Transcript
Annalise
0:01
Welcome to The Strategist, episode 1039. I'm your host, Annalise Klingbeil, and with you, as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan. You
Carter
0:10
You know, why couldn't you bring the fire like you did just before we started to record? You know, where's the fire? You just slagged me so hard before we started to record. I'm still pissed. And then you come in with this kind of weak sauce introduction, like you're
Annalise
0:24
you're the nice one. to
Carter
0:25
it you're the night i
Annalise
0:27
i was waiting for your countdown and then you're mad at me so you wouldn't even look at me i'm
Carter
0:32
i'm not even looking at you because you pissed me off you're so mean don't
Annalise
0:35
don't worry my friend cory hogan is here i was here for it i appreciated it yeah
Corey
0:43
you should have introduced him as the ghost of stephen carter because he was outright murdered uh before the
Carter
0:48
the show just before the show started and you know what we're not even going to tell you what she she said we're
Carter
0:52
we're just gonna leave it out there and just know just know you know what it was fucking brutal
Corey
0:57
we'll we'll put it on patreon yeah
Annalise
0:59
yeah and then we'll pay well yeah we'll
Corey
1:01
we'll pay wallet um
Corey
1:03
your shame can be behind a paywall steve yeah
Corey
1:06
is normally the case anyhow but just in a different
Corey
1:09
different way just 50
Carter
1:09
50 of the time my shame's behind the paywall 50 of the time
Annalise
1:13
speaking of paywall i don't know if you guys know on our last paywall episode when carter made a plug for merch it worked people bought merch get
Carter
1:22
that's true when do i get
Annalise
1:23
get my you know that
Annalise
1:24
because that person who bought it tweeted about how much it worked she's
Annalise
1:28
she's like hey i bought two mugs good job advertising
Corey
1:31
advertising works the strategist.ca now
Corey
1:33
it's been said that we have an authenticity problem and people regularly tell us when we plug merch they're surprised that there's actually merch because
Carter
1:41
because sometimes yeah sometimes we make up bits it's actually merch but
Carter
1:46
but there's actually merch yep guys
Annalise
1:49
guys go buy strategist merch everyone listening um we're gonna we're we're gonna jump into it we've got lots to talk about today it's
Annalise
1:57
it's budget day in alberta it's
Annalise
1:59
it's also in bc cory
Annalise
2:01
cory you're taking you're taking my lines also in bc but we're in alberta i care about alberta we should talk about alberta um
Carter
2:10
that's good because i didn't really look at the bc one yet so let's try and focus well
Corey
2:14
well there's an election in alberta there is actually like oh yeah there's consequences this
Corey
2:18
this is an election budget this
Annalise
2:23
um okay let's jump into our first segment money money money um
Annalise
2:31
why are you laughing look
Carter
2:33
look at your face when you said the third money it was like it's something i'll never have one
Carter
2:38
one day this whole podcast could blow up you could have dozens of dollars
Annalise
2:43
um okay so to minister where what happened today minister travis taves tables the budget this afternoon um the ndp want this to be premier daniel smith's first and last budget the election obviously is slated to occur in a couple months um and this budget comes as provincial revenues from royalties are sky high the pre-election budget today unveiled that was unveiled today day, it has a surplus of $2.4 billion. And it includes increased spending on a range of areas like healthcare, education, police, and even the Premier's own office budget. So lots to discuss. I know both of you have many, many thoughts. Let's dive in and let's just start at the big picture. Carter, what is your overall reaction to the budget? And I think it's worth noting the UCP, you know they've been leaking out tidbits of budget stuff for weeks was today's budget what you expected it would be well
Carter
3:43
well i mean i'm calling this the jason kenney budget this is uh programs and ideas that jason kenney started there's no nothing particularly new here um danielle smith it seems like just mere months ago was musing about killing the uh spring bank uh dry dam project but that's still listed as one of the the key infrastructure projects one of the things to your hat on on this budget. I didn't see anything particularly new. You know, there was nothing that got me excited as an Albertan that, oh, maybe we're going to get high speed rail. Nope, that's not here. Instead, it's a $5 million study into a blue line expansion, you know, on a project that is actually quite a ways down the capital list of things that need to happen in the city of Calgary. I don't see the mayors of Edmonton or Calgary running around, you know slapping each other on the back saying oh thank god for everything we just got i
Carter
4:38
mean calgary ostensibly got more than edmonton and i'd be really hard pressed to tell you anything that really mattered in calgary certainly what what
Carter
4:46
what did calgary get we got some investment in the dude in the deer foot we got some uh specific investment in a north calgary health clinic uh which will uh benefit i don't know people who live in the north i guess and it's for airdrie as well. Um, I don't think that that's necessarily a project that needed to be done, but you know, there was a lot of pressure from the folks in the North to do that. Um, you know, small projects. I mean, the Deerfoot was one of the largest, uh, at, uh, 300 million or something along those lines. Well, that's not even an interchange really. I mean, like on the Deerfoot, it's, it's a significant project to, to redo, uh, what we used to call the Deerfoot squeeze, right? The, the extra lane that just kind of disappears at Glenmore. This isn't going to do it. It's just simply not going to do it, not to the standards of today's road construction. So what did we get? What are the things that people are going to be talking about at the water cooler tomorrow? Because they're certainly not going to be talking about the influx of funding to primary care or maybe the billion dollars in total spending that goes to healthcare. But I don't even think that Because I think the billion dollars that's being spent in health care is actually, you know,
Carter
5:59
know, it's so spread out that you don't actually see anything that gets you excited. And I'm certainly not thinking that this, to me, would be my, you know, if I was going up against in an election where, you know, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan predicted that the most likely outcome is 44-43, I'll tell you something, I'd be trying to buy an extra couple of seats if it were me. me.
Carter
6:21
I don't see an extra couple seats being purchased in Calgary at all. Not at all. Corey,
Annalise
6:26
Corey, why don't you jump in there? Do you agree with what Carter's saying? Do you think this is a winning budget going into a close election? Or is it a losing budget?
Corey
6:36
So it's interesting, because I agree with Stephen, when you look at it through like a capital projects lens, there's not the big splashy ticket items I would have expected going into an election election in Calgary, right? You know, normally, when you think of election budgets, you think of big projects, people are going to talk about shovels in the ground kind of stuff there. And in that sense, it's really not. Stephen's right, the amount of money put into these projects, relatively modest compared to the cost of these projects. The blue line one was interesting. So that's the spur line that would go to the airport on Calgary's northeast LRT line. And as Stephen even said like not actually that high on the capitalist this is kind of a growing trend in governments for them to kind of ignore the people they're funding and just pick the thing that they want to do no matter where it is on the list i think in the 90s we got into this idea of lists and we wanted transparency and lists and that grew in credence over decades people seem to have just walked away from
Corey
7:31
entirely and gone into kind of this pork barrel approach again that was more popular before that but you know let's step outside of capital for a minute because for me the operating budget was more interesting. And in an operating sense, I don't feel like it was a Kenny budget at all. You know, the budget, it does come, you know what I thought it was? I thought it was a PC budget. I thought it was a PC election budget. And I thought, oh, I guess we're doing this again, right? Where we reduce, we reduce, reduce, and it's an election year. And let's slap 5% into that, 5% into that, 5% into that, and claim the good times are back again. And that That was really interesting to me. It tells you a little bit, I think, about where the UCP's head is right now, where they're worried about shoring up.
Corey
8:15
But yeah, I mean, it's ultimately a pretty forgettable budget, in my opinion. in. Totally.
Annalise
8:20
I guess just to back up a bit, talk to me about what the strategy here going into an election is, right? Like we know budgets are important. Budgets in Alberta before elections are important. We all know what happened after Jim Prentice's tough times budget in 2015. So if you were advising, what's your strategy unveiling a budget when there's this huge huge surplus, and oil's doing great, and we have an election in, you know, red drop in two months. What should be the strategy?
Corey
8:54
Yeah. So the strategy has, I think, over time morphed. Like when you look at old budgets, they're fiscal documents, that's it, right? But somewhere along the way, people have come to the realization that money's pretty useful when you're trying to get people to get excited about things. So what happens now with the budget is it's the event, it's today, but of growing importance are the days around the event. So we've seen an awful lot of pre-budget leaks this time around. That's gone on forever. But, you know, what we used to do is we used to just give it to the media and like it would be in a Don Brady column all of a sudden, like we hear this money is coming, right? Right. What we've seen this time is actual government boards announcing money like board like social media boards announcing money before that money's been announced in the legislature, which is arguably not even allowed. Right. Yeah. But we're seeing more of that. You're also going to see over the next bit. I am sure of it.
Corey
9:53
Governments use this money to control the agenda, I guess, is the point I want to make. So they tried to control it in the weeks before and they will try to control it with the weeks to come. and you'll see a lot of the the roadshow small town investments that were in the budget but haven't been announced in the budget big line items that haven't been made fully clear being articulated and clarified as the budget goes on and i would bet for the next two to three weeks minimum you're
Corey
10:16
you're going to have an announcement a day of money for various interests not even so much because of the value of the money although that's obviously there and the stakeholder group you know, enthusiasm will follow, but because it controls the narrative, it controls the agenda and the conversation, and it keeps the opposition responding to good news government announcements instead of trying to drive their own agenda. So that's the real value of the budget. It's not so much that it's a set piece today, it's that it signals spending season. And as a result, it signals, you know, a season where government really gets to control the agenda more than they they do in the rest of the year.
Annalise
10:53
Carter, do you have anything else there on the strategy front? And I guess to like keeping Calgary in mind, knowing, you
Annalise
11:01
know, that it all comes down to Calgary. So what does that strategy look like in Calgary specifically?
Carter
11:08
Well, I mean, when I worked on the budget in 2011, 2012, what we had to try and come up with was a budget that satisfied two halves of a party. One half was fiscal constraint, and the other half was spending money on things that people actually wanted. And it was a tough balance, right? Because when you try and balance a budget, you have to make tough decisions. And the thing with this particular budget, they didn't have to make any tough decisions. There's so much royalty money coming through. And this is something that really isn't the preamble of the budget, but really is the central element of it. We have
Carter
11:46
reached payout on a number of oil sands projects. We've talked about this before in the past. How important is that? Imagine going from a 4% royalty to a 45% royalty. You don't have to imagine it. It's actually what happens. It is a massive change in the way that the revenue structures are put in. And then there's one line just in the finance side of this budget that simply says there are no additional oil sands projects projected. rejected that
Carter
12:13
that has been where the where the where the where the um employment comes from right those projects are the things that hire two three four five thousand albertans to work on them and the the benefits of that employment just kind of spins around the province of alberta that has been gone since 2014 2013 arguably it
Carter
12:34
it is not coming back and that is what the government has said what we are are seeing is and i believe that travis taves actually quoted this in his budget speech this is the last oil boom we promise not to piss it away this time except
Annalise
12:47
use the word piss carter
Carter
12:52
now that just takes all the wind right out of my sails annalise i mean why you got to be like this the whole time except
Annalise
12:57
except keep going oh actually accurate when does that become a thing oh you didn't see it he didn't um he didn't use the word piss because because he, what did he say? Squander? Tinkle
Annalise
13:08
Tinkle it away. He should have used the word piss and
Carter
13:11
and then we'd at least have something to talk about.
Annalise
13:13
about. Carter, you were saying such smart, intelligent things there. Get back on that thing that I interrupted you.
Carter
13:18
you. And then you interrupted me and it's all gone. You know, I barely put it together there, Annalise. Thanks a lot. Bottom line, this is the beginning of the end of the oil and gas money. And when you're getting 20 plus billion, I think it was 26 billion, almost 27 billion in royalties right now, that is oh it is very nearing 50 of spending right
Carter
13:38
right like this is a massive
Carter
13:40
massive problem in the future right
Carter
13:44
right we have to balance our revenues and expenses without using royalties at some point it doesn't matter if it's today tomorrow or the next day at some point in the future we will be reducing the amount of royalty money that we are bringing in and we need to pay for the things that we want um
Carter
13:59
um this budget just kicked the can and and cory's description of this is as a pc budget probably is the best there is because there's no financial restraint there's no there's no addressing um you know the the future uh a carbon intensive future or car you know de-intensifying carbon in the future and there's no addressing uh the the revenue imbalance that we have in this province.
Corey
14:25
me jump in on that. I'm not that interested in giving just a critique of what I like or don't like about the budget. There's other people who can do that. But I'll say from a strategy point of view, what I find really interesting is that this particular budget is exactly what Stephen said. It's a big spending budget. It is $68 billion spending budget. That number boggles my mind. I remember when we were flirting with $50 billion and thinking, oh my lord you know 55 billion jesus that's a lot of money 68 boom like that and the debt actually does not go down over the next four years the debt is held constant in this budget despite the despite the small surpluses that are going forward and we've basically taken a line that we used to mock other provinces for doing which is like well but our debt to gdp ratio is okay yeah
Corey
15:16
and actually it probably is, to be totally fair. It's about 10%. It's probably fine. But it is a far cry from that, you know, conservative battle cry of, of reducing debt and the ills of debt. And if this is truly the last oil boom, this does nothing to structurally change our finances. And that's really interesting.
Annalise
15:39
Carter, you want to
Carter
15:39
to jump in there?
Carter
15:42
there's something to be is said for, you know, the structural change and the booms and those types of things. Those are all challenging. But what I think is interesting about this, and Corey's talked about this a number of times over the years, is that budgets are a communications document. And what I want to understand from this document is what is the communication through line? There is an increase of almost a billion dollars in public safety spending, almost all of which is going to, it appears, the sheriffs and public spending. You know, this is something that's going to be uh, addressed in the future. Um, this is the first step towards a provincial police force, right? Like they are, they are taking the first step towards a provincial police force and they are doing it not in the small towns, uh, that we kind of imagined it to be, but instead we're starting to see provincial police forces in our large cities. Um, and this is something that we, you know, I don't think anybody was really expecting, uh, was to see that this deployment would happen in in our big cities first this is this is a very interesting strategy because I'm not sure that you get the big bump that you would have gotten from spending you know a lot more money on public safety in rural areas where this is a much bigger issue than spending it in downtown Calgary because downtown Calgary they've got a billion dollar hole on on their downtown downtown revitalization not one penny went to it last year was only five million dollars it was laughable but last year was five million dollars more than this year uh an absolute joke in terms of what they're spending in the downtown core so i'm just like how do you expect to clear up the
Carter
17:16
the downtown you're just gonna put everybody in jail because
Carter
17:20
that's not gonna work that's not way our court system but
Corey
17:22
but steven it's not actually for downtown right it's it's for people There are people who hear stories about how scary downtown is and now
Corey
17:29
the government is doing something about these scary downtowns. You and I know that's not the case. I live just on the other side of downtown. I go for walks downtown all the time. I'm never that worried. But there is this image of this growing lawlessness downtown. And so by sending the sheriffs there, people who live in the suburbs and exurbs can feel more comfortable about downtown, which they think is a very scary place. But
Carter
17:52
But is this, is this actually going to get that talking point delivered? Like they've got so many talking, this is one of the challenges of every budget. And Corey, you had to communicate this. So I'm going to, I'm going to step on your toes a bit and you'll clean it up. But there, when
Carter
18:05
when you have this many things, you are literally spending all the money on all the things. This is everything the government's going to do in
Carter
18:11
the next year, right? And arguably for the next two, three, four, five years where they're doing their projections out. How do you come up with a through line? And the through line that I have from this budget is there is no through line. And you can see that with the way the media is reporting on it. The media, the pundits, the observers, they're all calling this a big spending budget. But when you look at it, when you dig into it, what are they spending it on? How are Albertans actually going to feel the difference in their own pocketbooks? Because there's not very much new here. and having run an election in 2012 on not very much new here in a budget i can tell you that is a fucking nightmare to be in we wound up basically throwing away our budget document and starting to spend money willy-nilly uh in order to try and win back the public's attention uh because the public wasn't paying attention to our budget document because there was nothing to pay attention to so
Annalise
19:06
so what what's like kind of what you've said there um carter which was very very very smart. But
Annalise
19:16
what you've said about the big spending thing is exactly it, right? If you look at the headlines, okay, it's a big spending budget, $68 billion, that's a lot. But what are those big spending things? Where's our train to the airport? Where's, you know, some of the big expensive promises that they've talked about before? There's no kind of takeaway. It's like, Like, oh, well, there's more money here, more money here. But what are those big things? And I guess is that, like, does this budget fail going into an election if no one really knows what the takeaways from it are?
Corey
19:53
So let me jump in there and just say, like, I think it's too soon to tell. Like, I really want to stress budget day is not an event, like not a day, at least. Like, there's more to come. We already know there's this idea of an Alberta fund, which has money set aside for next fiscal. i'm i'm baffled from an accounting treatment how it works i i need to dig into it more perhaps the budget documents say it but they're they're clearly trying to find money and put money aside for things to come and they always do going into an election because they want to be able to announce things so there'll be there'll be pots of money either the surplus that's unspent or dollars that are unallocated with that they can then build into these announcements going forward and be able to say and by the way this is our there's room for it it's funded it's already good And that is increasingly what people do going into an election here, right? They identify blocks of dollars and they try to control the agenda going forward. We haven't seen the full budget yet. The legislature won't even see the full, I mean, they'll see the full legal budget, but they're not going to see the full consequences of that budget. This budget undoubtedly has been built with consideration that a general election is coming. And because one is, they're not going to put everything in the budget, right? They're going to hold a few things back. And I think you can expect that at least a few big ticket items are still to come. Let
Carter
21:11
me posit an idea towards you. And
Carter
21:13
And you tell me again if I'm crazy, Corey.
Carter
21:16
What if Travis Taves didn't write the budget that way?
Corey
21:20
Like, I'm just flipping. Well, that would be really bad by him. I'm
Carter
21:25
I'm flipping through the budget, and I'm not seeing the pockets of opportunity that you're describing. Because I've written the pockets of opportunity before. You've seen the pockets of opportunity. There's no pockets of opportunity in this budget. Sorry, Annalise.
Annalise
21:36
No, that's another interesting point, Carter. But what I was going to ask was, is this, like, is this a Taves budget or is this a Daniel Smith budget? And do we think behind the scenes, they're on the same page?
Corey
21:52
know it seems a little free spending for taves in my experience with him there there is some talk about wanting there to be like you know longer term fiscal restraint balanced budget laws that kind of stuff which does seem like the travis taves i know um but it certainly feels like an election budget right the idea that you're all of a sudden spending increasing on health by four percent increasing education what 5.5 percent just splashing some money around that's
Carter
22:17
that's the type of money splash generates virtually no outcome well
Carter
22:23
that's why i think it's about
Carter
22:24
it i think it's more taves than it is smith
Corey
22:27
it's after holding the line so it's also like do people see it as like okay we're back to normal or money is coming back in it's just it's really interesting to me it's
Carter
22:35
it's a really tough budget i think to go out and sell i mean if you were if you and i cory were asked to go and sell this budget you
Carter
22:41
you know could we no
Corey
22:44
no so i wouldn't right i would use this as my my defensive shield against the ndp's attacks on health care and education and then i would spend all of my time talking about the economy and fighting with ottawa if i was danielle smith so i think we have to assume that's actually what's going to happen like in some ways this is maybe boring as the point of this budget from a strategy point of view it's like here
Corey
23:06
we are you know what do you even talk about health spending went up four percent education spending went up five percent You know what? We're in a position to do that because the UCP government has put this province back on track. And for years, we had to hit the brakes because of the bad, bad government of Rachel Notley. Like, how is that not going to be their story going
Annalise
23:24
going forward? Okay, but Corey, are you saying it's a boring budget full of pockets of opportunity that we're going to hear about in
Annalise
23:31
in the coming weeks?
Corey
23:32
Well, so there's the operating budget, you know. So I think the, let's put it this way. Carter's point about, like, it's all the money cannot be overstated here. Like $68 billion is an unfathomable amount of money. That's basically the same amount of money as like IBM globally spends in a year, right? Like that's, government is a huge part of our life. And we forget that, right? Like $68 billion is mental amounts of money. And so, you know, there's all sorts of opportunities that you can sprinkle in within there. But it is anchored by a bunch of really big, really expensive rocks, education, healthcare, like the delivery of those services. And I think that Stephen's right, like it goes up 5%. That's a tough budget to sell. That's not very interesting. That's just operating money 5%. But the sale is maybe not the point. Maybe it's defensive on that stuff. Those big rocks are defensive. But I have to imagine there's a few billion dollars that are there to allow them to do things that they want to do in the next election.
Carter
24:32
I don't know. We made that mistake. We made that mistake, which is why I asked the question, because we didn't leave enough, you know, pockets of cash to go back in and kind of start moving things around. So we had to kind of react on the fly because we had done a budget that said this is what our future is going to look like. uh what i frankly was still very proud of but we had to we were getting eaten alive by the uh the people the people who expected to see stuff uh like i i have said it a million times people expect their
Carter
25:07
their people are selfish and they expect something good to come from these types of budgets and i think that danielle smith is going to be hard pressed to for to
Carter
25:20
what good is going to come from this budget you know when i look at the tidbits coming to calgary and the tidbits going to edmonton um i just don't i think there'll be a few happy organizations but i'm not sure that 7.5 million dollars for the uh wind sport um you
Carter
25:38
you know lodge is really going to get them there yeah
Corey
25:42
yeah but they're you know they're going to say like we have to take care of the economy before we can take care of each other and they're not going to use those words right They say, we're going to have to take care of the economy before we can afford to have the most generous social programs. And the peril, the cautionary tale of the NDP years is we didn't take care of the economy. And then look what had to happen in all of these spending programs. Now, of course, like they're the ones who did those actions. So it's a bit ridiculous. But that's going to be a line that has some currency with Albertans. And it does allow them to speak in their message box about economy. And you want to know one of the most baffling things about today's budget. It's just the most baffling from my point of view, is that the UCP stood up there and invested a pile of money into social services and talked about that all day. And the NDP attacked them for it being a big spending budget, you know, most expensive summer ever coming. You know, that's really weird to me because it seems like both of them were in the other person's message box. So, like, what do you make of that? Yeah,
Annalise
26:38
I wanted to get into opposition reaction. And I know that was a line repeated several times today, most expensive summer ever.
Annalise
26:48
What strategy wise from the NDP? What's your advice for them? What do they do, especially when we're seeing and we can we can talk about healthcare kind of separately, because I want to get into that given yesterday's news. But when the UCP is investing in healthcare and education, what where does that leave NDP strategy wise?
Carter
27:08
I mean, who's actually seeing the benefit from the health care and the education, right? I think that there's a case to be made that, you know, the average parent's not going to see this when they drop their kid off at school. I think that there's a case to be made that, you know, your commute to work's not going to get any easier. There's a case to be made that health care needs, you know, needs reform, not more money. And that's where you can start going after this. the money that's going into this isn't going into our pockets the money that's going into this is going somewhere else i mean it's it's going away but just because you spend a lot of money doesn't mean that i'm going to feel it and i think that the case can be made by the ndp that this money isn't is not actually getting to the people who need it the most you know the most pressing issues that we have in calgary and edmonton are you know the revitalization of our downtowns not a penny not a penny um those would be dollars that you feel immediately because as soon as you start to get the downtown's revitalized that means less taxes for you to pay right
Carter
28:14
right you will pay less taxes in the future if we put this billion dollars into downtown calgary and it would be market it'd be significant amount of less taxes we
Carter
28:23
we you know this is a big thing cory
Carter
28:26
cory jump in yeah
Corey
28:27
less tax fewer taxes that just you know just to put
Corey
28:32
put that out there
Carter
28:32
is how we in the real world say it cory
Corey
28:37
if i'm the ndp oh
Carter
28:38
oh he's a fucking i
Corey
28:39
i think the challenge is to spend all of this time saying like they're spending like i think spending too much is just way off message for them i
Corey
28:45
don't know i don't i don't appreciate or understand what they're doing there from a strategy point of view i i think that it's particularly challenging because there's been reductions uh in the past couple of years in in kind of real terms when you consider inflation plus growth and i i think it should have been treated more as like you
Corey
29:05
know you should always be skeptical of deathbed conversions you know the ucp showed you who they were over the last four years believe them this budget is because they know they're about to face you and they're gonna have to try to make good of it but like you know when when the you know the dad leaves for cigarettes and comes back four years years later and says but hey look i brought the cigarettes you don't applaud the dad right like
Corey
29:25
like there's there is a dereliction of duty in the times in between that needs to be addressed like this is this is i think stronger area for the ndp to consider than than the idea that this is the most expensive summer ever because yeah
Corey
29:37
yeah what does that mean you would actually spend less on health and education than the ucp well
Carter
29:41
well the most expensive summer ever is just literally outside you know who are they now the pcs like what
Corey
29:47
what oh and it's so inside ball like that that you know like the The best summer ever stuff is something that political hacks say to each other as kind of a flip reminder of the UCP. That's not what Albertans are talking about.
Carter
29:58
What they need to focus on is the impact on individual people, the places that the money is not being spent, and the focus on things like the $20 billion for, you know, abandoned oil wells. That type of stuff has resonance, whereas, you know, the most expensive budget ever, I mean, you're just totally outside of your world. get out of that space um you know i'm assuming again that uh that lou and uh rachel are listening and in the car yeah in the car um rachel stop swearing for a moment and just listen for a second your messaging today wasn't great you can do better focus on the people that you want to serve and stay in your side of the message box uh
Carter
30:42
uh court you have anything you want to say to rachel
Corey
30:44
I mean, I hope things are well.
Annalise
30:48
Carter, to your point about focusing on those people who aren't feeling benefits from this budget, there's a lot of them, are there not? Like there's a lot of sectors that haven't gotten
Annalise
31:00
gotten what they want out of this budget.
Carter
31:03
mean, if you're the tech sector, you're sitting here going, well, this is it. We've got the world by the tail now. Everything's going to work out for us. if you're the service sector if you're the if you're uh tourism uh which has struggled so mightily over the last few years are you saying well this is the big comeback for us um if you're an oil and gas sure things are probably just rosy um because you're making so much money without having to invest in any new spending uh but you know this is this isn't helping enough people this isn't helping enough people fast enough um you know basically the the the supports that are coming in for for you to to settle down the cost of living these are supports that we've had with us for the last few years these aren't new supports these are the same supports that we had before you
Carter
31:53
you know what are you going to do for me this to you this year uh what are you going to do for me now that's what people want to know and that's where the ndp really have an opportunity here is to jump in and say yeah what what can we do that
Carter
32:07
that will help individuals what can we do that will help moms and dads like it's it's so easy to get caught up on the groups forget about groups focus on people individuals that's where the opportunity lies yeah
Corey
32:21
yeah and look i think that there is there's something to be said for it's it's harder to climb out of a hole than just to to walk past one and and this like this is this is now fixing problems they created in the system you
Corey
32:32
you know be be leery of that you know be leery of this last minute money and and that would probably be carter's
Corey
32:39
carter's right it's all about people it's focusing on the people it's it's reminding people of the course of action in the past expanding the points of view here uh beyond just this particular budget it's not saying that this budget is a big spending budget i don't know who they are if that's their message and that's a problem like because not like albertans are going to look at that you
Corey
32:59
you never want to be a surprise to people like if you're if you're a well-defined political party with a well-defined brand most of the time people should be able to look at the things you do and they should say oh that makes sense yeah of course that's the way they're going to be that's the nature of brand brand is our ability to shorthand and say we know what the ndp response to that would be we know what the ucp response would be to that today i'm
Corey
33:20
i'm confused about both of their brands you know that's that's an interesting thing about today well
Annalise
33:24
well and the the all about people thing exactly right like communications 101 carter just so much good smart oh my god
Annalise
33:36
let's uh you know that's the sort of thing i would expect to hear from cory but it's just out of your mouth tonight carter let's talk a little bit about carter i think it was you actually who brought this up um but i just want to dive into this thread the the police force the sheriff stuff um so the they're still considering creating their own police force there's no specific
Annalise
33:56
money in this budget for that but there's like 84 million um for policing and sheriffs and um exploring alternative policing models in municipalities and this comes after this announcement we saw in calgary last week if not the week before about putting sheriffs downtown i believe there was a similar one in edmonton i guess what do you uh carter if you want to jump in like what do you what
Annalise
34:22
what do you make of that and from a strategy point of view does that the fact that there's now a dozen or however many sheriffs boots on the ground in downtown calgary does that win them both in calgary i
Carter
34:34
don't think so i mean i think that most people don't interact i mean there's going to be lots of people downtown especially over the This summer, we'll see more and more people coming back to their offices. Still not everybody's back downtown, right? So as they start coming back, they may see different uniforms, but I'm not sure they're going to put it all together. It's not like the sheriffs are going to be handing out leaflets. Hi, we're the new sheriff in town, literally. Well,
Corey
35:00
now I think they should. Now
Carter
35:01
Now I know, right? It's really good. Really good communication tactic. But, you know, so I'm not sure they're going to get much in the way of benefit for that. And when you look at polling, starting up your own police force doesn't have that much positivity. One thing that has gone kind of unnoticed is that the government of Alberta did give, I think it was $16 million or something like that, to the city of Grand Prairie to start their own municipal police force. Well, you know, Surrey just went that way and they're switching back to the RCMP, or at least they're trying to. this is a expensive venture and i think that cities and provinces that try this venture are going to find themselves spending a hell of a lot more money so again this this is an opportunity to talk about you know we you know obviously in the ndp war room i'd be saying we want to keep spending you know
Carter
35:52
know local we want cities to be able to address issues with policing because we can trust our city politicians in a way that we can't trust our provincial politicians is
Annalise
36:03
that not though like
Annalise
36:05
like does that not get a little bit in the weeds or complicated if you're someone who's been downtown and felt unsafe like how do you how do you fight with someone's like you know personal sense of what they felt well
Carter
36:20
are you going to feel more safe just because there's more police around certainly
Carter
36:23
certainly not if you're in a minority well not
Carter
36:25
not if you're a visual minority minority or not well
Corey
36:29
well i think you're oversimplifying
Carter
36:30
oversimplifying i'm not oversimplifying it i'm not at all it's absolutely you know we have had the visible minority counselors have been in council have all been pulled over by the city police in a way that the white counselors haven't and i'm just picking a very small sample of people tell
Carter
36:47
tell me tell me that it's not true when it's true it's
Carter
36:51
it's It's absolutely true. So the fact that there are new people downtown wearing new uniforms isn't going to make a whole lot of people feel a lot more safe.
Annalise
37:00
But to Corey's earlier point, aren't
Annalise
37:02
aren't some of these people, these people in the suburbs who don't ever go downtown, but have seen a few headlines that it's bad and scary down there? Like, I guess just from a strategy, but from a strategy point of view, they're clearly going hard on this like police force thing, sheriffs in downtown Calgary. Why? Is that just because this is who they are or do they think this wins foes?
Carter
37:23
No, they think that this is the step towards getting their police forces.
Carter
37:30
Do you think Calgarians want that? They need to just start walking towards the end goal.
Corey
37:35
Yeah, can I tell you, if that is their plan, it's a bad one, right? They should, because they have unless they're planning to run the election on a police force, which is also a bad plan based on what we know about polling there, then they're kind of trying to set up the chessboard for moves that might happen after checkmate like they should be exercising towards an election not towards a police force which is like a post-election challenge of theirs i think it's about about
Corey
38:01
about appearing to address an issue that is rising in salience with people which is crime right and and people have this fear of crime and they have this sense that downtown is this crime ridden place and and this is just trying to address it in a way that is showy and splashy and its boots on the ground and it's kind of like the simplest most straightforward path to being given uh credit
Corey
38:23
credit for this because it's not even that you're getting the local police force it's you're getting provincial police in there you know the sheriffs are in town to your point
Carter
38:34
be a really good line if they need brochures i'm
Carter
38:36
i'm telling you they should listen to my super smart commentary hey annalise yeah
Annalise
38:41
yeah you should do communications for the sheriff's carter that's what i'm hearing fantastic
Annalise
38:45
fantastic you totally should um okay let's jump into health care health care health care health care you like that carter oh
Annalise
38:54
love that uh yeah
Corey
38:55
yeah it's a call back to the other title yeah you
Corey
38:57
see what i did there
Corey
38:58
what you know zane would have had like five penis jokes by now yeah just for the record very
Annalise
39:04
um so we i mean a few different things we can talk about here is health care in terms of today's budget and then as well on monday alberta became the seventh province to sign an agreement in principle with ottawa on health care funding more than 24 billion will be invested in our health care system over the next decade also yesterday alberta health services um their official administrator released his 90-day progress report which is another kind of interesting little health care tidbit um but i guess the big question here and carter let's start with you is like how does this announcement of a deal with Ottawa change some
Annalise
39:46
some of your previous advice for the NDP and I guess the UCP for that matter when it comes to healthcare as we head into the election?
Carter
39:54
Well, I mean, I think that the opportunity for the NDP is that people are wondering where this money is going to be spent, right? You know, today's budget didn't give us much in the way of kind of a roadmap. Now, in fairness, the deal was signed today, so it's not like, or yesterday, so it's not like they had a tremendous
Carter
40:12
tremendous opportunity to incorporate this into the budget. But let's
Carter
40:15
let's put that money into perspective. We increased healthcare spending to, you know, by less than a billion dollars.
Carter
40:22
You know, more billions are going to be coming in for the UCP. So where are they actually spending them? Who's actually going to be seeing that benefit? Because as to right now, I'm not sure that this change of putting their their health czar in place has actually created real positive outcomes from the people actually seeking health care um i'd stand to be corrected if someone can actually point me to you
Carter
40:47
you know where those uh measurable outcomes that i can't remember his name cory you probably have it on the tip of your tongue because you're super smart like that um but you know his report made made barely a ripple um in part because the budget was today and in part because i'm not sure that people are are thinking that this ucp government is where they're going to turn to to see significant changes in health care and again i could be wrong but i just don't think that they've got that brand position structure uh that cory kind of talked about before where you when you have a brand position you stick with it and people can automatically associate things with you well well, I don't associate good healthcare with Danielle Smith with her COVID
Annalise
41:36
But does the fact that, you know, they've made this deal with Ottawa and it happened fairly quickly, like does that mute a little bit of the criticism that could have come from the NDP?
Corey
41:48
So I would say the combination of this budget and yesterday's healthcare announcement, it's very, well, both of the healthcare announcements, both john cowell's report and the deal with the feds they are trying to take health care off the table right they are declaring this is the the equivalent of george w bush mission accomplished on health care yeah
Corey
42:07
they um there's there's logic to it because
Corey
42:11
because they are coming up to an election and at a certain point a
Corey
42:14
a former colleague of mine and stevens jim rakowski uh he used to say before an election like at a certain point uh
Corey
42:21
uh you have to create your own weather right oh yeah we worked You worked with him at Hill & Knowlton, but you would have worked with him in government there.
Corey
42:26
there. Yeah, I knew Jim. So I guess all of us know Jim.
Corey
42:30
But, you know, he would always say, at a certain point, you have to make your own weather. And it doesn't matter what the weather is. You just sort of declare the forecast. Yeah.
Corey
42:36
And there's a lot of logic to that at this particular moment for a government. Like, they can't go into an election saying healthcare is in crisis because they're the government. Now, is it remotely credible that our $25 billion healthcare system was quote-unquote fixed in four months?
Corey
42:56
Fuck no. It's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. Like, the boat doesn't turn that fast. You could have made the most seismic decision ever four months ago. It won't even have trickled down in the amount of time that we've had here for something the size that it is. But what
Corey
43:09
what else are they going to do? They have to say that healthcare is fine. fine. So they are taking these actions on healthcare, I would imagine, not so that they can talk about them, but so that they don't have to talk about healthcare, so that they can put in Albertans' minds enough doubt that there's even a problem anymore, right? Like, yeah, there was. And again, see my previous framing about, because we couldn't afford it because of the NDP's economic mismanagement, but we're out of that woods now. I fixed it in four months because I'm star spangled awesome. I'm Danielle Smith. And now let's talk about the economy and let's talk about fighting with justin so so
Carter
43:42
so can i just blow
Carter
43:43
blow a hole in your uh five-dimensional chest coming from the ucp argument because i i
Corey
43:50
i just think that
Carter
43:51
that this isn't who they are they're not that good at this politics i think that that they they wrote a this budget reflects to me bureaucracy this budget reflects um like there's no there's no visionary components to this budget There is nothing strategic to this budget that would reinforce the positioning that you're putting forth, Corey, that this has some sort of strategic genius
Carter
44:21
to it that is actually going to enable the UCP to get themselves out of what you were talking about a few minutes ago, which is this, we were the ones who cut healthcare, but don't worry, you can trust us to put it all back in. I just don't feel like that's the pattern. I don't feel like that's available to them. And I don't think that they're playing three-dimensional chess when they do this. I think that they remain a party that is governed by their ideology more than they are a party that's governed by, you know, strategic thought towards creating the best possible election outcome.
Corey
44:59
Yeah. So I would say it shouldn't be available to them, or at least that the NDP should be able to box them in on that and take it off the table for them. But I think the NDP is making a couple of errors there themselves. Like, effectively, you have to keep healthcare in the window and you have to make it the UCP's problem. So one of the things that came out yesterday in the coverage of this health care announcement was, I'm going to read you this quote from Laurie Sigurdsson, NDP MLA, talking
Corey
45:29
talking about the federal fund. Corey,
Annalise
45:31
Corey, I had that pulled up, so I'm glad you're doing it. Read us the close.
Corey
45:36
Yeah, quite simply, it's inadequate. There's broad consensus. The federal offer is too small, but Danielle Smith took it anyway. Both orders of government are failing Albertans. So here's my problem with that, right?
Corey
45:48
right? Right? First of all, I'm really curious who these voters are that the NDP are after who think like, boy, howdy, you know, I just think that the problem is we need somebody tougher on the federal government than Danielle Smith. And that's why I'm going to vote for Rachel Notley. Like I just I don't I think that's a unicorn and it doesn't exist. But the other problem and the more immediate problem is, why
Corey
46:11
why are you letting the UCP off the hook? You're now letting them split blame with Justin Trudeau. You're saying they're half the problem and Justin Trudeau is the other half of the problem. What is that? How is that to your benefit? How, how, how? Especially knowing that all of the polling shows that if people actually want a government to stand up to Ottawa, they're going to vote for Danielle Smith and the UCP. Like, not ambiguous on this point at all.
Corey
46:36
so so what is this for who is this for and why did you feel the need to take this very weird idiosyncratic position where you're fighting with the federal government on this and in doing so letting your actual opponent off the hook well
Carter
46:50
well i know the answer to this do
Carter
46:52
do you want me to answer this i
Carter
46:53
know the answer to this
Carter
46:55
the ndp feel right now that their best strategy is to meet every every single one of the UCPs, um, uh,
Carter
47:02
uh, complaints about them or, or, or, you know, uh, attacks in the field head on, they, they are running into the wall, whatever wall the UCP throw up, the NDP run straight on into it and say, no, we're not that. And there's no thought given to whether or not the swing voter, the voter that they need to actually move is voting on that issue. you yes or no they they just want to refute everything that the ucp says rather than spending a moment saying is this actually important to our real or to getting us and getting you know how hard it is how many times cory has there been a sitting premier who's gone to become the opposition leader to become the sitting premier again i
Carter
47:45
mean in your lifetime how many times has it happened because i can't think of one i
Annalise
47:50
we talked about this on the the last episode and i asked you if it had happened before yeah
Corey
47:54
and i assumed it would never come up again so i didn't look it up yeah well i can't even think of what
Carter
47:59
what i told you to look it up and here's but the ndp instead of recognizing this momentous thing that they have to achieve make rachel notley the premier again instead of doing that they are entirely focused on making sure that the nd the ucp doesn't get to define them even if that definition doesn't matter when it comes to the actual election and that just makes me nuts like sure if they are defining you in a way that will make it impossible for you to win the next election then you should refute it however if you know if it's not going to actually matter then what the fuck are you doing you're on their turf get off their turf focus on where you need to be and actually make shit happen for yourself and there's tons of land but they they haven't set upon an actual messaging framework how when did did we first start talking messaging framework cory i'd ask you annalise but you know you haven't listened so
Annalise
48:57
like it's a bad thing i mean
Corey
48:59
mean it's it's it's 101 stuff to your point carter it's telling a story it's telling a narrative listen i don't want to overreact to one comment and one story too why not but this is our brand part of my anxiety for the ndp here is it really It really does feel like history is repeating itself. Because
Corey
49:16
Because in my opinion, this was the fatal mistake of the NDP campaign in the lead up to and in the 2019 campaign.
Corey
49:23
They started making this pitch that they're who you want if you want a pipeline.
Corey
49:28
Well, if that's your issue, you're not voting NDP. so all you're doing is raising the salience of this particular issue and you're raising the urgency around it and you're you're sort of playing into the other guy's handbook and i get it like you
Corey
49:39
you have to address certain issues to the point where they're not disqualifying which is what i think that the ucp is trying to do on health care you think they're trying to do more than that and i think that rachel notley is sensibly saying i've got to address this ottawa stuff to the point where it's not disqualifying but this seems to be going further and this seems to be a cutting against some of the messaging that is actually more fertile, like healthcare. Like, again, I don't know why you would make Justin Trudeau the villain on healthcare. You want Daniel Smith to be the villain on healthcare. And
Corey
50:07
that's my fundamental problem there. And I think that there were ways that you could have made the
Corey
50:13
the UCP the villain and still cast shade on Justin Trudeau if you wanted to. You could say like, oh, look, Daniel Smith can fund billions for a profitable oil company, but seems to have a healthcare strategy of, I hope Justin Trudeau comes through for us right almost a laugh line because
Corey
50:26
people don't trust justin trudeau in this province you didn't need to say that justin trudeau is the reason health care is broken in alberta that's that's cutting against your strategy
Annalise
50:39
carter your response to that is a large sigh what
Carter
50:42
am i supposed to say what am i supposed to say like you tell me we are so frustrated on this this this podcast is so frustrated watching this this election unfold because it's not that dissimilar from the one we watched unfold in 2019, you
Carter
51:00
the NDP, the NDP don't
Carter
51:03
don't know what their brand structure is. They don't know how to access it. They don't know how to sell it. And because of that, they respond far too much. And too often to their, to their opposition, they let their opposition define where they're going to go. Now they still have time to change that. But Rachel, if you're listening, you don't have much time you
Carter
51:21
you got to move so
Corey
51:23
so i you know i will say this i think yes
Corey
51:26
yes it are we sit here and we critique strategy and i think there's some like weak strategy at play here on some of these matters not not disputing i think there's weak strategy on play for the ucp too i do want to throw out there and i've been meaning to say this for a couple of weeks pretty clearly i think the whole the ndp is blowing it narrative is also a little overblown okay
Corey
51:45
okay like like we're in an interesting situation where nobody is playing error-free ball. There's an opportunity for the party that can figure it out and get their pants on and get ready for the bus. But nobody has blown it. This is a really interesting, really complex election. It could be Danielle Smith's. It could be Rachel Notley's. I ultimately think what makes this one so interesting is the winner will be the one who's better at strategy. And that's not always the case, right? I mean, sometimes it's just so clearly outside of the control of the strategists or the strategists are fighting an uphill battle this one is going to come down to who runs a better election i mean
Corey
52:20
mean that's why strategy matters so much at this moment to both parts especially
Carter
52:23
especially if you're thinking about you know if our 44 43 kind of most likely outcome isn't is even close to correct um if that's the case then each one of these strategic decisions i mean most people aren't going to make up their minds until like the day before the election there's nothing that's all lost but you
Carter
52:42
get get into a pattern of bad decision making and you can't get out of it and and we've seen that time and time again where the decisions that you're making um can
Carter
52:52
can curtail you and constrain you because you start making the you don't have the right decision making pattern and that decision making pattern uh if you're going to change it it needs to be made you know there is a strategic choice to change your decision making project pattern and it needs discipline and i think that that that would be the message today for the ndp it is time to be to implement a disciplined campaign 90 days left that's it nine zero and this is all over there is no more time to be fucking about and
Annalise
53:24
and and you're saying most expensive summer ever does not fit in with that message discipline you
Carter
53:30
know i'm really glad you brought that back up annalise because i'd almost forgotten it and uh now
Carter
53:35
now it's back in my head thank you yeah
Corey
53:37
yeah like um you know really who is that for like it's a reference to like a comment that was made that's pretty inside ball well
Corey
53:46
and it's it has no resonance it's
Annalise
53:53
okay let's wrap that one up and uh are we done well
Annalise
53:57
well yeah i'm gonna move into the lightning round unless you have like unless you have any big you know final budget super super smart insights there there carter no
Carter
54:07
no my back's a little sore and i wouldn't actually mind doing some stretching because as you know i'm like old so very
Corey
54:17
and wise today you're wise at least old and wise oh my god wow fuck
Corey
54:21
fuck you okay uh
Annalise
54:25
okay let's move into the lightning round um
Annalise
54:28
lightning round okay um i guess we
Carter
54:33
do this every week you i know
Annalise
54:34
know we do it every week we've only talked about budget okay quick um quick lightning round budget question which is we talked about for the last 54 minutes big spending budget with no like shiny headline of that big thing let's
Annalise
54:51
let's say you're doing strategy you're in charge what is that shiny big thing that you would have put in this budget that has everyone talking tomorrow carter
Annalise
55:00
carter what's your big big thing i
Carter
55:02
think for me it would be uh transit i would i would probably double down on uh building the uh the green line north making sure that it goes across the river and making sure that it serves uh the 800 000 people in northwest calgary um that are probably going to be the most likely ones to vote for the ucp uh if they're going to stay with the use you know like those are the the seats that that danielle needs to hold if she's going to be uh successful so that's that would be the big promise that i'd be making there okay
Annalise
55:34
okay cory what's your big thing uh
Corey
55:38
uh i would stay with the tried tested and true tax
Corey
55:42
tax cut for everybody oh i think what's missing from this is putting some money back in people's pockets would would also address affordability i mean not in any kind of sensible way but it would address affordability as a concern that people have out there did
Annalise
55:55
did danny dollars not try and do that but that's 100 dollars
Carter
55:59
dollars yeah don't don't do that yeah so
Annalise
56:04
um okay next lightning round question let's talk about tiktok the fat i know i know carter you're a big tiktok guy right i
Carter
56:12
spent 17 hours on tiktok today it was fantastic
Corey
56:17
yeah again we're gonna release your for you page if we hit our stretch goals on patreon corey
Annalise
56:22
corey i think when you pitched that it was actually on a patreon episode i don't know if the general audience has heard about this so this is actually a really good opportunity to get some new maybe we should just not bring it up that's a yeah that was not a great strategy
Annalise
56:35
of mine actually we call we call them patrons patrons
Annalise
56:42
who are on patreon okay yeah
Corey
56:45
stretch goal if we get to you know i couldn't remember what it was whatever it was we'll
Corey
56:49
we'll just do that you know what if we get one new patron tonight then
Annalise
56:55
what are we doing if we get one new one we'll
Corey
56:58
we'll release one the first video that comes up on steve no no
Annalise
57:03
don't even want that okay and
Annalise
57:05
and i think i think it was like if we got a hundred new ones then we would just live stream live stream
Annalise
57:12
you just have like a live show where you just live stream carter's for you page this is a really
Corey
57:16
idea guys and also with like next to him like a live reaction shot of him watching us watch his for you page a
Annalise
57:23
a hundred new patrons and
Annalise
57:25
and that's what's happening in like a month there you go 100 new ones in a month yeah
Corey
57:30
seems doable an election's coming that's actually pretty probable i think but and
Annalise
57:34
and then have this side by side uh
Annalise
57:37
uh shot okay so on tiktok the feds are banning it from all government issued mobile devices due to privacy and security risks um this was announced yesterday polyev was quick to suspend his account which had like over 200 000 followers i believe correct me if i'm wrong carter because you're the tiktok expert here i think jagmeet singh did the same today and he had like a big presence like almost a million followers yeah
Annalise
58:05
this is a big
Annalise
58:08
yeah it's a big deal well
Annalise
58:09
well so my lightning round question here is like if you're advising politicians
Annalise
58:17
politicians with big followings who are trying to reach young people on tiktok because there's a lot of young people on tiktok and then there's steven carter um what what's watching
Annalise
58:28
what shut up what's
Annalise
58:31
what's your like what's your advice do you do
Annalise
58:34
do you jump on the yeah i'm gonna instantly suspend my account or do you wait this out like Like, what should people do here, Corey?
Corey
58:42
So I think what Pierre Polyev did was brilliant. Because his TikTok following wasn't huge by the standards of TikTok following. But him doing it forced a lot of people off of TikTok, including, it sounds like Jagmeet Singh. I hadn't actually
Carter
58:56
actually heard that he was suspending his as well.
Corey
58:59
They say, you know, it's Sun Tzu, Art of War, all warfare is based on asymmetry. This is a perfect example. And this is so smart. Because he gave up very little. TikTok's not his audience and he forced his opponents to give up a lot a lot of equity they had built on TikTok because if they had not they all of a sudden would be accused of not taking you know security seriously you know Canada's defense and if you're Jagmeet Singh you're also taking yourself out of the game for a lot of this conversation about Chinese spies and Chinese influence in Canada too by continuing to do stupid little videos which have a big audience and maybe even help you but are now now not available to you as a tactic carter
Annalise
59:38
carter did they help him i think that
Carter
59:42
that i think that uh i agree with cory uh pierre's move was quick decisive and and impactful uh i think that he he made the absolute right decision um but
Carter
59:54
but i don't believe there's been a final chapter written on whether or not tiktok actually drives any votes uh we talked before four about Jagmeet Singh's uh significant uh following on on TikTok but it certainly didn't help him actually win seats so you know I think that the I'm
Carter
1:00:14
I'm not sure that Singh's losing as much as he may be losing but I still can't take any uh you
Carter
1:00:22
you know anything out of Pierre Polyev's move it was the absolute right move at the end really good timing and I don't think this is the end of this i think we're going to be talking about tiktok and its security issues uh for some time i know i'm probably a security threat right now um across
Carter
1:00:38
across the country because i follow a lot of people
Annalise
1:00:43
is why we're gonna live stream here for you page i
Corey
1:00:47
have so many questions okay
Annalise
1:00:49
okay we're gonna leave it there that's a wrap on episode 1039 of the strategist My name is Annalise Klingbeil and with you as always, Stephen Carter and Corey Hogan.