Transcript
Zain
0:02
This is the Strategist
Zain
0:04
1832. My name is Zain Velji. With me as always, Stephen
Zain
0:06
Stephen Carter and one Corey Hogan. Guys, what goes it?
Zain
0:10
How goes it? What goes it? I'm going to start with what goes it. What
Carter
0:15
goes it? What goes over? I don't know what to say. It actually kind of flows. It doesn't work. What goes it kind of flows? What's
Corey
0:19
What's the proper response to what goes it? Like, let's workshop this a little bit. Yeah.
Zain
0:23
Well, let's just make this a Northeast exclusive. What goes it? Corey, respond. front uh
Corey
0:28
uh goes goes how zane goes how goes
Zain
0:32
goes how's how's plural goes how goes house
Corey
0:35
house i know that's good it's plural um
Zain
0:36
um quick question before we get started are we part of the podcast manosphere and should we be having trump on i'm just not sure what we should be doing at this point are
Zain
0:46
are we are we contributing to the bottom line of fascism i hope not or are we yeah no but like should we be i guess i'm sorry let me rephrase should we be uh what goes what goes it yeah and should we be should we be like more fascist like i don't know i mean it's like anchorman like what should i do with my
Corey
1:08
my hands i don't i don't know that we need to get on that particular bandwagon we've jumped on a few in the days yeah fascism though not not one of them it's
Carter
1:16
it's not my favorite
Corey
1:16
favorite domain names we'll
Zain
1:17
we'll stick with purchasing domain names yeah okay i feel like I feel like we're anti-fascist or Antifa, as I like to say, which is a term I've just coined. I feel like we're Antifa with our domain name purchases. Carter, before we get going, the Sketch One provincial election is happening as we speak, as we record,
Corey
1:37
record, I should say.
Zain
1:38
Listeners, when they listen, will probably know the results, or at least, if it's very close, know a direction of the results. Quick prediction for you, Stephen Carter. Who's taking this? Well,
Carter
1:46
Well, I called our good friend Jeremy Nolais today, and he's feeling pretty good. so obviously that means the saskatchewan party's gonna win and uh jeremy's gonna lose it's awkward i feel bad for him but uh that's got to be my prediction is the saskatchewan party by three seats three seats okay
Zain
2:03
do you pronounce the s in no lay he
Carter
2:07
carter does is it
Zain
2:09
it is it no less
Carter
2:10
less how long did you work with him and you don't know how to pronounce his last name i
Zain
2:14
just dropped the the s
Carter
2:15
s it's got the s attached to it my friend most
Zain
2:17
most people drop the second half of his first name so i don't even know if i get to the last
Carter
2:20
last part i don't like to refer to him by his first name it makes us feel like we're you know informally related to one another i don't like it uh
Zain
2:28
uh corey should we be dropping the s on on jeremy nolay nolay sounds like
Carter
2:32
like he does yes yeah
Corey
2:35
yeah i think it's one of those things zane where people started saying nolay almost as a joke and it caught on apparently to the point where you thought that was his actual name and
Corey
2:45
i don't i don't even i it i think that's
Carter
2:46
that's up to speed no no one's with jeremy i think that's the whole point
Zain
2:50
corey corey who uh uh what are you
Zain
2:52
you doing first of all what what are you doing you're
Carter
2:54
you're the one who said
Zain
2:57
let me remind you i've got a ironclad pdf that protects us from all uh legal action okay from
Zain
3:04
from friendlies and unfriendlies um so corey don't need to worry about this okay don't need to get our our lawyers i'm glad to go house
Zain
3:10
house um yeah i
Zain
3:11
i would go go i don't even forget i forget what
Corey
3:13
house what go out yeah
Zain
3:14
yeah go ahead no that's what your response is
Corey
3:19
what goes it what goes it go house yeah i think i
Zain
3:23
don't know it is now
Corey
3:24
whatever it was it's now this it
Zain
3:25
it has been three minutes
Carter
3:26
minutes so i don't know what we did where's our first segment saying where's our first who's
Zain
3:30
who's who's who's winning us who's winning this before we i said
Carter
3:32
said from cory i already said you're not cory yeah
Zain
3:35
yeah i get it
Corey
3:38
don't be lazy I mean, Stephen Carter said Saskatchewan party, so I will be picking the NDP to win this one. Yeah, which I
Corey
3:44
I got to tell you, like really impressive. And congratulations to everybody in the NDP who's working on it. Including Jeremy Noless. Cheryl Oates. And Cheryl Oates. Oates. Cheryl Oates.
Zain
3:56
I don't say the S in anyone's
Corey
3:58
anyone's last name. Well, I guess, you know, the candidates on the ballot maybe count for something too. You know, Carla Beck and all that. No, no, no,
Zain
4:04
no, no, no. Candidates, they're called electeds, which by the way is the most derogatory
Corey
4:07
derogatory term. That's true, eh? I've
Zain
4:11
the most derogatory political term
Corey
4:13
term you've ever heard? Yeah, when staffers refer to the electeds, it's usually not with love, I have to say.
Zain
4:18
No, it's rarely with love. It's always
Corey
4:20
always with the connotation of these fucking people in the way. It's like there's usually some sort of word, usually fucking before that. Yeah,
Zain
4:30
Yeah, no, congratulations. It seems like it's a real possibility, regardless of the outcome today. Good campaign. We're going to move it on. steven carter as you've asked our first segment they came they saw and stephen carter they missed
Zain
4:45
round one justin trudeau versus the mps yeah does
Zain
4:49
does it go to justin trudeau steven carter
Carter
4:51
carter if if if if you can win by not acting justin trudeau has won by not acting so you know we talked about how his greatest strength his greatest opportunity was just to simply outlast the uh the rebel cause and uh i'd say at this point he has outlasted the uh it's like survivor uh you don't have to thrive you just have to be the least threatening and it would appear that justin trudeau is the least threatening cory
Zain
5:20
give it to me straight did justin trudeau actually win round one here i'm not naive enough to say this is over that there won't continue doing and plotting and trying to uh you you know, get him out of there. But did he, by surviving last week, win round
Corey
5:36
round one? Of course, yeah. I think the big round
Corey
5:40
round one victory goes from him saying, I'm not going to go anywhere, right? And if there's a follow on, and if the pressure gets put out in a more public sense, maybe round two gets more interesting. But, you
Corey
5:52
you know, basically, it was a high noon battle, and somebody said draw, and then they reached into their holsters, and they realized all they had were baseball cards like there's no guns there like this there's nothing they could shoot
Zain
6:06
like not the ones in the not the ones like these are like the corners
Corey
6:09
corners these are like the tops
Corey
6:10
ones you put in your bicycle like spokes yeah that's what you're talking about yeah
Zain
6:13
yeah no that's good yeah that's good there's
Corey
6:17
and they always had nothing but the threat was to continue the metaphor that they rush him and beat him to death as a mob but it didn't seem to be the mob that materialized.
Carter
6:28
Carter, why didn't it materialize? I
Carter
6:30
I think because it ultimately required a personal investment. And that personal investment was you have to give something up. You
Carter
6:37
You have to give up the desire to serve or be a cabinet minister or three MPs, a whopping three MPs said it was probably best if he'd step down. And one of them had said it before. So with
Carter
6:51
with three MPs making the statement you're just not gonna you're
Carter
6:55
you're not gonna get anything going carter
Zain
6:57
carter you said last time if i'm if i'm gonna paraphrase this but like the the way this falls apart for them this was heading into last week is
Zain
7:05
is if they if they don't have the courage the gumption the bravery to like say it
Zain
7:11
and and and and build and make sure everyone who's saying it with them in closed doors or text message chats etc also vocalizes what's up that
Zain
7:20
that seemed like a fail point that that seemed like where they failed. Am I right?
Carter
7:23
Yeah. I mean, it wasn't... I mean, obviously, we're the strategists. Our analysis was upper
Carter
7:31
upper level. It was top tier. It was the best that there is.
Carter
7:35
And it was right. It was 100% right. Usually
Zain
7:38
Usually at this point, you insert other people who are not as good at this as us. Do you want to take that opportunity right
Carter
7:44
right now? No. I mean, who even listens to the hurly-burly? I
Carter
7:46
I mean, who listens to the curse of politics? politics uh unfortunately we've all been on west of center in the last couple of weeks so i can't really slag them uh but uh second
Carter
7:57
second you know we're on west of center so much they should just call it west of center featuring the strategists who's with me i'm
Zain
8:05
i'm with you for sure and and you know other people can be with us if they go to west of center uh dot ca to to um to listen to that wonderful podcast uh cbc exclusive uh corey hey listen corey why
Zain
8:19
why why do they why do they like why did they fall so flat on their faces here and did this surprise you i guess i'm actually trying to get like a bit of like analysis too but did this surprise you and give me the strategic breakdown on why they fell well
Corey
8:31
well i don't know if we should be surprised because this has been the story of so many rebellions or attempted rebellions or rumored rebellions in the past couple of years at many levels of government here the simple fact is these things often fail to materialize and they often fail to materialize for the same reason which is nobody wants to go first nobody wants to go second nobody wants to go third right they all want to be part of that mass that comes a little bit later and if you never get to that point you never get to that point and that does seem to be the case here and i do wonder if there wasn't a bit of realization
Corey
9:05
realization at some point that they didn't have step two or at least there was not enough of a common comfort with step two so i think in general there were probably dozens of mps who thought yeah we just want them to go
Corey
9:19
and yes where the plan seemed to fall apart for me first
Corey
9:24
first of all run the tape i think that both steven and i said probably a little too late for this right but timing if you're going to do do this uh you've got to know what step two is you've got to know what you do when he does the thing he's going to do because one of which is
Corey
9:41
thank you exactly so which
Corey
9:43
which is what he did and so what the hell happens
Corey
9:44
happens and what are you willing to do are you going to go take the party down like you've got to have some way to follow on the thread or to follow on your commentary and they did not appear to have one or at least they did not appear to share an approach to one because uh
Corey
10:00
uh and so far nothing right and maybe there is something but i gotta tell you we
Corey
10:05
we talked about if he gets through the week he can get through the next few days and he can get through the next few days i think he's
Corey
10:11
he's getting through those next few days like at this point it
Corey
10:15
it just feels like it's irresponsible to continue this fight because they have no way to follow through at this point and they don't have any willingness to find one let's
Zain
10:23
let's let's pick up on that carter Carter, what would, in relatively quick order, make
Zain
10:29
make this rebellion real again?
Zain
10:32
Because I feel like last week they fell on their face. The PM won. He could change the channel with the immigration stuff. He didn't have to give up a senior staff member. He didn't have to give up a chief of staff or anything. He just said, yeah, I'm staying. Thank you for your concern. I get it. I'm here. I'm staying. Right? Like, what
Zain
10:47
what makes the rebellion real again, Carter?
Carter
10:49
20 people going public. public
Carter
10:52
20 people going public together and
Carter
10:54
and saying we're all holding hands and we're all jumping in the drink together um
Carter
11:01
i suggest uh you know a a separate caucus um you know the the true liberal caucus or something along those lines that that would be a means to to show that you're serious but right now you're not serious uh and there's not 20 people who are going to challenge
Zain
11:21
i challenge you on this and corey feel free to get in on this as well if you've got a reaction was 20 people going public last week's bar do you feel like the bar has been raised for this group this week in order to make the rebellion real no
Carter
11:34
no i mean it's you know how quickly we forget it was only wednesday of last week when they were in the caucus meeting this
Carter
11:41
this could happen this week if it happened tomorrow right tomorrow or wednesday but
Carter
11:46
but everybody has to be willing to hold hands to jump into to jump off the cliff and
Carter
11:51
and i just don't know that there's any appetite to hold hands to jump off the cliff um because once you jump off the cliff you can't reach back and climb back up it right you you are falling into the into the water below and what happens is unknown
Zain
12:10
yeah you are saying that that i'm against this guy's leadership even though he may be continuing to be our leader. I'm
Carter
12:16
I'm not going to put myself under his leadership, right?
Carter
12:20
right? Instead, what you saw was Casey in Nova Scotia, if it's Nova Scotia or PEI, saying, I'm going to focus on my own riding, right? Even he's dropping it, one of the public people. I'm going to focus on my own riding. That's the weak way out. I'm going to focus on my own riding means I'm going to allow the party to sink and- I'm done with
Zain
12:41
with this fight. Yeah.
Carter
12:42
I'm done with it. It's just, it's going to be, if
Carter
12:46
I don't get elected, it's not my fault. It's
Carter
12:49
It's this other thing, but I'm going to do the very best that I can to make it actually happen.
Zain
12:54
Corey, how would you help the rebellion become real again this week? And Carter's right, like to be charitable to this group, it was a Wednesday of last week, a week hasn't even passed, but it seems like it was a lead balloon in some ways. And maybe I'm over-exaggerating and call me out on that if you feel like I am, but it It was not what it promised to be, especially given the run-up, right? The run-up of the hype machine on it was like all cameras on PNP and CTV were pointing towards this caucus meeting for the palace intrigue and the outcome of it, and then felt like a lead balloon. How would you help make it real this week, Corey? Carter's got his 20 public. Look, is
Corey
13:30
is that your tack? I think your point is right. What was required last week is insufficient this week because that's how these things work, right? It requires a little bit more with every week. Now, that's
Corey
13:41
that's why I don't think 20 people going public is necessarily sufficient, because all that does is bring us back to where we thought we were a week ago, two weeks ago, even in terms of where
Corey
13:52
I do think that that next step that Stephen talked about, that independent caucus or something equivalent of that is what's required, right? Right. We're all going to sit as independent liberals or I don't
Corey
14:07
you know, progressive liberals or whatever, like name your caucus, whatever the fuck you want. Right. But the idea being we are going to prop this government up on confidence votes, but we intend to to make sure that we're speaking for the membership and for our constituents. And we don't believe that this prime minister is speaking for either right now. And that has put us in an untenable situation. so I think something like that is all you can really do at this point if you're trying to pull back but again it's just so dramatic and it's so late and I just don't know that there's time for any of this at this point the
Corey
14:41
other thing that really could happen I suppose is it's not likely
Corey
14:47
but I I've heard it said I've heard it said that
Corey
14:51
that money is the currency of politics oh I
Zain
14:53
I think ever I've heard it. I've heard it. I've read it somewhere. On a mug, no less. On a mug, yeah. And I encourage everyone to get one as a holiday stocking stuffer. At westofcenter.ca.
Corey
15:03
.ca. And of course, that holiday is Halloween.
Zain
15:07
course. So order it.
Corey
15:08
You said holidays. You were referring to Halloween and Remembrance Day, I assume.
Zain
15:12
Yeah, that's right. Order it tomorrow to get it next Halloween. Yeah.
Zain
15:16
Okay? It's a print-on-demand mug. You might get it by next October.
Zain
15:21
Corey. Yeah. Keep going with your points. You've heard money is a currency
Corey
15:24
currency in politics. I've
Zain
15:25
I've heard and read the same.
Corey
15:26
So if their taps get turned off, if the money stops coming in, that's another way that a leader can start to feel a lot of sweat. It's different though. It's not the United States. We live in a world where it's really based on smaller donations. So that's tough to orchestrate, but that is something that could be floating out there if the liberal party starts looking at it and saying, fuck, we don't have enough money to run this campaign. Maybe that changes some of Trudeau's thinking.
Zain
15:53
Okay, I'm going to throw out two things to you guys, and I may have thrown these out before in previous episodes where we covered this topic, but I want to talk about their value today, Carter. Yeah.
Zain
16:04
A alternative candidate saying not just that I'd be interested if, in a mealy-mouthed way, an alternative candidate saying I want Justin Trudeau's job, and
Zain
16:15
and I want him gone. on. I want him gone and I want his job. And I'm thinking outsider, sure. Insider, also
Zain
16:23
also potentially true. What is the value of that to the rebellion cause right now? What is the strategic value of that right now?
Carter
16:30
now? Well, one of the obstacles I'm sure that the rebels are facing is, well, we at least know who Justin Trudeau offers. He's won three elections in a row. He can win an election. election, we don't know who any of these other people even are, or if they're willing to throw their hats in the ring. That's why Carney and Christy Clark tepidly putting their toe in was kind of beneficial. But someone like a cabinet minister, an internal cabinet minister standing up, and I could pick on Sean
Carter
17:03
Sean Frazier or Champagne, if
Carter
17:06
if they were to say, I want that job, I think the problem is that there's
Carter
17:12
there's still a lot of criticism of them, right? Like, oh, they're not that great of a cabinet minister. Oh, they're not that great of a person. Oh, they're not going to be able to win an election. They haven't shown anything. So, I mean, outside of the, you know, Pierre Elliott Trudeau coming back from the grave, I'm not sure who would actually generate that kind of gravita
Carter
17:34
create a real momentum to overtake Justin Trudeau's complete lack of momentum. What do you call it when a person's just standing still and not generating any momentum?
Corey
17:47
I guess it's still momentum, but the momentum is zero, right? Yeah.
Carter
17:51
Yeah. So it's a zero momentum because it couldn't even be a negative momentum because that would in fact be a force within the momentum.
Zain
18:01
well, thank you. Fucking science,
Zain
18:07
guess at the heart of my question, and
Zain
18:09
and I know this is a lazy comparison, but I want to ask you who's been involved in like historically been involved in liberal politics, which is how does this go from the anti-Trudeau get rid of him to the Kretchen Martin style, where there's an alternative, there's a unified alternative, there's a camp, there are passionate on each side. And I know it's a lazy comparison in many ways, because the reality is being different but
Zain
18:30
but you see where i'm trying to get to right
Zain
18:33
rather than being an anti-trudeau thing um how do is is it of strategic values for these rebels that i know getting them on the same page even in speaking order and speaking out bravely has been an issue but let's let's extend this question is it better if they have a unified alternative that wants the trudeau job and is like very clearly gunning for it right
Corey
18:52
yeah i just don't think those conditions exist anymore i truly don't like that
Corey
18:57
that my just because of time look my view of this is that there were two very strong wings of the liberal party for many many years going back many many decades which was the more yes conservative wing and the more progressive wing and you had various representatives trade that job back and forth and you also had other
Corey
19:15
other trades that they always did english to french and and turner represented one wing chretien Chen represented another. Martin represented the same wing as Turner. And it all fell apart after Martin because Martin lost the job in a fashion that was unexpected
Corey
19:31
unexpected after doing such an incredible takeover of the party. And I don't mean incredible as in like it's
Corey
19:37
it's amazing or lacking credulity, but it was just like the scope of it was just so total. You know, absolutely total. You had writing associations just
Corey
19:46
completely wholesale turned over. you had national campaign chairs being kicked off and lawyers who had never had any involvement with the liberal party who were brought in by martin's people just coming in and taking those seats and one of the things
Corey
19:59
things that occurred once martin lost was a bit of a vacuum because there just wasn't ready um you
Corey
20:08
you know it's hard to explain but
Corey
20:10
but they're just nobody was ready and i think that that was really illustrated by that 2006 campaign where everybody and their dog ran and Dion ended up winning. And arguably you could say that was a continuation of it. That was also more of like a Gretchenite slash progressive wing of the party. That was a Francophone after, you know, an Anglophone, but in a way it wasn't like it was the first real break from that and it never really recovered. And certainly the decline that occurred between Martin Dion and Ignatiev was so total that But when Trudeau came and recreated the party, he recreated it. And all of a sudden, there was no other power base but his own. And as a result, I
Corey
20:52
I don't know, there's nobody waiting in the wings in the same way. There are people I think of as more progressive or more conservative, but there's not that
Corey
21:00
that two-pole system of the Liberal Party anymore. There is one Liberal Party. It's a much more progressive entity, and it entirely revolves around this man named Justin Trudeau.
Zain
21:12
This is what's interesting to me, because I suspected you were going to kind of say that these two classic liberal polls that we had, P-O-L-E-S, don't exist anymore, and that it's a net new creation. Carter, is there a part of you that also believes, kind of deviating course for a second, that anyone who takes over the Liberal Party is not just oscillating it back to the more conservative side of things, if Trudeau were the more progressive answer in his remaking, but that this is a net new rebuild every time this natural governing party takes power? power, and that there's a chance here that this party, fundamentally, as we know it, as we see it, as we position it, just ceases to exist. If there's no one lining up to replace it, maybe
Zain
21:57
maybe someone wants it to burn to the ground in its liberal and its Trudeau form and start it up again as its own thing. Is that what we're destined for here, potentially?
Carter
22:05
I don't know that destiny is the right word. I think that threatened is more the right word. I think that let's take a look at what's happening around politics these days. In the provincial side, Saskatchewan and British Columbia, a conservative party versus a progressive party.
Carter
22:25
Alberta has now got a progressive party and a conservative party. We are moving away from the model where there is a centrist option.
Carter
22:35
And the Liberal Party was almost annihilated. It almost disappeared. It almost went the way of the PCs. And I think that a case could be made that if Trudeau continues to drive it into the ground, it very easily could go to a small, rump party. And then without a Trudeau style of leader to come in and rescue it, it just continues to flounder. One thinks of the Alberta liberals and how they were once a force and almost won in 1993. 93. But then by the time Corey took over, it was a shell of itself.
Zain
23:17
He just skinned that shell and he discarded it. He said, why do we need anything? Why
Zain
23:22
Why do we need anything here? Corey,
Zain
23:23
Corey, I'm going to come to you in a second. Carter, let me ask that question a slightly different way.
Zain
23:27
As a political strategist right now, Stephen Carter, would you want to to inherit this
Zain
23:33
this liberal party with, name a leader in your mind of your choice, right? Would you want to inherit this liberal party or would you as a strategist want to rebuild the liberal party? What is the more viable and exciting prospect for you? I mean,
Carter
23:47
mean, a rebuild is, a national rebuild is almost so big that you can't do it. Credit to Trudeau. But it's been
Zain
23:55
been done. Exactly. Credit to Trudeau
Carter
23:57
Trudeau where credit is due. Him undertaking that and rebuilding it was substantial, but it also came with
Carter
24:07
with a legacy. It came with his father's legacy. It wasn't a rebuild from scratch.
Carter
24:13
Corey Hogan and Stephen Carter and Zane Velgey- It
Carter
24:17
It had immense star power. Immense
Zain
24:18
Immense star power. We're
Carter
24:20
We're not going to be able to just rebuild it without some sort of massive name. name. Catalyst
Zain
24:27
Catalyst or something. There is
Carter
24:27
is no massive name on the horizon. There's no Paul Martin. There's no Justin Trudeau. There's no Jean Chrétien. There's no even John Turner, for God's sake.
Carter
24:37
There is none of the star power that
Carter
24:40
that lifted the party back from
Carter
24:43
from every time that it has fallen.
Carter
24:47
So there has been no cultivation of stars, no ability for stars to evolve.
Carter
24:52
And Justin Trudeau has has taken it upon himself to rebuild the party but i want to
Zain
24:58
to challenge you you're also the guy who said on this podcast and privately that stars are made in politics they're not necessarily born sure
Carter
25:07
but you're asking for a national rebuild and
Zain
25:10
and you say in that case you feel like you can't just make a star you can't turn frazier or you can't i'm gonna just name anita anand you can't turn one of these people into the heart of a national viable rebuild No, it just feels
Carter
25:23
feels like it would be exhausting. It just feels like it's such a big job because you're not... Rebuilding
Carter
25:29
Rebuilding a party in Alberta, I can see doing that. I can see building a party in British Columbia.
Carter
25:38
Quebec is constantly regenerating new parties and old parties. I can see all of that happening. I
Carter
25:46
can't see a rebuild of a national party.
Carter
25:51
And I think the progressive conservatives are a great example. Their rebuild ultimately fizzled and turned into the Conservative Party of Canada.
Zain
26:02
Before you get in here, what do you think?
Corey
26:04
I think that the Liberal Party of Canada has some fundamental challenges and one thing going for it that that is not a given right and may not exist next election and i'll start with that and that's that the ndp is in many ways in worse shape than the liberals certainly in the sense of leadership right and if the ndp had their pants on if the ndp were ready for the bus i think it might already be done and dusted like the liberal party might be over over but that condition simply doesn't exist right now and there's a bunch of reasons for that and we can probably get into to them but the
Corey
26:38
the long-term prospects are super dark i mean if you look at the for the liberals yeah i mean let's go west to east and carter started this but i just want to underline it bc alberta saskatchewan manitoba across those four provinces there is one liberal elected provincially and that's in manitoba it's fucking one one
Corey
26:58
one across all of those areas there god
Carter
27:01
god it makes you look like an all-star yeah
Carter
27:03
yeah i know right like that was five man oh sorry i forgot about Raj.
Corey
27:10
really wild. And that's an increasingly important part of the country, just in terms of population and weight of the overall political picture. Alberta is going to hit 5 million people. BC is about six, right? This is now larger. When you look at Alberta and BC together, it's
Corey
27:28
it's certainly larger than Quebec. You basically can combine those four provinces I I mentioned, and it's twice the size of Quebec almost there. So that's like, when you talk about electoral weight and electoral math, that's pretty damning for the liberals. They're going to have a hard time winning elections as long as that's their prospects on the ground. And that's the feeder system for the federal candidacies in many ways. And yes, they have candidates in Vancouver, and yes, they can find the odd person in Manitoba, but it's getting a lot harder. And it's getting a lot harder because that infrastructure simply does not exist around them here and
Corey
27:59
and then if you go further east in ontario the liberal party has almost collapsed a couple of times in the past few years and it certainly no longer even seems a given they'd be official opposition right and their vote efficiency is definitely pretty dreadful not a guarantee
Corey
28:16
pablo rodriguez may resurrect them in fact polling shows they might even lead with him there obviously we are seeing some interesting results in the maritimes but the maritimes are the reverse story of those western provinces i talked about increasingly small percent of the canadian population in the canadian picture so the liberals right now to recap are dead in the west they they are alive in the area that has probably the smallest you know long-term vote prospects and and in terms of authority they're in power atlanta canada and ontario and quebec they're just rolling in the dice and it's not impossible for me to imagine that a couple of those roles come up snake eyes and it's fucking over coast to coast to coast for them and at that point what are you rebuilding the national party on top of i think that that's a real challenge and that's a real question for them and i certainly feel that when justin trudeau became the leader yes it was it was pretty amazing that he managed to do what he did but
Corey
29:17
but he did it almost in spite of the liberal party like i don't i don't personally feel the liberal party resolved its fundamental challenges it just elected later right
Corey
29:26
right and that was enough that was enough but
Corey
29:29
but i don't know absent the trudeau
Corey
29:32
that they really have anything right now and you know the thing that they have going for them again is that the ndp are maybe in weaker in straits but hey
Corey
29:41
hey uh you know ndp could be just one good leader away from supplanting the liberals federally and if that happens i don't know if the liberals ever come back carter
Zain
29:50
carter do you think the new democrats have a stronger brand than the liberals right now i think that
Carter
29:55
that they have they have at least ground or
Corey
29:58
you know it's tough because we're westerners and like the liberals don't exist in the west anymore right true
Carter
30:06
was just going to say they don't necessarily have a more desirable brand but they have a brand position that you can build from you
Carter
30:12
you know you've got the provincial parties parties in British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, that is something to grow from. You've got something vaguely resembling a provincial party in Ontario. There
Carter
30:25
There is the opportunity, at least for the New Democrats, to be viable.
Carter
30:30
The question is, how
Carter
30:34
how do you ensure that the Liberal Party is viable after October 20th, 2025? 2025. Right now, it doesn't seem to have much of a future. Even if Justin Trudeau, even if it doesn't collapse, because
Carter
30:51
because he hasn't allowed there to be another process, because he hasn't allowed there to be someone who steps forward,
Carter
30:56
the collapse is imminent. Whether
Carter
30:58
Whether the collapse happens in
Carter
31:01
in November 2025, or the collapse happens in 2026, the collapse seems like it's inevitable.
Zain
31:11
it'll leave that segment there moving on to our next segment our next segment the axe to tax expansion pack steven carter pierre
Zain
31:19
pierre pauliev is pledging to eliminate the gst on new homes sold for under a million dollars if his party wins the next election the conservatives say this move would save canadian forty thousand dollars on an eight hundred thousand dollar house spurred the the construction of additional 330, I shouldn't say not 330,000 homes in Canada every single year. Carter, there's a few things to talk about here strategically. Number one, there's the policy, but number two, Pierre Pauliev, he has gone propositional in the past, but it's been a while since he's gone aggressively propositional on an announcement. What do you think of this?
Carter
31:56
Well, I think that with so many Canadians in the housing market right now, I think that it's an an absolute winner. It's a real shame that the, you know, it really feels like the Liberals housing strategy is to take whatever the Conservatives suggest and do it a year and a half later when they get absolutely no value from it. You know, we've, how many times, Corey, have we characterized the best option for the Liberals is to take what the Conservatives are planning planning and saying, and just to implement that as their strategy. And
Carter
32:30
And I feel like that's the case again. This is a nice, a beautiful little carve out of the GST. It feels more like a liberal policy than it does a conservative policy. And Pierre Polyev is going to be able to make some hay with it. Good for him.
Zain
32:48
Corey, it sticks on the brand of axe to tax. It now adds, this is why it has this segment title. And he literally stood in front of of a podium again today saying ax the tax in this case axing the gst on those homes under a mill what do you think yeah
Corey
33:01
yeah it'll be popular with people looking to purchase houses in expanding markets you think about the 905 you think about all of the new builds that are going up around there that
Zain
33:10
that are sub-million that people can get
Corey
33:11
get for sure because well you look like an infill downtown toronto is going to cost you more than a million anyhow right yeah but absolutely it
Corey
33:18
it is targeted towards i i feel it's crazy that a million is now the area we're talking about there but that it is targeted towards people in those geographies and it makes an awful lot of sense from a political point of view again
Corey
33:33
it does in some i don't know i don't know how i feel about i got to think a little bit more about it right it will walk me through
Corey
33:40
through your feelings like what
Corey
33:41
what do you what do you think
Corey
33:42
what are you debating right now or
Corey
33:43
or internally contradicting well yeah look ultimately it will make it cheaper to buy a new house and that could have a good effect on on the market and unlike some of the other gasoline on the fire decisions that are that are being thrown out there it fundamentally reduces the cost right like we're not talking about finding
Corey
33:59
ways for you to spend more money we're finding ways to reduce the cost at this particular moment and maybe there's something to do that and maybe maybe there's some logic to that but i just i'm very curious to see how the market adjusts in response to this particular policy and and what might come of it and whether it might just result in housing prices going up Because there's a lot of evidence
Corey
34:20
evidence that people are just willing to pay the same amount per month. They just set a monthly, this is what I'm willing to pay. If the interest rate is super low, they're willing to borrow a lot of money. If it's higher, they're not willing to borrow as much. And they've just got a certain amount that they're willing to pay on housing. And this won't necessarily change that. right so i i guess it'll just come out in the wash but the fundamental economics are it'll be cheaper to buy interested
Corey
34:45
interested market players should be willing to sell things if they can undercut and still make a profit at a certain level but i don't know i i really want to see how this one plays out i will say there's an awful lot of tinkering in the market in terms of those government levers and ultimately i'm
Corey
35:01
i'm much more interested in solutions that just increase supply supply at this point. Not make it easier to buy existing
Zain
35:09
What should be the liberal tact here, Carter?
Zain
35:12
What's interesting about this is that he's already announced what he would kill in order to fund this. It's not your standard social programs, although looking at the scale and scope of these things, one may be able to make that argument that it needs to go there. He's saying he's going to kill that housing accelerator and a housing fund, both liberal projects that he calls utter failures. That's what he's going to kill in order to fund this thing, Carter.
Zain
35:36
Where's the soft tissue for the liberals? Or is there none? Do you actually go back to what you said earlier and this
Zain
35:43
this is just about stealing their idea and trying to neutralize it? Walk me through the liberal plan.
Carter
35:48
There's only really, I think, two options. One is to steal and the other is to ignore. and if I'm going to ignore I'm going to follow Corey's path and go down the the only real solution to this problem is supply the problem is the federal government has a hard time stimulating supply I think there's far too much emphasis on affordable housing instead of just talking about just increasing supply in general affordable housing just doesn't feel like it's going to be something that the market is going to support so
Carter
36:20
let's get the market to do what the market does best and stimulate just
Carter
36:24
just producing, right? Just how much, how much supply can we get done in the next two years?
Carter
36:33
You know, put some funding in place for municipalities that are prepared to approve subdivisions
Carter
36:41
subdivisions in less than six months, you know, that are prepared to put housing developments and major developments, if they can get them approved in nine months, then they get this amount of money. All of a sudden, making it so that the real
Carter
37:00
real obstacles to supply, the real obstacles right now to supply tend to be decisions that are being made by municipalities. How can we stimulate those decision
Carter
37:11
decision makers to move faster? And I think one of the ways we can stimulate those decision makers is to put money into the pockets of the
Carter
37:20
municipalities if they choose to actually make the right choices.
Zain
37:27
From your perspective, the
Zain
37:30
the politics here, propositional
Zain
37:35
almost like a campaign style announcement,
Corey
37:40
i think so because there are going to be changes that take effect in december that allow you to get a mortgage that is insured up to 1.5 million dollars and he wants to step a little bit on that he doesn't want the liberals to look like they are now taking initiative on housing so he's creating his own bundle that then becomes well that's the next thing that the liberals need to do that's what the liberals need to figure out and uh why
Corey
38:02
why not like you don't want to risk your opponent all of a sudden managing to turn to advantage and say, you know, like I think generally speaking, Pierre Polyev is doing good on this, but you know, the liberals came through on a couple of policy changes there and it's a little easier for me to consider home ownership now. And so, yeah,
Corey
38:19
yeah, it does make sense that you would continue to push on this if only to remind people of your leadership on this. And I'm not even sure that the things he proposes at this point need to be super compelling. In some ways, I'd say it's kind of like the red book that the liberals had in 1993 nobody read it the volume is the point and just the idea that pierre pauliev is a guy with a lot of ideas on housing is not something that hurts him there this
Zain
38:45
this is this is interesting uh corey carter want to come to you on this does the polyev strategy going forward need to be about low quantity high quality or high volume high quantity at the end of the day how How would you be advising him on these things? Do you want him to be known for multiple things beyond axe attacks, or does everything need to fit into that frame, or are you looking at volume here? Talk to me about how you would be constructing his propositional strategy going forward, whether an election is weeks away or months
Zain
39:16
months away at this point. I really
Carter
39:17
really like the way that he's attacking an issue at a time, right? It feels to me like he's got the axe attacks, and that's the status quo headline
Carter
39:25
headline banner that appears at everything. and then he brings along an idea on housing and another idea on housing and then another idea on housing and they're kind of spaced by two to three weeks right so you never quite you know you don't necessarily remember what they all are but at the end of the day you go wow he seems to have a lot of ideas about housing guy seems to have housing nailed that's what we really need is someone who can make housing happen and I think that that's where he's
Carter
39:53
he's really leading not necessarily because his ideas are the best but because he's got a lot of ideas in certain subsections and uh you know you don't see him necessarily mouthing off on issues that don't matter to canadians housing i saw another poll today housing cost and housing uh
Carter
40:12
uh pricing is the number one issue for calgarians well it's
Carter
40:17
it's the number one issue for canadians and it's not by a little bit it's the number one issue by like 20 points so this
Carter
40:24
this is this is the ability just to dig in on one issue and every two or three or four weeks coming with a new idea it seems to be really really valuable Corey
Corey
40:35
finishes off on this he
Corey
40:36
he is so good at communications strategy right you know in a way that I think politicians often frustrate me because they don't seem to understand what what I feel is a somewhat intuitive concept if you've worked in communications or marketing here but But many leaders ping around and they say, well, I got to have something to talk about. I got to have something to talk about. Today, I got to say something. And it is often just the most random, stupid ass grab bag of things that you would ever possibly imagine. Like I remember the Alberta liberal campaign in 2008, which I wasn't- Like we all do. Yeah, which I wasn't deeply involved in. I was helping out on a couple of local campaigns, but the liberals held a rally on the Saturday day before the vote and they announced some sort of new farm policy and it's like that's that's your closing argument that's what we're going to go with but the reality is they were doing a very conventional thing which is say something it's news people talk about us that's reminding people about us but that's not great like that's not great calm strategy and what pierre polyev understands is that you can have your cake and eat it too here you can make announcements if if those announcements ladder up into broader themes, you get the piece that becomes the news hook, but you don't get the cacophony. Instead, you get the symphony. You get this sense that it's all building towards something that's very logical. And so he has a couple of buckets, right? Axe the tax, build the homes, right? You see them in those little slogans in the YouTube six second ads that he's running all over Canada right now.
Corey
42:12
And he says things that fit into them and
Corey
42:15
it generates the news hook and
Corey
42:18
it allows him to get the earned media that is still telling the story like he's not doing a bunch of stuff that takes him off story he's very consciously doing things that build story and you just don't see politicians do it as much as they should and you certainly don't see them do it as well as he's doing he has incredible communications discipline and i i think that that's going to be a real threat to basically anybody he's running against in the foreseeable future he's fucking good at this like he's really fucking good at this
Zain
42:48
we're gonna leave that segment there moving on to our next segment steven carter will the real slim shady please stand up david eby slim
Zain
42:56
formed the slimmest majority government it's
Zain
42:59
it's happened the bc ndp which when we last left off previously on this program uh
Zain
43:06
they were ahead but they were in minority territory well right now they're expected to form the majority government securing the most uh votes in 47 ridings across the province 46 is needed for a majority uh earlier this afternoon he spoke with the lieutenant governor who asked him to form the next government carter
Zain
43:23
carter let's just start with lessons what are the lessons here that we learned from bc not even eb or um the conservatives but what are the lessons we as political practitioners strategists learnt
Zain
43:35
learnt here from british columbia well
Zain
43:39
start with one Start with one, and then we can ping back and forth.
Carter
43:42
Politics moves towards oppositions.
Carter
43:45
You can be in government, and it doesn't matter how crazy or difficult or bad the opposition is. You will move towards that. I think we see that with Trump and Biden. Biden was seen as a weak president, and
Carter
44:04
opposition moved towards Trump. I think that EB wasn't seen
Carter
44:10
seen as the world's best premier, and it moved towards Rustad. And it doesn't matter that Rustad had a whole bunch of people who were saying a whole bunch of stupid shit,
Carter
44:21
the same way that it doesn't matter that Pierre Polyev has uttered crazy comments. Elections move towards the opposition, and we need better opposition. is basically what I would suggest, because this David Eby government, it almost feels like it's accidental when the victory is so narrow. This isn't
Carter
44:48
isn't a landslide by any means, and there's a lesson here.
Carter
44:54
And the lesson I would take is the same lesson I gave to, or the note
Carter
44:58
note that I gave to Alison Redford when I left in 2012 was, he
Carter
45:02
he didn't win the election.
Carter
45:04
Daniel Smith lost the the election i
Carter
45:06
still think i would think that right now david
Carter
45:09
david abe didn't win this election john rusted lost it didn't quite pick up enough momentum to carry the day and uh uh
Carter
45:18
uh you know what happens in four years um
Carter
45:22
um in four years well if it lasts four years uh because the minority with with our
Carter
45:27
our majority government with uh this
Carter
45:31
could fall just by people getting pissy
Zain
45:37
I like that first lesson, Carter. I like that one in terms of when you finally got to the point.
Carter
45:42
Oh, that's really hurtful.
Zain
45:45
in the most charitable way. You took a long walk, but you got there.
Carter
45:48
It's like asking, it was like one of your questions, brother. That's all that was. My
Zain
45:52
My questions are pithy. That's why this episode is only 45 minutes and we've gotten three topics in, okay? I'm watching these election results. I should be watching football, but I'm watching these election results while we record.
Zain
46:02
By the way, very little reporting in Saskatoon.
Carter
46:04
Saskatoon. They're counting with an abacus. It's ridiculous. I really feel like
Zain
46:08
Hey, Corey, give us another lesson. What else did we learn
Zain
46:14
from the slim outcome, but from the process of what was British Columbia?
Zain
46:19
What is a strategist lesson you will take from
Corey
46:22
think we should all be watching carefully to see if campaigns actually do matter.
Zain
46:29
Well, let me- Okay, keep going. You talked last time about propositional stuff and negative campaigns. This is Bill, I'm assuming you're talking about the NDP, but maybe you're not. Well, I'm talking about
Corey
46:38
about it all. I mean, certainly I believe that parties can position themselves, and I think over the long term, they can change those opinions.
Corey
46:45
But let's be clear. So first of all, the result is about 44.8 NDP, 43.3 BC United, or sorry, BC Conservatives. My bad, BC United doesn't exist anymore.
Zain
46:58
I said yes, even, you know, it's like, that sounds
Corey
47:00
sounds right. When we look at the overall vote, well, the very, very first opinion polls that were done after the merger of, well, the surrender, I suppose I'll say, of BC United to BC Conservatives, Palace
Corey
47:14
Palace had the NDP up 44-43, ResearchCo had the NDP up 44-42, Leger 44-42, like basically exactly where the campaign actually ended up there. and it doesn't really seem that anybody changed their mind i guess over the course of this campaign we had some polls up some polls down we had narratives we talked about things but at the end of the day it was exactly what it was always destined to be i mean within a point of those first polls which is interesting to me right especially when you consider the absolute absolute barrage that was dropped on Rustin, right? And the dossier of all of the- The dossier, yeah. Exactly. All
Corey
47:57
All of that, we were supposed to see consolidation of votes. We were thinking, well, maybe the NDP would shore up with the Greens, maybe the BC Conservatives. There was a lot of conversation and there was a lot of potential narratives, but at the end of the day, it played out exactly as it seems like it was always destined to the minute the BC Conservatives became the only game in town.
Corey
48:18
And that's interesting to me because Because it suggests to me, and this is a bit of a theme from the past couple of episodes, that right now something is fundamentally broken with campaigning. And I would actually say that this election we're looking at in the United States next week is maybe another proof point of that. Because at the end of that day, and we don't know what the results say, but if it ends up being exactly what we thought it would be in April, when there was even an entirely different Democratic candidate, right? Close race, point or two here, point or two there, but ultimately, it
Corey
48:51
it looked like the Democrats were going to win the popular vote by a hair and then be in trouble with the electoral college.
Corey
48:58
don't know. What's wrong with campaigning right now that we seem to stalemate? Is it just that both parties get so good at it that they know how to block each other? Do they
Corey
49:05
other? What the fuck's
Corey
49:06
fuck's going on? Why are we seeing so little movement in campaigns? Because
Carter
49:10
we're not seeing good campaigns, because we used to see good campaigns and we're seeing campaigns that are refusing to step out of the box. They stay in the same box and expect the same new outcomes. I
Zain
49:22
I want you to part that out only for a second, just so I can be clear for the listeners. Corey, when you say campaign, give me a time horizon here. Are you talking about the RIT drop 30, 35-day period? I want to be clear here in terms of, and then
Zain
49:36
Carter, get back on it, right? Well,
Corey
49:37
Well, it's just a little bit pithier to say campaigns don't matter talking about the RIT period but i'll say like the writ period doesn't seem to have i mean we'll see but one of the things is even if saskatchewan surprises us tonight with an ndp government we had almost no polling in saskatchewan so i'm not even sure that i would say that that was like major major changes that occurred within 30 days like i just don't know and um i
Corey
50:00
i just think it's really interesting that we're um it
Corey
50:03
it feels a lot more like sports like it's a narrative generator that we talk about but at the end of the day maybe i'll
Corey
50:10
i'll say this too the alberta ndp were in the exact same boat when you looked at accessible voter universe going into that campaign that's exactly where the campaign ended up at the end of that campaign in
Carter
50:20
in no small car because they didn't take any risks because they didn't step outside of the box that they were that they wanted to be in i mean there
Carter
50:27
there was no recognition that the voters wanted to be led instead it was always a reflection of what the voters already thought i think i think that we need to see see actual leadership in campaigns to actually have campaigns work. I'm so frustrated by this conversation, Corey, not because you're wrong, although you are, but my problem is that I'm seeing, I see the data that you're seeing. I see the United States go through a massive campaign cycle where the movement has been negligible
Carter
50:57
negligible at best, where everybody appears- Billions
Zain
51:01
Billions of dollars for a quarter a point here
Carter
51:03
here and there. Oh, my God. Like so much money being pissed down the drain. But I can't decide, I can't separate whether or not those campaigns are just stalemating
Carter
51:13
stalemating each other. Like it doesn't even appear to me that the Trump
Carter
51:18
Trump campaign has any campaign infrastructure or thought behind it. It's just a massive, I
Carter
51:27
I don't even know how to describe it. This is my point,
Corey
51:30
don't think Kill Tony getting up
Carter
51:31
up on the stage
Corey
51:32
stage and saying Reese's comments is strategy? Is something broken in campaigning? That's the question I'm throwing on the table here. Something
Carter
51:37
seems to be broken in some campaigns, but not the ones I lead.
Zain
51:43
Hold on. Corey, it's a good question. Carter, I actually want to get your honest response here.
Carter
51:48
That was my honest response.
Zain
51:49
response. Do you feel like... I
Zain
51:50
I get it. You're the best. For
Zain
51:52
For sure. With that... You probably, if this was baseball, you'd be an all-star. down right it would be probably bat what 400 10
Carter
52:01
williams style you bet 400 maybe
Carter
52:03
maybe a little less okay
Carter
52:05
bet like 400 is a perennial all-star i'm probably at the 350 400
Zain
52:09
400 is a rarity one person has done it what are you talking about do you not know you
Zain
52:15
you bet you what do you bat like what do you bat in politics
Zain
52:18
350 you're pretty good yeah
Zain
52:20
it's like uh who's who's a 350 batter like an albert pooh holes yeah someone looked that up or he looked at look at who holds bat 350 in his career i don't see you looking at anything i'll look
Corey
52:28
look it up right now okay
Zain
52:30
okay look look tell me someone who bad 350 batting 350 in your career is like fucking
Zain
52:34
fucking high bar carter i don't even know like how many people there are oh
Corey
52:37
yeah he was 296 so
Zain
52:40
pools is like yeah who's a 350 batter oh okay well i think i think maybe we're losing the plot here but no i don't think each room may have been i'm
Carter
52:48
i'm really excited by this part of the conversation yeah
Zain
52:51
yeah i don't need you hey carter okay so here's thing i
Zain
52:54
wanted to actually expand on this answer what what would you diagnose as being broken fellow practitioners like ourselves candidates
Zain
53:01
candidates like give me give me a bit more specific like i get it like you run the best but what if you were to start targeting that and accepting a part of corey's premise what would you say is that is is uh first on the on the list of being of being broken i
Carter
53:16
i think that the number one thing is our refusal to lead i i'm always intrigued by how much we have to lead versus how much we have to follow in political campaigns. Do we want to mirror back what the people want, or do we want to step forward and actually start to lead and take them in a new direction? And I think that those things can't exist on their own. You can't just simply reflect back what people are already expecting. You have to step out and lead in some direction. And I'm fearful that the modern
Carter
53:52
modern campaign has given up on leadership and is governed instead by reflection only, right? Every poll is subdivided and micro-targeted and everybody is put into, you know, a hyper-targeting database. And you don't even go to the doors that you're not supposed to, except in deep canvassing. And even in deep canvassing, you're reflecting back what people want to hear more than you're reflecting back a vision. And I think that people still want vision, but they haven't been given vision by the modern political campaign.
Corey
54:27
This is not dissimilar from a debate going on in marketing circles right now, right? There's this idea or there is a growing sense that maybe segmenting has gone too far and it's not actually providing value. you we've just gotten so obsessed with the game of inches we've forgotten the game of yards and that really good stopping creative really interesting ideas have have gone you know too far to the wayside and and people need to take more chances and people need to say more things and people need to be bold in a way that that they've forgotten how to do because it's so easy to say i've ab tested this thing this thing works pretty good i changed the color and it worked even better so we're going to go with the one that worked even better rather than say there is a
Zain
55:08
a throw it all fucking out and let's do something crazy right
Zain
55:12
there is a everyone has a boss and let the data be the ultimate sort of driver aspect of it right which is that everyone's got a boss which is that if if you know no one rewards you for creative swings per se especially ones that fall flat on their face but if you can use the data to say the data told me to do it the data is only going to tell you to do marginal things a degree or standard deviation one way or the next from the norm, then you kind of lose out on the, I'm not probably
Zain
55:39
probably a poor analogy, but the madman style of like, this is what we need to do. This is the big swing we need to take. And
Carter
55:46
And come back to what we're doing in campaigns right now. Right now, we've lost media. We lost media years ago, but we're losing social media as well. Social media is no longer the means by which we can communicate because it's turned into a trash heap. Meta has moved away from pushing politics at all. So where am I supposed to get my information? If I'm a less engaged voter, where does information come from? Social networks barely exist in the fashion that they used to. I mean, Putnam's Bowling Alone is a great book that kind of started to detail that, what, 20 years ago? These structures, these structures of society that we used to be able to play with within politics and i think i think of the nenshi election to 2010 zane when it was a social media election right i think of the media structures that we were able to take advantage of the the local media of 2010 um you know that local me very
Zain
56:46
very different than 14 years later
Carter
56:47
later and today you know you know when you start a campaign today you're not even thinking how am i going to win the social media war there is no thinking about the social media more because the social media war war is controlled and dominated by bots and and armies that you don't even have access to so why would you even think that way so the natural the campaign infrastructure that thing that we used to build things on when we used to argue do more digital ads do more digital you're buying too much television fuck
Carter
57:17
fuck that it doesn't even exist anymore what are you gonna do buy netflix's television like how the 185
Carter
57:23
185 billion hours were consumed on netflix last year how the fuck are you supposed to break into that how
Carter
57:29
how you know it just it's
Zain
57:31
actually it's actually on the ad supported side of things like i have an answer for you in fact netflix does not sell to to political organizations not because they don't do politics but like you have to be of a certain size in order to sell your advertising to netflix's paid uh ad supported platform which has actually gone tremendously for them in the sense of like uh drawing drawing um customers and subscribers subscribers to right so the the connected TV market is real but it's um
Zain
57:57
um it's different but it's not
Carter
57:59
not real for politics would
Zain
58:02
would you guys would you guys want to do an episode where we revamp from the ground up that what the ideal campaign org should look like oh
Carter
58:10
I'll do anything but I'm not doing it tonight because I'm just in your question tonight's
Zain
58:15
tonight's the only time we're gonna do it it's just tonight's the only time we're doing it so I'm gonna forget okay I'm gonna forget right now let's start right now let's
Zain
58:20
let's move it on Trevor over under our lightning round Steven Carter.
Zain
58:25
Who's going to win the Saskatchewan election?
Carter
58:26
Saskatchewan party. I said it once earlier. I'm going to stick to where I was. Our good friend, Jeremy Nolais does not deserve happiness. It's something in him.
Zain
58:39
Eric Grenier is on TV right now.
Zain
58:42
Any thoughts to give to one Eric Grenier? Grenier?
Zain
58:47
Grenier. Grenier. Yeah. yeah i
Carter
58:49
i have nothing that other guy the guy who looks like me i uh i
Carter
58:53
i have thoughts but i'm not going to say them publicly cory
Corey
58:58
gwynn bat 350 in his career you know i picked up the list and very few people have actually passed 350 there's only five tony gwynn
Zain
59:04
gwynn on the list i feel like that might be my best i was thinking joe mauer remember
Zain
59:08
remember the catcher from the minnesota i don't you guys follow i'm
Corey
59:11
i'm gonna be honest with tony gwynn was the 21st and he's at 338 so So, fuck,
Zain
59:16
330, it's good. I bet there's like 10 people on the 350. Like I said, there's five. And outside of Steven, I mean. Outside of Steven, yeah.
Corey
59:23
There's six, including Steven.
Zain
59:27
Corey, overrated or underrated the peer Axe to Tax Expansion PAC announcement on housing today? Overrated or underrated politically?
Corey
59:35
I mean, underrated in the sense that it just is another indication of things he does so well, right? Overrated in that I don't think that this individual thing is going to fundamentally change the game but he's changed the game so he doesn't need to right he doesn't need to re-change it he's just doing he's
Corey
59:52
he's doing it well and
Carter
59:53
and he's maintained momentum carter
Corey
59:55
carter for you overrated underrated
Carter
59:57
uh probably um overrated uh in in the specific instance but underrated in the uh in the overall execution of a thematic campaign
Carter
1:00:10
campaign i mean the guy has done a hell of a job putting himself at the top of people's lists carter
Zain
1:00:16
carter it's monday by friday is justin trudeau leader of the liberal party and prime minister not
Carter
1:00:20
not only that he's probably taken over this podcast um
Zain
1:00:26
that's good that would that would imply he's either taken on an extra job or he's lost two of them
Carter
1:00:31
them no he's taking on the podcast he's he's
Carter
1:00:34
he's just pissed with us pissing all over him and uh he decides that he's going to take it over now
Zain
1:00:40
He's going to nationalize it. That sounds like a very Trudeau-esque thing to do. Corey, the national podcast program, the NPP, hopefully to be introduced as a response to the GST cut on housing, that actually would be a pretty
Zain
1:00:52
pretty good response. Nationalize all podcasts. Yeah,
Corey
1:00:54
Yeah, no, that makes
Corey
1:00:54
to me. Pay them a lot of money. I'm
Carter
1:00:56
I'm disappointed for how little we'd sell for.
Carter
1:00:58
That's the only thing that would upset me.
Zain
1:01:00
First number, we would not negotiate.
Zain
1:01:02
We'd sell right away. Always accept the first offer. Would we sell the domains back to the country? like would canadians own our domains i guess
Corey
1:01:10
guess canadians would really yeah let's think about some of the domains that might cause the most trouble for canadians i think uh trudeau is fucking you.ca might uh might carry different connotations at that point yeah we have that
Zain
1:01:23
yeah we do i'm sure we own that i'm sure we owe that um uh cory um is justin trudeau by
Zain
1:01:29
by this friday leader of the liberal party and prime minister i mean i yeah
Corey
1:01:33
yeah i i just don't see he doesn't want want to go anywhere and they don't want to do the things that are required to actually activate a rebellion so here we are and i think it's done maybe
Corey
1:01:43
maybe i'll eat those words maybe i'm dead wrong but i
Corey
1:01:47
i don't know like i think that even 20 people saying and we are super serious and we mean it look at us we're all standing at a lectern it's gonna mean sweet fuck all at this point unless they're willing to follow it through with more aggressive action that's
Zain
1:02:00
that's what i always say what goes it carter yeah
Zain
1:02:02
um next episode no let's go house that's good
Zain
1:02:07
that's good let's make sure we get it right before we have trump on yeah on this manosphere podcast okay we got we got to do our part to support this american fascism in in our side of the story i know yeah yeah
Carter
1:02:20
racism is never not funny that's uh that's apparently the lesson that we learned from madison square garden yeah
Zain
1:02:28
we're gonna leave it there that's a wrap on episode 1832 of the strategist my name is zane belcher with me as always cory hogan stephen carter and we'll see