Episode 1298: Blues Guy City

Zain 0:01

This is a strategist episode 1298. My name is Zain Velji with me as always Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter. Guys, I was worried we were not going to be recording anymore. The band was breaking up, but you can't break these guys up.

Corey 0:12

up. You can't break. We were really quite

Corey 0:14

quite quite divided over the new slogan for the city of Calgary.

Carter 0:18

Calgary. Yeah, there's some anger issues.

Corey 0:21

hey, I like it. No,

Corey 0:22

No, because I'm not a hater. Stephen Carter doesn't like it. He likes one of the other ideas that was on the table early that I don't like. Yeah,

Corey 0:30

i have taste okay so not because i'm

Zain 0:31

i'm let's bring our listeners in because this is as much as this is a oh no this is much as this is a they're not up to speed i'm not gonna hold their hands them

Zain 0:39

i'm not doing emotional labor for these fucking idiots who are these guys

Corey 0:43

these fucking clowns hi it's good to it's good to talk to you all again it's been a while yeah it's been a while uh no no i don't

Corey 0:50

we missed you this

Corey 0:51

really a burden for

Zain 0:53

here's what i missed here's what i've realized probably

Zain 0:55

probably get the same amount of money if we record an episode or now we should take an entire month off and see if anyone complains and if they do we'll record less than that didn't

Corey 1:03

i so we like to record it but our last couple of episodes have been patreon exclusive we've just you know when when times got tight we said are we going to talk to the people who don't pay us or the people who pay us and we

Corey 1:15

made our choice people who

Carter 1:16

who paid us paid it came Game out on top.

Corey 1:26

That's the new brand for us. It's Blue Sky City? I thought it was Blue's Guy City. That's why I was so excited. I'm

Zain 1:35

I'm sorry, what do you mean? We're saying

Corey 1:37

saying the same thing.

Zain 1:39

Guy City. Blue's Guy City. Blue's Guy City. Blue Sky City. Blue Sky. Blue's Guy. Okay, break down the words elementally. Carter, go ahead. Help Corey with this.

Carter 1:54

Right? That's what it is. Yeah, absolutely.

Carter 1:55

It's named after the blues can in Inglewood.

Corey 1:58

And yet, Zane just said blue

Corey 2:04

sky city. Is that what he said? Yes, that is correct. That's

Corey 2:07

That's not correct, Zane. No, it's blues guy city. I

Carter 2:10

I happen to know I was the only one in the room for two and a half hours. so you two both jammed i offered you guys free tickets and that was the

Zain 2:19

biggest tease of all time that was a very long tease did they end with blues guy city at the

Carter 2:25

yeah no they kept us sitting there for yeah

Carter 2:29

they kept us sitting there a

Corey 2:32

but it's okay because at the end we got we got the chestnut let's look

Zain 2:37

look at now now i want to do some emotional labor because because we're losing the plot here. So, Carter, what was the slogan of our city prior to today? Because we are all, of course, in Calgary. We're now under the blue sky, the heavenly blue skies that protect us. Under

Corey 2:52

Under the blues guy. The

Corey 2:54

guy. Sorry, the blues

Zain 2:54

blues guy. It's a political map analogy. It's a blue map, and there's a guy who's the blues guy, blues guy city, which is what we're under, protected by blues guy. Carter, what was it before, and what is the one that you actually liked? That's what I'm most interested in. Of course, Corey said there was something on the chopping block that you actually enjoyed more than Blues Guy City.

Carter 3:17

It was a long list of things I enjoyed more. But this—we used to be called—it was Be Part of the Energy is the old— Or

Corey 3:26

Or that it was Heart of the New West.

Carter 3:27

Yeah, Heart of the New West was before that. Didn't we have Olympic

Corey 3:31

Olympic City? I don't know what it was before that. Well, we had Howdy and Heidi, the Olympic— Okay, I'm

Zain 3:35

I'm not going to make this a segment, but can we actually talk about this for like fucking five seconds? Do any of these matter? Because Edmonton's has been the same for fucking forever. I don't think they've ever thought of changing it. Maybe that's just an Edmonton way of doing things. Never change Edmonton. But do these even have any impact, Carter, to the brand of a city whatsoever? Well,

Carter 3:56

Well, it is the brand. It's not just a slogan, right? Like a slogan is not a brand. Well, literally,

Zain 4:03

literally, we're calling it Blue's Guy City.

Carter 4:06

Blue's Guy City is something that we can live and something that we can experience. Which, by the way, do we

Corey 4:13

course. Oh, we do? Okay,

Carter 4:14

wonderful. Blue's Guy City. They

Corey 4:16

They launched the Blue's Guy City brand without getting the domain? That's not a

Carter 4:20

a nice problem. That's a big problem. Wait,

Zain 4:23

Wait, is this the only time you were proactive on this podcast by purchasing a domain in advance of me requesting it?

Zain 4:30

I think so. I'm pretty proud of myself. I'm glad we own

Zain 4:32

own bluesguycity.ca. By the way, if it was going to be Blue Sky City, which it is not, just to be clear.

Corey 4:38

clear. It is not Blue Sky City. It is not Blue

Zain 4:42

Why not Blue Sky Country? I feel like that would be way better for a city. Because that's Montana.

Zain 4:48

Because it's a city. Yeah. I mean, I think those are two good reasons

Corey 4:51

reasons right there. No,

Zain 4:51

No, I don't think they are. Why would you narrowcast

Corey 4:54

narrowcast your city to be

Zain 4:55

city? You're thinking of

Corey 4:55

of Big Sky Country, I think. I

Zain 4:57

I am thinking of Big Sky Country, and I'm trying to apply Blue Sky Country to

Zain 5:01

to it. My brand's

Zain 5:02

Yeah, Carter. We could be blue sky country to their big sky country. But instead, we are blue guy city.

Zain 5:09

No, blues guy. Sorry,

Zain 5:11

Blues clues guy city. Okay, sorry. Yeah.

Carter 5:15

Man, this whole kid has changed you.

Corey 5:18

Can I say? You can. Sometimes brands matter. Brands don't matter until they do. There are some brands that just have incredible resonance and really tell the story of the the city or just get adopted in ways that are strange and inexplicable even when they're not particularly elegant or insightful like if i say missouri missouri

Corey 5:39

missouri is the show

Carter 5:42

show me state isn't it

Corey 5:43

it thank you that's the show me state yes

Corey 5:45

i don't even know what that means but i do know missouri

Carter 5:48

missouri that they show their private parts quite a bit i

Zain 5:51

i don't think that's what it is you

Carter 5:53

you don't think so Yeah.

Zain 5:54

No, no, no. I'm Virginia's

Corey 5:56

lovers. What does Joby State mean to you?

Corey 5:57

Well, I'm going to find out. Big Apple, the Empire State. You know, sometimes these things, at one point, probably meant something, and then they just become part of the brand, and then they're carried along forever. And I actually think Edmonton is somewhat close to that with the whole City of Champions, because they've had it for so long that

Corey 6:13

that it's just like, you can't change it now. It would be... You know what?

Zain 6:16

what? Edmonton... It's kind of like a building. day you know what i've got an idea sorry and i know you're you're going through a whole thing but i'm gonna give edmonton a tip which i rarely do okay edmonton here's what you need to do okay you

Zain 6:27

you know what annoys us would annoy us more than city of champions which by the way annoys us a lot is

Zain 6:33

is if you take blue sky country okay if we end up being blue sky city and you guys end up being blue sky country fucking that troll city of champions that's actually

Corey 6:43

actually that's that's pretty pretty good yeah

Zain 6:45

yeah that might undercut what i was about to say country.ca let's buy it and let's forward it to the edmonton.ca home page let's do that oh

Zain 6:53

okay it's good how

Carter 6:53

how much money do we have left cory like not a

Corey 6:56

a lot um we do we do kind of probably

Corey 7:00

probably with the domains thing is we never give them up so we just kind of that that's a bill that increases every year every episode that we go on can

Corey 7:08

can i say about these brands brands are a bit like buildings

Corey 7:12

Brands are a bit like buildings. They have to go through an age where they suck before they become classics, right? And this is true of any building. Any building you look at that you're like, that's a beautiful old building. There were 30 or 40 years where somebody said, what an eyesore. Why did they build buildings like that? We're going to tear it down. And that's true of brands too. And you kind of have to power through the bad brands to get to the truly classic brands. The risk though, is that sometimes they don't come out the other side and that building still still looks like shit yeah 60 years later right so cities do tend to change them up every 10 years or so and not actually get to that classic space because there's the fear that they're just going to carry this dead or damaged brand for way too long and

Corey 7:53

and it is kind of a calgary thing to be like every 10 years we're going to do something new it's part of why i like the the blues guy city brand right and um it's kind of an edmonton thing not to change very much which is part of why theirs sort of works for them too there's

Corey 8:08

there's my meta wow city brand analysis there and also

Corey 8:11

also steven's wrong about not liking blues guy city i

Carter 8:16

i liked i like the confluence brand more that's all i

Corey 8:20

i know confluence brand was bad so one of the brands on the chopping room floor yeah

Carter 8:25

yeah it was a good brand confluence

Carter 8:27

you just didn't see no one even knows the city it was more it was more than just the confluence it wasn't just oh

Corey 8:33

oh let's let's stop let's stop city built Wait, hold on. Hold on. My mind is blown. A city built where two rivers convert? I've never heard of it. We are the only city. Oh,

Carter 8:43

Oh, yeah. Because no other city has a fucking blue sky? Is that what you're saying? No other city has a blue sky? How are you doing this? You're acting like Jesus is like children. It's like talking to children.

Corey 8:57

We're the only city with a blue sky. I

Carter 8:59

I can't believe what's going on right now.

Zain 9:02

Let's move on to

Zain 9:04

segment. Things are tough in the polls right now,

Zain 9:06

but if you become Blue Sky Country, Sohi, it's

Zain 9:10

It's, oh my God. He needs to run re-election on Blue Sky Country. Okay? blueskycountry.ca, forward it to Edmonton Mayor's website, Corey. We're going to make that happen. Let's move it on to our next segment. Well, maybe our first segment and maybe our only segment, Wong Song. That's right. Doug Wong and Christopher Freeland have done it. They have released a budget, perhaps their final budget, Stephen Carter. Carter. It is a budget that has a lot of spending. In fact, some of the spending we already had heard about in the pre-budget announcement. It has a lot of debt. It has a tax.

Zain 9:45

Carter, I'll get into the details in a second, but I really care less about the facts and the numbers, and I'll give folks the numbers. I care more about what we call on the show the emotional truth. How did this budget, Stephen Carter, make you feel? From what you knew the political aims were, which was an elongated news cycle an ownership of the news cycle the liberals perhaps succeeded in the first couple of weeks prior to the budget did they stick the landing with the budget steven carter you

Carter 10:12

you know i think that the problem was that everything was foreshadowed right so everything being foreshadowed um sorry cory's playing with some sort of anal bead thing that's confusing the

SPEAKER_02 10:23

the hell out of me right now well

Corey 10:25

well i don't know why it's confusing you okay

Carter 10:26

okay well i'm sorry about that um it's

Carter 10:29

it's going to be difficult to concentrate here's the thing i expected there to be some sort of uh you know uh penult

Carter 10:36

penult you know like some sort of moment that really captured everybody's attention you know the housing thing unfolded last week pharma care unfolded the week before they were building up to something and then it just didn't happen it was no there was no um you know surprise on budget day uh that made it really unique and or really sold us on the budget budget structure itself. So I kind of felt like a little bit let down by the budget and the emotion of, you know, this is a super important budget that we're all going to pay a lot of attention to. Well, when you pre-launch everything, then there's nothing left. There's nowhere, there's no place to go.

Zain 11:14

Corey, I said I'd give you some of the highlights. I think there was, let me give you some of the highlights and then let you jump in, if that's fair.

Zain 11:21

You know, $52.9 billion more than planned over the next five years in spending. We're looking at a $40 billion deficit this fiscal year, $8.5 billion on spending in new housing. I want to come back to that number because you in a previous episode talked about what an ambitious housing plan would be, and it wasn't $8.5 billion. It was hundreds of billions when we talked about our Gen Z and millennial episode. We, of course, have the smaller stuff, but the niche stuff, right? The school food program, a billion bucks, $500 million from youth mental health. and then, of course, the cost to service a growing national debt, about $2 billion more than it was projected just a few months ago, so to speak. And then, of course, we've got this capital gains tax, which we'll talk about in a second. Corey, those were the numbers, but I'm still going back to the same question for you. How did this make you feel as a political strategist knowing what their plan was? They telegraphed it very aggressively through back channels, through leaks in terms of what they were trying to do on the cycle. Did they stick the landing that was the budget.

Corey 12:23

I think this is a good example of what I've often said, which is never

Corey 12:27

never mistake action for direction. And I think this government mistook action for direction. They took a lot of action, but it would be hard to kind of see a common thread except for we're doing stuff, right? And ultimately, my feeling about this budget is it

Corey 12:42

was a little bit of everything, but not enough to do anything. And certainly that's the headline for housing housing for me, but not just housing. Like, this continues a bit of a trend with the Liberals, including with the pharmacare program, this budget was also including components of that, of course, that it was effectively, you

Corey 13:02

you know, we're gonna, we're gonna start and do a little bit of this thing, but we're not going to do the whole thing. We're not going to do the big version of the thing. And that's

Corey 13:09

that's kind of hard for me to peg down. Like, I can't decide where I feel that all lands on the ambition scale. It's, but it does give a bit of a feeling to me, at least, and maybe you guys will disagree of they started a lot of projects but it

Corey 13:24

it doesn't really feel like they're going to conclude any so

Zain 13:28

so hold on carter do you agree with cory that this was you know multiple files and not enough on each is that how you would read this because they're trying to spin this as maybe not that but saying listen this is actually uh maybe a gen z millennial budget maybe we were a bit prescient in terms of that discussion we had a couple weeks ago right in terms of this is our core demo that we're trying to target this budget with that this was a housing budget another interpretation maybe the number wasn't as high as cory wanted do you feel like this was a lot of files and not enough on each i

Carter 14:05

mean 500 million dollars more on mental health is a drop in the canadian health care budget like it is you know it sounds like a lot lot of money it's it's just simply not a billion dollars for for children being fed um you know i'm for feeding children i i think we should do that cory zane both of you have children take note uh please try to feed your children on a regular basis but it

Carter 14:30

it doesn't really solve the problem pharmacare is the great example and cory bring brought this up pharmacare you know you've got two drugs being or two illnesses or two situations right for um diabetes and contraception well that's not a pharma care program that's a diabetes and and uh and contraception program

Carter 14:51

you know so if you wanted to do a pharma care program you don't need to do it all in the first year you could do uh you know something every two years in your five-year budget projections it would have been very interesting to to put some stuff up there that said this is what we're going going to do the year after the election but instead they did all these little things so much of this stuff i bet you we could have cut cory and i because you know we're fairly talented we would have been able to cut probably 10 billion dollars in spending out of this year just by taking the half-ass programs out um and saying okay this is a half-ass program it's not a real program so we're going to take it out and there's no there's

Carter 15:29

there's no constituency for it for a lot of it you know like the transit spending is is fine right we we are trying to achieve things in the transit spending but with the big housing initiatives do we really need to do the uh the smart home stuff do we really need to do the the energy efficient pieces you know does that all need to happen when we're doing so much else in the housing space and sometimes they say well yeah for climate change we need to do all of that well this isn't the fucking climate change budget budget right

Carter 15:59

right so you needed to take out some things in order to manage your spending and to be able

Carter 16:06

able to actually have some room to maneuver in your last budget which will probably be next one

Corey 16:12

yeah a great great point about the um the climate initiatives and incentives there too and how there's more money is being spent because i think even some of the people this budget would have otherwise spoken to they're going to get to certain pieces and go well fucking of course right Right. And so like some of those people who have drifted from the liberals are going to react a little bit harshly to some of this stuff because it reinforces some of the concerns people have about the liberals in terms of, you know, they're not focusing on the core things. Everything's about climate, all of that. And you can make the argument. I'm willing to entertain arguments that it's not bad governance to go and do things incrementally. But that's not really what this was, was it? This was starting things, starting whole new things rather than incremental improvements to the things that we already have. And I will say, it's not just on the goodies. It's also on some of the things that they said that they were going to do in order to kind of take

Corey 17:09

take action on kind of the fiscal side, for example. simple like the the capital gain stuff not going to materially change our fiscal situation right it's designed to look like a big wealth tax but not really it's going to get accountants busy in certain areas not really going to change a lot of that there similarly the cutting the size of the public service by the number i think it was five thousand or something this

Corey 17:32

this is the federal government it's a pretty big government not really and like through attrition gonna take some time right and And I guess that something that really triggered for me as Carter was speaking is I would describe this budget with

Corey 17:45

with three words. Sounds like action. Yeah. I'm not convinced it is action.

Zain 17:50

Does it feel like action? Because sounds like action has a nice ring to it. But I guess I asked you guys through the feeling, right? And at the end of the day, we talk about politics as being like, this is why I use that term emotional truth with a bit of irony. Corey, does it feel like action to you, though? And do you feel like the liberals may have done enough, despite the fact that we're adding quite a bit of analysis to our answers, do you feel like they may have done enough to affect the emotional mood or the sense of action being directionally correct or enough to start chipping away at a very uphill battle that they need to start making gains on?

Corey 18:30

Well, let me say, I think this ties my two thoughts together here. I think that their communications and their pointy foreheads and their political strategists were kind of geared towards how do we make it feel like we're doing a bunch of things, probably things Pierre Polyev wouldn't do, probably things that in isolation tested pretty well. And I feel that they probably spent too much time there in trying to make it sound and feel like action and not enough time trying to answer the question, what is the story all this action tells? And you can't mistake action for direction. And I do ultimately believe this is a somewhat directionless budget that was designed to feel like a lot of stuff going on. And that's a bit of a miss when you're one year out from an election and when you're down in the polls like this. There's a certain amount of focus the fuck up that's required here. If you're not really going to solve any of these budget problems, why are you tinkering with some of this stuff that you are, right? If you're not really going to bring in some of these programs, why are you raising them just so that they'll disappoint people who fall kind of short on them? I don't know the number is 10 billion, but I do agree with Stephen. If you wanted to take a bit of a critical lens to it, and

Corey 19:43

and I think we have been here, what you would say is, this

Corey 19:47

this doesn't tell our story, this doesn't tell our story, that doesn't tell our story. We're not doing that well enough for it actually to be good for us. Let's hone those things out of it. Let's have ourselves a much tighter budget. And I actually believe it would be a better communications product too, because this is a bit of the kitchen sink approach to budgeting. Carter,

Zain 20:04

Carter, I want to come back to the capital gains and talk about it through the eye of whether it's actually an effective wedge against the conservatives, you know, trying to attack them on saying, oh, OK, well, if you want, you know, businesses to pay less, well, then that's just who you are. That's you already seeing some of that thinking you already kind of seeing some of the prescripted lines that the liberals had, assuming where the conservatives are going to go on the capital gains. I'll get to that in a second.

Zain 20:28

But, you know, there was two pieces of political intel that I found fascinating coming out of the liberals that they wanted from this budget. Number

Zain 20:38

they wanted a 60-day news cycle.

Zain 20:41

From when they started their pre-announcements a couple of weeks ago to budget and going forward, they wanted a 60-day news cycle. They've told political media this actively, on background, that this is their ambition. I want to discuss that. I want to talk about, was that even a realistic ambition? The strategy of letting that out, of being like, this is what we want from it, I find that interesting.

Zain 21:04

and we rarely hear this from governments, but maybe this is because of the nature of where we are right now, that they were actually quite open, once again on background, with with several political media outlets, Carter, around

Zain 21:16

around wanting a five-point bump from this budget by June.

Zain 21:21

A modest bump that they said, this is what we want.

Zain 21:24

So before we dive back into this budget, can we talk about these tactics that kind of like were presented on

Zain 21:32

on background, but pretty much publicly? Like on a couple of media outlets, I was asked about this a few different times being like, oh, the liberals are saying, the liberals are saying. They wanted people to know these two pieces of information, Carter.

Zain 21:43

Talk to me first about the strategy of laying this out, and then talk to me about the realistic possibility of both of those things occurring. 60-day mu cycle and a five-point bump by June. So let's talk about the strategies first of them leaking, talking on background about this, and then let's talk about the actual practicality. Corey, same to you on that discussion.

Carter 22:03

Corey knows I'm a big fan of calling your shot, right?

Carter 22:06

right? Like, there are some political times when and you have to call your shot and uh a five-point bump in a 60-day media cycle that to me just feels like calling your shot and i do think that that also set up why are you a fan of it though walk

Zain 22:19

walk me but why are you a fan of like the owen nolan goal you know if that reference means anything to you right it

Carter 22:26

it means nothing to me well he'll point

Zain 22:27

it was like the point top left this is where i'm gonna go on you i believe was an all-star game and like i had a breakaway and he's like Like, I'm literally putting it there, fucker. And he did. Like, literally puts it on the goalie top left sort of thing. Why are you a fan of, like, that approach?

Carter 22:42

Well, first of all, I just, you

Carter 22:44

you know, I have a tremendous ego.

Carter 22:47

showy. Yeah, and I'm showy. And I think, but I also think that if you do those two things, right, then

Carter 22:52

then you've got the beginning of a narrative to say that it's turning around.

Carter 22:56

We now control the narrative. We are in charge. you know pierre polliev has controlled the narrative for 388 days in a row and

Carter 23:03

we just broke that with a 60-day streak right

Carter 23:06

right we are crushing this we're back in track and

Carter 23:10

and the five point bump that we that we set for ourselves that that shows that you know that that this these pierre polliev numbers are weak we can start to we can chip away at them uh at our pleasure right we said five points we got six we are fucking crushing it right that is a expectation expectation set and an expectation delivered uh

Carter 23:34

if if you don't hit those

Carter 23:37

then what if the message is to the prime minister what

Carter 23:40

what if the message isn't actually to the general population what if the message is to the one guy who can make the decision about whether or not he stays or goes what if he says we're got to make it five points and everybody says you know what let's tell the world and if we tell the world and it helps us and we get the five points great good for us we're on our track but if we don't we need change we

Carter 24:03

need change right now so

Carter 24:05

so that to me is where that's that's the level of the game that we're playing at right now in my mind you're

Zain 24:11

you're you've got a grieve at a grin for the last minute and a half what do you jump in because i feel like you've got a lot to say on this particular topic i

Corey 24:21

i love what steven i'm so distracted by what steven said at the end there that's super interesting the idea that maybe people even know the downside risk so what i was going to talk about is like yeah if you call your shot an airball you look like a fucking fool right we've all seen that guy on the court but um

Corey 24:39

and that's a real risk you're talking about a five-point bump by jew and i've seen nothing thing that suggests they can move numbers in that truncated of a time frame outside of an election just full stop right but if the whole thinking is we don't do five by june it's not working anyways and then we really gotta change things up fuck

Corey 24:58

fuck that's a fascinating idea steven carter you have but

Corey 25:03

but i win the podcast

Zain 25:04

no but you won the podcast tonight congratulations

Zain 25:06

congratulations i'll get to the 60 congratulations i'm really proud of you this is good it was the 1997 all-star game owen nolan called a shot um carter here's the thing let's let's talk about the 60-day media cycle in a second because i i find that fascinating i feel like that's such a bubble strategy i don't even know if it has any value but you guys will tell me i won't tell you uh let's talk about the five points is

Zain 25:28

is are you talking about someone going off book like

Zain 25:31

like off book are you doing

Corey 25:33

That's not what he's talking about. It's brilliant. It was a brilliant insight by Stephen Carter. Can people please just note this? Yeah,

Carter 25:39

going. It's the one time to celebrate

Zain 25:41

it annually. It seems like the only person currently appreciating it right now is Corey. Well,

Carter 25:45

and the listeners. The listeners are getting it. They're not.

Zain 25:47

not. It's a little over

Carter 25:48

over your head, but that's okay.

Zain 25:50

They're not. They're literally creating blue sky country paraphernalia right now, ready to elect Amarjeet Sohi again as mayor of Edmonton forever.

Zain 25:59

forever. That's what they're doing right now. There's

Carter 26:01

one guy who can make the choice to step out and enable the Liberal Party to move past the challenges that they've got. He hasn't stepped out to this point. We've talked about, well, we need a cabinet. What we needed was a cabinet shuffle. Cabinet shuffle is going to move the numbers. Last summer,

Carter 26:20

Didn't move the numbers, right? Well, what I need is a budget. If I have the right budget, then it's going to move the numbers. Okay, sir, we're going to – what numbers do you think we can move on this budget? it well i think we can move um uh seven points five point five points five points but we down for five i think we don't know seven and

Corey 26:36

and you sandbag it to five yeah

Carter 26:38

yeah so let's pull it back because i'm pretty comfortable we can get there so let's let's talk about five and you know what so wait wait let's call our shot i

Zain 26:45

i know i know you're doing a bit of like uh like a one-man monologue here but take me deeper like you think this is actually a conversation that may have happened no no no hold on same we got to stop yeah what do we have to do

Corey 26:55

do and i want you to to explain to me what a two-man monologue is before we go uh

Zain 26:58

uh a two-man monologue let me tell you something it's someone that has a split personality disorder uh who is speaking on stage listen

Carter 27:06

listen i don't like to brag but i actually did a two-man monologue in university fuck you cory hogan that's

Zain 27:13

right carter tell this all i

Carter 27:15

i did all i had was all i had was entrances and exits during another guy's speech and what and the guy lost track of where he was in the speech speech and i wound up having no it wasn't me i was the guy who was giving the speech anyways it was a gong show it sounds

Corey 27:32

kind of like this anecdote yeah keep going okay

Carter 27:34

okay so here's the thing this

Carter 27:37

you have to serve the party as much as you serve the leader right and i think that this is where the the liberals are trying to to get to is they're trying to serve the party and the leader and the leader is saying listen we gotta we gotta we gotta show something we got to achieve something and everybody's like yeah we got to achieve something what is it we're going to achieve and how do we do that we do that by controlling a 60-day narrative and if we do a 60-day narrative what is our reasonable outcome and what's our required outcome if we're actually going to have this man remain the the leader of of of our country well the required outcome

Carter 28:13

probably is a five-point bounce because a five-point balance puts us back into election election hustle and we can do it over an election we've

Carter 28:20

we've got an efficient vote we've got the ability to do these types of things we've done it before let's put ourselves back in the game with a five point bump so i think that that's actually how this is unfolded they've

Carter 28:32

they've sat down they pre-gamed before christmas this is what we actually need to do we're going to tell people that this is what we're going to need to do because if we do it then all the fucking gossip all the fucking moments are gone right the the trying to undermine the leader it's over everybody knows that this is what we said we were going to do this is what we did and therefore everybody has to sit down and shut the fuck up and

Carter 28:58

and if we don't do it well we're fucked it's

Carter 29:01

anyway it's over anyway so we may as well you know call your shot and if you miss the shot it's the end of the game i

Corey 29:07

i think that's incredible and so can i tell you just sort of expand

Zain 29:11

expand you can but before that i need to tell tell you something a two-man monologue is when one person delivers a monologue through another person and the example on monologueblogger.com i'm actually reading direct from the site uh is when doug wong delivers the budget through christopher freeland okay so that is

Zain 29:30

example that they have provided that's

Carter 29:32

that's a pretty good that's a pretty good well i stand correct no problem uh yeah

Corey 29:35

yeah that's fine okay look

Corey 29:39

look there may be a combination of internal pressures internal angst anything and they come to this conclusion we either do this or we're not fucking doing it right and so we're out on that ledge and we go big or we go home this is where the saying basically comes from this notion that it's gonna take a swing and

Corey 29:57

and if you whiff well it's over anyways right and and i actually think what what steven

Corey 30:03

steven has said and when i think about this now and i don't want to overstate it it could also just be gross incompetence let's face it where they think that this is fine but when you when you say i think

Zain 30:13

think just leaking this on background

Corey 30:14

background they say like yeah

Zain 30:14

yeah we're talking about five points and all of that

Zain 30:16

like it may not be as

Zain 30:18

we're talking about here but

Corey 30:19

but let's assume it is calculated for a minute well

Corey 30:22

well then i think it is really fucking interesting because it basically tells us a lot about what's going on in the party in some way shape or form where they feel like they need to give me beyond interesting willing to fail on smart

Zain 30:34

smart or interesting like is it do you do you like it strategically or you just find it fascinating fascinating

Corey 30:42

because i think if if that were the case that tells us that

Corey 30:46

that he is much closer to dead as a political leader than perhaps you know people are talking about generally like if there was the sense that either a you need this or b he feels he needs this his career is that much closer to over than we think because it basically says there's sort of an acceptance of fate here like we're We're either able to do this or we're not, and we're going to move on. And so I find that fucking fascinating. But like I said, let's

Corey 31:10

let's not rule out incompetence. It's also possible that it's just, hey,

SPEAKER_02 31:13

hey, well, we'll just tell people this,

SPEAKER_02 31:15

this, and then they'll

Corey 31:15

they'll think that we're political geniuses, and then we'll go out and we'll do our 60-day thing. And by saying it, we're going to manifest it. How

Carter 31:23

How many times have I told you not to do my voice to me? Yeah,

Zain 31:25

Yeah, that's a terrible

Carter 31:26

terrible- How many times? How many times have I told you that? Terrible

Zain 31:29

Terrible Broadhurst that you're doing there. You astro-masculine.

Zain 31:32

That's not how Benchit sounds. answer. Carter, here's a question for you.

Zain 31:37

Have you had experience with this particular strategy on background, leaking the calling your shot or on background, letting people know here's what we want to do? And tell me the difference between quantitative, which is what both of these actually are, 60 day media cycle, five points. The reason I remember it is because they're both quantitative versus room for error, qualitative, right? Mission accomplished. It's your own banner that you get to to put up whenever you feel like it, your own goalposts you get to move. Talk to me about this. Have you had experience with it? What does it look like for you? And then what's the difference between quantitative and qualitative? And, you know, if we are going down the path that this was a strategic call, then

Zain 32:16

then the room for error here, because it is quantitative, well, it's negligent. There's no room for error, is

Carter 32:22

No, there's not. And this

Carter 32:24

this is why I'm thinking it's an actual strategy. And the places that we've seen it are in leadership reviews. Jason Jason Kenney tells us what the number is that he's going to stay, right? Alison Redford tells us what the number is that she's going to stay.

Corey 32:36

two examples should give the Trudeau

Carter 32:40

keep going, please. But these are the examples of, oh, you know, if I get this, then I will stay. And I think even Mulcair did it. Yeah, and I am listing off a series of people that did not win. but the

Carter 32:56

the overall idea of it was if i tell people what's what the number is going to be if i tell people what the expectation is then i've used the anchoring effect and i've i've managed to to set myself with a with a number that i can actually achieve and i don't have to worry about um you know everybody else setting a number for me that is unachievable or outside of my liability yeah

Corey 33:21

i've got a question on the back end of

Carter 33:22

of that yeah but

Corey 33:23

but that's like so if that's your strategy which is a little different than what we talked about before you pick five points

Corey 33:31

that's a big jump man that's a big jump that

Carter 33:33

that may be what is required to

Carter 33:36

to keep the wolves at bay well

Zain 33:38

well here's i'm actually going exactly where carter was going which is do rather than the question being phrased to go back to carter's one person monologue uh as uh you know hey prime Prime Minister, how much can this budget do us for? You say seven sandbags at five versus, hey, Prime Minister, this budget's going to have to get us five, right?

Zain 33:57

right? It's dictated to you. It's almost negotiated in that sense, being like, if it doesn't get us five, right?

Zain 34:04

the world. There's no path. Exactly. If it doesn't in 60 days or 75 days get us five, there's no path. I know we're going into quasi-conspiratorial state because, like, we're going down the path of this

Carter 34:14

this is strategic. But this

Zain 34:16

this is interesting, right? Like, in that sense, there is a world where this number was not chosen, it was dictated. And I think that opens up a very different sort of like strategic pathway

Zain 34:28

pathway in terms of what we might see next and how hard the liberals try to wedge on some of the things they think are wedges, so to speak.

Carter 34:34

yeah i mean i think that this is where we are is that this is being dictated um i don't know who by i i would probably actually say if it's being dictated by anybody it's probably being dictated by the prime minister himself i

Corey 34:48

i was going to say like

Corey 34:48

like it might be kind of internally because

Carter 34:50

because he's he's you're looking at your numbers and you're like man i don't want to lose right

Carter 34:56

right i don't want to be the one i don't want to lose that

Corey 34:57

that badly i don't

Carter 34:58

don't want to lose to fucking pierre Pierre Polyev, right?

Carter 35:03

that's, I think that that's where he's going to be. I think that this is an internal thing from,

Carter 35:09

from the prime minister. If, if, if, if my scenario, you know, which I've drawn up on the back of a napkin here is even, even closest to correct. So

Zain 35:19

So hold on. Carter, I'm going to give you the same ability to answer the question I asked Corey. He thinks this is interesting, fascinating, if this is indeed strategic. Do you think it's smart?

Zain 35:28

Like, I want to get you on the record on, do you think it's a good strategy? i

Carter 35:32

think it is because

Carter 35:33

because i think that there are we've talked before about you know the unofficial starting gun that went off when um rachel notley was kind of a dead person walking in the leadership um we've seen elements

Carter 35:48

elements of that traces of that in the uh in the trudeau world right we see see people campaigning without campaigning uh showing up showing up at everything you know showing up at every microphone uh and there's a number of people who are doing it so i suspect that the prime minister does not need or want any more additional pressure on what does my political future look like if i'm still 20 points down uh after releasing uh uh you know the budget That's the budget that I wanted, because

Carter 36:20

because this isn't necessarily the budget that the street was asking for.

Zain 36:25

There's so many fascinating implications in terms of like what this means, right? Like if this number is publicly known, and if what we're suggesting here is a version of the truth, then you're going to look at like leadership candidates, you're looking at ministers trying to crawl for space, you're looking at everyone look, checking their watches, being addicted to the polls. Carter, will anything be able to get done? Or Corey, maybe I'll start with you on this one. Will anything be able to get done in the liberal side of things? Will people actually wanting to be pushing forward to get these five points, helping the PM get the five? Or is everyone's individual or secondary agenda going to kick into high gear when they know that this is something so explicit, so quantitative put out there, so to speak? Talk about the team dynamics, so to speak, and speculate about the team dynamics, I guess is the right way to put it. I'll go even

Corey 37:14

even a little bit beyond team dynamics and just say like leadership realities here. I think maybe that would be a consideration and a concern even a year ago. We're way too close now. People

Corey 37:26

People already started to be. Liberals are almost – no, no, no, no. Actually, the opposite. The liberals are almost certainly going to lose the next election. If you are a serious leadership contender, are you actually looking forward to vacating the seat and taking it now and going down with this particular ship? I think a lot of the most serious leadership contenders at this moment, again, my answer would have been different a year ago. They're just like, you know what, Justin can run it into the next election for us here, right? And so I do think some of the dynamics change the closer you get to an election like this. And when a certain fatalism sets in, you got to keep in mind, they've been down in the polls for long enough that they are kind of acknowledging it too, I'm sure, you know, in their dream diaries and in the places where they talk in hushed tones. But here's what's going to happen if they don't get the five points. This is a prediction I have for you. I have two predictions. One is I don't think they'll get five points, although

Corey 38:15

although maybe they'll find the one outlier poll and declare victory. But I don't think on aggregate they're going to get five points. And we're happy to start a polling company

Zain 38:22

company to do that for the PM. To be that outlier.

Zain 38:25

outlier. Absolutely. For the right amount of

Corey 38:27

Yeah. No problem. No problem. Blue sky country

Corey 38:34

staff will be gone, because they were incompetent, and they put this out. I mean, like, some senior staff. I mean, some serious staffing ramifications, where people say, this didn't work. They said it needed to happen. It didn't happen. There have to be consequences. Or he's gone, because he was the one who decided to do this. And it was everything that Stephen just said. So either way, I think like a lack of five points at this point would be a big fucking deal. I do.

Zain 39:00

Carter, Corey's opened up something, and let's just open up another bracket before we close any of them. And I promise I will get back to the... All

Zain 39:08

Yeah, open them all.

Corey 39:08

all. We got to get back to Blue's guy country. I mean, that's at the top. Blue's guy city. Capital gains

Zain 39:13

at some point we will discuss. We're so far away from it. Carter, make the case for me that if you're a liberal leadership hopeful, that

Zain 39:23

that you know what? You actually are looking forward to running in the next election.

Zain 39:27

There's a school of thought that there is no good time, even if you're running it to the ground and get to lead something. Make the case for me. If a Sean Frazier said, you know what, Carter, I think Polyev's going to take it, but fuck it, I think I kind of want to do it.

Zain 39:40

Make the case for him that, you know what, Corey might be right, that conventional wisdom would say that let Trudeau run it to the ground. Why would you get into this? Make the opposite case for me.

Carter 39:52

Well, there's a sense that Pierre Polyev is a historically weak candidate. We can argue that until

Carter 39:57

until we're blue in the face. I

Corey 39:58

I totally disagree. But there's

Carter 40:00

there's an argument to be made that Pierre Pelliev is a historically weak candidate who's running from the right side of the party. And if you were to jolt things, Pierre Pelliev would reduce in terms of his fundamentals and things would shift back. Jagmeet Singh is a historically weak leader for the NDP, which gives the liberals more opportunity to pick off NDP votes and defeat the CPC. And there's also a case to be made that you don't want to be defined for too long. You don't want to sit in opposition or in the government for three years, saddled with all the problems. You don't want to be in a position where you get to articulate all the various solutions. You want to be elected leader by November 30th of 2024 and presenting your first budget in March

Carter 40:57

March of 2025 and then go into the fucking polls on that budget. Right. Like, don't even vote on it. Just go to the polls. And that budget is going to be your your victory budget. And they only know two things about you. You're the brand new liberal leader, and you put forward an absolutely fucking stunning budget.

Carter 41:19

That could be enough.

Carter 41:22

You know, I think that could be enough.

Corey 41:24

I certainly think a lot of politicians can convince themselves it's enough.

Carter 41:28

Well, that's politics, baby. Tell me the but. That's all we need.

Zain 41:31

need. What part of Court Carter's story here do you buy the most and do you buy the least, actually?

Corey 41:38

I guess the part I buy the most is that somebody thinks they can do it. I also think there's another piece that didn't really come up, but is another reason why somebody might do it. And it actually, I'll use Sean Frazier as an example here.

Corey 41:50

He's going to lose his fucking seat in this next election. Like he might not have a chance to be a leadership candidate at all if things are where they are in the polls. And this might be his one and only best chance. That's an interesting one.

Corey 42:18

but like if you're christia freeland you

Corey 42:34

you are in a seat that the liberals are anticipated to be able to hold i believe i'd have to look at i think so

Corey 42:40

you've got if you're no you're you're if you're not what a disaster right like if you're not winning where she's running yeah

Corey 42:46

yeah um well then you start thinking i don't want to be kim campbell i don't want to go down with this bloody ship i'll if there's pieces to pick up after i'll pick them up after right but i also Also, the thing that I sort of believe

Corey 42:59

believe the least is that Pierre Polyev is like a weak candidate. Let me tell you something. I'm going to give you three names right here.

Corey 43:12

All went to Henry Wisewood Senior High School, home of champions and warriors on Elbow Drive here in the Blues Guy City. That's just strong pedigree right there. That dropped

Carter 43:24

dropped like a lead balloon.

Carter 43:28

I am very impressed, Corey.

Zain 43:30

Corey. Give that statement a resuscitation. Hey, Corey, question for you. Let's wrap up the five points, and we'll go to the 60-day news cycle, then we'll go to capital gains. Okay.

Zain 43:41

Who will hold them accountable? When you have this sort of liberal insider say, PMO insider say, that they want five points from this by June, who holds these folks accountable? Do you think they'll hold themselves accountable? Talk to me about the dynamics. I think there's such interesting dynamics here, especially if this is a strategy to hold yourself accountable through the public domain you

Zain 44:00

know what i'm trying to say like broadcasting that we're going to get here and then ling like oh flagellate self-flagellating if you don't like how does the accountability mechanism work for something like this caucus

Corey 44:11

caucus will throw it in their fucking face and just really wreck them on it and i think the cabinet as well although i you know the cabinet if you're not a fool was somewhat involved in this conversation along the way, you know, and our accomplices for you here. But a lot of those MPs who are seeing kind of short futures ahead of them, they will be ruthless on this particular one. You know, this is the kind of thing that for sure actually comes up in a caucus meeting. There are issues, and I think Stephen can speak to this, where caucus grumbles, and you know they're grumbling, and you know they're talking in the halls, and you know they're talking to each other, but it doesn't show up in a caucus meeting, right? Because there's certain like decorum and considerations. And then there are issues where you're like, oh,

Corey 44:53

oh, fuck, this is going to come up at caucus, and there's going to be a lot of people on side with it. And I think that this is more in the latter, you're going to have that kind

Zain 45:00

kind of situation. Carter, this particular part of the conversation, I think is true, regardless of whether this was strategic or pure incompetence, this five point, right? That an accountability mechanism will happen now that it's in the public domain in some way. Talk to me about that. How do you think about that well

Carter 45:15

well i mean i i think of it just the way cory described it i mean this is going to be i mean right now 50 of the liberal caucus is dead right they're not going to get like they're they're they're they're creating uh specialty plans for their own holding onto their own seat but knowing that it's not going to work out for that well for them so if the if there's not you

Carter 45:38

you know and these are people who believe in hail marys by the way these

Carter 45:41

these are people who believe that a leadership change can change everything so they're not just sitting back and saying well we're going to hope for the next time uh half of them aren't going to get a next time and they need two more years a bunch of them need more years in order to get their pensions right like this is a big fucking deal for a lot of people this is their financial future and they're just not going to sit back and allow it to be played with by a prime minister that that said he could get don't

Carter 46:09

don't worry i can can get five points on this budget and the caucus goes okay well you're better yeah

Zain 46:17

yeah that's that's that's interesting uh carter we'll leave that conversation about five points cory 60-day media cycle possible

Zain 46:25

possible and worthwhile those are the only two thoughts i have is it actually ever possible possible standard budget um um news cycle 48 hours 60 day news cycle end to end to be honest this is kind of what we've they've been telegraphing possible and even if it is worthwhile

Corey 46:47

yeah well first ask yourself what does it even fucking mean to have a 60 day news cycle on a budget so we're going to talk about a different thing every day that may or may not be connected to an overall theme like unless there's like super strong theming and it all reinforces the the story you want to tell it's like okay well you're talking a lot people are writing a lot about it one program to the next one program to

Zain 47:08

to the next yeah

Corey 47:09

yeah like but that's just gonna like people are gonna fucking forget you know what i was thinking about here a

Corey 47:14

a couple of days ago even i was praising the liberals saying you know really smart the way they were rolling out items before the budget

Corey 47:21

allowing them to get the space and breathe i don't remember any of them like i like i barely remember one of them right like that like i don't fucking remember well Well, wait, let me just draw your memory. If

Zain 47:32

If you want to rent, your credit score can now help you.

Corey 47:38

That's the one I kind of have from him. Look, I mean, I'm exaggerating. No, I know what you mean. But the point is, they're

Corey 47:43

they're just stomping all over themselves. And I'm actually, I've suddenly become less convinced that it's

Corey 47:49

it's even a good strategy, right? Because I think that all of a sudden, even the things that they thought were good things, we're not talking about today. And we tend to remember the last thing, not the first thing. And so I'll be curious to see how this all plays out. But again, I'll go back to what does it even mean to have a 60-day media cycle? It means nothing if it's not in service of a story that people can walk away with and say, oh, I get it. I get the liberals and I like that. And I just don't get – I don't think they're going to get that from this particular thing. There are things in the budget I quite like. There are. But there's just so much stuff that you can't help but sort of either be overwhelmed by the mass of it or be distracted by the small bits of it. Carter,

Zain 48:28

Carter, one of the things Corey and I both like are the halal mortgages. We're both into that. That's how we're going to start financing our lives going forward, even beyond real estate. Yeah,

Carter 48:39

shawarma the other day. It was great. I

Corey 48:41

I mean, quite a loophole, halal mortgages, I have to say. Well, Islam is

Zain 48:44

is quite a loophole. That's how we should start selling Islam. It is quite a loophole in many things.

Zain 48:49

Yeah, I mean— You should see

Zain 48:53

um okay well i don't know why i had to get so like political about it carter felt like there was oh

Carter 48:58

oh sorry my bad bit of

Corey 48:59

of a twang my bad hey

Zain 49:01

60-day media cycle new cycle possible

Zain 49:05

and worth it same question uh

Carter 49:08

yeah i mean first of all i mean cory's cory's trying to hit uh hit the the home run yeah the home run is to have 60 days where it's all in service of a singular point totally agree with cory that is that is the the level that everybody should be trying to achieve but even if you don't if you're the ones talking for and setting the agenda for 60 days you still set the agenda for 60 days and the other guy's not setting the agenda and you're saying even if it isn't

Zain 49:35

isn't cohesive or even if it isn't necessarily a winner every single day just just so i'm here pierre

Carter 49:41

pierre poliev has not set the agenda for the last two months And I think that that's very impressive. Pierre is now in the response mode instead of the control mode. And that's the first time that we've seen this. Is it better that it services a single narrative? Absolutely. Corey is 100% right. And I do think there are loose threads around this because there's just so many things that they're trying to achieve with this singular budget. But I think that if they could control a 60-day news cycle, then that's great. eight. But there's also some questions on what happens on day 61.

Carter 50:15

Right. Day 61. It's not like you can just stop trying to control. I mean, really, they've got to control the news cycle for the better part of a year and a half. That's that's what they really need to do if they're going to win this election. And they should be doing it with a comprehensive and cohesive idea of what the fucking story is. And we're not seeing that. We're not seeing the story being fully articulated, Corey's not wrong. But they are controlling the narrative. They have taken step one of the baby steps, but they're just not...

Carter 50:48

They're not there enough for the rest of the steps, for the rest of the story, as my good friend Paul Harvey, who I used to... I went to high school with at... You know...

Corey 51:00

You don't remember the name of your high school? I

Carter 51:02

I don't. It was a long time ago. Listen, listen. Ryan Jesperson. Pearson,

Corey 51:05

Pearson, Corey Hogan. Churchill?

Corey 51:07

Did you go to Churchill? No,

Carter 51:08

No, that's not right. You look like

Zain 51:10

guy. Guess where I went to high school.

Zain 51:13

Churchill? Pearson is not the right answer. How dare you say Pearson? That's such a- I said Churchill.

Zain 51:17

Northeast. Like, why would you say that? I would not go to Pearson. Hey, hey. James Fowler? Okay, that's even more racist. Hey, Corey,

Zain 51:26

Corey, Carter makes a good point. There's

Corey 51:29

There's some Calgary deep cuts in this episode. I'm sorry, I'm just going to say

Corey 51:33

Guy City. We don't call it that. yeah blue sky city yeah could

Zain 51:36

been blue sky country

Zain 51:37

uh listen carter makes it actually a very compelling point right

Zain 51:41

right i think i've heard that point control control is the point just

Corey 51:45

just so you're clear yeah no no

Corey 51:47

no yeah i know that's not the point

Corey 51:49

it is the point you

Corey 51:51

just don't like it i

Corey 51:52

i don't know i i actually think this is one of the most overrated and it's like it's like sirens on an Island, right? Look, just look back to in Alberta in 2015, how the Alberta NDP approached it with like an issue of the day. They got the media talking about it every day. They were controlling the agenda every day. Nothing fucking landed because they kept moving from issue to issue to issue with this mad frenetic energy where nothing could actually stick in people's minds in this like extra distracted times we live in. So I think it is overrated. And this is a point of of disagreement, I guess, between me and Stephen here. I just simply don't believe there's a huge value in controlling the agenda like that, unless it's actually in service of something. People mistake the means and the end on this one all

Corey 52:37

all of the time.

Corey 52:39

And I don't think you need to win in June.

Corey 52:42

I don't know if you knew that, but that's not when the election is, unless something unexpected happens. And you've told your opponent you're going hard for 60 days. So all they need to do is wait for the fuck he'd 60 first, and then they can move on with their bloody

Corey 52:54

lives. what i said literally

Carter 52:55

literally what i said and i was so much more fucking charitable to you uh and no charity none i

Corey 53:02

i i just don't i don't think i think the allure of controlling the agenda is like that's that's

Carter 53:09

that's tell you what if they go up five points then

Carter 53:12

then it will be worth it then

Corey 53:16

if they go up five points i will personally apologize to doug for for for criticizing his budget doug

Zain 53:21

doug doug did a lot of work on this budget we know that's why i had to skip out on carter that time that carter you

Carter 53:29

you remember um i

Carter 53:32

you remember the starving children that's

Carter 53:34

that's some good stuff you

Corey 53:36

mean your comment from earlier in the episode i'm sorry what okay yeah okay i

Carter 53:40

i feel bad actually i would like apparently zane

Corey 53:42

zane doesn't yeah I

Zain 53:45

starving children in one ear, out the other. Hey, Carter. Yeah.

Zain 53:50

Capital gains tax, the

Zain 53:52

the increase in it.

Zain 53:53

Yes, of course, it's partially, and from a policy perspective, designed to help pay for shit that the liberals are now adding to

Zain 54:01

to their agenda. Okay.

Zain 54:02

But you can also see what they're trying to do. They're trying to make it a wedge.

Zain 54:07

Is it a successful one?

Zain 54:09

Does it have legs? well

Carter 54:10

it you kind of took your own uh you you took your own legs out when you really emphasize that it's 0.13 percent of the population right you know if you're going to try and create a wedge then put in a wealth tax like fucking

Carter 54:25

fucking make that was going

Zain 54:26

going to be my follow-up would you have gone further on this and would there have been political value to go further on this if you wanted to to fundamentally control the news cycle for 60 days would you have gone as like

Carter 54:38

dramatic cory dramatic is maybe the right word cory

Zain 54:40

cory as a wild tax cory's

Carter 54:42

cory's done polling i've done polling

Carter 54:45

fuck the other guy fuck

Carter 54:47

fuck that guy polls super well it may not be the best thing for the economy it may not be the best thing in society but fuck your buddy is a strategy that actually works works and this

Carter 55:00

this isn't fuck your buddy this is kind of like some

Carter 55:04

people are gonna have to pay more okay

Zain 55:07

yeah i you lost me and fuck your buddy polls well i think there's a lot of code and then and

Zain 55:14

then the sound effect but

Corey 55:16

we're gonna move yeah

Zain 55:18

with a lot of it can you translate for what carter was trying to say here i'm

Corey 55:24

i'm so i'm so like lost and concerned at this point with with all of this but yes i do relate my

Carter 55:29

my watch is turned off i don't even know what time it is i gave you the win

Corey 55:33

win of this episode pretty early and you're making it you're making

Carter 55:35

making me really turn off after a certain time it gives me a bedtime warning and says it's bedtime and then afterwards it turns itself off okay

Corey 55:42

okay well let's talk a bit about where i could not agree more if

Corey 55:47

if you pull people on just personal income taxes you know variations year by year but there's a general truism here which is if you ask people hey

Corey 55:56

hey would you be okay with raising income tax at x as long as x is a dollar more than what they make fucking

Corey 56:04

fucking sure okay make those guys pay right people are very happy to make the next tax bracket shoulder all of the burden right regardless of the tax bracket they're in frankly and so it's pretty easy for a political party to sit there and sort sort of calculate out what their particular coalition is going to think when you look at those demographics and how that plays into it and yes there are like people who are philosophically just always opposed to taxes and yes there are people in higher income who are philosophically just like very unfavorable in favor of taxes but by and large this

Corey 56:36

this is a rule that you can pretty much set your watch to a watch that would work if you're not steven carter past bedtime i

Corey 56:44

i we heard Yeah, that was the rumor. Yeah. Listen, big nights in the Blue's

Zain 56:49

Blue's Guy City. We're going to move it to conclusion, Carter. I feel like you're fading. We're going to move it to our over,

Zain 56:55

over, under, and our lightning round. Stephen Carter, yeah, here we go. Here we go. That's fine. Who cares about the listeners at this point?

Zain 57:01

Carter, overrated, underrated, calling your shot.

Carter 57:05

Oh, it's underrated. I love it. I love that strategy I always have.

Carter 57:10

Corey's seen me call my shot. I

Corey 57:12

I have. i have it's a very famous story no he calls it in retrospect

Zain 57:17

let's be clear it happened no

Corey 57:21

think the difference is though like that was a private conversation not a public conversation yeah but i was saying the same shit to everybody

Carter 57:28

everybody i ran into but

Corey 57:31

but you didn't get a megaphone and blasted on the streets of of the blue sky city ninth avenue and inglewood at that starbucks you just said it to here's the thing right what's the pen i'm talking about the way for we know code for most that's fine in 2010

Zain 57:45

that is the only thing that's code for most people this episode this

Zain 57:49

this has been center street dairy queen level uh don't go down the story it's fine don't even don't even fuck around with it uh hey carter i have a follow-up question to you penalty for for for miscalling your own shot minimal

Carter 58:05

it's a a it's a very risky strategy if you do not get what you call like you're you're

Carter 58:12

you're gonna be eating crow or um or

Carter 58:15

or you're going to be uh looking for a new job cory

Zain 58:19

cory overrated underrated i never got your take on it uh

Corey 58:22

uh i think it is overrated massive style points no question about it people remember babe ruth that well like where that's where it basically came from right but But for

Corey 58:33

for every one person who pulls it off, there are nine people who look like clowns. And so I'm just more of a fundamentals guy. Just get it up by five points. Don't go tell everybody about it. The guy who calls bank and airballs it. Corey,

Zain 58:46

Corey, give the liberals a grade. Give the liberals, Christopher Freeland, Justin Trudeau, Doug Wong, a grade on the budget.

Corey 58:55

You should have gone to dinner with Steven.

Carter 58:59

Yeah, Doug got screwed. yeah carter

Zain 59:03

what's the grade what's the grade you give him uh

Carter 59:06

uh christopher freeland i'm going to give her a uh a b minus for delivery i'm going to give justin trudeau um a d plus for being distracted and i'm going to give doug wong a failing grade uh as always gets

Corey 59:22

gets an a he's the no

Carter 59:23

no he's the architect and he was the one who's listening no

Corey 59:26

no wrong doug was yeah he's

Carter 59:27

he's the one doug's

Corey 59:27

doug's a glue blue guy doug's a locker room guy you need a doug there you

Carter 59:31

you need a doug but you need a doug who pulls his weight are

Zain 59:37

we getting doug fired we

Carter 59:40

we always did once we uh he's i don't want to i

Zain 59:43

i don't want to i don't want to make sympathy room on the podcast for someone just because they've lost their job carter okay i'm not i'm not doing that okay we would last

Corey 59:51

last time we would

Zain 59:51

would never do We wouldn't do that, would we? That's why you didn't show up with you. Not helpful. Not helpful.

Zain 1:00:01

Liberals, June, five points. Are they doing it?

Zain 1:00:06

Corey, prediction. Liberals, five points. June, are they doing it? It's just five points. The lead is massive. Anything could happen. Correlation could be causation. It

Zain 1:00:15

It is a lot. But

Corey 1:00:16

But are they doing it?

Corey 1:00:18

one poll, maybe two, out of the many, many pollsters. will have it and they'll declare victory. But if you look at the poll of polls, they will not do it. We're

Zain 1:00:26

We're going to leave it there. That is a wrap on episode 1298 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Velge. With me as always, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter, and we'll see you next time.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:50

Workin' for his monthly nut

SPEAKER_03 1:00:54

Workin' hard for that monthly nut

SPEAKER_03 1:01:00

Yeah, most of the time he's really close to burstin' On Instagram, he just keeps on thirstin'

SPEAKER_03 1:01:07

But all he wants is that monthly nut

SPEAKER_01 1:01:16

scene is set The time's today The time's today Papers

SPEAKER_01 1:01:20

Papers in hand are quite a display Oh, the figures dance, the numbers sway In Canada, it's Budget Day All eyes on me, will

SPEAKER_01 1:01:32

will taxes rise? With bated breath, we await the surprise For the ledger's

SPEAKER_01 1:01:40

no one can shy It's Budget Day, shall we laugh or cry?

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

Will they X the tax? Or fix housing? You can build your credit score by rent Oh, the figures dance The numbers sway in Canada It's

SPEAKER_01 1:02:01

It's budget day Check

SPEAKER_01 1:02:03

Check out my shoes Aren't they grand? How does that help? I don't understand Will you make my life more affordable? Oh my gosh! Gosh, aren't you adorable?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:25

Now, Tron endorses Nahead. Rocky wants some kids fed. Gil asks for 20k, right? Two waters saves the day. Kathleen wants a public option. Sarah has a housing plan. The leadership race is over. It's been always over since the Nenshien. The leadership race is over. We know we should stop it, but the others won't quit.

Transcript