Transcript
Corey
0:01
This is The Strategist, episode 1299. My name is Corey Hogan. With me as always, Stephen Carter,
SPEAKER_06
0:07
Zain Velji. Gentlemen, I
Corey
0:11
it's super easy. It's super easy. All this time, I've been thinking that that was hard. That wasn't particularly hard. zane
Carter
0:17
zane i i actually have to tell you something first of all he wasn't
SPEAKER_06
0:20
wasn't good at it can we talk about how bad he was at it he was good we spent the entire episode there was no energy there was my first time ever it's there's 1299
Corey
0:32
have it was the first time episodes i have ever done it you
Corey
0:36
to those other episodes if you want to record the intro yeah
Corey
0:40
yeah you bring your microphone get
Corey
0:42
a fucking microphone jesus
Corey
0:45
what if somebody was listening listening to the podcast zane no listen what if somebody was listening to the podcast for
Corey
0:51
for the first time yeah
Corey
0:52
yeah and they were only going to give it three seconds before they decided to move on what we call the zane velgey love moment yeah
Corey
1:03
could have been they gave
SPEAKER_06
1:03
gave it a quick uh zvlm as i call it um they'd be like wow this is audio quality reminiscent of the hurley burley a podcast that consistently ranks higher than us us in the radio that's
Corey
1:14
that's kind of and
SPEAKER_06
1:15
and i think the reason i think the reason is
SPEAKER_06
1:17
is because of their poor audio quality okay i'm trying to isolate all the variables okay and i think i think it's it's i tried white last time and it wasn't white so i've isolated that variable no i think it has actually poor audio quality and i think that's the reason that they're above us on the charts so if we don't outpace them with this episode which is going to be a fucking banger okay because Because it's in your control, Corey. It's going to be a banger. Then I'll have to isolate another variable and figure it out. How does that sound, Carter?
Carter
1:47
I'm trying to figure out why there's a harp sitting beside you.
SPEAKER_06
1:51
Is there a harp? Oh, there is a harp sitting beside me. My wife used to play the harp. She still can play the harp.
Carter
1:57
Well, get her down here and let's record some intro music.
Carter
2:01
we've been missing out on this the whole time.
Carter
2:04
It'd be fantastic. A very
SPEAKER_06
2:04
very unnecessary instrument, let me tell you that. Yeah. Oh,
SPEAKER_06
2:10
uh carter what else you want to get out of the way uh before we jump in you
Carter
2:14
you know what i had a week so bad in afl predictions i tied with cory that's how bad my week was i
SPEAKER_06
2:21
recently found out found out that you guys aren't fucking shitting me when you say that there's a whole league you are in a fantasy league yeah no this is news to me this was news to me as of like last week yeah well when cory said oh no this is not news this should not be news it's
Corey
2:36
yeah it's a real real thing yeah
Carter
2:37
yeah you were invited but you didn't you didn't join i don't
SPEAKER_06
2:41
don't know how to use the discord card this
Corey
2:42
this is i don't know if he actually was invited to be fair yeah
Carter
2:47
we thought about inviting you but we chose not to that's
Corey
2:49
that's more accurate yeah
Corey
2:51
well i well we is a little bit of a stretch but yeah
Carter
2:54
yeah ski season's over guys there's
Carter
2:56
there's still two more weeks but i'm not skiing anymore okay
Carter
3:00
so cory you and i can't go skiing this year i
Corey
3:05
was gonna go this weekend too but But I guess it's over now.
SPEAKER_06
3:09
Let's move it on to our first segment. Our first segment, it isn't a deal until Jagmeet Singh sings. That is right, guys. Jagmeet Singh, let's talk about this. Hold
Corey
3:18
Hold on. Before we do,
Corey
3:21
are you okay to do this? I mean, there's only three hours and 11 minutes left before the membership cutoff for the Alberta NDP. Yeah.
Corey
3:28
And I know it's a very tight race. Memberships move themselves.
Corey
3:32
themselves. Listen, Zane, you don't want to
Corey
3:36
You don't want to be complacent. I read in an email. You do not want to be complacent. Let's
SPEAKER_06
3:40
Let's build a winning coalition today, is what I'd suggest. Are you guys in? I haven't asked you. Do you guys want to join? I actually did buy a membership
SPEAKER_06
3:50
you go to Nenshi.ca to purchase your membership? That's not the right way to do it. I heard there are some memberships that don't come from Nenshi.ca. Not as good.
Carter
3:58
Not as good. I bought mine straight from the source.
Carter
4:01
I actually called Rachel. rachel yeah
Carter
4:06
because we're like that right she's like carter there's something like rach rach
Corey
4:09
rach and cart i noticed that she's abbreviating her last your last name well
Carter
4:13
well because people call me carter you know that's
Carter
4:16
that's what people call me
Carter
4:16
so i said rachel carter and
Carter
4:19
and the next thing you know did she say carter or cart carts this story is falling apart it's falling
SPEAKER_06
4:24
falling apart very quickly she said
Carter
4:25
said carter you very quickly you
Carter
4:27
you carts me no that's not right anyways i called her i got a membership straight from the source okay
Corey
4:34
okay yeah i'll tell you something
Corey
4:34
something she wasn't lou protested my membership
Carter
4:37
membership he's like you're not a real new democrat and i said you guys let nenshi run what do you care about new new democrats now there's no blood test so
Carter
4:48
so i'm a new you've
SPEAKER_06
4:49
you've never been a carter
SPEAKER_06
4:50
carter have you been a member in good standing of any political party that you've assisted with that's a serious question in
Carter
4:56
in good in good standing no
SPEAKER_06
5:00
wait can i ask i don't think i've ever asked you this were you a pc member when you helped redford there's
Carter
5:07
there's absolutely no evidence that i wasn't you
Corey
5:11
must have you you bought a membership for that leadership i don't think i did because i don't think
Carter
5:15
think i voted huh
Carter
5:18
to help her at the end
Corey
5:19
if you had lost by a a vote i
Corey
5:21
mean that feels like that would have been pretty good yeah
Carter
5:23
yeah if we'd lost by a vote i still would have said we won but
Carter
5:26
but it was fine yeah we won so it didn't matter i
Carter
5:29
i honestly don't think i was a member of the pcs were
Corey
5:32
were you a member of the wild rose when you know
Carter
5:35
know i was definitely not a member of the wild rose okay
Carter
5:39
oh absolutely not i
Carter
5:42
what would be the point do
SPEAKER_06
5:44
do we want to do a whole segment of the alberta party leadership no i i assume that's
SPEAKER_06
5:49
you're doing on the back nine
SPEAKER_06
5:50
of this episode. They've actually just leapfrogged the entire Alberta NDP system with an Alberta party leadership that was truncated and produced a result, which is more than I thought they would.
SPEAKER_06
6:05
So, Carter, yeah, no, thank you for joining the campaign. Now is not a time to be complacent. I agree with you guys completely. Let's talk about Jagmeet Singh, Corey. Okay.
SPEAKER_06
6:14
Corey, Jagmeet Singh is saying that he has not decided. On whether he'll vote for Justin Trudeau's federal budget introduced last week, this, of course, is an entire episode we covered off where we talked about the highs, the lows, the strategy, the political
SPEAKER_06
6:28
political strategy of the liberal budget trying to go public with some of their political aims and ambitions, quantitative political aims and ambitions. Well, Jagmeet Singh, who's in a supply and confidence agreement with the liberals, Corey, is saying, well, you know, we got the things we wanted. National PharmaCare, it's underway. The school lunch program, it's underway. But there's concerns that we have inadequate funding for national disability benefit. You know, you know, there's other things that we need. There's other things that we need.
SPEAKER_06
6:59
Tell me what Jagmeet Singh is doing here. I actually want to spend a fair bit of time talking about the strategy when people more than likely know the outcome of where you're going to land. Does this song and dance do anything for anybody who's at the heart of this discussion? And we'll get to it in multiple ways. But Corey, give me your sense of what Jagmeet Singh is trying to do, because this is not just a one-off, one article. This is making the headlines in multiple political newspapers, multiple political columns, talking document, oh shit, Jagmeet Singh, this guy, you know, who knows what he's going to do next. What's happening here?
Corey
7:32
Yeah. Well, so much for the no surprises, supply and confidence agreement that said that these kinds of games wouldn't be played, right? But what is he doing? Okay. Let's first of all, isolate what he is not doing. He is not actually bringing the government down, right? And the way I know this, if I'm going to be totally frank, frank is you don't do it on the disability benefit now i'm not saying that the disability benefit isn't important i'm not saying that a lot of canadians wouldn't you
Corey
8:01
you know find in great solace and increased disability benefit but it is not broad based enough on which to run an election it's certainly not one that you are going to use to separate from the pack as you've got uh the conservative saying axe the tax and the liberal saying only axe the tax a little i think is that that their their i don't even know their position yeah that's correct yeah
SPEAKER_06
8:21
yeah it's just a little bit of axing on tax yeah
Corey
8:25
ax some tax yeah you
Corey
8:27
you know and so it's just it's very unlikely to me that this is actually the thing they're going to bring down because you can easily imagine people in that space and just progressive canadians more generally being like what the absolute fuck did you just do here now we have a government that's not at all aligned with our interests and and so that's what What he's not doing is trying to bring down the government.
Corey
8:48
That sort of leaves basically one thing that he is doing, which is mugging for the camera, which is trying to create that drama, trying to have people remember that he exists so that the conversation can come to him instead of it being about Justin Trudeau's budget and Pierre Poliev's response to it, right? It's his way to try to force himself into this story. And on a certain level, I don't blame the media for covering it because I guess, but But on another level, it's like, none of you are this dumb. I know you all know this is not a serious threat. So is there not a way we can bring in a little bit more critical thought and analysis here and just say, effectively, why is Singh pretending he's going to bring down the government? He's not bringing down the government.
SPEAKER_06
9:31
Carter, let's take the media out for a second. Let's talk about the political strategy in terms of what Singh is trying to do, media coverage or not. on um do you agree with cory just on the basics here that he is not going to take down the government like let's just let's just get some table stakes and then we'll build on top yeah
Carter
9:47
yeah i mean how much did we hear about this disability benefit over the last three or four months i mean it just hasn't been something that's been in the public consciousness and you're not going to bring down the government on something that doesn't have significant uh existing momentum um
Corey
10:03
that's I got to say, that is the point. You are not going to have a situation where you learn of the existence of a demand for a heightened disability benefit and learn the government went down on it at the same moment, which is basically what you would have.
SPEAKER_06
10:16
Well, Carter, should he have chosen a better strategy? Should he have chosen a better topic to make this threat seem more credible if we're talking about the politics here?
Carter
10:26
He should have had a strategy that lasted for more than a day.
Carter
10:31
What he could have been doing is signaling this is something that's super important to the NDP, like he did with pharma care, like he did with daycare. And if these things don't get done, then I think that we have a problem with the entire relationship. And he did signal that. He signaled that with pharma care and he got it, right? And he signaled that with the food program that we belittled out out of the budget, you know, a billion dollars for feeding children that really isn't in the federal mandate at all. Not that children shouldn't be fed, of course, but, you know, it's a provincial responsibility. It should absolutely live with the provinces. But he signaled
Carter
11:15
signaled those things, he got those things, and I would argue that he didn't signal the children's lunch program very much at all, but
Carter
11:24
but he still got it. So what the hell is he talking about? boat. He's getting stuff that he's barely even asking for. And now he's going to take down the government on something that no one's ever heard of. It's just not going to happen. It's just absolutely not going to happen.
SPEAKER_06
11:37
Corey, you said you couldn't blame the guy in
SPEAKER_06
11:39
in some ways. Tell me why. And I guess what I'm trying to get at the heart of, and I'll come back to you in a roundabout way around what would have been the topic area you as Jagmeet Singh would have chosen to make this threat more credible. But why can't you blame the guy? And is that like you softening the ground for saying that this is actually a good strategy on his part or a decent strategy on his part well
Corey
12:02
well let's start here let why i don't blame him he he needs to get into this conversation there we talked last time about how the liberals are looking for a five-point bump in the polls i went to 338 canada
Corey
12:14
canada you know uh philippe fournier site and just wanted to get a sense of is there any sense of any early motion on that and arguably there's a point or two that the liberals have picked up over the past month, but it seems to be entirely at the expense of the NDP. Or at least that's one way you can interpret the results when you kind of squint and look at it there. And that's funny, because it doesn't fundamentally change the math. It's still sitting there at like 98, 99% conservative majority likelihood if an election was held today. But that's a challenge if you're Jagmeet Singh. Arguably, as Stephen has said, you have managed to get a few things out of this budget and and this was steven's concern with supply and confidence all along nobody has given you any credit for it and the conversation is entirely about the liberals and the conservatives and what do you do like you almost need people like us on podcasts like this talking about how those big things in the budget that people are talking about we're actually seeing so what the hell is he doing on this other stuff like the chip like
SPEAKER_06
13:20
like this is very meta of the the type of credit yeah
Corey
13:23
yeah sort of i mean like the uncharitable way to say it is he is um having a bit of a pout and threatening to bring down the government because everyone's forgetting about his essential role in this the more charitable way to put it is he is reminding people that he is pulling strings on this particular matter and certainly every article has mentioned the things that he has managed to get out of the budget so perhaps it is good strategy yeah
Carter
13:47
hand yeah i mean i think for me this this was always a bad strategic choice you know a long-term supply agreement was was a bad strategic choice and from bad strategy comes bad tactics and so now he's done a bad strategy you know he's making a bad tactical decision that is absolutely transparent um i if i was in the trudeau government i'd be like go ahead bring us down on this right it you know it is not something that the general population is going going to turn their backs on and say, oh, I'm really glad that Jagmeet Singh has opened this up.
Carter
14:22
I think, in fact, Singh's going to get blamed if this goes down, and this might actually benefit the Liberals. Now, it might benefit the Liberals to the tune of 10 or 15 extra seats, but it certainly wouldn't. I don't think it benefits the Liberals to government. But this isn't a very good strategy. It hasn't been a good strategy since it was first announced.
SPEAKER_06
14:44
Carter, I'm going to stick with you on this. I like Corey's framing. He's trying to get into the conversation. He's trying to take credit.
SPEAKER_06
14:51
Do you agree with that? Do you agree that those goals, at least those goals are noble for Jagmeet Singh? That as the leader of the NDP, that those, despite the fact you don't love this arrangement, that those would be proper political and strategic goals for him to pursue? sure let
Carter
15:07
let let but do it this way then if you want to get into the conversation say i'm
Carter
15:12
not prepared i am not prepared to support this this uh this budget as of right now because you know talk about a weak swing talk about a tepid position on uh on pharma care this is something that we really pushed for and we got diabetes and contraception where's
Carter
15:32
where's where are our um um
SPEAKER_06
15:36
they didn't get diabetes and contraception but i understood yes like they got coverage for diabetes and contra no
Carter
15:42
no i think that jagmeet singh literally got contraception and has diabetes
Corey
15:48
as a result of this budget as
Carter
15:49
as a result of this budget okay
Carter
15:51
yeah bold take don't put words in my mouth saying bold
Corey
15:54
bold take from a curious man yeah there's
Corey
15:57
there's a lot of sugar in the budget yeah it depends
Carter
15:59
lot of sugar in the budget
Corey
16:01
lot of fat a
SPEAKER_06
16:02
a lot of fat a lot of sugar you
Corey
16:04
i'm proud of you thank
SPEAKER_06
16:05
thank you thank you so much i was like what diabetes what's the connection oh there you go after
Carter
16:09
after heart medication go after stroke medication go after there's a million different things you go after antidepressants um okay but you know the political reality is
SPEAKER_06
16:19
is that they they they arranged negotiated that deal together on fire right and i know you're going to go back to the root of it being like oh it's all about a supply okay given the reality of where you are carter if you find the goals of credit and conversation noble and proper what would you have done you can't just be like i'm going to go after pharma care a deal i also help negotiate like that i i appreciate that if that were the reality of the supply and confidence weren't there but it applies it's
Carter
16:45
it's what you have
SPEAKER_06
16:46
have to do it applies to
Carter
16:46
to the whole fucking budget you're in the room for the whole budget being developed right you don't get to say you don't get to say well we're not going to criticize the pharma care because we were in the room when that was developed when the whole fucking budget has been developed on your watch you have been involved in negotiations for months on this budget you put in your red lines you got your red lines and now you're defining something else you may as well define you may as well get the media on something that fucking matters instead of something that doesn't matter quentin
SPEAKER_06
17:18
quentin conversation cory how would you have done it if you were advising sing credit
Corey
17:22
credit conversing i don't know i mean i'm not actually that negative on his ability to try to get the credit conversation at this particular moment. There are fundamental challenges that have led him to this point of despair. But from budget onward, he hasn't done a terrible job of trying to shoehorn himself into the conversation. You go to your beloved National Newswatch this evening, and the first two articles are both about Jagmeet Singh. They're talking about whether he would support carbon tax increases. They're talking about whether he'll support the budget at all. And so I'm
Corey
17:54
I'm not, you know, know, I'm not calling the game. It's one day and it happens to be a very random time to be looking at these things, but he is in the conversation and, and that's not nothing. So this is, I'm
Corey
18:07
I'm not sure that I want to defend this any more than I just want to just not let Carter get away with entirely throwing it into the mud. Cause I don't think it's a great strategy, but I don't think he's done a terrible job post budget of getting
Carter
18:19
getting the whole supply and confidence agreement has has been a disaster you
Corey
18:22
you know i didn't think it would be at the start but i i have to admit
Corey
18:27
whether it was the concept or the execution they have not played that well as the ndp and we do now have a body of evidence explain
SPEAKER_06
18:34
explain to me well because
Corey
18:35
because look where they are in the polls like normally
Corey
18:38
you would anticipate some sort of movement but it seems like they've got a certain group of people between like 15 and 20 percent of canadians who will vote ndp and
Corey
18:48
and that's it right Right. And and arguably,
Corey
18:51
arguably, we've seen in the past couple of weeks, maybe even that's being dented down a little bit as people start saying, well, better support the liberals. And that's not great. And it does sort of look reminiscent right now of the Lib Dems in the UK and how they supported a conservative government and were absolutely
Corey
19:08
absolutely shattered because of it. Right. You know, they were the junior partner. All of the glory went to the senior party. All of the blame went to them.
SPEAKER_06
19:17
Carter, I'm going to ask you the liberal response here. What should it be? The current response is Christopher Freeland meeting with the NDP finance critic. What should the liberal response here be? Should it be more diplomatic, like I just explained to you? Should it be public?
SPEAKER_06
19:33
Should it just be ignoring what Jagmeet Singh says? Because, you know, we all know what's happening here. Is there any threat to them? And if there's no threat, is there any gain to them for going after Singh in some way or for trying to make hay out of this for for their political benefit give me your the optimal liberal response well i
Carter
19:53
i think that you know i don't think there's a real threat because ultimately i think this is mutually assured destruction if sing was to take this to an election i think he gets decimated i think the liberals get decimated and i think that sing is in a position where he knows that um this is the little boy who called cried wolf and uh sing's it's just you know he's screaming at the top of his lungs but absolutely no one's going to be listening to this so meet with the finance the ndp finance critic make it look like you're doing some work like
Carter
20:25
like make it look like you give a shit but at the end of the day i
Carter
20:28
i don't give a shit and in a private meeting with the ndp finance critic i might say yeah
Carter
20:33
yeah you guys have got you know if you want to do this do it we're voting in i don't know how long until they vote cory do you on the top of of your head in two weeks you get your chance to vote but
Carter
20:46
but we're not changing this budget cory
SPEAKER_06
20:48
your thoughts on the liberals and i'm going to dovetail a second question for you as well to start answering um can pure polyam make any take any advantage of this division in the liberal ndp government that he sees so first liberals then conservatives well i'll tease out
Corey
21:02
the conservatives and the answer is yeah there's absolutely opportunity here for him but in terms of what the liberals should do, ultimately, if you know where the new Democrats are, like, let's put it this way. If you believe, as I do, that this is a bluff, and if, like me, you think, well, they are just trying to get the media attention that would otherwise go to you, you can't give them the media attention. You have to make the moment as undramatic as possible. And so I think you do see the liberals trying to do this by saying, well, we think everybody should vote for this budget. Yeah, we're happy to meet with anybody on this particular moment. You don't want to provide that point of conflict that's going to drive the next three media stories you just you rob them of that you make this a not dramatic moment you make sure your caucus knows the same and then at best sing gets a day of this and there's nowhere else for it to go maybe it's this day plus some commentary the day after but there's nothing beyond that and that's probably in your interest if you're the liberals certainly you don't want to make it look like your government is actually at risk and drive all of that media conversation that might again remind people of the New Democrats role in this, you know, in
Corey
22:09
particular introduction of pharma
Corey
22:11
pharma care and this particular introduction of the, you know, this school nutrition program.
Corey
22:18
Now, if you're the conservatives, is there an advantage here? Yeah, I mean, this is the problem with Singh's move here. If you go a week out one way, like to before this all, you can start entertaining arguments like Stevens, which is this entire process has not been great for them. They have not done a great job of capturing political credit. Now, you can argue, scored some big policy wins, probably for the next 30 years. New Democrats will point back to them, especially in 30 years, they'll point back to them. But when you point forward a little bit too, it's like, okay,
Corey
22:50
play this forward. Now you are suggesting the carbon tax shouldn't go up. You're suggesting that the liberal government should go down. That's giving Pierre Polyev so much to work with. You're validating this particular argument for him. You're making it that much less likely that, let's put it this way, you go this far as Singh and say, I don't know if I can follow on these carbon tax increases. I don't even know if the carbon tax is really where we want to be, as so many in his book said. and then you keep supporting it well
Corey
23:20
well you're kind of blowing
Corey
23:21
blowing your own dick off aren't you you know just
Corey
23:24
just you know i mean i think that's a technical term
SPEAKER_06
23:28
that's that's what we would say technical term
SPEAKER_06
23:30
term usually generally used in like the finance world um yeah yeah exactly and
Corey
23:35
and then the the the kind of the corollary there is you've talked about whether this budget should be supported or not and
Corey
23:44
and you have an opportunity for them to say oh the new democrats know it's a bad budget but they're too scared you know like you are you
Corey
23:50
are hurting the liberals you know that that's you're trying to get some of the credit but the main benefactor is probably the conservatives
SPEAKER_06
23:58
carter do you see room for polyev and even if there is should he execute on on that room or is it just better to leave this particular 24
SPEAKER_06
24:07
24 36 72 hour story alone i
Carter
24:11
i i don't think this is playing in his message box i think that this is um outside
Carter
24:16
outside of where he can score points and i think that he's just crushing on the on the carbon tax and and trudeau and sing uh need to be viewed as the carbon tax duo and and they don't need to be dragged into um social policy at all just keep fighting the on the ground that you're winning on um there's no need for there's
Carter
24:38
there's just no need for Pierre Polyev to jump into this fight. They're having a fight amongst themselves. Just keep hammering them on carbon tax.
Corey
24:50
don't know about that. If I was Pierre Polyev, do you know what I would be seriously entertaining right now, Stephen?
Corey
24:56
Supporting an increased disability benefit.
Carter
25:03
Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons.
SPEAKER_06
25:06
Why not? I think I get it. carter doesn't understand so for his sake and the audience to say can you can you explain
SPEAKER_06
25:12
well sure i mean one of the like this is classic kleptomania right like the classic you know someone has an idea i'm going to steal it and i'm going to try to fuck him over i think yeah it's
SPEAKER_06
25:22
it's a little more awkward it's
Corey
25:23
it's a little more than kleptomania you right now if there is a those are carter's
Corey
25:27
carter's words like that's what carter would say right
SPEAKER_06
25:29
right now i understand it fully yeah
Corey
25:32
but pierre poliev if there's a knock against him it's kind of that he's a you know the classic non-caring conservative right and that this is all about the taxes and it gets a great opportunity to say no you know this is about people struggling this is a government that's not done right by people with disabilities and so we agree with the new democrats and we think that this should be about like if you're pierre poliev and you used your pulpit to elevate it and you had canadians everywhere saying this budget's an outrage because it doesn't support disabled people wow
Corey
26:03
wow you've put jagmeet singh in one hell of a box like one hell of a box because then he's got to eat shit and back down from his own ultimatum or his own thing that he says he's worried about and
SPEAKER_06
26:15
and move on with
SPEAKER_06
26:16
game that out for me game that out for me who is jagmeet singh to the conservatives i guess is like the higher order question here right like should he be someone they try to screw over on a timely and daily basis. There's multiple schools of thought of who
Corey
26:31
who he is to them.
Corey
26:32
But they're not trying to screw him over. They're trying to make it so...
SPEAKER_06
26:36
so... They will, but...
Corey
26:37
They're trying to make it very hard for them to continue to prop up the liberals. And if in the process they make people think that they have a heart, I don't know that there's a lot of harm in that, right?
Carter
26:50
I don't like it at all.
Carter
26:52
I just... I get what Corey's trying to do. he's trying to make things difficult for the new democrats but why do i give a shit about the new democrats at this stage the new democrats and the liberals together nobody
SPEAKER_06
27:03
nobody has in his fairness he answered that it's it's by proxy making making the arrangement more difficult the arrangement you hate the supply of money
Carter
27:12
money a year earlier do i hate this do
Carter
27:16
do i hate not going to an election right now
Carter
27:19
like do i want to be in an election next week or two weeks from now i'm not sure that i do you? Interesting. I think I'm pretty happy right where I am, just banging on the drum and making sure that there's a lot of pressure on Trudeau. I mean, elections are dangerous times. Why would I be pushing myself into an election before I absolutely need to? Because
SPEAKER_06
27:39
Because you get to be prime minister early.
SPEAKER_06
27:42
Let's just test some assumptions. We haven't done this in a while. And you've brought up an interesting one.
SPEAKER_06
27:47
If Pierre Polyev could be prime minister tomorrow, if he could call an election tomorrow, should he want that? Carter, I think I'm hearing a no from you. Corey, am I hearing a yes from you? Of
Corey
27:55
course. Best day in opposition doesn't come close to the worst day in government.
SPEAKER_06
28:01
And so, Carter, because I'm kind of with Corey, if Pierre could be PM tomorrow, if we could have an election starting tomorrow, I think the ultimate winner is Pierre Polyev. Every day he waits, it seems like it's the potential to erode whatever image he's built of himself is greater than the advantage he's built for himself over the last several months your
Carter
28:20
your number one issue is the carbon tax you're going to you're going to go into an election on something that you don't really support which is a disability benefit and you're going to and people are going to be talking about the wrong topic this
Carter
28:31
this isn't the time to be playing games this is the time to be putting a putting your foot on the throat of your opposition and pierre pauliev is so close to having the foot would
SPEAKER_06
28:41
he ever be blamed for would he ever be blamed for the government's fall on a disability credit? He would
Carter
28:48
would never be. That would be the focal point of the media.
Corey
28:51
Okay, well, first of all, I don't think so. Just because I don't think that the 1980 election hinged on like the gas tax, right? Which is what brought it down. You know, the Joe Clark government down. But second of all,
SPEAKER_06
29:05
That's the election you may remember where Joe Clark blew his dick off.
Carter
29:12
Thanks very much. Thank you.
Corey
29:15
second of all um wow
Corey
29:19
wow it's gonna take a moment to get past that one uh yeah
Corey
29:23
second of all is
Corey
29:25
is that so bad because you just elevate it to be a bigger thing about affordability like it is too expensive trudeau's
Corey
29:33
trudeau's canada there is not enough economic opportunity for disabled people it has become too expensive for disabled people they're now having to pay this carbon tax Like, you make it into a broader affordability, a broader housing, a broader carbon tax argument. I think it ladders pretty nicely up to things that he's already talking about. And people will forget that that was kind of the, you know, the point within the bigger point very quickly in a campaign. Very quickly. I
Carter
30:00
I don't know. You're building a whole house of cards when you don't need a house of cards. Well, it's never going to happen.
Corey
30:03
Like, we're way down
Carter
30:04
down the theoretical road. You don't need a... I
SPEAKER_06
30:06
just wanted to get your guys' sense on, like, the theory here. You know what? what, I'm going to ask you one more about this, which is, I
SPEAKER_06
30:12
I know the liberals are in a hole. We all know the liberals are in a hole. But the question I have is a very higher order one, which is, who is Jagmeet Singh to the liberals? They have seen this guy as a co-conspirator, in many ways, propping up his government in a formal capacity, but he hasn't taken off.
SPEAKER_06
30:32
And if you're the liberals, are you seeing Jagmeet Singh as someone that you can actually give credit to, that you're able to kind of elevate and pay no penalty for and look magnanimous to? Is that a risk? If you're inside that liberal war room, what's your rule or your line on Jagmeet Singh? How are you thinking of him these days? I know how you think of him in a policy and governmental sense. How are you thinking of him in a clean, crisp, one-line political sense today, Carter? You're
Carter
31:02
You're thinking of him the way the Americans think of Canadians. They don't think of them at all.
Carter
31:08
Right. That is the nature. I mean, he is just not part of the liberals thinking on this. Like all that a new Democratic vote is in this election is a place to park either a wasted conservative vote or a potential liberal vote. And that's
Carter
31:27
that's what I mean, they're looking at it as a vote bank. So you don't lift up the guy who's holding your vote bank. You marginalize him. You ignore him. You make sure that he doesn't get any oxygen. And he got a little bit of oxygen over the last two days. Well, now you got to make sure that doesn't happen again.
Carter
31:46
Good for him. He got some oxygen. Very pleased. Never let that happen again. Corey
SPEAKER_06
31:50
Corey is strategically wise, strategically arrogant, strategically naive. How would you classify Carter's analysis here of what he would suggest the one line on Jagmeet Singh in the liberal war room would be in terms of how we think about him? Yeah,
Corey
32:03
Yeah, I mean, I agree in a general sense. If you're fighting for first, you're not fighting the party in third. It's as simple as that. And it would be a real mistake to be focusing your energy and your efforts on Jagmeet Singh's NDP. And frankly, you would basically be admitting the campaign is over and you're just trying to, you're
Corey
32:22
you're pulling the copper out of the walls at this point. You're just trying to get whatever you can. because honestly if you're all of a sudden worried about whether those votes are going to the new democrats or yourself by
Corey
32:34
by and large and like like focusing fire i want to be clear like we're not even talking about like a vote collapse you've got to give us your votes so that the conservatives don't win strategy which is a pretty classic liberal strategy but actually targeting sing in any way shape or form you're
Corey
32:51
you're in a lot of trouble at that point like the math just does At this moment, liberal plus New Democrat is not greater than conservative. You've got to find a way that you compete for the bulk of the votes. And if you are sitting there thinking about how you manage the Singh part of the equation, you're probably
SPEAKER_06
33:14
Corey, you said you wouldn't focus energy or effort on Jagmeet Singh. Would you go so far as to say any effort or energy on Jagmeet Singh from a political perspective?
SPEAKER_06
33:25
i'm just trying to understand like i get it like the first or third i like it's nice like i get it and make sense but in terms of mind share give me that yeah like
Corey
33:34
you're gonna sit there and you're gonna be thinking about it if you're part of the organizer class if you're part of the strategist you don't want to look like you're thinking about them but obviously you've got to look at some of those equations and how you you most marginalize them from the conversation and most make sure you get credit for all of those things i i think again like i hate to be be a broken record on this, but it sort of depends on what the liberals are planning to run on next election. And if you are running on being the progressive government, and that seems very clear at this point based on this budget, right? Look at us, we're the government that will give you all the things the governor Pierre Polyev won't. You'd need to box out the New Democrats. You can't have them having any of the credit on that front. You know, if you're looking for a different type of election, there
Corey
34:17
there is a different universe where you almost want the New Democrats to get credit for the more left-wing ideas so you can say well we wouldn't have had to do that like imagine a totally different universe i mean right where the liberals are neck and neck with the conservatives canadians generally though are a little concerned that there's too much left-wing policy in the liberals then you could imagine an election where they say yeah okay there was pharma care and there was this money for uh this new program but we you know we only had to do that because the new democrats if you want us to have a government that's a little more moderate you've got to give us a majority government. You could imagine that election occurring at
Corey
34:53
some point too, but that doesn't seem to be the type of election we're in.
SPEAKER_06
34:58
We're going to leave that segment there, moving on to our next segment. Stephen Carter, thank you for that yawn. Our next segment, the great generational bake-off. Stephen Carter, the budget, it's baked, it's out there. It is now being spun. It is now being sloganeered. And I find that fascinating. Every time out of a budget, there's a theme that's trying to be pushed. In this particular case, Carter and Corey, I want you guys to test, give me an analysis on what the liberals are pushing here. And here's the two words that they're pushing out of the budget.
SPEAKER_06
35:28
Generational fairness. Sure. And I'm curious if you like it. Like, I know we talked about it. If anyone hasn't listened to our episode where we go deep on the investments that the liberals are trying to make, whether they, you know, close the deal on telling a good comprehensive story chapter by chapter around one demo group or one sort of core issue or problem, listen to that episode. We won't get into it here. Now I'm talking about the sales of it, right?
SPEAKER_06
35:51
right? Corey, do you like generational fairness as a slogan, as a North Star in terms of what they're trying to sell coming out of this budget? It goes very much to another episode we recorded about Gen Z and millennials, but talk to me about your feelings here. the the the conservatives have had their three words acts the tax spike the hike the liberals i'm not saying this is going to make it into a uh a lectern during an election but it could be one of those test cases where generational fairness uh is something that they're pushing for give me your thoughts on it here's my challenge with it so
Corey
36:24
so you you both know i have 412 children right something
SPEAKER_06
36:29
that yeah yeah like normally
Corey
36:31
normally when i'm having conversations about about what's fair. Somebody is feeling like I've done something very unfair, right? I've taken something from somebody, I've given it to somebody else, that somebody else is generally pretty happy, the first one generally pretty unhappy. And I would broaden that point and say, when you use fairness the way the liberals are, it does somewhat suggest winners and losers, right? And And where I am a bit challenged with that when it comes to the liberals is, and we've talked about this, when you look at their kind of the purest form of their coalition, their 2015 coalition,
Corey
37:09
it was, you know, they were pretty strong across all age groups. And I think that if
Corey
37:16
you get into a situation where it looks like the liberals are making decisions at the expense of older Democrats, this is always the problem with housing, by the way. We've talked about this a hundred times, but if you get into a place where it starts to look like the liberals are making decisions at the expense of older generations, I think they're in a lot of trouble. Those generations tend to vote. Those generations are usually pretty receptive to the liberals, quite an establishment institutional party. So I can't say I love it, but again, I don't have the polling they do. I'm not seeing the things they see. My gut reaction, though, is it divides in a way that is not necessarily going to increase the size of their coalition.
SPEAKER_06
37:56
Carter, top line thoughts. Two words, generational fairness. What are your thoughts?
Carter
38:03
really not very good uh there was a there was a time when
Carter
38:08
when ed stellmach ran on our fair share do you remember our fair share we were talking about uh royalty payments from oil and gas companies we were going to make sure that they were fair because it was albertan's resource that they were taking out and there was a definitive winner and a definitive loser the definitive winner was us, our, our share. The definitive loser was them. They're, they're going to pay more. They're going to pay into it. Generational fairness, Corey's not wrong. Children, children, fairness, fairness is one of those really interesting values that just about everybody shares fairness, but they bring their own perspective to fairness. And so if it's not my perspective of fairness then how is it actually fair right so right now we have a housing debate going on at city calgary where everybody's talking about fairness fairness fairness fairness and it's all selfishness so is
Carter
39:03
is this generational fairness going to overcome that selfishness or would they have been better at saying um something along the lines of you know what's best for you right this This is a best-for-you budget.
Carter
39:17
This is a budget about what's best for you, right? Because then I'm a character in the story, whereas generational fairness, I just don't think, puts me as a character in
Carter
39:27
in this story at all. I don't know which fucking generation I am.
Carter
39:32
You know, maybe you do, Zane, because you're a millennial.
Carter
39:36
But the rest of us, you know, like, is this something that's fair for me or not? I don't know.
SPEAKER_06
39:41
Corey, I wouldn't come to you in a second, but I want to clarify a point on Carter's, like, subjectivity of fairness isn't that a strategic like
SPEAKER_06
39:49
that it that that it because it has an open-ended interpretation of seeing it in your own worldview that it could mean whatever your worldview means of fairness like i know you're saying like perhaps the opposite but i wanted to just push you a bit on that like isn't fairness in its like
SPEAKER_06
40:09
like even in moral sense in terms of what what it means. Isn't its subjectivity a political benefit? And you're like shaking your head vigorously. No to that. Tell me why.
Carter
40:18
Fairness being subjective is not a good thing, because if you're if you're not seeing yourself on the right side of fairness, then you're on the side of unfairness. Right. If someone else is getting something you're not getting. Right. Like I don't get any
Carter
40:31
any any of the pharmaceutical benefits. Right. Oh, it's not fair. Right.
Carter
40:37
Right. It may be fair based on looking at looking at what people need but it's not fair from the point of view and the perspective that i bring right so everybody brings their own perspective on fairness um you know there's that classic uh you know cartoon
Carter
40:53
cartoon of fairness versus equality or whatever it was fairness versus where everybody gets one box to see over the fence but they can't see over the fence one person doesn't need a box one person needs one box one person needs three two boxes That's what this fairness indicates,
Carter
41:11
indicates, that in some fashion it's able to distribute the resources properly and make everybody happy. Fairness is about happiness, and this just simply does not make everybody happy.
SPEAKER_06
41:23
Corey, your thoughts on this?
Corey
41:25
Well, I agree a lot with the idea that the
Corey
41:30
the budget could have been framed in a way that made it more likely that you were going to see yourself in it. And that's generally what we do when we build these budgets and give them names. And the names are usually like so generic that you find yourself accidentally reusing ones used by other governments, like working for you, securing
Corey
41:49
future, all in this together, securing our future, a classic, variants of these, right? Bust out the thesaurus, find a different word for secure, find a different word for future, right? Instead of securing our future, all of a sudden it becomes strengthening tomorrow. They don't say anything
Corey
42:05
or mean anything or they
Corey
42:07
they aren't anything. But one of the benefits of that is, well, the budget is a communications exercise and while the budget needs kind of a key message, I've never been convinced budgets need slogans. right um and i often find that the slogans are are pretty forgettable when you create a slogan like that in particular this idea of generational fairness first
Corey
42:31
first of all i do think that there's a certain i
Corey
42:34
think that it's pretty easy if you're a 25 year old staffer to say fuck yeah right but if you're a 55 year old stephen carter 75 actually i believe 80
Corey
42:46
yeah somewhere around there
Corey
42:48
you're kind of like fuck you not fuck yeah right this idea that all of a sudden there's uh there's somebody who's going to have their hand in your pocket right or otherwise make things difficult for you and i just wonder if it was worth it like does it get you as much as it puts at risk and and are there people now who were not going to vote liberal who are now going to vote liberal because you've used this phrase generational fairness and if the answer is no then i think I think it's kind of low reward, high risk. Because even though I don't think everybody over the age of 30 has abandoned the liberals because of the name of their budget, I don't want to overstate this.
Corey
43:30
It just seems like it's getting you into a dangerous place, right? And a place where you're somewhat exposed when you didn't need to be, right? Because you didn't have to say generational fairness.
Corey
43:42
That has a have not connotation. You could have just talked about the things you're doing for people, making life more affordable, no matter where you are in your life. Here's what we're doing for you if you're 20 and you're at school. Here's what we're doing for you if you're 30 and trying to buy a new home. You're 40 and you've got a kid in elementary. Well, there's your school lunch program, right? Now you're 50. All of a sudden, you've got different concerns still. That pharmacare program is becoming really important to you. and hey guess what here you are at 60 and at 60 we've got between you know cpp2 and all of these other things we're really doing what we can to secure your retirement like there is a way you could have done that with the same components you have in the budget here but
Corey
44:22
but you didn't right instead you sort of carved out and i appreciate that politics is based on wedges but i'll go back to what i said at the start i
Corey
44:30
i don't think this is the wedge you want yeah
Carter
44:33
it's not also a wedge much what you know because because this
Carter
44:37
this is a story you always go back cory always says budget is a communications device and i always say that we communicate best in stories i don't see any stories in my in my bookshelf called generational fairness right it's just it's just not something that's going to grab me and i'm going to go oh that's the one i want to grab from indigo or chapters this is a you
Carter
45:00
you know for me making
Carter
45:02
making my life more affordable becomes a story right
Carter
45:05
right like there's different ways of telling that story and there's different audiences for that story and i just think this this underlines one of the liberals continued failings they don't understand story and they don't understand character and they don't understand how they to put it all in into uh something that canadians will actually hear
SPEAKER_06
45:26
you know securing the future strengthening
SPEAKER_06
45:29
strengthening tomorrow my favorite of course is hardening Thursday. I
SPEAKER_06
45:33
I feel like that is probably
SPEAKER_06
45:35
probably the best. And if Zane Milgy ever runs, the platform will be titled Hardening Thursday. Can you just make sure that the Discord takes a note of that? That
Corey
45:44
That can't be misconstrued, I'm sure. Yeah. No,
SPEAKER_06
45:47
No, Hardening Thursday is correct. Here's my issue.
SPEAKER_06
45:53
I have not seen the liberals try to play ball in a long time. And I like that they're trying to play ball here. I like that they're trying to get into short pithy stories i see the math in terms of what they're trying to do like and i know we said and we probably all three of us to some degree agreed that the execution of the gen z millennial budget was left a lot to be desired but we could kind of see what they're trying to do right um but carter i'm now almost testing and questioning assumptions based on both of your analysis which is they're
SPEAKER_06
46:25
they're clearly trying to frame this as a millennial gen z budget was Was that a mistake or is that something they had to do with
SPEAKER_06
46:32
with this moment in time? And I know we're playing a bit of like Monday Morning Quarterback, but there is something interesting about it. The conventional wisdom says that the political universe does not revolve around Gen Z and millennial. Like, obviously, it's more of a, you know, seniors, boomer. The political orbit is over there.
SPEAKER_06
46:52
Gen X just forgotten
Carter
46:54
As they should be. As always.
SPEAKER_06
46:55
As always. with. Carter, we
SPEAKER_06
46:58
we thought that in some degree, this is what they were trying to do. Maybe even what they had to do. Was this a mistake with a bit of hindsight? No,
Carter
47:06
No, it wasn't a mistake to go after the the younger voters. Younger voters are hitting the sweet spot for liberals.
Carter
47:13
You know, they've got young children, they've got young families, there's there's a whole bunch of things that that you can you can sell that demographic on um the problem was uh you you're saying what the you're you're giving the title of the tactic your your definitive narrative function right the title of the tactic is we're going to go after the generation it's going to be a generational fairness that's what we're going to do well okay but you don't have to name the fucking budget after that. You don't have to name your communication strategy after that.
Carter
47:46
There's a whole bunch of things that you could do that
Carter
47:49
that would emphasize the generational fairness in going after these younger generations that don't make it, you know, that have a story element to it or that will appeal
Carter
48:00
appeal to the people that you're actually trying to communicate with.
Carter
48:04
This is a communications exercise. Corey's right. I hate saying that, but Corey's right. It's a communications exercise communicate for fuck's sake shoulder
SPEAKER_06
48:15
anything else i just
SPEAKER_06
48:16
just saw a shoulder shrug from you i was i just like coming hot coming hot but you've lost steam you
Corey
48:22
you gave me the space to do it but i was like yeah i mean i agree the shrug was like yeah i mean like what are you gonna do look look i mean i could i could get kind of picky about it it does seem a little reactive to me to say oh my god the bottom's falling out with young people there's all of of these articles written about how now there are Canadians aged 20 to 30 who are about to vote for Pierre Polyev. What the hell is happening? So then all of a sudden the budget comes out and it's about generational fairness. That does seem a little reactive.
Corey
48:53
One of the challenges I
Corey
48:55
I have right now in assessing whether anything the Liberals is doing is good or likely to bear bear fruit in the future is probably a better way to put it is it's really tough when a party is only at about 20 in the polls to to know where to from here right because it's like because my first reaction to like oh yeah grab grab the gen zivo well fuck what's that gonna get you even if you're perfectly successful you're not even gonna get your five points that you're talking about right it's just not going to happen um and and so it's hard not to be a little bit cynical about any of these things because none of them on their own seem like they're enough and i guess again that's why i have trouble with anything that looks like it's dividing because it does feel like you are you're kind of pushing all of your chips in on this particular hand and what so what so you win the hand so what what do you get for that so fucking what and
Corey
49:54
and that's a problem the liberals have right now it's not clear to me what
Corey
49:58
what their path to victory is and
Corey
50:00
and if they start doing things that look like they're picking off a demographic that even if they are good at it right even if
SPEAKER_06
50:07
if they succeed it
Corey
50:08
it will not be enough it's
Corey
50:10
it's just hard to look at that and say job well done it is but that doesn't mean it's not job well done when they did that because maybe they're sitting there with the numbers and saying this is as good as it gets this is as good as we can hope this election god
SPEAKER_06
50:22
god God, that sounds so bleak. We're going to leave that segment there. Move it on to our final segment. Stephen Carter, our over, under, and our lightning round. Of course, we do this for you. We do it near your bedtime so you can be sharp. You can have all your devices off. Your watch turns off so there's no distractions. So you can put all your energy and efforts into this particular segment. Stephen Carter, budget slogans overrated or underrated in your mind?
Carter
50:46
Slogans are overrated, but stories are not.
Corey
50:50
Corey, overrated or underrated budget slogans? For sure overrated, for sure. I've seen so many governments accidentally reuse them. It's just kind of funny at a certain point.
SPEAKER_06
51:00
has axe attacks spiked the hype? Would you consider
SPEAKER_06
51:04
consider those two to be overrated too despite their cultural sort of like just pinpoint accuracy that they've hit with? And this is my bias entering that question. But what makes them so different if we've kind of thought slogans and I'm being reductive here overall are overrated? like how have they worked so well the guy literally shows up and says you know six words and and the room goes nuts yeah
Corey
51:28
yeah well part of it is it it does say something the other thing is it captures a bit of the zeitgeist like here's
Corey
51:35
here's the thing about axe the tax that's a slogan the conservatives can use it's not a slogan the liberals can use it's not a slogan the new democrats can use it's not a slogan the greens can use it's their slogan and so i think a slogan that can really only be used by one party just just generally has a better chance at having some you know
Corey
51:54
know a fighting life the second that is not true of generational fairness by the way you could literally imagine any of the parties having a budget called generational fairness with different
Corey
52:03
different things in it but generational fair you could imagine generational fairness being about you know protecting and doing right by our seniors for example that could be generational fairness too So that's not a really great option there. The other is you do have to acknowledge the
Corey
52:18
the power of the rhyme, the short pithy thing. It just works. And it only works for them.
SPEAKER_06
52:25
You know, what's so fascinating, Carl, I'll let you have a shake at this too, is that like the specificity and how small the carbon tax is versus how massively ambitious generational fairness is. And I know this is not a fair comparison. But like generational fairness, to your point, could mean anything. But also, even if it's who cares what jersey color puts it on a slogan, it probably is like a massively ambitious thing to be like, we want generational fairness versus acts one tax that has a negligible, but more than likely, likely positive impact on your life with the rebate like it's really interesting in terms of like the the honing in and the small versus large and the penalization on large versus versus narrow and once again i know that's simplistic too carter what makes axe attacks spike the hike work well
Carter
53:10
well i think that people are able to focus on small ideas and small things like when when uh you look at the dunning-kruger effect uh one of my very favorite things in the whole world uh there's the peak of amount stupid right and you don't need to understand very much to be in favor of axing the tax you just need to know one thing ax the tax right
Carter
53:30
right and and knowing one fact as we've demonstrated on this podcast time
Carter
53:34
time and again by just having cory as as a strategist is
Carter
53:38
is is a powerful powerful tool
Carter
53:42
um when applied properly just knowing one thing
Carter
53:46
you can have all the confidence of a cory hogan and
Carter
53:48
and that my friends is a lot of confidence incredible
SPEAKER_06
53:51
incredible amounts of confidence incredible amounts of confidence hey cory um and my next question here overrated or underrated jagmeet singh being non-committal on keeping the scheduled raise on the carbon tax uh he's he's been a bit mealy mouth and then he's been kind of flip floppy overrated or underrated at the end of the day. Jagmeet Singh stands on this.
Corey
54:16
I understand that he's going for kind of a strategic ambivalence where he's got all sorts of options going forward, depending on how things unfold. Or at least I understand that's what he's trying to do here. But unfortunately for him, he is kind of synonymous thanks to years of conservative branding and the simple reality that his party has propped up the government on carbon tax increases ones that have actually occurred and this is not going to be an election where people are talking about hypothetical future rebates i mean yes people will talk about how they might grow but people will be talking about the actual the
Corey
54:53
the actual tax as it is right like the actual tax the actual rebate structure as it is not the one that you know might be scary in them in the future and so i just don't think it's going to work for him i think all that's going to happen is he's going to undercut people's confidence in the carbon tax and it's still going to stick to the new democrats to a certain extent like imagine a local debate imagine it's a three way race liberal conservative new democrat and you have the conservative saying ax the tax
Corey
55:21
right and you have the liberal saying the tax is the right thing the rebate is actually good for you you're better off and
Corey
55:27
and then you have the new democrat saying what
Corey
55:31
like they can't like they're They're like, it was good to this level, but no further. No comment on whether the rebate is actually bigger or not. Like, how does that work? Like, what a nightmare of a message track. And yeah, you don't want to be in that space at all. You don't want to be in the conservative space on this thing, and you're going to try to change the subject. But it feels like it's too big of an issue to be that flimsy on, right? Just pick a side and move on with your life. But to be in the middle, you're just going to take it from both sides. it's
SPEAKER_06
56:00
carter overrated underrated his non-committal stands on the carbon tax increase uh
Carter
56:04
uh non-committal i mean it just seems i i can't possibly have an opinion if jugmeet singh doesn't have an opinion you know like he's my leader he's the person i follow now that i've bought a new democratic party member yeah that's right
SPEAKER_06
56:19
carter okay let me let me move on to our next one because we're getting nothing out of you this clarity that i was expecting No, I got it, too. Disclarity of mind, I was expecting. I'm really not getting. Carter,
SPEAKER_06
56:31
Carter, Bill Morneau was slamming Christopher Freeland's budget as a threat to investment, economic growth. Are you in or are you out on recently has been politicians talking smack against their own party?
SPEAKER_06
56:46
party? Or in his case, maybe former party. Like we don't really know where he stands. He didn't leave in like such happy circumstances. Are you in or are you out? do you like the smack the trash talk uh are you like a kevin garnett fan when it comes to this sort of stuff or are you out on this sort of behavior and are you more of like the classic statesman like you know as soon as you leave you shut the fuck up listen
Carter
57:07
listen uh it would be hypocritical for me to tell anybody when they leave they should shut the fuck up um so naturally what i'm going to say is when you leave you should shut the fuck up that's
SPEAKER_06
57:18
that's about right yeah
SPEAKER_06
57:19
Corey, are you in or are you out on Morneau trying to do some NBA 2K smack talk against Freeland?
Corey
57:28
Yeah, it's an interesting one. I actually think he is given a respectful amount of time that his opinion shouldn't be disallowed. I think it's a bit of a joke, right? And I don't think he's hurting the liberals by him, the guy that the liberals didn't want as finance minister anymore, basically, coming in with his piles of wealth and suggesting this is a bad thing. He might even be right from a financial perspective, but he kind of plays to a type, and I don't think he's hurting the Liberals. But it's fine that he's talking, in my opinion, just fine.
Corey
58:01
McKenna talks all the time about the deficiencies that the Liberals have on the environment, and she left under much better circumstances. You don't give up having opinions when you retire from elected life.
SPEAKER_06
58:14
Carter, take us local. Is upzoning going to happen here in Calgary? how
Carter
58:18
would i know i'm just a guy you know i've not been doing anything yes it's going to be fine has
Corey
58:24
has singh told you what to do oh
SPEAKER_06
58:26
oh carter okay carter we we literally we literally were just oh my god jesus christ read the cues man read the cues now can we
Carter
58:35
we retape that let's do it again yeah
SPEAKER_06
58:38
yeah let's do it again carter uh take us local is uh is upzoning rezoning whatever you call it But is it going to happen here?
Carter
58:45
Listen, who am I to be committed to any of this? Yeah, it's going to happen.
SPEAKER_06
58:53
We're going to leave it there. That's a wrap on episode 1299 of The Strategist. My name is Dave Belger. With me, as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan, and we will see you next time.
Corey
59:07
You didn't want me to play the big showstopper number from Act 1 of The Strategist, the musical? Oh,
Carter
59:13
yeah, I think we should tease
SPEAKER_06
59:14
tease them with it, tease them with it, and then we sell it to them afterwards.
SPEAKER_03
59:57
is the currency of politics Money
SPEAKER_03
1:00:04
is what we need to do about politics tricks
SPEAKER_03
1:00:10
Money is the currency of politics
SPEAKER_03
1:00:17
Money have enough and the campaign just clicks
SPEAKER_04
1:00:38
important platform plank Money,
SPEAKER_04
1:00:43
you gotta pay for that lit drop Money,
SPEAKER_04
1:00:50
get some and watch your campaign pop But
SPEAKER_01
1:01:36
Money is the currency of politics, money's
SPEAKER_01
1:01:39
money's what we need to do our politricks
SPEAKER_01
1:01:50
is the currency of politics, money
SPEAKER_01
1:01:53
money have enough and the campaign just clicks
SPEAKER_04
1:02:19
really need some money
SPEAKER_04
1:02:22
I got a campaign to run