Zain: This is The Strategist, episode 1848. My name is Zain Velji. With me as always, Stephen Carter and
Zain: and Corey Hogan. Guys, how are you?
Carter: Stephen Carter, live from Edmonton. Live from Edmonton. What am I doing in Edmonton?
Carter: No one cares. Yeah, no one cares.
Zain: No one cares. Yeah, no
Zain: one cares.
Zain: cares. Yeah, no one cares. Yeah.
Carter: Yeah.
Zain: Yeah, yeah. Key
Zain: Key and Bixby. Yeah, that's what I've heard. Hey, were you cutting the cord from teleprompters? Is that what was going on? Yeah,
Carter: that's what I've
Carter: that's what I was busy doing. Cutting the cord for teleprompters. I was like, you know what? This guy's too good to do this on a teleprompter. He's got to do it from notes. That's what I said. Read your French off the notes.
Zain: doing.
Corey: That's what I said. Read your French off the notes.
Corey: You were there for the Mark Carney launch. I
Carter: I was there for the – well, I'm actually not here for the Mark Carney launch. I'm here for another campaign. But I happened to be here for the Mark Carney launch as well.
Zain: Oh, okay.
Corey: okay. Well, you know,
Zain: know,
Corey: know, just for listeners – You were running crowd control for the Mark Carney campaign. Yeah, we could
Zain: Carney campaign. Yeah, we could see your bald head on CBC. We did see it. In fairness. In fairness to me, too many brown people on the stage. Any response? uh
Carter: no not
Carter: not too
Zain: too
Carter: too
Zain: too many brown people not
Carter: not too many brown people on the stage just the right um just
Zain: um just
Carter: just
Carter: just the right number of brown people on the stage too
Zain: too many brown people on the stage if you haven't seen the announcement go back and you'll be like wow that's too many it's
Carter: if you haven't seen
Carter: no such thing as too many um
Zain: there is such a thing as too many and uh the visual evidence of that is youtubing the mark carney campaign launch you
Carter: you know what youtube it and let's see if we can get as many views on the launch as we got on the Jon Stewart Daily Show appearance. Oh,
Zain: Oh, before he's doing weak. I like this. I like this, Carter. Is this how you're disclosing that you're officially on the campaign?
Carter: he's doing
Corey: doing weak.
Carter: weak.
Carter: Is this how you're
Carter: that you're officially on
Carter: Well, I mean, officially is an interesting phrase, although I understand that I was outed as the campaign manager for the Carter campaign on QR770 this morning, so my mom called, so that tells you how important I am. My mother
Carter: was like, hey, what the hell? And I had no idea I was the the campaign manager so yeah
Corey: yeah big
Carter: big pay raise big pay raise looking forward to to cashing those checks campaign
Carter: campaign manager you know what
Corey: campaign manager you know what i'm noticing you're not currently denying that you're the campaigner so we're gonna need you to say those words please put it down i
Zain: those words please put it down i am not the campaign manager then insert your title there on after crowd control slides banners whatever it actually is head of banners or whatever you know brayden
Carter: brayden cayley has the title of campaign interesting has the
Zain: the title but he does
Carter: the title but he does
Zain: interesting
Corey: interesting yeah
Zain: yeah
Corey: yeah very
Corey: good do you want to be fired for sure really appreciate are
Zain: want to
Carter: to be fired for
Zain: for
Carter: for
Zain: for sure
Carter: sure
Zain: sure really appreciate
Carter: appreciate
Zain: appreciate are
Corey: you gonna get fired from a campaign you don't work on i know right like i'm
Carter: on i know right like i'm gonna get fired from something that i'm volunteering what are they gonna do once they
Corey: what
Zain: what are they gonna do once they lose their guy who organizes brown people on stage listen
Zain: listen that was
Carter: was a lot of work
Zain: work i
Zain: i i could see it took a bit of work i think it was a little bit too heads-on because we could see all this so we could see this it's happening on the feed no
Carter: it was it was uh it was more than that it was it was it was spectacular is the whole thing was spectacular well
Zain: well from what i understand you're gonna actually know punjabi by the end of this campaign it feels like you're gonna be spending a lot of time uh in in places with uh seek organizing i
Carter: i have well if i didn't pick it up in surrey i'm not gonna pick it up anyway it's true it's
Zain: it's true
Corey: true i
Carter: i didn't pick it up there i'm not gonna pick it up i
Corey: didn't pick it
Corey: i just love this so many new rich storylines from the strategist universe that get like expanded today this is yeah this is good so happy about this this is
Carter: is yeah this is good so happy about this this is this was a big one this was uh this was fun that the carney campaign this was my daughter's first uh first foray i also saw her on tv campaigning it was very good
Zain: i also saw her on tv campaigning it was very good yeah
Carter: yeah she so she showed up on tv i told her if she showed up on tv she had to buy drinks but she went out with me and i don't drink so there's
Corey: there's
Zain: there's no so
Corey: so you bought drinks
Zain: drinks
Corey: drinks
Zain: drinks
Corey: drinks i
Carter: i bought i bought dinner yeah well
Corey: i
Zain: well that's good okay okay we'll get stephen carter's on the road he also doesn't have much time because it's almost his bedtime cory we're gonna do this as a two-parter We're going to spend 45 minutes right now, and you might be saying, well, are you going to put on a stopwatch? Say, no, I'm not. As soon as Stephen Carter fades and the answers don't make sense, we will stop. Good to stay. We're going to do the first 45 on Daniel Smith and the premieres, and we'll do the next 45 on Stephen Carter skating on ice around the Mark Carney launch. Oh, my God. Oh,
Zain: my God. Was that your reaction to how the launch went?
Carter: So amazing. Okay.
Carter: Okay. Good.
Zain: Good. good i'm glad you clarified with that with that second uh part of it was
Carter: i'm glad you clarified with that
Carter: of it was it was amazing you should have been there no
Carter: no no
Zain: no i needed
Carter: needed another guy to go up behind the stage you
Zain: you need another brown guy to go behind uh fantastic well um just make sure you bring back the sedatives i gave you um that
Zain: that you i assume gave to the candidate boy
Zain: jesus i
Corey: i i haven't seen this yet like i have not seen this you are really creating a picture for me this is exciting there's been two people that i've seen critiques
Zain: i i
Zain: seen this
Carter: this you are really
Zain: really
Carter: been two people that i've seen critiques from. One Zayn Velji and one Brian Topp. Those are the only two people I've seen critiques from.
Carter: Now,
Corey: Now, okay, well, this is not the Zayn Velji show. Are you already in a campaign bubble? Is that what I'm hearing? Yeah, that's
Carter: this
Zain: this
Zain: show. Are
Zain: Are you
Zain: hearing? Yeah,
Carter: Yeah, that's
Carter: that's basically it.
Zain: How you've only heard it from two people. I like Mark Carney a lot. I think his name is Mike Carney, according to what City TV did. Oh, really? Did they blow it? No. No, they went around asking Edmontonians with a picture of Mark Carney's face if anyone knew who this was and the closest they got was i think that's mike
Carter: How
Carter: Oh, really?
Zain: do you know how i know that it's because mark cardi asked city tv to relay that anecdote about him uh during the q and a were you not there did you get fired already i
Carter: fired already i don't
Zain: don't think you have a job the
Carter: think you have
Carter: the q and a i left i had to go do my other this is like fucking
Zain: had to go
Zain: is like fucking shutter island he thinks he's like on this campaign paid he's
Zain: traveling that's very
Corey: very good flight i appreciate that
Zain: flight i appreciate that
Corey: yeah living out
Zain: living out living out 2013 i've written a whole document this
Zain: this podcast is actually
Corey: this podcast is actually how he's gonna come to the realization at a certain point okay this
Corey: this is supposed to be
Zain: be for tomorrow i am
Carter: tomorrow i am campaign manager
Zain: definitely not entitled okay let's talk about danielle smith guys for our first segment Our first segment, Mrs. Smith goes to Panama. Guys, the first minister's meeting has happened. And it was interesting because going in, it was going to be telegraphed that this
Corey: segment Our
Zain: was going to be premiers only, that federal leadership was missing from this meeting. And yes, the prime minister convened the first minister's meeting. But at the end, the meeting ended with the prime minister in a press conference with a couple of his ministers, also the ambassador, all premiers, sans Daniel Smith, who did not show up, and I believe David Eby, who couldn't stay for the press conference. I might be wrong about that, but I'll find that out while we discuss. discuss uh but all of them including eb uh except smith signing this statement the joint statement that that comes out of the meeting cory daniel smith is taking a lot of heat for for putting alberta first for not putting canada first she's taking that heat from justin trudeau sharply today less sharply yesterday but she also took that heat very diplomatically from scott moe from from Doug Ford, certainly. And she seems to be taking it from the commentary class, the political class across the country as well. Let's get into this, you know, without bearing the lead. Was what Danielle Smith did
Corey: from justin
Corey: yesterday but
Zain: strategic from your perspective for the constituency that she's trying to represent Alberta? Do
Corey: I think it was strategic? It depends on what the goals of her strategy were. I would say that if the goals are what we would consider the conventional goals of a premier, which is supporting the economic growth and development of the country, or sorry, of the province over the long term within the country, then
Corey: then no, it was not strategic. And I ultimately worry that it's not just Danielle Smith, it's a lot of politicians in a lot of different contexts, but short-term thinking does seem to be ruling the day. It does feel like the other premiers got there faster and said, no, no, we can't screw around with this. United we stand, divided we fall. as Doug Ford said, and I mean, like, just a cliche for a reason, like, it's just absolutely accurate. But Danielle Smith wasn't willing to get there. And I do wonder how much of it actually is the consequence of her not being in the room. Like, it's interesting, like chicken or egg, right? She might want to be in the room, because this was her position. Did this end up being in her position because she wasn't in the room, you know, so it created a weird dynamic. She was almost like a spectator, the only Zoom participant. Other premiers were apparently cracking jokes. I guess Legault said at one point, like, is she calling in from Mar-a-Lago? You know, I was picked up by a very good joke, by the way, right? But yeah, she decided not to sign. It was wrapped in, I think, the grievance language that as Albertans, as Canadians, we're pretty familiar with. This idea that, oh, you're not being very nice to Alberta right now, I've got to protect our economic interests. But the context has changed and context is everything. Yes. And the context of fighting with Ottawa in normal times, I think we're used to. And all the other provinces in this case as well. Absolutely. I mean, all the other provinces are very good at fighting with Ottawa. I mean, we had Scott Moe. He fights with Ottawa all the bloody time. No, no, no. But I guess what I'm trying
Zain: She might want to
Zain: room, because this
Zain: -Lago? You know,
Zain: Yes.
Zain: we're used to. And all the other provinces
Zain: time. No, no, no. But I guess what I'm trying to say is that the consequence of fighting with Ottawa and all the other provinces simultaneously. simultaneously well i
Corey: i
Corey: i don't even know if that's that penny is dropped but i'll just say normally premiers they will fight but the rest of the premieres said that we can't do that daniel smith decided that dynamic wasn't going to shift depending on the context reasonable
Zain: but i'll just
Corey: reasonable fear is that some of this is because of conversations she may have had in mar-a-lago obviously one of the things that is often leveled against daniel smith is she listens to the last person that she talked to The last person she talked to might have been Kevin O'Leary in this context. Kevin O'Leary, by the way, to be
Zain: this context.
Zain: O'Leary, by the way, to be
Zain: be clear, is unabashedly
Zain: unabashedly an advocate for this economic union of the two countries, passport currency, etc., just to add that context.
Corey: two countries,
Corey: Most certainly. And so, I mean, do I think it was strategic? If the goal is to weaken Canada, if the goal is to create conditions that might in the future cause us trouble, then sure. I don't actually believe that's Daniel Smith's goals. I know some of you will disagree.
Corey: So I think it was accidental. And I think it is a horrible, tragic accident. And I would also point out that one of the things that Daniel Smith has always supposedly done well, you know, the thing that people credit Daniel Smith with is she'll stand up, you know, she'll stand up to Trudeau. So I think that she heard the wrong part of that, is my feeling. My feeling is she heard the to Trudeau part and not the stand-up part. And the stand-up part's important, and the context has changed, and the opponent has changed. And Daniel Smith has an opportunity, still does, to
Corey: stand up to the right opponent. Let's talk
Zain: talk about that in a moment here around what she should do going forward. Carter, strategic
Zain: from Daniel Smith's perspective. She's getting a ton of heat, ton
Zain: ton of heat from the premiers, ton of heat.
Zain: She's the odd person out. Yeah,
Carter: I think this is one of those situations where you're trying to play chess, but you get fixated on one of your pieces and you just keep moving the same piece back and forth.
Carter: Perfect metaphor. That is what she's doing. She's fixated on one piece. And that one piece is I got to fight with Justin Trudeau. and I have to protect the oil and gas industry, maybe if she's looking at two pieces. So I got to protect the oil and gas industry. Interesting. Interesting. You're going to continue to focus on selling our product at a huge discount into a market that holds us captive. Interesting. I mean, if you really wanted to protect the oil and gas industry, there's a number of different things you could do. But I don't think that just capitulating to Donald Trump is necessarily in our long-term best interest. um the oil and gas industry uh you know if the tariff is applied the oil and gas industry may do worse it may not be doing as as badly but there's as we talked about in the last episode there's a huge uh amount of turnover and cost to turning over from the heavy oil that comes out of alberta so i think that this in a short term this
Carter: this could work out very well but she doesn't seem to see the long picture either and that is the very definition of strategy strategy is about seeing the multiple moves on the board and seeing how they play out in the long term and a i'll
Corey: they
Carter: i'll tell you something you you want to you want to end tariffs really quickly throw tariffs on alberta gas and alberta oil if
Carter: you throw tariffs on alberta gas and alberta oil the americans are going to feel that tomorrow and
Carter: and they're going to feel it in such a nasty way that they're going to stand up and say we can't have any more of these tariffs but she doesn't have the ability to see beyond the immediate play. So by definition, she can't be strategic.
Zain: So Corey, there's a couple of threads here. Let me pick up on one before we get to if the charges of her being un-Canadian and those sort of – the charges that go beyond this is a strategic mistake or blunder and put her into a very narrow category that might be quite damning. Let's talk about that in a second. Before we get there, do you feel like her dusting off an old script, which this is, and putting it out to Albertans will work, in the sense that will she feel political pain from this here? I'm curious about that, from your perspective, because, you know, there's all this other noise about what this means to the national conversation, etc. And Doug Ford made a good point, like, this is like me giving up the auto sector and saying, yeah, I could do this carve out for the auto sector, but I'm not because Canada comes first, right? So for
Zain: her to dust off a script that many of us are used to, the ear is very used to this sort of rhetoric. Do you think Albertans will care of context and will care of gravity of situation and ultimately factor that in or not and say, you know what? Yeah, she's actually standing up for us. This makes a ton of sense and get a bump here.
Corey: I think it's going to be a very mixed response. My sense is that if you are a supporter of the UCP, you've certainly heard enough voices in the UCP. They are hanging together very well on this particular issue, that probably the majority of UCP supporters will think this is an okay idea. My gut says, and I'm sure we'll see polling eventually, it's going to be decidedly more mixed amongst Albertans broadly. My guess is more Albertans opposed than in favor of Alberta's actions, but could very easily be on the other side of that, but close. That's my feeling, just based on conversations I've had today, based on some chatter I've had about the various inputs that are available to people here. I think that we are still in those forming times and that a really strong argument one way or the other could really sway Albertans who are just looking at this and saying, holy fuck, what the hell is happening? God, I hate Trump. Well, I don't really like Trudeau either. I don't know whose side I'm on. And so what matters the most in the next couple of days in terms of what the outcome with Albertans will be are the voices that come forward. So
Zain: My sense
Zain: forward. So
Corey: So put a pin in that because I think it's really important that Albertans hear the contrary voice from albertans articulated by albertans as to why this would be bad for them here but you know i do want to say one of the reasons why albertans will feel different about this inherently than the auto industry okay like i don't want to i don't want to be simple about it obviously a deeply integrated auto industry where for a car to be built it might cross the border or the various parts multiple times deeply integrated that's
Zain: times deeply
Zain: deeply
Corey: that's tough to uncouple doug ford's not wrong in that that sense but cars can go to different markets we can put them on ships we can send them somewhere the reality of alberta's oil infrastructure is that alberta's oil infrastructure basically goes to one place it
Zain: place it goes
Corey: goes to one ninety some odd
Zain: ninety some odd percent it's
Corey: the united states of america and the challenge is there's that's not changing anytime soon that's years and years and years if you want to change that and so there there is as is often the case here there's a kernel there's something at the center that validates what is an unjustifiable overall position and and that is that it's not like cars you know you do this to oil there's no other market for the oil and by the way anybody who's thinking otherwise there's not a giant like big tap in hardesty alberta that turns off oil to the united states you turn off oil there there it will take months it is very complicated it is a very difficult thing to do. You've got to reduce the amount of oil you're flowing because there's always more oil coming. We've got nowhere to put it at a certain point. There are real challenges. But there are real challenges on the US side too. And as Stephen talked about, they're desperate for the oil. And that is the game of chicken that we have to end up playing as a country moving forward. But
Corey: But we really cut ourselves off at the knees the minute we say, no, we're not even going to do that.
Zain: Carter?
Corey: Carter?
Zain: Dusting off an old script, will Albertans care of context in terms of Smith
Zain: selling this to Albertans?
Carter: Well, I think the waking up of the voices is certainly a really good point. I mean, somehow Nenshi came out of his winter doldrums to actually begin to address the issue from Fort McMurray, I might add. So that's a big step forward. We finally got an opposition voice. voice uh i hope that we start to see other you know prominent thinker voices beyond uh certain podcasts like ours that you know really shape the political discourse in the uh and the overall commentary um but i suspect that we'll start to see more and more like right now it's it's really hard to listen to watch the or to read the mainstream media the david staples and the rick bell of rick bells of the world who are carrying water on this yeah
Zain: this yeah calling her iron lady and like like Defiant and Alberta First and all, I'm just giving you a handful. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's
Carter: you a handful. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it's an impossible read. And that's saying something, because oftentimes they're an impossible read. But this is particularly bad. I don't understand, you know, Rick Bell's a populist. Rick Bell's a guy who's supposed to be reflecting the desires
Carter: desires of the everyday person. And I think that they've just misread this one. Because
Carter: Because I think the average person is not going to be responding particularly well to Danielle Smith's positions. conversations uh not that it matters anymore but on twitter you know the word trader trended and it was trending because they were calling her a traitor not a trade you know not saying that she wasn't she was and that's the the context now that people are are looking at this in is that danielle smith has has been uh a traitor to canada and i i think that that's how that's this is going to play in the long term that's
Zain: that's such a harsh brand but it you know it's it's interesting that's where Where are the conversations going? Corey, you wanted to jump in on something before I go there, whether, you know, this beyond a strategic blunder, and let's talk about the Canadian frame here. Well,
Corey: here. Well,
Corey: Well, and what do Albertans think, right? So let's talk about what we actually know, which is not much. I'm sure there'll be polling in the coming days. I guarantee you the framing of the question, order effect, are going to be significant considerations there in terms of what information people have when they're processing that. So everybody
Corey: everybody who's listening to this, who's in a position to interpret those things and make comment on those things i would encourage you to ask some fundamental questions who did you ask when did you ask and what order do you ask let's try to understand that we often talk beware of novel concepts right we are in the novel phase right now but what we do actually know we've now seen both lege and angus reed go out and poll on the question of america and you know taking over camp basically it's not this it's a different issue but i think we could agree that they're are somewhat adjacent. They're tied
Carter: They're tied together. And
Corey: tied
Corey: what we do see is we see Leger's numbers confirmed by Angus Reid. Angus Reid asked an awful lot more hypotheticals and pushing further.
Corey: Somewhere between around nine and 10 Canadians say, no, I don't want to be part of the United States. One in 10 says, yes, I do want to be part of the United States. Within that, the group's most enthusiastic about joining the United States push you to about 20%. That
Corey: That is actually Alberta, But that is still an aggressively minority position. That's still an 80-20 issue in terms of like being there for Canada, right? So the other thing we do know is that conservatives are more likely to support that. You've got to think about it in terms of both Danielle Smith being the Alberta premier and hearing more from Alberta voices, of course, and also a conservative. These two don't stack, like they're measuring the same thing. It's about 20% of Alberta, right? But you have to imagine that there are quite a few conservative voices who are pretty sympathetic to that particular view, and that's going to be feeding some of that.
Zain: still an 80-20
Zain: and
Corey: We do know from the Angus Reid poll, and the last thing I want to throw on here is that when you start throwing things like, well, what if America gave you $60,000? What if America gave you $100,000? What if you lost your job? Would you then be willing to reconsider? Canadians say, no, fuck you. No, I'm not willing to reconsider. I guess I just lost my job. I guess I'm still strongly opposed. And I lost my job. And the softening of that 90% number is not as significant as you might think. And
Corey: the reason that matters is while we're talking about a different issue, it is an adjacent issue. And if people feel assaulted by the United States, the limited polling we do have suggests that there will be a reflex. There will be like a fuck you reflex, not a let's capitulate reflex. So that's the context in which Daniel Smith has made this decision. Obviously, we'll get data that's about this specific decision in the days and weeks to come. But there is reason to believe that most Albertans will not react positively to this, all
Zain: all
Corey: all other things being equal. Corey, let's
Zain: let's talk about that harsh charge against Smith. It may not be harsh because I want to use another C word, not capitulate, compromised. Oh,
Carter: Oh, I thought you were going to say it for direct. I was getting very in there for a minute. I know exactly what I was doing there. I know exactly what I was doing. It's
Zain: I thought you were going to say it for direct. I was getting very in there for a minute. I know exactly what I was doing there. I know exactly what I was doing. It's a high wire at this show for me. Don't worry about it. The C word is compromised and, frankly, Canadian. Those two are really interesting because there's folks saying that Smith, this is an anti-Canadian move by Smith. that like this is a brand that should be applied to her the sovereignty act is being dredged up other conservatives were on the other side of the issue ford and mo are two on the press conference side but kenny and harper are are others that that kind of um one would argue are on the other side of daniel smith on this uh particular stance
Carter: wire at this show
Corey: me.
Carter: me. Don't
Carter: about it. The
Corey: particular stance kenny explicitly and i don't know if we know exactly where stephen harper is on this issue but kenny has said let's not take things off right right and and so you know being
Zain: being on the other side of it and
Zain: and then there's this this other narrative that's like, well, what did she get from Trump?
Zain: Or what was that conversation about in order for her to do something like this on the heels of that? And that one is starting to gain a bit of steam as well. So talk to me about beyond a strategic blunder, what trouble and what world of hurt could Danielle Smith be in here if some of these brands start having, I'm not even saying longevity, but start bearing some political fruit or start bearing some level of like, oh, that makes sense from people well let
Carter: let me jump in yeah right you remember louis real i do
Zain: right
Zain: do one of my favorite louis after ck but one of my favorites yeah louis
Carter: of my favorite louis after ck but one of my favorites yeah louis real same thing i want to take back what
Zain: i want to take back what i said about louis ck there okay just just keep going yeah okay
Carter: no
Carter: that was my whole that was a bit that was funny no we laughed i'm tired all
Corey: right we said 45 minutes we're 20
Carter: 20 yeah we're gonna keep going we're gonna keep going we're gonna go you got nothing
Zain: 20
Corey: 20 yeah we're
Zain: we're
Corey: we're
Zain: you got nothing at the at the premier A senior of Alberta that you do not like, Carter, being called un-Canadian and potentially compromised. What do
Corey: compromised. What do
Corey: do you have?
Zain: What are your thoughts when
Corey: when I
Zain: I throw that? This is an insane timeline we're living in. I'm throwing that out. But
Carter: in. I'm throwing that
Carter: But this goes right back to Corey's very first point. Which is? Very first point. And that was that it's whoever she spoke to last whose views that she reflects. And she knows this about herself. Is that too charitable? like they're but she knows that about herself and she chooses to surround herself with people who provide her with insane points of view that almost
Zain: Is that too charitable?
Zain: but
Zain: that almost
Zain: almost implies she's got no conviction
Carter: conviction like
Carter: like they're absolutely she has no conviction she just wants to be premier and she wants to be premier of a rich province not a poor province and and she can see that if you lose oil we become a poor province very quickly she's not wrong if if this thing led if we had a a a 15 tariff and and it lasted for quite some time. You mean like an export tax on our own? Yeah, we would be screwed as
Zain: mean like an export tax on our own? Yeah,
Carter: as a province. We would be running deficits, which she hates. She hates deficits because the people around her have told her that deficits are very bad. And she doesn't like not having royalties to spend because spending money is very good, the people around her have told her. And these are the things that she wants to have and wants to be able to do. And she doesn't want to raise taxes because obviously the people around her have told her that that's fatal for provincial premiers. So I think that Danielle Smith is really between a rock and a hard place. The compromise doesn't come from Donald Trump, you know, wrapping her arm around her, wrapping her an American flag and saying, you'll be the governor of our 51st state, you know, Danielle. It's nothing like that. The compromise comes from her. It
Corey: she
Carter: It comes from her. Okay,
Zain: comes from her. Okay, let me ask this. Can I ask this slightly differently to you, Corey? Let me ask you to be one of Daniel Smith's advisors. Heading into that meeting, this seems like a decision that was already made.
Zain: Yeah. Right? It seems like a decision already made. The communication was largely already there on the back end, the justification of not signing on to any joint communique. How would you have done it if you were her? Or what would you have suggested she had done differently that may not have landed her in this situation of being considered un-Canadian in that sense?
Corey: have
Corey: Okay. Well, there's two very obvious things here. One is I would not have gone to Mar-a-Lago, right? You immediately are leading into questions of what did you get for betraying your country? The compromise
Zain: country? The compromise question that I'm asking.
Corey: asking.
Corey: The compromise question, but it becomes almost, hey, you know, I
Zain: The compromise
Corey: don't know. Like what was their conversation with Kevin O'Leary? What was their conversation with Donald Trump? If you are ultimately going to end up in the position like that, you simply cannot look like you are perhaps benefiting through some sort of back deal. So I would have not done that meeting. That's step one. Like, if I was planning to do this, and I knew this before this conference, I would not have gone to Mar-a-Lago. You could maybe go to Mar-a-Lago after, you can't go before, because it does start to create a bit of a quid pro quo sense. The second thing I would have done is show up in the fucking room, right? I would have, no matter how painful, no matter how annoying, I would have been in the room so that you've avoided that kind of critique of you that you're sitting in Panama. By the way, another target of Donald Trump's, I mean, it's just pretty wild. It's pretty rich. And I would have tried to look as reasonable as possible. I would have gone to that press conference at the end. I would have said, I just, I cannot, like as uncomfortable as it would be, I would stand there and I would say, I love this country. This is the wrong thing. this is rushed we can't do this if i was going to push forward on this particular strategy now i wouldn't have pushed forward on this strategy personally but you asked me how i yeah this strategy if the decision
Zain: decision was made and
Corey: and
Zain: and she had decided
Corey: decided
Zain: decided
Corey: decided
Zain: decided
Corey: decided this is
Zain: is
Corey: is what i want to do how would you i'll also tell you this if she was in the room it's more likely to me that scott moe doesn't sign that it's more likely to me that she manages to find at least one ally that they can sort of sit out and say no we're not willing to sign this particular you feel like she wanted to go at it alone in order to
Zain: to have headlines about her and and like like do you feel like they almost were like we want to go out on this alone to be the sole defenders of industry and they may not have seen what the last 70 don't i shouldn't say 7 36 hours or 24 hours brought their way but is there part of you that felt like maybe she wanted to be the singular defender of of of of something well
Corey: you that
Zain: to what end yeah
Carter: yeah right like you're out on an island you're all by yourself there's no real advantage to that everybody knows where to point other other
Zain: other other than yeah other than to the united states where they could say look at that lady again right we met her last week and look at her this week and and i'm just wondering if that's if adding another signatory to your cause dilutes your brand presence to what mega believes about you that sounds insane but actually after visiting mar-a-lago it doesn't i don't think it is insane i
Corey: week and
Corey: visiting mar
Corey: i i mean i think oh boy well look at this i mean And even if you were to assume that her strategy was to weaken Canada in some way, which I'm not, I just want to be clear.
Zain: just want to be clear.
Zain: Yeah, we're not making
Corey: making that charge yet.
Corey: Even- Aren't we? I'm
Zain: I'm not making
Corey: making that charge. We're not making that charge?
Zain: making that charge. We're not making that charge? One of
Corey: of the three of us are not making that charge.
Zain: of the three of us are not making
Corey: Even if you assumed that was her strategy, you would want Scott Moe on side. Like, there's no benefit, right? Moe seems like the most natural ally.
Zain: Moe seems like the most natural ally. You're right.
Corey: Yeah, well, there's no benefit in going alone as a- Like, if you want to create chaos and discord within the Canadian Confederation, have
Corey: have two. Why would you not have two? like what's the benefit of one over two if you're donald trump so even if you thought that was her strategy i don't know if that really tracks for me right i i get the sense i can understand her wanting to be a leader and saying like i'm the tough one right that whole iron lady thing that rick by the way rick bell you know when when uh margaret thatcher was um you know getting that moniker it wasn't because she gave away the fucking falkland islands right so she
Carter: she didn't fly to argentina and say you know suck up yeah you
Corey: you think if she did you think meryl streep would have
Zain: think
Zain: meryl
Zain: have played her no exactly
Corey: exactly
Zain: exactly never
Corey: never
Corey: never yeah meryl's
Zain: meryl's all right she's awesome okay
Corey: all right she's
Corey: well i agree that she is pretty good but she's
Zain: she's are you kidding
Corey: kidding you're
Zain: you're saying meryl's only pretty good
Corey: i gonna get name one say she's a little
Zain: i gonna get name one say she's a little over name one are you fucking name one flop i
Corey: name one are you
Carter: you
Corey: you
Carter: you
Corey: you
Carter: you
Corey: don't know the range the range
Zain: know the range the range
Corey: range
Zain: range is incredible the range the
Corey: the range is the range well
Zain: range
Zain: well
Corey: well i thought the range was the name of a movie that flopped so and the range is incredible this
Zain: this is actually this is actually She's dispiriting now. This is, you've taken this kind of. Now your morale is low. This is how I felt after. Okay, I'm
Corey: She's dispiriting
Corey: I'm not going to say it. Like if she wanted to be like just showing that she was tough, though, and she wanted to be like, I can go it alone.
Corey: Why? Like, why? Like, why?
Zain: Because she's going to the inauguration on Monday and she wants to be known as something to these people. That's not insane to me.
Corey: Oh, God. When
Zain: When you say, oh, God, do you mean like I could have a point?
Corey: you
Carter: Oh, God, I can't. I've forgotten she was going to the inauguration.
Zain: Oh, God,
Zain: It was a little bit of that, actually. There you go. She's going to the inauguration on Monday. God bless Albert. Super. Carter, if you were trying to sell this on behalf of Daniel Smith, what would you do? I think the analysis is fun, but I think the strategy is more uniquely our lane in this regard. So talk to me about this. What would you have done to help her out, ease the pain, get the same message across? How would you have done it? You
Carter: actually. There
Corey: There
Carter: There
Corey: There you go.
Carter: She's
Corey: She's
Carter: She's going
Corey: going to the inauguration
Corey: God
Carter: know what? As much as we often defend politicians for going on vacation and defend politicians for taking time for themselves because the job is impossible, the job's impossible, you never get any time off. You're always on. This isn't the time to be away.
Zain: because the job is impossible, the job's impossible,
Carter: This is the time that this family vacation had to had to blow up. And she needs to be back in Calgary and Edmonton. because she has a way with of words uh she simplifies the concepts down to individual blocks like you know toddlers building toy castles with their blocks that type of thing she builds it for albertans and albertans buy it uh a lock stock barrel every time um because it has the word barrel in it and they think oh that's how we sell oil so you know it's a uh it's
Corey: she has
Carter: it it's
Carter: It's a remarkable thing how she's able to convince us that she's in the right, even when she's doing things that are terribly wrong.
Carter: So I think that if she's just here, she's able to sell this. Her not being here is the fatal flaw of this strategy. Corey,
Zain: Corey, I'm going to remove the guardrails for you. You're still helping Smith.
Zain: You're cleaning this up now. You're seeing what the last 36 hours have brought you, and you're like, fuck this. How am I making it right?
Zain: So how
Corey: how am I backing away from this particular position? If
Zain: If that's what the strategy requires,
Corey: requires,
Zain: requires,
Zain: I'm giving you
Corey: you
Zain: you a wide berth here.
Corey: here.
Corey: Right. Well, I think that what you're doing in that case is you're finding an excuse to agree. And if you are Justin Trudeau and you have – look,
Corey: I know you said no more analysis, but can I just say, like, Justin Trudeau going after Daniel Smith today for not putting country first after not
Zain: not doing
Corey: not
Corey: doing the election? Much sharper. Well, but okay. But like maybe
Zain: doing
Zain: Much sharper. Well, but okay. But like maybe
Corey: maybe not you, man. Maybe someone else can carry that conversation. conversation like you're the guy who just gave us the liberal leadership race for the next couple of months well we're dealing with all of this shit yeah
Zain: yeah because
Corey: because you refuse to step down carter
Zain: carter that's a race that's happening now that you're on
Corey: on is
Zain: is
Carter: that really did that happen yeah yeah you're doing
Corey: you're
Zain: you're
Corey: you're doing
Zain: doing that good job buddy oh
Carter: my god well
Corey: well and also i think just more likely to set off albert yeah not constructive but if you want to be constructive justin trudeau what you would do is you would find a way that she can essentially declare victory without fundamentally changing it where it's like Like, okay, we've agreed that in the scenario where we do this, Alberta will be getting compensated in this way or something like this, and we're all going to be there as a nation, and they accept it. Like, you've got to help her find a victory in this, when she is so far out on a ledge. People are calling her a traitor. People are calling her a quizling. This is not the kind of thing where you can just go the next day and say, oh, actually, you know what? I'm not. Actually, it's all good. We're all on Team Canada. She's so on a ledge, Zane. You've got to help her off that ledge. So Team
Zain: well
Zain: but if
Carter: not
Zain: not
Zain: good. We're all on Team Canada.
Zain: ledge. So Team Canada-wise, I get what you're saying. Carter, I want you to take the raw politics. Be ruthless if you need to. Is it helpful for the prime minister and the premiers to have Danielle Smith floating on an island by herself, doubling and tripling down, and for them to show unity? When there's always someone who's an outlier, do they not always politically look better? Doesn't Scott Moe get a bit of a bump by having Danielle Smith as a foil, versus all of them just coming together and looking standard issue, shoe we're all together team canada bra bra bra like talk to me about the politics of offering that off-ramp to her do you actually want her to be on the same boat as you are you actually happy because she provides a very convenient foil of like i could have been that fucking lady but you're lucky you have me no
Carter: i i mean i think this is one of those times when you have to actually say uh what's good for the country is more important than what might be good politically i told you to be ruthless and
Zain: i told you to be ruthless and be political on this i
Carter: i am being ruthless and political what i'm what What I'm telling you is that there is no right answer of saying, well, you know, we're just going to leave her out there. Let her float on the raft
Zain: to leave her out there. Let her float on the raft somewhere else. You know,
Carter: know, Justin Trudeau, frankly, isn't going to need the points in 38 days or whatever the hell the number of days are. Doug Ford might in 10.
Zain: Doug Ford might in 10.
Zain: Doug
Carter: Doug Ford, I'll tell you, Doug Ford's the one who's smiling all the way to the piggy bank. This is fantastic for Doug Ford. This
Zain: Doug Ford, I'll tell you, Doug
Zain: This being what? How it's going for him regardless of Smith's situation or Smith being a foil to him? Canada,
Carter: being what? How
Carter: foil to him? Canada, showing that you can disagree with someone and still put the country first. You know, this is fantastic. It's manna from heaven for Doug Ford. And Daniel Smith is just giving it to him. But instead of, like, I want to answer the question that you asked, Corey, about how do you get off of this if you're Daniel Smith? You know, Corey immediately said, if you're the prime minister, you throw her a rope. You find a way to get her off the ledge. that's that's right but what does danielle smith do if i'm danielle smith i find a way to stand up not at the inauguration but when i'm in washington dc find a canadian reporter and actually say something along the lines of alberta has to stand up and we have to stand with canada on this tariff we're just we're not prepared to do it the exact same way but we are prepared to stand up for canada do
Corey: about how do you
Zain: a canadian reporter you mean like for a canadian outlet yeah
Carter: like the The Globe and Mail must have someone down there. So
Zain: So not our buddy. We shouldn't just go reach out to Josh Wingrove and be like, Josh, what's up, homie? Hey, Josh, you're with Bloomberg
Carter: up, homie? Hey, Josh, you're with Bloomberg now. You
Corey: You do big shit now. Josh, you probably got better people to interview, but maybe do us a solid. Get us one
Zain: Josh,
Carter: got
Corey: one with Danielle. Remember
Carter: Remember when he was chasing the guy with the gun down the hallway? I got him. What a guy.
Corey: Remember when he was
Zain: What a guy. I got – that was nuts. Shout out to our Josh Wingrove.
Zain: Albertan, I
Zain: believe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Corey: Yeah. No, I can remember talking to him about the Alberta Liberal Party. Man, that's amazing. You know, man,
Zain: You know, man,
Corey: he's he's doing a lot better now. Yeah.
Zain: he's
Zain: Yeah. Yeah. And the three of us are still here hammering
Zain: hammering out content for these fucking losers. I don't know. I don't know how much longer I'm here.
Carter: I don't know. I don't know how much longer I'm here. I don't know how much longer I'm here. I told you 45 minutes.
Zain: much longer I'm here. I told you 45 minutes. Let me let me let me do the next two things in nine. How about I phrase it this way? Corey, I'll start with you. When
Zain: the first minister's meeting ended, who
Zain: was the biggest winner?
Zain: Doug Ford,
Zain: Justin Trudeau, who was going to be iced out of the press conference, but in fact, got to head up that press conference or
Zain: Canadians. because the vast majority of their divided polarized
Zain: polarized politics
Zain: came together and said we're on the same page here so who was the biggest winner for you was it for trudeau
Corey: trudeau or canadians you
Corey: you know it's tough not to pick canadians at that moment but that feels like the hallmark answer so i'm gonna say doug ford doug ford was the biggest winner and here's why here's
Corey: here's why um can't
Corey: really say that it's justin trudeau he can't win his game is over like he's the guy who's walked onto to the ice and you're like my man you're not you're not a player anymore yeah right yeah we traded you last that's fine yeah
Zain: traded you last that's fine yeah
Corey: yeah we traded you last week you're out of here no it's over for him like he can't win anymore sure his win-loss record is now frozen you know there's no way to win i mean his loss record is not he'll find a way but i i think my
Corey: my point stands like he can't be the winner he's no longer prime minister right it's not canadians because daniel smith opposed And in fact, what should have been the headline of United Front became Daniel Smith stands alone, right? That was the major thrust of all of the stories. That's the major thrust of the stories as it's carried in the United States, I'm sure. So that's a real challenge for us. We have shown a fundamental weakness at a time when weakness could be economically fatal. But
Corey: Doug Ford, Doug
Corey: Ford actually got the opportunity to stand up and say, I'm putting Canada first. I don't know about that, Danielle Smith, but I'm going to put Canada first, right? He looked like a real fucking leader. He stood up against another conservative, and he's got an election coming. So his needs are more easily filled by that press conference than Canadians' needs. And Justin Trudeau is, you know, unfortunately irrelevant now, unfortunately for him.
Zain: him. I'll get back to Doug Ford in a second. I'll spend a few minutes on him. Carter, I'll give you the same shake. We might spend it right now if he's your answer. No,
Carter: no. It's, you
Carter: you know, Corey's usual thinking at a unidimensional level. I'm thinking much broader, much broader than this. And I think the answer is actually Mark Carney, Chrystia Freeland, and Nahed Nenshi are the winners. Nenshi got woken from his slumber and has come out of hibernation and now has an enemy again. And the same is true for Chrystia Freeland and Mark Carney. They are both going to rail and have another opposition member. they have Pierre Palliev, and they now get to equate Pierre Palliev to Daniel Smith. And that is a fantastic way for them to start to undercut and cut away from the power that represents the conservative movement right now that is, you know, polling light years ahead of the Liberal Party.
Zain: Corey, I'm going to Pierre's. If your comments are about that, hold on for me. Is that where you wanted to go? They were. Okay, so here we go. Let's talk about Pierre. Two things, Carter. Number one, three times today he's asked if he agrees with the Smith no-export tariffs on oil and gas. Three times he tries to skate. Last time the CP asks him, he ultimately says, well, we don't – catches them on a technicality, doesn't answer the question, skates away, does not answer it.
Corey: on
Zain: How much trouble is Pierre Polyev on this particular file? Take a shot at that.
Carter: I mean, it's not carbon tax level, but it's a pretty big problem for him. And
Zain: And I guess the second part, what would you do if you're him? Let me add that to the mix.
Carter: You know what I would do? I'd become Captain Canada if I was Pierre Palliev right now I'd wrap myself in the flag and say and not say that Justin Trudeau has stumbled upon the right answer but even a broken clock is right twice a day you know like you just have to wrap yourself in this particular flag and say you know what sometimes politics is about is smaller than patriotism sometimes we have to put the country's needs first and I'm really pleased to see Justin Trudeau doing that we disagree agree on just about everything else but on this one piece i actually am very proud uh of the work that's being done by uh by the premiers and and the prime minister cory
Zain: uh is he in a world of hurt if he can't make up his mind on this particular question and how would you advise him on on how to answer it
Corey: it i
Zain: i
Corey: mean make up your mind there is only one answer and i do not know what he's doing it does seem to me that he has the same disease as daniel smith on this which is hey hey, you know, I fight, I fight the liberals, I fight Trudeau. And so I got to fight the liberals and I got to fight Trudeau. But there is only one answer here. And if you even just want to get down to some pretty basic electoral math, you are going to win every seat in Alberta. You are going to win every seat in Alberta, no matter what you say on this question. You
Zain: Trudeau. And
Zain: no matter what you say on this question. You will
Corey: will jeopardize seats everywhere if it looks like you're standing with Alberta. Like we talked about what's it look like the public opinion in Alberta. And I was like, I don't know, I think it's going to be opposed. But you you know, the Conservatives there. Fuck
Corey: that. Outside of Alberta, this is not a tough question. Yeah, exactly. And if it looks like you're equivocating, and it looks like you're maybe standing with, this is how you blow a 25 point lead. This is how you fuck up an unfuck-uppable election, by doing things like this. By hesitating on Canada.
Carter: Yeah, exactly. And if it
Zain: hesitating on Canada.
Corey: There is only one fucking answer. And the longer you wait to give it, the worse you look. You should have given it today. There is only one answer. And by the way, it's just a couple of pollsters right now, but we're already apparently seeing a tightening of the polls. And by tightening, I mean, instead of a 25 point, 29 point lead, it's now a 20 point lead. But that's pretty quick. And if you do not figure out that you've got to neutralize this issue by being the toughest person in the room, you are going to lose this election. Well, let's talk about neutralizing.
Zain: 25 point, 29 point lead,
Zain: neutralizing. Carter, I'm going to try to stick to time.
Zain: Carbon tax election may not be the brand of this election. So
Zain: So as much as Jagmeet Singh may have missed out on a shot, But Pierre Polyev, and I'm not saying he's going to lose this election, may have missed out on the ballot box question of this election.
Carter: as much as Jagmeet
Carter: Perhaps, perhaps,
Zain: perhaps, especially with what we're hearing with Carney today saying, I'll come out with a comprehensive plan, all but indicating I'll undercut it, and Freeland doing the same for her announcement this weekend. So liberals might kill it before Pierre Polyev gets to have an election, the carbon tax, that is, before – Tax was axed. Yeah, yeah. It's over. You've got two potential winners. How much of an issue is that for Pierre Polyev? He's got a host of other ballot box questions to choose from. But how worried are you if you're Jenny Byrne right now around your pivot? And you might say not at all. You might say quite a bit. That's why I ask you the questions and don't answer them myself. I
Corey: for her
Corey: gets to have an election,
Corey: You've got
Corey: How much of
Carter: I think that it's a massive problem. I think that you're losing Captain Canada, the guy who was fighting for Canada. That's going away. You're losing the carbon tax. you're you're facing uh new and exciting potential opposition um and you're you're you're going to be struggling in the polls uh and i don't mean struggling in the polls like uh you're going to be losing necessarily the election but this vote is not efficient we've we've covered this before you win all your seats in alberta but with 65 percent and you know that doesn't help because Because that's part of that 25-point lead is in Alberta, you've got 65%, 70%. It is difficult for the Conservatives to make an efficient vote. The Liberal vote is very efficient. Corey has talked eloquently about how it might be too efficient where they drop precipitously. But it also means that they can technically lose the election on popular vote but
Carter: but hold the number two. As I believe
Zain: number two. As I believe they have the last, at least the last two. Yeah, I was going to say last two. Definitely the last one. So you
Carter: last two.
Carter: last one. So you could be down by eight points. Let's say eight. I'm picking eight relatively randomly. Yeah.
Zain: Yeah. You
Carter: You could be down by eight points and hold the Conservatives to a minority. And
Zain: You
Carter: that's well within the realm of possibility when you're looking at a Bloc Quebecois that is strengthening and a Liberal Party that remains in the game. So in
Carter: two years, you know, this whole thing is totally different. if it's a minority government that Pierre Polyev gets. Because it turns out, I'm going to shock you guys, Pierre Polyev's not a particularly likable person, and
Carter: that matters. It
Carter: It matters significantly.
Corey: matters significantly.
Corey: I mean, there's just another reality. Like, where the fuck are the votes going to go? Like, any party that's showing any signs of life
Corey: has already made their case known on this. So, I don't know what, I don't, I understand the internal tensions it would create. I understand that there'd be a lot of people in Alberta who will be angry at him for that stance but you know okay what
Corey: what does that mean to me when i when i'm considering the broader electoral math here right yeah
Zain: yeah
Zain: yeah so so cory from from your perspective though how much of an issue is the carbon tax election not on the table for pierre pauliev i
Corey: don't think it needs to be a big issue but he's got a fig he's got a he's gonna go through the mourning process he's gonna try to make it a carbon tax issue uh
Corey: uh for longer but it's not the only thing that canadians are frustrated about right now yeah
Carter: yeah and
Corey: and
Corey: and i do think he's still got a lot of runway on housing frankly the
Corey: way he screws this up is by failing to neutralize this team canada stuff by being on team canada do you feel like the minute all the other stuff takes a back seat and this is an election about how to deal with the trump administration only
Corey: if he lets it but but you know you don't think that's
Zain: you don't think that's an advantageous question for him even if he were to make the right move i think it's a terrible terrible question for
Carter: that's an advantageous
Carter: move i think
Corey: think it's
Corey: terrible
Carter: terrible
Corey: terrible question
Carter: question
Carter: for him
Zain: him yeah he gets he
Carter: he gets he gets all the negative comparisons none of the positive you don't
Zain: you don't
Zain: don't you don't think the conservative brethren aspect of that applies well to him at all the fact that there's a like-mindedness i
Corey: think it was a not great question for him and it became a terrible question the minute daniel smith did what she did yeah
Corey: yeah
Zain: yeah that's
Corey: yeah that's what i'd say at this point there is now an open conversation in this country about why is it that conservatives tend to support this track more than more than every other party like Like the polling is really interesting, right? It shows, we talk about 10% support across Canada for joining the United States. Again, adjacent issue, but I think a related issue.
Corey: 3% in the liberals. It's 1% in the NDP and it's 20% in the conservatives and people are starting to take note of that and they're starting to say, what the fuck is this then? What's going on? And the more that they're talking about this, especially with what Daniel Smith's doing doing out there the worse it is kill the issue kill the issue by being on team canada being very forceful say well i agree with doug ford and i really appreciate how doug ford brought the country together on this one i really like how scott moe stood up for it and you know i stand up for it too and some things are beyond politics and and you know what he's fucking going so show a certain amount of magnanimity and say and i'd like to thank the prime minister for his work on on this too. This is obviously, this is beyond politics. Show you're a statesman. This
Carter: there the worse
Carter: This has been a great summary of what I said earlier. Thank you, Corey.
Carter: Corey. Hey,
Zain: Hey, Carter, last question. An aside that we've discussed already. How pissed would you be if you're like Ontario Liberals, Ontario New Democrats, seeing Doug Ford being celebrated by the rest of the country, the other premiers, Wab Kanu being like, Doug, you're doing a hell of a job, all All these sort of things. I mean, he's killing it in the moment. I think we've been having a text discussion about this, being like, things that Doug Ford has done that are like crazy,
Zain: crazy, right? Like, all seem to be washed away with his performance over the course of the last— Yeah, you remember all that Greenbelt shit? That's what I was referring to, right? Greenbelt, privatized, like, sort of highways, like a bunch of stuff. Bike lanes? Like, a bunch of stuff. Remember all the craziness
Corey: performance over
Corey: last— Yeah, you
Corey: shit? That's what I
Corey: right?
Corey: Bike lanes? Like, a bunch of stuff. Remember all the craziness
Zain: craziness about bike lanes a month ago? Carter, where would
Zain: you be and how would you be thinking about your upcoming election that Ford will trigger if you're the Ontario NDP or the Ontario Liberals? And I'm clumping them together because they're both getting fucked over by this a bit.
Carter: I mean, I could
Carter: could have been a contender. I mean, if the question had been different, the timing had been different, maybe they could have participated. But unfortunately, it looks like that opportunity to participate is going to be taken away from them. And, you know, Doug Ford is a better politician than I think any of us have given him credit for. Corey,
Zain: Corey, any final thoughts here?
Corey: I think we've given Doug Ford a lot of credit, actually.
Corey: actually. You're not giving us enough credit, Stephen, I think, even during the elections. He knows how to do politics, and he's really showing that right now. And ultimately, even if you want to be cynical about it, he's the same kind of elbows up that Donald Trump is with more of a folksy demeanor. And he knows how to shove an elbow in your face. And that's really, I think, advantageous at a moment like this. Corey, as I
Zain: I complete the potpourri, the hodgepodge of questions, I brought up the Ontario NDP. Let me bring up the provincial NDP. I told you I'd end up here, but fuck if – Carter's still killing it. It's 45
Carter: It's 45 minutes. Carter's answers are – 45 minutes was five minutes ago. It's fine. You want to give
Zain: Carter's answers are – 45 minutes
Zain: give
Carter: give people good
Zain: give people good content or
Carter: or
Zain: or no?
Carter: no?
Carter: no?
Carter: I don't ever worry about that. I
Zain: I don't ever worry about that. I think this will wake you up right away, Carter. Here's a question. What should Nahid Nenshi do? do. Are you awake? I have the smelling salts kicked in. Stephen Carter, are you ready to provide advice to our friend Nahid Nenshi, who you said has made a video, was on television talking about this, punching through a bit on this particular matter of Danielle Smith? What's his track here? And how does he maximize the political pain? But how does he maximize the Team Canada approach emanating from Alberta, at least with his voice? He
Carter: needs to articulate a full vision of what it is that the Alberta position should be. The Alberta position doesn't need to be full acquiescence, but it needs to be some sort of model. And he needs to put to a model of how we're going to weather the tariffs. tariffs um and i think that there's a there's there's answers out there to how we can where whether these whether these tariffs and he needs to articulate those answers and then he needs to be on this issue every fucking day when
Carter: when she's away when she's back every day every if she shows up somewhere he's got to be trailing right behind her telling
Carter: telling everybody how wrong she is about this particular issue. He cannot let it go, especially if Justin Trudeau throws her a rope while she's standing on the ledge.
Zain: Corey, any thoughts on your end around, excuse me, what the opposition NDP need to think about here?
Carter: Yeah.
Corey: Yeah. Yeah.
Corey: He needs to be able to go forward and make a case on relatively narrow grounds, but moral high grounds, right? The thing that I think a lot of us want him to say is something along the lines of, hey, being a country means we all work together, right? And as as Albertans, we've benefited from uneven distribution of oil in good times, and we've got responsibilities in bad times. We hang together, we're a country. That's, you know, that's what a lot of us want to hear. But I think that opens you to a couple of unnecessary critiques here. And so there's actually a more absolutist position you can take as Nahed Nenshi, right? My position is no tariff is acceptable. And the best shot we have at no tariff is working together with the rest of the country, you know, showing strength together. Our interest can't just be supporting one industry it's supporting all of the industries it's supporting our that's really good
Zain: country, you know,
Carter: that's really good that's
Carter: really good cory that took my point and made it so much better but
Corey: really good cory
Corey: that took my
Zain: my
Zain: but the only reason you didn't make it is because you're tired and not because you're not good listen
Carter: listen i i
Carter: i still recognize greatness when i see it yeah
Zain: yeah just normally
Carter: just normally i see it in myself did you
Zain: you see it at all today at any point during the day
Zain: and that's
Carter: that's
Carter: that's
Carter: a wrap on episode 1848 of the strategist with me as always, Corey Hogan, Zane Velji, I'm Stephen Carter.