you see that happening? Because then you're getting a split amongst conservatives.
Zain
51:20
Well, I mean, that's an ideal situation also. So it's an ideal outcome, right, for for for someone like the New Democrats, both in terms of the short and the long term, depending on what the long term leads to from a partisan political party perspective. But I also think it's the right move. Like, I also think it's the right move. Now, is there appetite? Not my world. Like, Carter, you may have a better sense of if there's real appetite for the actual conservative crowd to mobilize against this.
Zain
51:49
But to me, I think the opponent here really, really matters. I
Carter
51:52
I mean, if you want to be if you want to be the next premier of the province, this is a great opportunity.
Carter
51:58
If you want to be the next conservative premier. Yeah.
Zain
52:00
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's
Carter
52:02
because if you're let's just pick on poor Michelle Rempel Gardner just because she's fun to pick on. She's got you know, she's not going anywhere in federal politics. If she wants to become the next premier of the province of Alberta, she picks this thing up and she starts organizing against it, doing
Carter
52:19
doing a counter uh
Carter
52:21
petition of some sort you know keep keep alberta in confederation or whatever the heck she chooses um she comes after it she starts to to fight against this thing she has she would be able to round up enough members that she would be able to defeat she could even organize against danielle smith at conventions she could organize against danielle smith in in a in
Carter
52:43
in a really dangerous way for danielle um and if she you know and it's there for her it's not like she's going to be in cabinet you know she's got another fucking four years sitting in the back benches why not take a shot at danielle smith danielle's now opened up her flank and by playing with the separatist stuff has probably pissed off a good half of the caucus a good half of the of the ucp base there
Zain
53:09
there has to be a signal that this is dividing conservatism and i think new democrats and others need to be able to take advantage of that opportunity because if if new democrats or progressives become the de facto opposition this has a chance of breaking on partisan lines even if the question is fucking separatism right like i have to qualify that even if the question is as insane as separatism people
Zain
53:31
can fall into their right left uh divides and and then we're in a coin flip yeah
Annalise
53:38
worse but do you think they do that like you you you know progressives i know of progressives do you think no
Zain
53:43
no i think they'll certainly take advantage of the moment and push back and like frame canada and i think they have to do all those things there's just also a natural
Zain
53:52
issue here that by being the singular opposition there's two issues by being the singular opposition and then comma being the singular opposition that has 50 reasons against it which is also a progressive thing that we do which is we find all of the robust reasons why biseparatism, and all of them valid and well-researched and brand
Zain
54:12
brand and economy and upside and confederation and whatever.
Zain
54:18
We can name 45 others.
Zain
54:21
That's the issue. One opponent, 50 arguments is bad. Multiple opponents, singular argument is good.
Annalise
54:30
worried should I be? How worried should people be? Listening to this, listening Listening to the remarks that were said yesterday, listening to there was one journalist asking a question today that really like was like, this is serious and this is what you're saying. You've been around a while. You're old. You've lived through lots of lots of different different things. Like how how worried are you about about this?
Carter
54:58
This could be the most devastating year in Alberta history. I'm
Zain
55:05
I'm with Carter. I'm not I'm
Zain
55:06
I'm not into alarmist bullshit because
Zain
55:08
because we do what we do uh
Zain
55:11
uh we can kind of see and frankly we've seen what we've seen you
Zain
55:17
can kind of see how this gets there so
Annalise
55:20
so what's for those people listening who are also worried it's not naturally going
Zain
55:24
going to go there yeah who
Annalise
55:25
who want it who you know who want to do some of who are riding the high of like cory hogan just getting elected right Feeling like they've done something, they've made change, and now we're dealing with this. I don't know, Carter, give me your grandfatherly
Carter
55:40
Here are my things that I would recommend. Wherever you are, get involved in your municipal politics. The municipalities are going to have a huge voice in any coming referendum or plebiscite. the um municipalities are organized
Carter
56:00
organized right now to fight back against the provincial government and they need to do that really hard if you're a conservative you've got to start or you know find your conservative leaders that are going to start standing up against this separatist threat um you know if you're if you're in daniel smith's cabinet now is the time to resign it
Carter
56:21
it is time to to find a fucking backbone and get out of her cabinet because it is um toxic and and it is threatening um our livelihood uh so so if you really profess to care about the economy which each of you does um today's the day to get out uh and then uh if you're uh jason kenney or michelle Delrimple Garner, start organizing.
Carter
56:48
Start organizing to take back Alberta the right way.
Carter
56:54
Because this is lunacy that's being proposed. And I'm disgusted by Danielle that she's taking us into this position. It's going to hurt for a very long time. But those are the things that I would do.
Annalise
57:09
Yeah, add in on that.
Zain
57:10
that. Yeah, I'll add another one because I almost made it seem like that there's no role for the NDP. In fact, let me be very crass about it. There is opportunity here for the NDP, not just if other conservatives start organizing against it and they get some of that drift. But also the NDP knows that any election, whether
Zain
57:27
whether under normal circumstances or tied to a
Zain
57:30
a referendum or on separation, is going to be coming back to the NDP's credibility on economic management. And
Zain
57:38
this is a time to talk about economic risk and stability. This
Zain
57:42
This is a time to take leadership on that. While one does not care about that, you actually do. You
Zain
57:48
You care about the issues people care about. You're still the party driving the day-to-day issues. Economic management, economic risk, economic stability, etc. et cetera. You're kind of borrowing a bit from the Carney playbook. You're not wearing any of the liberal red, but you're talking about those things. You're also building strange coalitions yourself. This is a time where this question has an opportunity where handholding between mainstream conservatives and center left Alberta New Democrats is possible.
Zain
58:17
And for the sake of the province, there is opportunity there. So if folks are looking at where they're contributing their time energy and resources the alberta ndp do absolutely have a role i just and i think a very significant one that helps both their electoral opportunity because it's to be clear this is not like even though carter and i are concerned about this it's not a natural winner right like to be clear it will take some molding it'll take some opportunity but we we can see the dots on the board in terms of what those look like the ndp still have the better argument here they still have the canadian unification argument they have opportunity to help their future selves here they have an opportunity to build that broad-based coalition to hold hands with folks that would not necessarily be in the tent and use and look at that as a good thing and i think that's an opportunity for folks to say if you were had any fucking doubt in your mind and
Zain
59:03
and this is my most partisan thing i'll say on this episode which of the two mainstream alberta political parties represents alberta here
Zain
59:10
here is your answer it's
Zain
59:12
literally right in front of you what
Annalise
59:14
what should probably have to and i say that in the sense that he will be running for honestly retire honestly
Zain
59:20
honestly retire at this point but
Annalise
59:21
but in in this issue he'll be running for a seat in alberta you mentioned his name um at the top when we were talking about this but what's strategically where where does this put him with conservatives um in alberta and smith well
Carter
59:37
he has the opportunity to actually run as a as a patriotic canadian and he does he he did that with saying, you know, Canada is worth fighting for, you know, stealing blatantly Corey Hogan's slogan. But nonetheless, you know, it's a tremendous opportunity for him to stand apart from Daniel Smith. There is no love lost between Daniel Smith's team and Pierre Polyev's team.
Carter
1:00:03
They are not the same team.
Carter
1:00:05
Pierre Polyev can, you know, I
Carter
1:00:08
I think really redefine what what conservatism looks and feels like in the province of Alberta by coming and trying to
Carter
1:00:15
to win Battle River. You know, it's going to be tricky. Yeah, really, really tough. There is
Zain
1:00:22
opportunity here for Polyev. There is massive political opportunity here.
Zain
1:00:26
As Houston and Ford have, well, if Houston and Ford have come out and told Polyev that he was not listening and he didn't consider their version of conservatism to be conservatism, i.e. progressive conservatism, there is an opportunity to quite literally take a fringe right-wing conservative movement in this province and say fuck you. Actually, you're not conservatism. And define yourself as Pierre Poliev as what you consider to be a more moderate approach. Look how moderate Jason Kenney is looking to us right now. Right? Seriously though. Jason Kenney was the most right-wing thing that happened to our province in, was it 2018? 2019? Holy George
Zain
1:01:04
Right. There's a George Bushification of Jason Kenney happening. Pierre Palliev has the opportunity to take a clear unifying stance against separatism, address the grievances of Albertans, but also know that, what, fuck you. If you give me 10 less points next election, I don't care. I'm taking a stance around what conservatism is. And frankly, he could be one of those leaders in
Zain
1:01:26
in that conservative movement against separation, whether it's with a bit of distance or, frankly, going right into it and understanding that growth in the 905, where he still has made growth but needs more, Growth in the Atlantic provinces, growth in British Columbia is not going to be giving this any oxygen whatsoever. And in fact, you will be rewarded if you cool down these separatist sentiments or quash them. To me, despite
Zain
1:01:53
despite him saying retired, there's political opportunity here. He could also be the guy that helps unify some of these business forces, positions these conservatives and position conservatives overall like this National Cohesion Party. So there's upside here for Polyev. The question is, per
Zain
1:02:09
per that video, has he thought, has he changed, has he been able to reflect fast enough? There are people in our lives politically that have thought, changed, reflected, moved on, been different versions of themselves. Is Pierre Polyev one of them?
Annalise
1:02:22
Good question. Lastly on this one, what about, and Carter, you mentioned kind of upcoming municipal elections across Alberta, but like mayors,
Annalise
1:02:29
mayors, municipalities, counselors, people who want to be in these positions, even like chambers of commerce and stuff. Like what should folks, and is it just coming out and saying this is nuts, this is dangerous, like trying to put a stop to it that way? What would you recommend for these folks? folks?
Carter
1:02:50
I think that you need to make this very clear and that the selfish nature of the voter needs to be understood. This is going to cost so much. And I'm not just talking money. I'm talking about international standing, the
Carter
1:03:04
the ability, you know, what would we, who
Carter
1:03:07
who would be our major trading partner? It would be Canada and the United States.
Carter
1:03:13
We'd be landlocked to get to anywhere else you know do you think canada is going to let us uh send our oil without putting a tariff on it um like why would they you know if we separated the the cost of separation for the average uh albertan would be staggering and i'd like to see every municipal politician come out and you know say that they're for canada i'd like to see every uh chamber of commerce say that they're for canada i'd like to explain to explain what their instant ramifications are and i'd like I'd like to see head offices start to say, you know what, if we're not, we are a Canadian company, we're not just an Alberta company.
Annalise
1:03:52
Okay. Zane, anything you'd like to see from those folks?
Zain
1:03:55
Carter covered it all.
Annalise
1:03:56
Okay. Guys, let's move into a quick lightning round. Zane, you mentioned it, the video, Polyo's walk and talk video.
Annalise
1:04:06
Does it strike the right tone? I
Zain
1:04:09
I want proof that it wasn't a green screen.
Zain
1:04:13
I want proof. Deliver
Annalise
1:04:14
Deliver proof. It doesn't strike the right tone. Is it a green screen? Love it. I've never
Carter
1:04:17
never loved it more. It's not a green screen. It's the best video in the history of mankind.
Annalise
1:04:22
Okay. Next lightning round question.
Annalise
1:04:25
The NDP, federal NDP, Carter. Now what for the federal NDP?
Carter
1:04:31
Close up shop. Don't even bother running a leadership.
Carter
1:04:35
Give the seven MPs to the liberal party so that they can have a majority government. Problem
Annalise
1:04:40
Problem solved. Bold words. Zane, what next for the federal NDP? It's just exactly
Zain
1:04:44
exactly the fucking opposite of what Carter said. Run a leadership race. Keep your MPs. Mark Carney, as much as I like him, and especially I'm very glad he's our prime minister for what I saw today, is going to leave room on the left and the center left. You have a place in this national conversation. It will take a while for you to get there. But we have seen with the right leader, anything can happen. Go leader shopping. Look far, look broad, even look outside. There's a world for the NDP in a big way. Carter doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about.
Annalise
1:05:16
Okay, on that note, that is a wrap on episode 1867 of The Strategist. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil. With you, as always, tonight was Stephen Carter and Zane Belcher.