Transcript
Zain
0:01
This is a strategist episode 1274. My name is Zain Velji. With me as always, Stephen Carter, Corey Hogan.
Carter
0:12
I'm back. We're back. I'm back, baby. Yeah.
Carter
0:15
Look at you. How was it? Um, I made a lot of mistakes.
Carter
0:18
Like, I made a lot of mistakes. I just, I
Carter
0:23
I start off, you know that I have the same travel agents as the Prime Minister, right? Like, so, yeah,
Carter
0:29
I call Ben. He's my guy. He's my guy. He also does the travel for the prime minister. And just to be clear,
Zain
0:34
clear, this is Ben and Flair, right?
Carter
0:37
Yeah. Well, I say, take me wherever the prime minister went. And because I am like stressed. And as you know, I have more vacation days than Heather. So I'm like, I'm just, I'm going to pull the Justin Trudeau thing. Where would a single man go?
Carter
0:52
And Ben's like, he goes to this he thing. He goes to this he. I'm like, perfect, perfect.
Carter
0:57
perfect. Take me to the he thing. That's where I'm going to go. Um, you know, work on myself, build myself as a, as a person. Yeah.
Corey
1:06
Yeah. Your, your he energy. Yeah, sure. Well,
Carter
1:09
I'll tell you something. I made a mistake.
Carter
1:11
That is not where I should have been. Um, but once you're there, you're there. and i was stuck in the uh the room because it was i was stuck in the room for a long time i tried going out of the room but uh i did not have a good experience it was not a good experience at all so it
Corey
1:27
it was black now that all tracks to what i would imagine yeah yeah
Carter
1:30
yeah so hedonism is what it's called it's in uh it's jamaica and i made a horrible mistake so
Zain
1:39
but don't bring it up for the prime bring your trauma back to the podcast carter okay i've got only it's good enough
Carter
1:43
enough for the prime minister right like the
Carter
1:46
the prime minister enjoyed it i'm there but
Carter
1:49
did not have are you trying
Zain
1:50
trying to start a new conspiracy theory the
Carter
1:54
prime minister i i used ben he's my guy he's the guy i go to he's the prime minister's uh travel agent this is what he told me uh okay this is what he told me uh
Corey
2:04
uh cory uh so the strategist podcast dis disavows uh stephen carter's commentary cory
Carter
2:09
cory uh say what did i say two
Zain
2:12
two minutes and 10 seconds of that bit by carter which, by the way, I thought was a nosedive, personally. Come on,
Carter
2:17
on, it's really good. People are going to write in.
Zain
2:20
They're not going to write
Carter
2:21
write in. People are going to ask who Ben is. People are going to ask who Ben is and how they can get his number. You know that's going to happen.
Zain
2:27
Yeah, they might do that.
Zain
2:28
speaking of interchangeable white male names, Dave. We have to tell Dave. What do we have to tell Dave, and how do people then subsequently tell Dave? Dave.
Corey
2:40
Well, as you are aware, and as Stephen is aware, we live in the province of Alberta, right?
Corey
2:47
of course. Wonderful province. Mountains, plains, other
Corey
2:50
other stuff we don't talk about as much. But listen, we got mountains and plains. And that's what we want you to focus on at this particular moment. Also have a podcast turned into a substack called Dave Berta. Nice guy, Dave Cornway. Dave Cornway, kind of considered a bit of an institutional memory of Alberta to politics you know tracks candidates gives us the history of all of these things runs
Corey
3:13
runs a contest every every christmas you know looks for the the biggest plays the best mlas other things that probably rhyme i don't really remember but one
Corey
3:23
one of the questions he asks is the best political play of
Corey
3:27
of the year and
Corey
3:29
and somehow in the shortlisting process somehow i don't know how personally
Zain
3:34
know how, in fact, just to be clear.
Corey
3:37
I believe that to be true in my core.
Corey
3:40
Somehow, one of the three finalists for Best Political Play of 2023 became the strategist winning Best Political Play of 2023.
Corey
3:51
I mean, it's an honor just to be nominated. Is
Corey
3:56
Zane doesn't have a lot of awards. Yeah. I mean, except for the ones they give you for existing. Yeah. Right?
Carter
4:02
Congratulations. they give those
Corey
4:04
those out in the northeast it's a millennial they really
Zain
4:06
really just have them out door to door they're like congratulations you made it uh
Corey
4:11
you you've done it now
Corey
4:12
now i i too live in the northeast but i reject them you know as a matter of principle yeah but of course you
Corey
4:18
you don't i understand but even in that context your walls are looking pretty empty so uh we we decided we put a little bit of effort behind winning best
Corey
4:26
best political play of 2023 that being us winning best Best Political Play of 2023.
Corey
4:32
So if you go to telldave.ca right now,
Corey
4:35
you can let, you know, the Dave know that nobody wants Zane to lose again. It is an opportunity to vote
Corey
4:43
for a bunch of other stuff, but maybe while you're there, you definitely also want to vote for the strategist winning Best Political Play of 2023. Now,
Carter
4:50
Now, that's... Yeah, we all good? That was a... You can also go...
Zain
4:54
go... Yeah, tell us where we can go. You
Carter
4:55
You can also go to www.callben.ca and
Corey
5:02
discount hey guys look i gotta i gotta tell you i
Corey
5:05
was doing our accounting for the last month oh just the last month yeah yeah
Corey
5:09
yeah we spent four hundred dollars on domains last month and
Zain
5:14
of course at callben.ca um you will be taken directly to the phone number uh in fact cory i if If you're on mobile, if I'm not mistaken, it
Zain
5:29
it will dial Ben.
Carter
5:30
Right for you. I
Zain
5:31
I don't know what to do with you two right now. I feel like that is what it will do. What
Corey
5:34
What are you talking about?
Zain
5:36
You know how to do it, and we know you know how to do it, and so it's going to be done. Thank you, Carter, once again for that. And, Corey, that was an unnecessarily long
Zain
5:44
of telldave.ca. Here's the thing, people, okay? We want to put daveberta.ca into a boot loop. So it was unnecessarily
Zain
5:54
long? No, I'm going to clean up your mess. I'm like the Shohei Otani slash Robert Herjavec of this podcast. Welcome to that reference, Carter.
Carter
6:02
Yeah, no, I knew that one. Thank you.
Zain
6:04
Yeah, I'm the fifth dragon in a group of three. Here's what we're going to do, okay? You go to taldave.ca. We want to get this guy's entire award system into a boot loop. If we win best political play of 2023, being best political play of 2023, I think he's going to shut it down. And
Zain
6:23
And what we need is less competition, okay? Institutional memory, this is not an era for institutional memory. We need that to die off, and we need you to help do that. So telldave.ca. Also, because I lost out on several awards as a child to my arch nemesis in the Muslim community. Yeah, and this makes up for it. Thank you.
Corey
6:42
Yeah, it was not head-danching.
Zain
6:43
It was not head-danching. Yeah, it was. It was absolutely hip. Carter, anything else to get off your chest before we move it on?
Carter
6:49
no but i am looking for a new doctor apropos
Carter
6:52
apropos of nothing okay
Zain
6:58
okay seven minutes seven minutes of the i'd say the only good part was me i'm just i'm just i'm just telling you right what i looked let's
Zain
7:06
let's move it on to our first segment stephen carter our first segment why the fuck do we still do this carter every now and again i bring you something it
Zain
7:14
it could be a strategy it could be a tactic it could be a practice practice in
Zain
7:19
And I ask you the simple question, why the fuck do we still do this? Sometimes you guys agree with me. You guys agreed with me on the human wall. No. Yeah, you guys agreed with me. Yeah.
Zain
7:28
Other times you disagree. One time. Yeah, that's true. We did. Other times you disagree. You say, why are you bringing this? Why are you bringing this filth? Why are you bringing this shit? Why are you bringing this filler to the show? Stephen Carter, I've got one for you today. Start us off with. Bonnie Crombie, the liberal leader. She's written written a piece in the Toronto Star, an op-ed. She gets to write whatever she wants about Peel Region, in this case, not talking about the province really at all. She's talking about municipal leaders know their residents best and should make decisions about taxes, roads, etc. It's a two-minute long read from her, Bonnie Crombie, comma, contributor in the Toronto Star. Stephen Carter, the question here is very simple. Politicians sending in op-eds, getting covered directly by newspapers occasionally behind paywalls like this one is um or i
Zain
8:16
i guess is for some people to be to be charitable uh it is for me at the moment carter is this a practice that should die is this a practice that's normal and we should keep does this require examining am i barking up a tree that doesn't require examining carter the question is simple why the fuck do we still do this allow politicians to have however many inches they want to write their message and this is not just a bonnie crombie practice this is a Bernie Sanders writing in The Guardian, John McCain writing in The Washington Post, Barack Obama writing in The New York Times. I wanted to talk about this for a few minutes. Give me your thoughts first, and then I'll go to Corey.
Carter
8:51
I'm advising someone right now that I'm advising to put together an op-ed and try and get it published in a local paper. That's a standard operating procedure because both parties want it to happen. Both parties, you know, the newspaper wants to have the readership. the readership. They want to be seen to be able to, to, to provide some sort of readership and the politician wants, um, more eyeballs. So they're going to say something modestly interesting. Uh, it has to be good. I mean, you know, the newspapers aren't just publishing, uh, opinions that, that don't have some sort of consequence, although one could seriously argue whether or not this Bonnie Crombie, uh, column reaches the level, but nonetheless, um, it's a symbiotic relationship. And as part of that relationship, both parties get something. So why wouldn't you continue to do it? I think that it's a great way of getting some free exposure and not having the media put their spin on to what you say, right? It is literally all your own words and no one else is competing with you. So as a politician, it's a great practice. I'm not so sure it's great for the publication. But for the politician, I think it's absolutely perfect. And that's why we keep doing it.
Zain
10:06
Corey, I see the strategic value from the political side. But
Zain
10:10
But you may want to actually talk about that. The main sort of area I want to drive to eventually is the strategic value from the media side, and why do they end up allowing this practice? But Corey, your thoughts on why the fuck do we still do op-eds published by politicians?
Corey
10:28
have been wondering this myself a lot lately obviously an op-ed is a pretty traditional tactic you often have people whether you are working on kind of consulting side or client side say oh we got to get an op-ed we got to get an op-ed out there and you
Corey
10:45
you know a lot of work goes into them people really define what an opinion is it's it's a piece of tentpole communication i've often talked about that having a value in its own right just because it it forces you to get things together but i've really been wondering this myself a lot lately especially when you own so many channels as a politician um you yeah as a politician you can go out and you can put something on social and you can share it and it can go further and you might have a website and if you get them on your website not only do you get the eyeballs but you potentially get them down the funnel i think what i've ultimately come to the conclusion of is um you it is not like reflexively a useful thing it does need to be thought of in the context of what you're trying to get out of it and you know carter's not wrong that you can get more eyeballs but i would expand on it and say you can get eyeballs you wouldn't normally get right because i suspect that the average barack obama actually gets more people reading a tweet than gets reading the new york Times but the benefit is you get both the aura of the outlet right and kind of this mark that oh look it's a prestigious like placement and this is a tentpole piece of communication that is you know the New York Times itself is running but you also it people who would never be on Twitter will see it and so I think when you're building an op-ed if it's part of a communication strategy you should really be thinking about the nature of the audience of that channel and just not reflexively thinking oh great i've got an op-ed and if you're thinking about that audience and you're not just reflexively saying it's a great time for me to get my thing out there through somebody else's channel where i won't get the benefit of taking it down the funnel you've got to use the strengths of that channel so it's not actually i generally think op-eds are best when they're almost like against type like it's in an outlet where you're not always going to be kind of carried or have a natural audience so people are forced to see your view the communication is the first step on that funnel, getting people to say like, oh, Bonnie Crombie, she's an interesting person. She's not quite what I expected. And avoid kind of the later in the funnel stuff where the next steps would be actions because then really, why didn't you just drive them to your own website, right? Like if this is to try to whip people up into donations, memberships, activity, post your own content on your own channels, whether it be social or otherwise. So just be strategic about it. I I think that it's
Corey
13:10
it's unfortunate how many people think an op-ed is just good because it's an op-ed and don't really think of it enough in terms of what it offers versus other channels and what it doesn't versus other channels. Because again, you don't own it, which means you don't get to push them further down the funnel. Carter, are
Zain
13:25
are you a fan of cross-posting in this case? Before I ask you about what strategic value and why the fuck does the media still allow this practice or go along with it, and you've given me a bit of an answer, are you a fan of cross-posting? Like to Corey's point, cover all bases, make this a news story within the bonniecrombie.ca or bonnie.ca, make it a news story around the Ontario Liberals sort of thing so you have a conversion ability, put it in the Toronto Star, put it in multiple places. Are you a fan of that or not so much in our modern sort of communications world?
Carter
13:58
well i'm a fan of of using the multiple mediums but i'm not necessarily like i think that each one could be used in in sequence um like there is something to be said for using the uh the op-ed is as a beginning of a conversation and then moving to um you know moving to your website moving to a landing page doing something different as you move along through the communication structure but you know you don't necessarily want to launch your website with your the exact same op-ed right you it has to fit the medium if you will so when it's your own website you're going to post it differently you're going to engage with the audience differently if you're doing it on the socials the socials you know some of the socials might just be like a twitter might be linking to to your op-ed. Um, whereas an Instagram might be several slides, a key of key quotes from the op-ed, you know, each one is going to be a little bit different depending on what you're actually trying to communicate. So I don't think that it's a case of, uh, cross posting where everything just kind of universally winds up in the same, you know, in different spots at the same time, but it's more a, um, you know, this
Carter
15:10
this is what we're posting here. This is what we're posting over And it all kind of builds together to create a comprehensive understanding of the issue.
Zain
15:18
Carter, this opinion piece that's in the Toronto Star is referencing, the headline is not just let's get distracted and continue with the disillusion of Peel region. It's actually Bonnie Crombie going, let's not get distracted and has that title. It has her name three or four times within like the first couple of sentences, so to speak. speak. So that name recognition is certainly there. This is, you know, or her
Zain
15:42
name recognition, so to speak. When I look at this, and if I were on the other side of this, sitting on the Doug Ford team or even assessing this, being like, wow, that's a lot of, to Corey's point, halo effect that Tourstar gives her, and a lot of like Bonnie Crombie, someone who's, you know, some people know, but not everybody knows, that's getting a lot of splash for free. So the question I have, Carter, starter, is
Zain
16:06
is should the media reconsider this practice? Why the fuck do they still do this? Should they be reconsidering this practice? Corey, I'm going to come to you with that same question in a second.
Carter
16:17
I mean, the simple answer is yes, they should. But at a time when they even have fewer people to write the words, to put the sentences together, and to create the content, I'm not sure that this
Carter
16:30
this isn't one of the more cost-effective ways of getting a person's viewpoint out there. You know, you just simply, all you're doing is giving them lines. And in a lot of cases, you're just giving them space that, you
Carter
16:43
you know, on a website or, you know, a little bit of, you know, it's
Carter
16:47
it's going to be covered anyways. So this is an easy way to create content that
Carter
16:55
otherwise might cost you real money. So I think that it's probably fine. But, you
Carter
17:02
you know, for God's sick i mean even like the cbc has paid cory for his opinions you know like someone as low down as that oh goodness
Carter
17:10
i guess that they must see a return on investment of something well
Zain
17:14
cory here's here's the struggle i have and this kind of goes back to one of the conversations that you and i were having around owned and paid and earned media carter it was a it was a highbrow conversation that i'm sure you couldn't have kept up on if you were part of it so i'm glad you were i
Carter
17:27
was otherwise occupied yeah
Zain
17:29
yeah and and and if you want to get occupied like carter it's that call PaulBen.ca,
Zain
17:33
.ca, which is going to be a beautiful-looking website. I mean, you are going to be blown away
Zain
17:39
with what's going to be at the door. I was
Carter
17:42
was also blown away.
Zain
17:47
let it hang, Carter. Fuck.
Zain
17:50
Yeah. This is unmediated
Zain
17:55
content published on something
Zain
17:58
something that we expect, some sort of mediation.
Zain
18:01
So the question really comes to you. I know you've been thinking about this for a while. I assume you've been thinking about it from the politician side and their strategic value. Talk to me about the strategic value and the practice and whether it should continue for media outlets.
Corey
18:16
Yeah, I think that if you're a media outlet, there's a lot of reasons to really like the op-ed. Previously, it was a great way to sort of round out and defend yourself against opinions of your paper that it was too one-sided, right? So you would have other opinions opposite the editorial page that could carry other points of view, and that was great for you. It is also free
Corey
18:38
free content. It is content that you pay nothing for a lot of the time. And so, especially in this modern era where space costs nothing, you are trading space, which costs you nothing, in exchange for content, which would normally cost you something. And it's this aggregating effect, this network effect that allows both parties to benefit and neither really to be worse off because of this exchange. So yeah,
Corey
19:03
yeah, I think it makes sense. Actually, I think it makes more sense for the media outlet than the politician. because what the politician is giving up is kind of control over everything around the piece of content and people want the content yeah
Corey
19:18
yeah maybe they're more likely to click on it because it says new york times instead of barackobama.com just using that right
Corey
19:26
and certainly if you go to newyorktimes.com you'll be able to find it next to other content that you would just be be browsing around so that that's a benefit to you but you lose so many other things as soon as you do that right it it you lose the you lose the kind of connective funnel where it's like you get to the bottom of the article i really like that i'll click here and i'll read something else he's written i'll click the donate button i'll click the join or i'll click you lose that and so um i do think sometimes politicians egos get in their way and they think that they want the op-ed and the paper for content that actually they would have been better served by hosting i'm not
Zain
20:02
not seeing the outrage i'm not seeing the the prediction that the practice will die out i'm not seeing in fact is it fair to say that both of you think this practice continues and if not increases going forward could i put you in that in that spot by almost driving you to that conclusion is that fair
Zain
20:20
carter cory either of you yeah
Carter
20:21
yeah i think it's yeah
Corey
20:25
sure i i can't see how in a world where there's fewer and fewer reporters and fewer and fewer columnists that newspapers aren't going going to make use of this even more sometimes
Zain
20:34
sometimes when i start a segment there's a there there and other times uh both steven and cory disappoint this was the latter we're gonna move it on to our next segment that was actually helpful i think for a lot of people our next segment i was i was expecting some rage saying yeah why does this happen why are they letting people campaign on their so such
Zain
20:52
such precious publications carter but i got none of that from either of you steven carter we're gonna move on to our next segment our next segment forward to go backward word, I want to talk about COP, Stephen Carter. A historic agreement has been reached at COP, but a statement that seems to be stuck in time was sent by the government of Alberta. That might be an evergreen statement that I'm making, in some
Zain
21:18
some ways. Corey, I'm going to put the onus on you, if that is okay. Give us a bit of the background here, and then let's get into to what exactly happened and what we actually may speculate happened within the confines of this joint statement by Danielle Smith and the Minister of Environment, Rebecca Schultz, here in Alberta.
Corey
21:39
Sure. What can I tell you about COP28? I think that expectations were not necessarily high going into COP28 that there would be major activity coming out of it, simply because of how how it was being hosted. Where it was being hosted, exactly. PetroState and... Yeah.
Corey
21:54
Exactly. Major presence by oil and gas companies, lots of commentary about how it was more oil and gas companies showing up than have ever done in the past. And, you
Corey
22:05
you know, just generally where the world is right now and inflation being what it is and affordability being what it is and some of these back pressures occurring in various nations that would maybe temper enthusiasm for additional environmental action. And that's actually not what happened. While there wasn't the strongest statement possible, there were some ideas floated along the way about the phasing out of fossil fuels with stronger language. A day before the end of COP28, it looked like no statement. And then in the last day, they pulled together a consensus that effectively said the world is going to try to get off fossil fuels. now there were some provisos about you know various transition fuels and things of that nature but for the first time ever for the first time ever the
Corey
22:51
the world agreed hundreds of nations agreed we're gonna try to stop using fossil fuels and in a funny way it's like that
Corey
22:59
that had to be the subtext of the other 27 cops right like this is basically what's always been there in the background but because of economic pressures because of political pressures this is the first some that's been said out loud. And that's actually a pretty meaningful statement. Because
Corey
23:16
there have been an awful lot of politicians, and we've talked about this, who have really been quite content to have their cake and eat it too, and suggest that miracle solutions were on the horizon that would allow us to continue to have the exact same lifestyle as before, but technology would save us. And that's no longer the case. Now, we live in a world where
Corey
23:35
where we are very clearly really saying as an international community, we are trying to get off fossil fuels.
Zain
23:41
And it was done in a major way with several other agreements. Carter, you might be asking, Zane, why was this segment not titled Good Cop, Bad Cop? It's because I'm off my game. Okay, Carter? Good Cop, Bad Cop would be an excellent title. It should probably be the episode title. But Carter, sometimes I just miss, right? Just like you guys in that last segment.
Carter
24:01
Carter, you know, I'm
Zain
24:02
I'm just going to keep going on that. Carter, here's
Carter
24:03
here's the thing. I appreciate that. Yeah,
Zain
24:04
no problem at all. No problem at all. Corey's right. This was held in Dubai. Many were likening this to a global petroleum show. They thought this was actually going to take things in the wrong direction. There are probably a few folks wondering, have there been 27 comps before? The answer is yes. Right? There have been. This is a conversation that keeps going, hosted by different countries. You know, 28 years of these climate negotiations. At the end of the day, Carter, this is a negotiation forum. As much as it is a trade show and innovation and future progress and lobbying on the floor, this is a international negotiation. And at that international negotiation, Carter, Canada had some news. I suppose, Stephen Gilboa, our environment minister, said that he presented
Zain
24:50
presented this new framework on oil and gas emissions. He talked about the new system that we were ultimately going to adopt here in Canada. And Alberta had a response, Carter, didn't they?
Carter
25:06
Yeah, I mean, Alberta had the classic Alberta response where
Carter
25:10
where we go, na-na-na-na-na, not going to do it. you can't make us and we cover up our eyes and pretend that the climate emergency is in some fashion not going to impact us. The statement from Danielle Smith and Rebecca Schultz that you alluded to, you know, it spoke of illegal statements or illegal climate promises. You know, I think in fact, Zane, as you were setting up this segment, you probably broke the law in several occasions, and I know that Corey did, just by simply mentioning the fact that there could be climate
Carter
25:46
climate consequences and the people have been negotiating this for a long time. One thing I wanted to say just kind of really quickly is we
Carter
25:54
we talk about these conferences as though they themselves are the end output. These climate
Carter
26:00
climate conversations are going around year-round with countries. with countries i mean we've got people whose job it is to do these discussions year round to make sure that you
Carter
26:10
you know our countries when we get to these things aren't broadsided aren't taken advantage of aren't surprised uh the stuff that came out of this particular cop um i think it was surprising because of the location but it's not surprising when you look at the general direction that the world is traveling um you know the big population countries of india and uh and china have been making significant changes in their power generation
Carter
26:36
generation grids, have been doing the work that
Carter
26:39
that we're trying to do in Canada. Everybody's taking the action except the good province of Alberta. We're the only ones with a renewables freeze for this time. I am not surprised to see a statement that kind of would not acknowledge what everybody else is seeing around the world, given that we've been not acknowledging it here in the province for quite some time. And I
Carter
27:06
I was personally very disappointed, but not in the least surprised by our lack of vision and lack of commitment to a worldwide enterprise that ultimately is striving to save humanity. But
Zain
27:18
But Corey, this was, to Carter's point, this was more than that, right? Like, quote, this extreme position, they're talking about Stephen Gilbo and other radical activists continue to push an approach that would consign the world energy poverty and economic stagnation by focusing only on ending all fossil fuel use. This extreme position was defeated at COP28 by a growing alliance of thoughtful world leaders.
Zain
27:43
They continue to call Stephen Gilboa extreme and embarrassment, but Corey, right there and then,
Zain
27:48
in that particular line I have read you, it
Zain
27:51
it seems like this was written in some fucking time machine.
Corey
27:56
well so that was my first reaction when i saw this statement like and and let's be clear there were negotiations around language i think it was around the notion of using the phrase phase out versus transition away from i think the average person on the street would say that kind of sounds like the same thing but it seems to be what uh daniel smith is hinging her rhetoric on here because the idea that cop somehow did anything that was contrary to what steven gilboa want is pretty tenuous right uh yeah maybe the exact phrasing he wanted didn't get in there uh but my god you read this thing and you look at the headlines coming out of top cop 28 and it's very difficult to sort of reconcile these as as occurring within the same universe right like Like, it does feel like we
Corey
28:43
we have entirely broken from reality with commentary like this. And there is a – I mean, there's a lot you could say. You could say, my goodness, is it appropriate that a provincial government would write this and use this kind of very over-the-top language about a federal minister? I actually strain to think of a time that
Corey
29:03
that words like this with this kind of fire behind them have been used, right? Right.
Zain
29:12
it's buried in this one thing where that's like like this guy's a piece of shit thankfully other people who are not pieces of shit you know were able to tell this guy to fuck off and i'm we're glad he got fucked so hard at cop by the way oh yeah sorry oh shit yeah the one thing that he was pushing for it actually did happen and like you know we just like glossed that over it like loses all of its strength in that regard. But my question to the two of you, which is why I wanted to bring this up, it's, you know, in some ways, this was expected, maybe not the fiery language against Stephen Gilboa, written in a statement under the headline government news, and as a release that hits 1000s of inboxes. Sure, maybe not that. But Carter, does it matter? Like, even if this was written on the day before, does it matter? And is it good strategy to say, who gives a shit? Let's just stick with this particular narrative? Or is this going to cost the Alberta government here in a way beyond like the political craft that we're talking about here of ignoring the reality of what happened on the ground at COP, knowing that most people have no idea what COP is, and have no idea what Canada committed to with the rest of the world.
Carter
30:22
Yeah, I mean, don't even worry about whether or not it costs the government of Alberta, it's going to cost Albertans. You know, it's going to cost Canadians, because as we get cast as this uh market that isn't this keeping its head in the sand and not approaching uh
Carter
30:40
uh the climate emergency with the with the same urgency that the rest of the the
Carter
30:44
the world is approaching it uh we're going to be left behind you know ezra levant had this ethical oil argument that they won quite a lot of converts in the uh in
Carter
30:55
in the uh the world of oil and gas here in alberta well i'll you something uh this is the new ethical oil this
Carter
31:02
this is the new ethical oil if we're not keeping up if we're not saying that we're going to be a part of this uh you know global catastrophe and trying to address it we are going to be left behind because this this is now it
Carter
31:18
it it's it's got far more attention on it than the ethical uh side ever did the only person ever talking about ethical oil was ezra levant everybody
Carter
31:27
everybody is talking about um climate change and trying to keep the world under two degrees um in in the future and oh
Carter
31:37
oh boy oh boy i mean we sound like fucking neanderthals no one's going to be investing here we're going to just be we're not seeing any investment and arguably even the only reason we're even talking about the alberta pension plan is so that we can drive some of our own pension into catastrophic potentially catastrophic investments and in our oil and gas community trying to artificially well prop up an industry that's not going to see investment because there's not going to be return i mean this this is
Carter
32:08
this is the worst possible government at the worst possible so cory
Zain
32:11
cory i i need to i need to talk about the politics here then so if carter sets the stage there around what this could cost just from a policy perspective, investment, confidence, all those sort of things. Not to say that's conventional wisdom, Carter, but we've heard that as like table stakes on this conversation. Corey, you know, I think we were on a podcast, whether it was this one or somewhere else. And I said, at one point, you know, Alberta has got to be careful, because if they keep going so hard at the feds, there is an expiry date on that. And I think one of you cringed at me being like, what the fuck is this guy talking about? I want to reintroduce that notion again, Corey. Corey. Tell me about the conditions now, rather than when, but tell me about the conditions on when beating up on the feds starts having either negative or diminishing returns for the government of Alberta. Because it seems right now from a pure political basis, it's their only strategy across the board. And they've got some wind behind their back with some Supreme Court decision, so to speak. But Corey, give me the conditions where it starts firing back. Because right now, we've seen another escalation, if you want to add it to the pile of language against a minister in a government release, which we may have not, and we may have seen it before. But let's just say we haven't seen it before. I think that's a market escalation. We've seen them now, you know, adopt this strategy across the board for everything. Give me the conditions when this is diminishing returns or negative impact. I want to ultimately give the UCP a pathway for them to understand where it starts maybe not making as much sense as it maybe does today on the politics, Corey.
Corey
33:48
Well, look, it'll take a while to get there because one of two things can happen in the next bit. Either the provincial government will be successful in the courts and warding off federal action, in which case uh you know they get to declare victory or they'll be unsuccessful in which case they get to declare an enemy and so in the short term it's hard to imagine that this is going to change fundamentally but over years i think we have to appreciate that especially if the government is successful and it doesn't have the federal government to blame and can't say like oh these policies have shackled us because either pierre poliev becomes prime minister and those policies don't exist or because um it just becomes so evident that the alberta way is just driving us into the ground in some way shape or form you know it's it's going to take time a lot of time and it's going to have to take a pretty fundamental rethinking of where we are and it's probably going to take some relative fall in standing but understand that even that doesn't guarantee we all of a sudden realize collectively that there was a problem here because there will likely be enough things out there that the government can point to to say this only happened because of the the treachery of the federal government i'm using the word of continued treachery against our province is how they described us
Corey
35:05
us agreeing to climate action at cop 28 you know also wow
Carter
35:10
i mean just really over the top embarrassment yeah
Corey
35:13
yeah well it's the idea that it's treachery against our province to have a cap on emissions is um as much in my opinion and it also sort of you
Corey
35:26
you know it's a bit the government telling on themselves because there's been this parallel narrative that ccs carbon capture and sequestration would save us and so you know now guess not right because they've got a problem with the cap so um i
Corey
35:41
i don't know zane i still continue to think that it's not likely to turn on them in the short term. But I will acknowledge, and I think that it's important for the rest of the country to remember as well,
Corey
35:52
the UCP didn't exactly win this election by a lot. There were more votes for the NDP in Calgary than the UCP, more votes for the NDP than the UCP in Edmonton. That was with an amazingly strong economy in Alberta. If you look at the fundamentals, the UCP should have run away with this. Yes, you could argue that that Danielle Smith presented a historical opportunity. But let's just say Economy and Smith cancel each other out. It doesn't actually take an awful lot to move from the current position for the UCP to lose government. So, yeah, you know, maybe this turns against at some point. I think we're a bit of a ways from that, unfortunately, because
Corey
36:29
because there's just so many things they can point to and so many excuses. Carter,
Zain
36:32
Carter, Corey brings up something interesting. I want to ask you a slightly different question. A former chief of staff to an Alberta premier. Carter, you sit here and you were almost tell me if this is a fair statement. Danielle Smith needs Justin Trudeau. If
Zain
36:45
If her current political strategy remains the same, she needs Justin Trudeau. Right.
Zain
36:48
Right. Is that fair to say?
Carter
36:51
well yeah i mean she the conventional wisdom would be that she needs an enemy that she can point to that causes all the problems i mean uh this isn't a new phenomenon you point to the feds and say they're the ones causing all your problems and they're the ones that are hurting you and albertans have traditionally fallen for it i mean we blame the 2014 uh downturn
Carter
37:12
downturn in in oil and gas prices and the downturn in the economy we we blamed the ndp
Carter
37:17
ndp that was elected in in 2015 right so we have a history of ignoring facts that are inconvenient for us i mean we could even have a longer conversation about the national the dreaded national energy program and whether or not it actually impacted us the way uh
Carter
37:36
narratively have assumed that it did so
Carter
37:40
know that when when you when you
Carter
37:43
you don't want to look in the mirror as as the as the wonderful jim prentice told us when you don't want to look in the mirror and see that you may have a hand in your own demise uh you are willing to cast the
Carter
37:54
the the role of the evil one on just about to any just about anyone so you know i i was struggling with the idea zane that in
Carter
38:04
in the premise of your question is kind of like what when When will this turn on them? And I'm not sure in the history that I'm familiar of that this these types of things have ever turned on a government because pointing at the other guy tends to, you know, the same way that when Corey and I get in shit, I blame him and he blames me. Oh, no, no, I'm happy to accept
Carter
38:28
accept that, Carter. I
Zain
38:28
I wanted to explore it again to see, like, is this have you have you guys seen anything different in the last little bit? But my new line of questioning is really about both
Zain
38:39
both of them, or
Zain
38:41
or at least in this case, Daniel Smith needing Justin Trudeau. And Corey, my question for you is very simple.
Zain
38:46
Like, it's how do you, if anything, from a political strategy perspective, preserve Justin Trudeau? And right now, Carter, the question for you, Livewire, is, you know, an election is any time in a minority. Yes, we've got this supply and confidence agreement. So we're probably looking at 2025. 25. When do you start planning for a post-Trudeau environment? Do you need to start fanning out and creating additional enemies right now so that you can hedge your bets a bit? Because their political strategy seems largely singular. So, Corey, I'm going to throw a few of those things out there, get you to react to them, and let me take it to Carter after that.
Corey
39:24
No. I mean, so I actually do want to do the thought exercise of where would you point to to next if you didn't have these people to point to, but let's be really crystal clear here. It's 2023, and the UCP is still blaming Rachel Notley for what's happening in the province of Alberta because of the decisions that they attribute to the NDP, including, by the way, decisions the NDP were actively against, such as eliminating the capacity market plans, which the UCP have now decided to take up again here. You're assuming there's a consistency and a logic to politics that that bluntly is not required four years after pierre hey zane four years of pierre poliev they'll still be blaming justin trudeau we're still fucking blaming pierre in this province and
Corey
40:09
and that was 40 years ago like they're you know they're going to continue to have the same specters they've always had because we're trained to fear those specters and they will always be there that is that is the tragic reality of our existence
Zain
40:22
existence okay so on this then carter i i i suspected one One of you would talk about that you don't just need the person, you need the ghost of that person to exist even in the span of 100 years. And you can recall it, National Energy Program, anyone, right? So I get that point, Corey. But Carter, like, isn't it more effective? Doesn't it have, doesn't to actually have the real person giving you new shit every single day that you can jump on, like an emissions cap for your oil and gas sector, or, you know, fucking you with their pension plan or whatever is going to be next that the federal government screws you over with like in some way as as a as a competent political office are you planning for your next enemy or are you planning for life after justin trudeau right now like in this moment in time is that is it would a competent political office be trying to figure out optionality against enemy right now carter that's the heart of my question as someone who's worked in that job
Carter
41:19
so you you've got a child right the the child's approximately what like one or so something i don't pay attention but let's say one right
Zain
41:27
right say that too you and
Zain
41:28
and i both don't pay yeah
Zain
41:29
so let's go with about i mean
Carter
41:31
mean some you know we'll text someone later and get it get it clarified um do you read new books to your son every day or does does he have a preference for a specific book uh
Zain
41:44
baby's feelings uh and he loves the page excited yeah
Carter
41:48
he get any yeah and he points to the same page all the time and he goes yes yes yes yes and he gets all excited right and he wants the same book read to him every single night well that in a nutshell is describing the electorate um the electorate have the emotional breadth of a one-year-old of a baby really and they respond to the exact same stimuli that a baby has so when we start telling them the repeat of the story and the enemy you know the bad guys always just introduced my dad used to tell his stories and we were we were going in and we you know the three boys there's three of us and we'd go into the into the pub and we'd beat up the biker gang and it always had the same plot lot points and it always had the same outcome and we loved it i mean we were young and and my my youngest brother who's now uh in his 50s uh my youngest brother still has my dad telling those stories so you know it's the same it's the same shit like we respond to these things uh and you'll see it you mean i read um the the lee child books right because jack reacher's my guy and i they're fucking formula but i love it and and some people read romances and some people read well cory doesn't read at all but somehow has a master's degree but this is this
Carter
43:07
this is how this is how the human race rolls so you know you don't need a new enemy you got your enemy rachel notley from 2015 is our enemy right um shit i could run a campaign today against ralph klein's cuts if I wanted to, right? All you need is the enemy that people understand the story and the common narrative. That's all you need.
Corey
43:32
Yeah, you know, it's even beyond that, like, repetition is such a foundational part of oratory rhetoric and politics. And just going back to the same beats, I'm sure effectively, even the idea of who Pierre Trudeau was, who Justin Trudeau is, are just riffs on Cicero's enemies back in
Corey
43:50
day, right? Like, we just keep doing the same bloody thing here and um i i mean i love the the the uh the idea of like the children's book because it's just very true and and it's not just children's books to steven's point you go to a thanksgiving dinner christmas dinner many of our listeners will be going to christmas dinner in the next couple of weeks here you're
Corey
44:11
you're gonna hear the same fucking stories that you've heard every year for the past they're gonna be just as happy telling them the details will change
Carter
44:18
change a little bit oh yeah they'll
Corey
44:20
they'll be just as happy telling them you'll be just as happy listening to them because that's how we're wired and so yes on the margins you're going to see some changes yes kind of a more immediate threat the urgency of it obviously has more kind of appeal and because Alberta has now become a place where the margins matter you know our elections have become competitive I'm not saying that it wouldn't have an effect not to have Pierre Trudeau there I'm just saying they don't need to change the game plan because pierre trudeau is not there you know
Corey
44:51
still going to be a fairly i think you mean
Corey
44:53
but i don't think that but
Zain
44:54
but i know every
Corey
44:55
every time in this particular
Carter
44:57
i think you made the point i
Corey
44:58
i think you made the point i
Corey
45:00
think you made the point exactly yeah
Zain
45:02
yeah uh nicely done carter okay we're gonna move it on carter to our final segment or over under in our lightning round there's a few things i want to discuss here steven carter so we're going to take a bit of time okay the lightning is going to be whatever slow
Zain
45:13
lightning yeah okay i'm
Carter
45:15
do we do do we do this for me that
Zain
45:17
that was my first bullet point yes is that to acknowledge okay that despite you used callben.ca to to find yourself uh in in some beautiful locale uh we still do this uh for you steven carter carter the
Zain
45:32
the conservative lead pierre polliev it's shrinking it was it was non-existent it grew and then it grew larger and now it's smaller okay that's me explaining current federal polling for you uh
Zain
45:45
and without the numbers i
Carter
45:46
i thought you're describing my vacation okay sorry i got distracted yeah no
Zain
45:51
no you're you're welcome carter um hey listen yeah
Zain
45:54
are you is is this overrated or is this underrated the current dip that the conservatives are are are feeling uh in your mind lay it on me oh
Carter
46:04
oh overrated i think that the The trend line, I mean, oh, wow, we're close again. We're within, what,
Carter
46:11
eight now? Like, congratulations. You know, if you're celebrating that, I think you've just totally missed the boat on what the actual problem is, which, again, wouldn't surprise me. But the liberals
Carter
46:25
liberals are in real trouble. They've been in real trouble for quite some time. And you can't bank on your opposition just falling apart at exactly the right time time when they've kind of owned you through the whole the whole electoral process. So my view is that it's completely overrated. And if anybody in the PMO is saying, oh, look,
Carter
46:48
looks like we dodged the bullet. I don't think you have. I think it's still coming for you. Corey,
Zain
46:54
Corey, it was it was like 19 ish points. It's depending on the poll, 10 to 16 points now. So there has been a bit of a dip for the liberals, for the conservatives, liberals gaining off of that, whether you call that voters coming back home, so to speak. Corey, overrated or underrated this this new sort of movement? I put that in air quotes that we're seeing in our federal polling.
Corey
47:22
Well, I certainly don't think the terrain has has fundamentally changed here, right? It's been unbroken good times for the conservatives in terms of polling for like six months, And the liberals have now ticked up over two weeks after what I think have been a particularly rough couple of weeks for the conservatives. And if it's underrated, it's probably not underrated in the way that you might have been asking the question, because I don't fundamentally think it changes my understanding of the liberals. I
Corey
47:48
I don't think it fundamentally changes my understanding of the conservatives. It might change the conservatives' understanding of the conservatives. And it might have been a bit of a cautionary tale for them, a gift to Pierre Poliev to say, okay,
Corey
48:00
okay, so we know what works and we know what doesn't work now. And we know that this Poliev mania will not continue if we act like shitheads. And it might actually force them to moderate bad behavior at
Corey
48:12
a time where they have still a lot of runway to figure out what their game plan is going to be for an election. and um and look i just don't believe for a minute that ultimately this is particularly material but if the conservatives are seeing the same thing if they are seeing that some of their activities for the past couple of weeks turned some people off great
Corey
48:30
great opportunity to reassess what you're doing and uh and avoid doing it open
Corey
48:35
open question whether they can open question whether they have the discipline or if pierre poliev is just too in his nature to be a bit of a jerk but But, you know, sometimes too much success is bad for somebody. And I believe the conservatives started believing their own press a little too much. This might shake them a little bit, get them back down. Hey,
Zain
48:55
Hey, Corey Carter, do you feel like, using Corey's model here, which I like, do you feel like this could tell the
Zain
49:03
liberals or Justin Trudeau anything about himself to his party or to the liberals, so to speak? week uh
Zain
49:10
uh he looks at it he's like 10 points after all the shit and the inaction and the ndp being so high fuck
Zain
49:16
fuck i can take that in a campaign guys like do you think this says anything about justin trudeau as it relates to his viability electability sticking around talk to me about that a bit when he sees it so close to single digits again which is a big leap by the way in canadian context but but like, Corey, give me a shot.
Zain
49:37
I know, I know. I'm so close to single
Zain
49:39
digits. But it was, but I'm, like in some cases, you know, there is some hope here and hope in the window where people, no, Carter, Carter, Carter, let me finish, let me finish the statement. Hope in the window where Trudeau might be making a decision on his future. That is what I'm trying to suggest. Corey.
Corey
49:58
Yeah, actually, that's where I wanted to go, right? Unless this turns out to be a blip, um where literally the next poll for all of these pollsters shows everybody has jumped back down to you know the the the basement in which justin trudeau was dwelling before in popularity uh like his party at least because one of the interesting things about these polls is they don't actually show that justin trudeau is getting more popular it's more like dragging polyev down because of his actions um
Corey
50:25
this is coming at a time where it probably makes It makes it less likely that Justin Trudeau will take that wall in the snow. And if he starts saying, you know what, we were in the basement, we're now walking up the stairs towards the main floor, he's
Corey
50:39
he's more likely to stick around. And of course, we've gotten other signals he's likely to stick around, such as hiring the executive director of communications. But we always said it wouldn't be 100% his decision when he's forced to go. This might have bought him a couple of months. And the thing about buying a couple of months at this particular time in the election cycle is you might only need a couple of months, because then it becomes almost too late. Biden scenario where like, even if they
Zain
51:03
they want to replace him right now, they don't know, they don't have the functionary to figure out how to do it, Carter. To that, yeah.
Corey
51:09
So there's a, look, I just want to say the doomsday scenario for the liberals might actually be just enough hope that they don't make the real corrective action that they need. And then all of a sudden, it's July of, yeah, like July 2024. They're back to where the polls were two weeks ago with like a 18 point lead for the conservatives. And they're out of time. Yeah. You know, like that might be actually the doomsday scenario. Carter,
Zain
51:32
Carter, a momentary humbling
Carter
51:33
humbling for the conservatives. That's the problem with the hubris.
Zain
51:36
Isn't a terrible thing either, right? Like from their perspective, like, you know, not having this 18, 19 point lead and going down to a modest 10 to 12, that's not terrible for them either in the sense of like lowering expectations, retooling, like, you know, getting back up to that number strategically rather than by chance two years before an election.
Carter
51:58
this is i mean this is actually great for them if they use this properly they will discover what their weaknesses were they will become stronger um this
Carter
52:08
this is great for the for the the conservatives there's no risk of them i mean shit they've still got a double digit lead guys like this is not like this
Carter
52:19
this is a massive victory for them even at this low stage And if Justin Trudeau is looking at this and saying, I've still got it, I mean, Jesus Christ, I will go to hedonism with him. Like, let's go, because, man,
Carter
52:33
man, that's just blind. I
Carter
52:35
understand. I will show him that he does not have it when standing next to the likes of Stephen Carter. Oh,
Zain
52:41
Oh, my God. I don't like that threat. We don't do threats on this show. I'm just saying. But what we do do is we call people, and we call Ben. We just did.
Zain
52:48
Corey, but just to be clear, we also tell Dave. We tell Dave at telldave.ca. Corey, Ontario consumers, they'll soon be able to buy beer, wine, and coolers at convenience and big box stores in addition to grocery stores. This was an announcement that Doug Ford made today. I don't really care about this policy because Doug Ford is obsessed with all things alcohol policy. It seems like it's his populist, his liquid populism that he goes to, so to speak. What I am interested in, Corey, is that this promise that allows 8,500 new stores across the province to sell alcohol doesn't take effect until 2026, but he announces it today, more than two years away from it. From a pure politics perspective, I'm kind of curious to get both of your takes on this. Are you in or are you out announcing something that's got such a long runway in order to happen? And the reason, to be clear, is that he'd have to break some contracts if he were to do it any sooner, and then that would cost him millions of dollars. They're not going to do that. But Corey, are you in or out on the strategy of announcing a promise so far in advance to its execution date?
Corey
54:00
really would depend on the promise but i'm i'm basically in in this situation and here's a reality that we often forget about as political communicators logistics matter and if you want to make a change like this like you say 2026 like it's a lifetime away it's two years
Corey
54:16
for the type of change they're talking about for the for you know the consequences for the fact that all of these businesses they're going to need to retool coolers they're going to need to think about how they're going to manage all of these things. They're going to need to understand what the regulations are. Those regulations will take time to create and to refine. There'll have to be consultations with all of the potential convenience stores, big box stores, all of those. I can't underline enough how much time that takes. It takes literal years to figure that kind of stuff out because you want to do it right. The consequences of doing it wrong are high. And logistics. Logistics rule everything at the end of the day, and this is a great example of it. But there was no opportunity to say, I'm going to hold this until 2025 and announce it then, because you wouldn't be able to figure out the things you need to figure out in that time. Sometimes you just need this kind of runway if this is what your ambition is, especially if you are essentially deconstructing a big government monopoly. And yeah, I mean, it's not quite the same with the beer store and all of that, but the consequences, the ramifications, they're big. Big things take big time. Government needs runway. way. So I'm in because how else would he possibly do it in a way that wasn't utter chaos for the province of Ontario?
Zain
55:27
You know what, Carter? Corey might be onto something. It seems like, at least in certain cases, he's already getting credit for fulfilling this promise. Let me read you this excerpt from CTV. Doug Ford announced Thursday that 8,500 new stores will be allowed to sell alcohol by 2026, fulfilling a longtime campaign promise first made by the PCs in 2018. I mean, in many ways, nothing has happened. He just made an announcement at a convenience store
Zain
55:47
today, but they have ultimately said he's fulfilling a longtime campaign promise. So from your perspective, not to kind of lead you to the same answer as Corey, because I'm curious to get your take, two
Zain
55:57
two-year runway seems long, a lot could happen. Are you in or are you out announcing so far in advance?
Carter
56:04
Totally out. I mean, spoken like a true bureaucrat, Corey. I mean, it takes us all this time to do it. Politics isn't about logistics. Politics is about how people view you. Sure, bureaucracy is about logistics, but bureaucracy can be forced into bigger changes. This isn't something that they haven't seen coming since 2018 when the promise was first made. If the bureaucracy hasn't made steps towards actually achieving it, get yourself a new bureaucracy. There's probably some DMs you can grab out of Alberta that are looking to escape while the escaping is good. um so you know like i appreciate that it will take time but if i was running you know the new liberal leader bonnie crombie's world i'd have her say you know uh this is ridiculous if i was you know this the ford government talks about moving at the speed of business or moving you know helping ontarians get their uh work
Carter
57:02
at a faster pace well the ontario liberal party would would make sure that this is happening in you know by 2024 um we could make this there is no under no circumstance would this not be implemented by within a one-year period if the ontario liberals were in charge and you know what it costs them nothing because they're not in charge and they can still make a good contrast with a bloated government that moves too slowly and you know why they can't break all those contracts because they're already paying for all the fucking green the green belt contracts that they just fucked up this is a government that can't do two things at once because it can't afford to do one thing right yeah
Corey
57:42
look the the notion that politics isn't about logistics uh
Corey
57:47
uh only somebody who's never done an e-day would believe
Carter
57:51
believe that god i've never done a day
Carter
57:53
day oh my god you
Zain
57:55
you know what's worse than doing any days preparing to to do an e-day and then um having to buy all those cell phones and then having uh having mall security
Corey
58:04
having mall security yeah have
Corey
58:07
you told that story on the pod recently do people know i don't know it's just it's fine zane got detained zane got detained he got racially profiled a lot of cell phones because he just bought a bunch of burner phones yeah yeah maybe it wasn't racial profiling my activity
Zain
58:22
activity uh they profiled uh this is both of those things i'm gonna end it here carter start you're not
Carter
58:29
not allowed into jamaica so andrew
Zain
58:32
andrew sheer overrated underrated he gets a 500 penalty it was discovered by cbc earlier this year on for the conservative house leader andrew sheer that is this is not while he was speaker this is in his current role after he broke rules by filming a partisan video in his parliamentary office. This is a $500 fine that the campaign of the person he was endorsing reimbursed in terms of payment of that fine. This would not be a big deal in its own right, Carter, but of course, Andrew Scheer was on the front lines of grilling Speaker Greg Fergus around his inappropriate partisan conduct as Speaker. Overrated or or underrated the Andrew Scheer $500 fine that he had to pay conducting partisan activity in his parliamentary office?
Carter
59:22
Underrated? I mean, I think there was a time when people actually used to care about these things. You know, these rules were in place for a reason. These rules are designed to separate the business of working for the people and your partisan activities. I think that it's an important distinction that people understand that they are not partisan when they're in the, I mean, yes, of course, there's partisan activities every day in the House of Commons, but it's
Carter
59:55
it's not supposed to be a partisan structure. It's supposed to be a structure whereby
Carter
1:00:00
people are working together to
Carter
1:00:03
to achieve the best possible outcome for Canadians. And we forget that at our peril. And Andrew Scheer having to pay a fine, I mean, he's probably going to have to dig deep into his insurance background
Carter
1:00:16
background to dig up that kind of money.
Corey
1:00:19
yeah Corey yeah look I think it's overrated but it's funny it is very funny because of course Scheer himself was a speaker and so there's a lot of things here that effectively give the liberals a bit of a rhetorical out gives the NDP a bit of cover for supporting Fergus here people can easily say you did the same thing you weren't supposed to do it ha ha ha I do believe the reality is a bit different between what you should expect of a speaker and what you should expect of a mp i
Carter
1:00:43
i mean i do though cory come on yeah
Corey
1:00:46
yeah but he's also former leader of the conservatives like we're not pretending that andrew sheer is is a non-partisan are we no
Corey
1:00:54
right uh but but look uh yes everything steven said about how this place is supposed to operate is true i think the lived reality is a bit different partisan activity occurs just by dint of the mp being a partisan and hanging out in those offices so much. That's just a reality. The speaker is supposed to be different. The speaker is supposed to separate themselves. I do not think this is an apples-to-apples comp, but like I said, it is very funny.
Zain
1:01:21
We are going to leave it there, Stephen Carter. That's a wrap on episode 1274 of The Strategist. My name is Zane Velji. With me, as always, Corey Hogan, Stephen Carter, and we'll see you next time.
Zain
1:01:37
now with all this call ben.ca talk you probably forgot about an even more important site telldave.ca now at telldave.ca you can tell Dave Cornway a noted political blogger historian of Alberta politics that the best political play of 2023 was us winning best political play of 2023 so let me just break this down for you you would be voting for something that hasn't happened yet yet. Okay, everything else that that's that's a finalist has already happened. So what you would be voting for is for us to win this category. And when that happens, that would be the best thing to happen. But here's the thing, your vote made it happen. Right? So you're influencing the future by negating the past. Okay, don't even try to work that out. It does make sense. And I need you to do it. You need to go to tell Dave.ca you need to make this happen. Not for me, but mainly yes for for me.